I'm more interested in the numbers for the WMF as a whole. One CEO does not make an emissions problem, and in a global-reaching organization I'd hope that the CEO would be flying around a bit. Focusing on the ten or so executives at the Foundation seems like a sensational approach rather than a useful one. Adrian On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 9:24 AM Fæ &lt;faewik(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

Surely it doesn't really matter who within the organisation is racking up the CO2? More important is the fact that the Foundation acknowleges itself responsible for about 2,000 tonnes of CO2 emission. At an offset price around $100/tonne, presumably we may expect that as an interim measure, WMF will purchase $200K worth of offsets -- an eminently affordable sum on its current budget. Henry On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 14:28, Adrian Raddatz &lt;ajraddatz(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: not than urgency. https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-the-35-year-old-executive-director-of-wiki… https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

On 25 Sep 2019, at 08:13, Gerard Meijssen &lt;gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: Hoi, For me this is a negative approach, it is all about costs and there is no consideration of benefits. When you consider a conference with over 100 people, you CANNOT replace it by digital means. You will not have the conversations made possible by being there in person and getting to meet other people learn to know them, appreciate them, respect them. Thanks, GerardM

Did you see the sustainability report that was published yesterday [1] [2]? Page 30 of the PDF has some numbers on business travel by air – some 5.6 million km in total, by the looks of it. Page 32 also shows that the carbon footprint of air travel is about half that of the electricity used by the Foundation’s data centers. Cheers, Lucas [1]: https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2019/09/19/how-the-wikimedia-foundatio… [2]: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikimedia_Foundation_Sustainability… On 20.09.19 15:23, Fæ wrote: https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-the-35-year-old-executive-director-of-wiki… _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

Because # of flights is not a useful metric for assessing environmental impact. Seddon On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 3:23 PM Fæ &lt;faewik(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > Those publications are where my numbers came from. There is no useful > transparency to explain how many actual flights are taken, why or by whom. > > Fae > > On Fri, 20 Sep 2019, 15:17 Lucas Werkmeister, &lt;mail(a)lucaswerkmeister.de&gt; > wrote: > > > Did you see the sustainability report that was published yesterday [1] > > [2]? Page 30 of the PDF has some numbers on business travel by air – > > some 5.6 million km in total, by the looks of it. Page 32 also shows > > that the carbon footprint of air travel is about half that of the > > electricity used by the Foundation’s data centers. > > > > Cheers, > > Lucas > > > > [1]: > > > > > https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2019/09/19/how-the-wikimedia-foundatio… > > [2]: > > > > > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikimedia_Foundation_Sustainability… > > > > On 20.09.19 15:23, Fæ wrote: > > > Nice to see that https://wikimediafoundation.org has a banner linking > > > to the global climate strike today. > > > > > > Can anyone produce some verifiable metrics that the WMF has taken > > > significant action to reduce the total number of aircraft flights the > > > WMF uses? > > > > > > I am asking as though there are no transparently published figures for > > > how much the WMF spends on air travel, I recall that the Katherine > > > Mahler was interviewed by the Wall Street Journal, where is was part > > > of her impressive executive profile to be "on the road" for 200 days > > > of the year. This probably puts Katherine in the very top numbers for > > > CEOs with damaging carbon footprints resulting from travelling so > > > often by flying.[1] If the WMF wants to be seen as an ethical company > > > when it comes to reducing their organizational impact on climate > > > change, perhaps this could start with publishing travel figures for > > > the CEO and the rest of the management team, so that everyone can see > > > whether there is year on year improvement, or none. > > > > > > Thanks again for the banner, it does help increase the sense of > urgency. > > > > > > Links: > > > 1. > > > https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-the-35-year-old-executive-director-of-wiki… > > > > > > Fae > > >

I think we could drastically lower our carbon footprint by not using community digital resources to beat the same dead horse for a billionth time.

