Nice to see that https://wikimediafoundation.org has a banner linking to the global climate strike today.
Can anyone produce some verifiable metrics that the WMF has taken significant action to reduce the total number of aircraft flights the WMF uses?
I am asking as though there are no transparently published figures for how much the WMF spends on air travel, I recall that the Katherine Mahler was interviewed by the Wall Street Journal, where is was part of her impressive executive profile to be "on the road" for 200 days of the year. This probably puts Katherine in the very top numbers for CEOs with damaging carbon footprints resulting from travelling so often by flying.[1] If the WMF wants to be seen as an ethical company when it comes to reducing their organizational impact on climate change, perhaps this could start with publishing travel figures for the CEO and the rest of the management team, so that everyone can see whether there is year on year improvement, or none.
Thanks again for the banner, it does help increase the sense of urgency.
Links: 1. https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-the-35-year-old-executive-director-of-wikim...
Fae
I'm more interested in the numbers for the WMF as a whole. One CEO does not make an emissions problem, and in a global-reaching organization I'd hope that the CEO would be flying around a bit. Focusing on the ten or so executives at the Foundation seems like a sensational approach rather than a useful one.
Adrian
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 9:24 AM Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote:
Nice to see that https://wikimediafoundation.org has a banner linking to the global climate strike today.
Can anyone produce some verifiable metrics that the WMF has taken significant action to reduce the total number of aircraft flights the WMF uses?
I am asking as though there are no transparently published figures for how much the WMF spends on air travel, I recall that the Katherine Mahler was interviewed by the Wall Street Journal, where is was part of her impressive executive profile to be "on the road" for 200 days of the year. This probably puts Katherine in the very top numbers for CEOs with damaging carbon footprints resulting from travelling so often by flying.[1] If the WMF wants to be seen as an ethical company when it comes to reducing their organizational impact on climate change, perhaps this could start with publishing travel figures for the CEO and the rest of the management team, so that everyone can see whether there is year on year improvement, or none.
Thanks again for the banner, it does help increase the sense of urgency.
Links:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-the-35-year-old-executive-director-of-wikim...
Fae
faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Except, that's probably not statistically true.
If the management team is responsible for 50% of air travel, then the figures from the environmental impact survey indicate that amounts to 15% of the entire contribution to CO2 emissions for the WMF. However you reframe or spin the WSJ article, the CEO spending 200 days on the road last year, rather than, say, cutting that number in half by using the telephone or other virtual conferencing technology, must be a significant factor in those numbers.
The contribution actually is higher than that, as the impact made from the published impact from WMF use of hotels, probably pushes that 15% figure to over 20%.
It's simple maths, not rocket science. Of course if real firm figures about air travel by the management team were published by the WMF, rather than estimates, we could start calculating the impact of specific year on year improvement, rather than relying on high level statements about the aims for the current year and end of year "good news" selective summaries of how well everyone has done. Facts and measurable commitments would be super useful, rather than sensationalism, as you agree.
Thanks Fae
On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 14:28, Adrian Raddatz ajraddatz@gmail.com wrote:
I'm more interested in the numbers for the WMF as a whole. One CEO does not make an emissions problem, and in a global-reaching organization I'd hope that the CEO would be flying around a bit. Focusing on the ten or so executives at the Foundation seems like a sensational approach rather than a useful one.
Adrian
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 9:24 AM Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote:
Nice to see that https://wikimediafoundation.org has a banner linking to the global climate strike today.
Can anyone produce some verifiable metrics that the WMF has taken significant action to reduce the total number of aircraft flights the WMF uses?
I am asking as though there are no transparently published figures for how much the WMF spends on air travel, I recall that the Katherine Mahler was interviewed by the Wall Street Journal, where is was part of her impressive executive profile to be "on the road" for 200 days of the year. This probably puts Katherine in the very top numbers for CEOs with damaging carbon footprints resulting from travelling so often by flying.[1] If the WMF wants to be seen as an ethical company when it comes to reducing their organizational impact on climate change, perhaps this could start with publishing travel figures for the CEO and the rest of the management team, so that everyone can see whether there is year on year improvement, or none.
