From time to time there is discussion on Commons regarding the copyright
status of radiological images. As no one has any idea if they are copyrightable and on the off chance they are, no one has any idea who would owns the copyright, there is varying degrees of support to delete images. (possibilities for ownership include, Xray tech, patient, ordering physician, radiologist, employer which could be the hospital, health region, government)
So there are 10s of thousands of these images. They are of great educational importance. Having Commons delete them all would be a shame. Are we going to go with a copyright interpretation different than that of the rest of the publishing industry, which allow both physicians and patients to publish images? From what I remember from American law it is frowned upon to have a lawsuit just to determine a legal interpretation.
DIscussion regarding one image is here, however there have been a bunch of others before this. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Computed_t... If we go with a strict interpretation the only radiological images that would be usable is those created by VA hospitals (maybe).
IANAL, but my interpretation would be that X-rays are not copyrightable, since they are not creative works, period. Unlike non-X-ray photographs, they (at least, the ones we care abot -- I'm sure some artists have fooled around with X-rays as well) are always made specifically and explicitly for healthcare or research reasons, never with creative intent, and they would be substantially the same regardless of the identity of the machinery operator.
But then, I'm a copyright minimalist. :)
A.
On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 2:12 PM, James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com wrote:
From time to time there is discussion on Commons regarding the copyright status of radiological images. As no one has any idea if they are copyrightable and on the off chance they are, no one has any idea who would owns the copyright, there is varying degrees of support to delete images. (possibilities for ownership include, Xray tech, patient, ordering physician, radiologist, employer which could be the hospital, health region, government)
So there are 10s of thousands of these images. They are of great educational importance. Having Commons delete them all would be a shame. Are we going to go with a copyright interpretation different than that of the rest of the publishing industry, which allow both physicians and patients to publish images? From what I remember from American law it is frowned upon to have a lawsuit just to determine a legal interpretation.
DIscussion regarding one image is here, however there have been a bunch of others before this.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Computed_t... If we go with a strict interpretation the only radiological images that would be usable is those created by VA hospitals (maybe).
-- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine www.opentextbookofmedicine.com _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
I think this would be an excellent time for the Foundation to use those attorneys they have to render a real legal opinion as to whether this is clear or not, safe or not, etc. ...
On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 7:02 PM, Asaf Bartov abartov@wikimedia.org wrote:
IANAL, but my interpretation would be that X-rays are not copyrightable, since they are not creative works, period. Unlike non-X-ray photographs, they (at least, the ones we care abot -- I'm sure some artists have fooled around with X-rays as well) are always made specifically and explicitly for healthcare or research reasons, never with creative intent, and they would be substantially the same regardless of the identity of the machinery operator.
But then, I'm a copyright minimalist. :)
A.
On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 2:12 PM, James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com wrote:
From time to time there is discussion on Commons regarding the copyright status of radiological images. As no one has any idea if they are copyrightable and on the off chance they are, no one has any idea who
would
owns the copyright, there is varying degrees of support to delete images. (possibilities for ownership include, Xray tech, patient, ordering physician, radiologist, employer which could be the hospital, health region, government)
So there are 10s of thousands of these images. They are of great educational importance. Having Commons delete them all would be a shame. Are we going to go with a copyright interpretation different than that of the rest of the publishing industry, which allow both physicians and patients to publish images? From what I remember from American law it is frowned upon to have a lawsuit just to determine a legal interpretation.
DIscussion regarding one image is here, however there have been a bunch
of
others before this.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Computed_t...
If we go with a strict interpretation the only radiological images that
would
be usable is those created by VA hospitals (maybe).
-- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine www.opentextbookofmedicine.com _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
-- Asaf Bartov Wikimedia Foundation http://www.wikimediafoundation.org
Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality! https://donate.wikimedia.org _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 7:07 PM, George Herbert george.herbert@gmail.com wrote:
I think this would be an excellent time for the Foundation to use those attorneys they have to render a real legal opinion as to whether this is clear or not, safe or not, etc. ...
This somewhat predates me, so I can't answer questions on it, but we did a basic legal analysis on this topic a year ago: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikilegal/Copyright_of_X-Ray_Images
Luis
On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 2:12 PM, James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com wrote:
From time to time there is discussion on Commons regarding the copyright status of radiological images. As no one has any idea if they are copyrightable and on the off chance they are, no one has any idea who
would
owns the copyright, there is varying degrees of support to delete images. (possibilities for ownership include, Xray tech, patient, ordering physician, radiologist, employer which could be the hospital, health region, government)
So there are 10s of thousands of these images. They are of great educational importance. Having Commons delete them all would be a shame. Are we going to go with a copyright interpretation different than that of the rest of the publishing industry, which allow both physicians and patients to publish images? From what I remember from American law it is frowned upon to have a lawsuit just to determine a legal interpretation.
DIscussion regarding one image is here, however there have been a bunch
of
others before this.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Computed_t...
If we go with a strict interpretation the only radiological images that
would
be usable is those created by VA hospitals (maybe).
On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 4:02 AM, Asaf Bartov abartov@wikimedia.org wrote:
IANAL, but my interpretation would be that X-rays are not copyrightable, since they are not creative works, period.
Note that e.g. in the Czech Republic, “[a] photograph or a work produced by a process similar to photography” has lower threshold on originality/creativity; it is protected “if it is original in the sense that it is the author’s own intellectual creation” (while a work of another types needs to be “a unique outcome of the creative activity of the author”). And this is language from the European Copyright Duration Directive (Article 6: “Photographs which are original in the sense that they are the author's own intellectual creation shall be protected in accordance with Article 1. No other criteria shall be applied to determine their eligibility for protection.”), so other EU countries probably have similar legal constructions.
It might be debatable whether medical X-ray images are, in fact, “photographs or works produced by a process similar to photography” (while “traditional” X-ray images probably are, I would argue CT pictures are not), and whether they are “the author’s own intellectual creation” at all.
-- [[cs:User:Mormegil | Petr Kadlec]]
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