Anyways this is perceived by the community. In Wikimedia CH we cannot give scholarships for Wikimania because people would not do long trips. IMHO the problem is these big events. For this reason we prefer to give more scholarships for regional wikicon than to Wikimania. This is the reason why you dont see more Swiss people at Wikimania. Kind regards On Sat, 21 Sep 2019, 00:51 Samuel Klein, &lt;meta.sj(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: Now, _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

Yes We dont give all scholarships for that reason while for regional Wikicon we receive more requests and we fill the amount immediately. It's not an opinion that in our events people prefer to arrive by train and not by flight. We see it as soon we receive the expenses report and when we ask the reason the answer is the climate change. Kind regards On Mon, 23 Sep 2019, 13:25 Gabriel Thullen, &lt;gabriel(a)thullen.com&gt; wrote: of people wikicon using has Long by https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

Is it, perhaps, that the value a lot of people derive from these events is not just the conference itself, but the ability to meet fellow Wikimedians face-to-face and make meaningful contacts and even friendships that may never otherwise have come about? I'm all about virtual, but there is value in physical events, and I would say that we should make time and space for both. On Mon, 23 Sep 2019 at 12:54, Ilario Valdelli &lt;valdelli(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: -- PhD in Digital Media Project Coordinator Wikimedia Community Ireland <http://wikimedia.ie> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

Hello, I totally support Illario words: "if the option is to pay 500 long travels for scholarships by flight to attend a single event or to pay 500 travels for the staff of WMF to attend several regional conferences, the answer will be in favor of the second option which is more sustainable and more efficient." and what Fae and others have been saying all along. It makes much more sense to restrict global meetings and events to the minimum essential, and support instead regional events, which are way more cheaper, democratic, sustainable (in all ways) and have a much less significant carbon footprint. By inviting Wikimedians from nearby countries, WMF staff and very selected international scholarships we can still be able to provide great "flesh-and-bones" interaction, and can eventually coordinate with other groups of Wikimedians from any part of the world through videoconferencing. In this last Wikimania in Stockholm, I was actually able to successfully participate remotely in a panel there, along with 2 other remote fellows (me in Madeira Island, one in Israel and another in Mexico): https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2019:Education/Education_%26_Libraries… Of course, presential attendance and interaction is still crucial, as we (generally) are not hermits editing from caves, and it has a fundamental effect in local community capacity and structure building, but that can be done at a regional (rather than national, as travel costs and footprint do not respect national boundaries) level. For those reasons, I believe there should be a strong strategic focus on funding regional conferences in the Wikimedia Movement, and was somewhat disappointed when the organizing teams at Wikimania 2019 and the last Wiki Education conference at the Basque country apparently had not also focused on this regional approach (if it existed, it either was not explicit, or I couldn't find it), with a weighting factor on scholarships related to the proximity/vicinity of attendants. I agree that it is very cool to be immersed in a sea of diversity and cultural interchange at Wikimedia events, with people coming from all parts of the world, but that is not sustainable, and as has been mentioned, that group of attendants is not necessarily representative of the active Wikimedian communities. More regional events, building up a strong regional Wikimedia structure, and limiting global events to the very essential, is the way to go IMO. Best, Paulo Fæ &lt;faewik(a)gmail.com&gt; escreveu no dia segunda, 23/09/2019 à(s) 13:10: cover https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_CH/Policies/Scholarships valdelli(a)gmail.com&gt; Wikimania. not the ?subject=unsubscribe> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

Is it, perhaps, that the value a lot of people derive from these events is not just the conference itself, but the ability to meet fellow Wikimedians face-to-face and make meaningful contacts and even friendships that may never otherwise have come about? I'm all about virtual, but there is value in physical events, and I would say that we should make time and space for both. On Mon, 23 Sep 2019 at 12:54, Ilario Valdelli &lt;valdelli(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:

We used to regularly raise the issue of a lack of active videoconferencing at Wikimania. Though we (Wikimedians) are highly technically literate, we still do not host virtual attendees, such as 3D virtual conferencing and claim it a win if we release video streams of some of the presentations. Both to reduce our community's carbon footprint, and to encourage access for those that find air travel challenging or impossible, it would be great to see the Wikimedia Foundation being active in trialing and funding virtual environments for our events. 25 years ago I worked for a global bank and had regular virtual meetings in a video room where you physically sat at a conference table where the other half telemagically was in other headquarters in other cities with shared (physical) whiteboards to help workshopping. These days it's relatively easy to videoconference, but we should do more to experiment with whether booking video suites in different cities might also be a good way of encouraging Wikimedians to default to local travel and still be active in our multi-national or global events and workshops. At the end of the day, paying a few hundred dollars for several conference suites or higher end conference kit hire hosted by local Wikimedia Chapters, is a fraction the cost of paying for a far smaller number of lucky applicants to get their flights and accommodation paid for. This type of high quality conferencing initiative would perfectly fit the non-specific high level aims mentioned in the WMF sustainability documents. It's weird to me that this is still a debate, and folks are defending continued air travel at the current consumption levels, rather than even trialling all the virtual alternatives. Fae On Mon, 23 Sep 2019 at 12:14, Ilario Valdelli &lt;valdelli(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