Thanks again for the banner, it does help increase the sense of urgency.
Links:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-the-35-year-old-executive-director-of-wikim...
Fae
faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote.
It would be more meaningful to derive a net value to the world ecosystem due to such travel, but that is not easily amenable to calculation. However it is probably more positive than your regular punter's vacation in the Caribbean. Cheers, Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Fæ Sent: 20 September 2019 15:47 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation joins the global climate strike
Except, that's probably not statistically true.
If the management team is responsible for 50% of air travel, then the figures from the environmental impact survey indicate that amounts to 15% of the entire contribution to CO2 emissions for the WMF. However you reframe or spin the WSJ article, the CEO spending 200 days on the road last year, rather than, say, cutting that number in half by using the telephone or other virtual conferencing technology, must be a significant factor in those numbers.
The contribution actually is higher than that, as the impact made from the published impact from WMF use of hotels, probably pushes that 15% figure to over 20%.
It's simple maths, not rocket science. Of course if real firm figures about air travel by the management team were published by the WMF, rather than estimates, we could start calculating the impact of specific year on year improvement, rather than relying on high level statements about the aims for the current year and end of year "good news" selective summaries of how well everyone has done. Facts and measurable commitments would be super useful, rather than sensationalism, as you agree.
Thanks Fae
On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 14:28, Adrian Raddatz ajraddatz@gmail.com wrote:
I'm more interested in the numbers for the WMF as a whole. One CEO does not make an emissions problem, and in a global-reaching organization I'd hope that the CEO would be flying around a bit. Focusing on the ten or so executives at the Foundation seems like a sensational approach rather than a useful one.
Adrian
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 9:24 AM Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote:
Nice to see that https://wikimediafoundation.org has a banner linking to the global climate strike today.
Can anyone produce some verifiable metrics that the WMF has taken significant action to reduce the total number of aircraft flights the WMF uses?
I am asking as though there are no transparently published figures for how much the WMF spends on air travel, I recall that the Katherine Mahler was interviewed by the Wall Street Journal, where is was part of her impressive executive profile to be "on the road" for 200 days of the year. This probably puts Katherine in the very top numbers for CEOs with damaging carbon footprints resulting from travelling so often by flying.[1] If the WMF wants to be seen as an ethical company when it comes to reducing their organizational impact on climate change, perhaps this could start with publishing travel figures for the CEO and the rest of the management team, so that everyone can see whether there is year on year improvement, or none.
Thanks again for the banner, it does help increase the sense of urgency.
Links:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-the-35-year-old-executive-director-of-wikim...
Fae
faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote.
Surely it doesn't really matter who within the organisation is racking up the CO2? More important is the fact that the Foundation acknowleges itself responsible for about 2,000 tonnes of CO2 emission. At an offset price around $100/tonne, presumably we may expect that as an interim measure, WMF will purchase $200K worth of offsets -- an eminently affordable sum on its current budget.
Henry
On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 14:28, Adrian Raddatz ajraddatz@gmail.com wrote:
I'm more interested in the numbers for the WMF as a whole. One CEO does not make an emissions problem, and in a global-reaching organization I'd hope that the CEO would be flying around a bit. Focusing on the ten or so executives at the Foundation seems like a sensational approach rather than a useful one.
Adrian
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 9:24 AM Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote:
Nice to see that https://wikimediafoundation.org has a banner linking to the global climate strike today.
Can anyone produce some verifiable metrics that the WMF has taken significant action to reduce the total number of aircraft flights the WMF uses?
I am asking as though there are no transparently published figures for how much the WMF spends on air travel, I recall that the Katherine Mahler was interviewed by the Wall Street Journal, where is was part of her impressive executive profile to be "on the road" for 200 days of the year. This probably puts Katherine in the very top numbers for CEOs with damaging carbon footprints resulting from travelling so often by flying.[1] If the WMF wants to be seen as an ethical company when it comes to reducing their organizational impact on climate change, perhaps this could start with publishing travel figures for the CEO and the rest of the management team, so that everyone can see whether there is year on year improvement, or none.
Thanks again for the banner, it does help increase the sense of urgency.
Links:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-the-35-year-old-executive-director-of-wikim...
Fae
faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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In fact, there are countless offset projects in the $1-$15/tonne range, as well: https://offset.climateneutralnow.org/allprojects
The total offsetting budget would not need to be too enourmous, yet it could be impactful.
Best regards, Bence
On Mon, 23 Sep 2019, 18:28 Henry Wood, henry.wood.1869@gmail.com wrote:
Surely it doesn't really matter who within the organisation is racking up the CO2? More important is the fact that the Foundation acknowleges itself responsible for about 2,000 tonnes of CO2 emission. At an offset price around $100/tonne, presumably we may expect that as an interim measure, WMF will purchase $200K worth of offsets -- an eminently affordable sum on its current budget.
Henry
On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 14:28, Adrian Raddatz ajraddatz@gmail.com wrote:
I'm more interested in the numbers for the WMF as a whole. One CEO does
not
make an emissions problem, and in a global-reaching organization I'd hope that the CEO would be flying around a bit. Focusing on the ten or so executives at the Foundation seems like a sensational approach rather
than
a useful one.
Adrian
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 9:24 AM Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote:
Nice to see that https://wikimediafoundation.org has a banner linking to the global climate strike today.
Can anyone produce some verifiable metrics that the WMF has taken significant action to reduce the total number of aircraft flights the WMF uses?
I am asking as though there are no transparently published figures for how much the WMF spends on air travel, I recall that the Katherine Mahler was interviewed by the Wall Street Journal, where is was part of her impressive executive profile to be "on the road" for 200 days of the year. This probably puts Katherine in the very top numbers for CEOs with damaging carbon footprints resulting from travelling so often by flying.[1] If the WMF wants to be seen as an ethical company when it comes to reducing their organizational impact on climate change, perhaps this could start with publishing travel figures for the CEO and the rest of the management team, so that everyone can see whether there is year on year improvement, or none.
Thanks again for the banner, it does help increase the sense of
urgency.
Links:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-the-35-year-old-executive-director-of-wikim...
Fae
faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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On 23/09/2019 18:41, Bence Damokos wrote:
In fact, there are countless offset projects in the $1-$15/tonne range, as well:https://offset.climateneutralnow.org/allprojects
The total offsetting budget would not need to be too enourmous, yet it could be impactful.
Best regards, Bence
Hello Bence,
Very nice, thank you to have shared the link.
I have picked a project in Malawi to replace cooking fires with a fuel efficient stove:
https://offset.climateneutralnow.org/improved-cook-stove-project-1-nkhata-ba...
There are even progress reports: https://cdm.unfccc.int/Projects/DB/TUEV-SUED1397540352.85/view
If I got it right, they have 38 000 tonnes per year at $8.50 for a total of $323 000.
Given the foundation emitted 2100 tonnes in a year, that would cover 18 years of emission! For an extra few thousands we could probably have a Wikipedia sticker on the stoves to raise awareness ;-]
In short, I am a bit amazed at how "cheap" it is to offset a tonne of CO2 as well as how "little" the foundation generates.
Hi,
I'm glad that this conversation is going in a positive direction.
I have spent the last several days contemplating that after the events of this summer, if I see WMF in any way associated with a surprise, I get a stress headache and wonder what new problem has started. If I had a more positive view of WMF, while I wouldn't have sent the WMF site "on strike" in the way that WMF did it, I'd probably have bypassed this issue and moved on to something else.
I'd like to suggest that going forward we change the title of this thread to something like "Wikimedia travel, environmental costs, and financial costs" to reflect the broader scope of this discussion,
Hoi, For me this is a negative approach, it is all about costs and there is no consideration of benefits. When you consider a conference with over 100 people, you CANNOT replace it by digital means. You will not have the conversations made possible by being there in person and getting to meet other people learn to know them, appreciate them, respect them. Thanks, GerardM
On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 at 07:58, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
I'm glad that this conversation is going in a positive direction.