I am profoundly disappointed that WMF employees don't value the mission. Instead they seem to simply follow fashion and force users and volunteers to follow their fashionable methods of advocacy. They use their monopoly power to deny free access to the world's knowledge that many thousands of volunteers have diligently assembled. This time it is to show solidarity with environmental advocates. What will it be next time? On Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 15:35 Pine W &lt;wiki.pine(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: a trying https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2019-September/093519.html impacts is few WMF _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

As far as I can tell, only the Foundation wiki is showing the strike message. That particular one is pretty much theirs to do as they like with. If they started doing that to any other wikis without their agreement, well, then we'd have a problem. But so long as it's only the WMF wiki itself, I don't see the issue. Todd On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 6:45 PM Dennis During &lt;dcduring(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: put of events https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2019-September/093519.html that impacts morale practicing similar and public regrettably it _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

Hi, Does anyone have a screenshot of the page with this banner? Or a link to an online archive? Or at least the banner itself? sasha. On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 9:54 PM Dennis During &lt;dcduring(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > > I couldn't get onto WP or en.wikt shortly after I had heard about the MW > participation in the strike. I jumped to an apparently wrong conclusion. > Sorry. > > I am glad that the availability of free knowledge for all was not disrupted. > > On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 3:19 AM Todd Allen &lt;toddmallen(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > > > As far as I can tell, only the Foundation wiki is showing the strike > > message. That particular one is pretty much theirs to do as they like with. > > > > If they started doing that to any other wikis without their agreement, > > well, then we'd have a problem. But so long as it's only the WMF wiki > > itself, I don't see the issue. > > > > Todd > > > > On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 6:45 PM Dennis During &lt;dcduring(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > > > > > I am profoundly disappointed that WMF employees don't value the mission. > > > Instead they seem to simply follow fashion and force users and volunteers > > > to follow their fashionable methods of advocacy. They use their monopoly > > > power to deny free access to the world's knowledge that many thousands of > > > volunteers have diligently assembled. This time it is to show solidarity > > > with environmental advocates. What will it be next time? > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 15:35 Pine W &lt;wiki.pine(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > > > > > > > I have a few comments. > > > > > > > > While I appreciate the sentiment, I wouldn't have put the > > > > wikimediafoundation.org domain "on strike", just as I wouldn't have > > put > > > a > > > > government agency's website "on strike". I think that some discussion > > of > > > > climate change would be fine, but I think that WMF's action here is > > > > somewhat strange. > > > > > > > > I think that asking about the climate impact of staff travel is fine. > > > > However, I would also include questions about travel for Wikimedia > > events > > > > more broadly. I believe that the WMF Board has indicated support for > > > trying > > > > to reduce the Wikiverse's contributions to climate change. As has been > > > > mentioned in this thread, WMF released a report yesterday > > > > < > > > > > > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2019-September/093519.html > > > > > > > > > on the subject of sustainability. While I have not read it, I think > > that > > > > measuring and attempting to reduce reduce negative environmental > > impacts > > > > from Wikimedia activities is good, including negative environmental > > > impacts > > > > from travel. However, I also think that there are some benefits to > > morale > > > > and communications from in person meetings, so I would be reluctant to > > > > eliminate travel and conferences entirely. > > > > > > > > I think that it's fine to ask whether WMF senior management is > > practicing > > > > what they preach. However, Fae, I feel that your tone in this thread is > > > > excessively harsh on this point. I think that you could ask very > > similar > > > > questions with a tone that is calmer. > > > > > > > > On the subject of environmental sustainability, my main concern at this > > > > time is the banner on the WMF website which I feel is somewhat weird > > and > > > is > > > > inconsistent with WMF's goal of being "essential infrastructure". Do we > > > > want "essential infrastructure" to go on strike, particularly when that > > > > infrastructure is supposed to be for an organization that provides > > public > > > > service and supports the community in publishing reliable scientific > > > > information? I think not. However, I think that the banner is > > regrettably > > > > consistent with the series of surprising decisions from WMF in the past > > > few > > > > months. That is, to me, the most concerning element in all of this. If > > > WMF > > > > wants to be a public service infrastructure provider then I think that > > it > > > > should act like one. > > > > > > > > Pine > > > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine ) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > -- > Dennis C. During

Does anyone know whether the screen allowed a user to click through? On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 1:25 PM Fæ &lt;faewik(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:WMF_global_climate_strike_banner_20… strike wiki here support https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2019-September/093519.html environmental very ?subject=unsubscribe> -- Dennis C. During _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>