I have spent the last several days contemplating that after the events of this summer, if I see WMF in any way associated with a surprise, I get a stress headache and wonder what new problem has started. If I had a more positive view of WMF, while I wouldn't have sent the WMF site "on strike" in the way that WMF did it, I'd probably have bypassed this issue and moved on to something else.
I'd like to suggest that going forward we change the title of this thread to something like "Wikimedia travel, environmental costs, and financial costs" to reflect the broader scope of this discussion,
Pine ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine ) _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Hi Gerard, (and everyone else)
I’m a newbie here and this is my first email - so Wikihello!
Adding to your point, and SJ’s great list of positive things to do:
Yes, it seems that in-person events are necessary. But has anyone questioned constructively this assumption and tried to design a movement that does not depend so much on global events?
I tried to tackle this issue in a thought piece that you might enjoy: https://medium.com/@atarkowski/building-a-sustainable-open-movement-how-do-w... https://medium.com/@atarkowski/building-a-sustainable-open-movement-how-do-we-go-beyond-the-global-events-that-we-love-so-much-c724a4252062
Best, Alek
On 25 Sep 2019, at 08:13, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
Hoi, For me this is a negative approach, it is all about costs and there is no consideration of benefits. When you consider a conference with over 100 people, you CANNOT replace it by digital means. You will not have the conversations made possible by being there in person and getting to meet other people learn to know them, appreciate them, respect them. Thanks, GerardM
— Prezes i Fundator | President and Co-Founder Centrum Cyfrowe | centrumcyfrowe.pl T: +48 889 660 444 @atarkowski + Coordinator, Creative Commons Polska | creativecommons.pl Board Member, Creative Commons | creative commons.org Member, COMMUNIA | communia-association.org
— Informujemy zgodnie z wymogami RODO: Fundacja Centrum Cyfrowe przetwarza Państwa dane (imię i nazwisko, adres e-mail oraz informacje zawarte w treści wiadomości) na podstawie uzasadnionego interesu, w celu obsługi korespondencji, w celach wynikających z treści e-maila lub w celu nawiązania kontaktu w przyszłości.
Did you see the sustainability report that was published yesterday [1] [2]? Page 30 of the PDF has some numbers on business travel by air – some 5.6 million km in total, by the looks of it. Page 32 also shows that the carbon footprint of air travel is about half that of the electricity used by the Foundation’s data centers.
Cheers, Lucas
[1]: https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2019/09/19/how-the-wikimedia-foundation... [2]: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikimedia_Foundation_Sustainability_...
On 20.09.19 15:23, Fæ wrote:
Nice to see that https://wikimediafoundation.org has a banner linking to the global climate strike today.
Can anyone produce some verifiable metrics that the WMF has taken significant action to reduce the total number of aircraft flights the WMF uses?
I am asking as though there are no transparently published figures for how much the WMF spends on air travel, I recall that the Katherine Mahler was interviewed by the Wall Street Journal, where is was part of her impressive executive profile to be "on the road" for 200 days of the year. This probably puts Katherine in the very top numbers for CEOs with damaging carbon footprints resulting from travelling so often by flying.[1] If the WMF wants to be seen as an ethical company when it comes to reducing their organizational impact on climate change, perhaps this could start with publishing travel figures for the CEO and the rest of the management team, so that everyone can see whether there is year on year improvement, or none.
Thanks again for the banner, it does help increase the sense of urgency.
Links:
Fae
Those publications are where my numbers came from. There is no useful transparency to explain how many actual flights are taken, why or by whom.
Fae
On Fri, 20 Sep 2019, 15:17 Lucas Werkmeister, mail@lucaswerkmeister.de wrote:
Did you see the sustainability report that was published yesterday [1] [2]? Page 30 of the PDF has some numbers on business travel by air – some 5.6 million km in total, by the looks of it. Page 32 also shows that the carbon footprint of air travel is about half that of the electricity used by the Foundation’s data centers.
Cheers, Lucas
[1]:
https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2019/09/19/how-the-wikimedia-foundation... [2]:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikimedia_Foundation_Sustainability_...
On 20.09.19 15:23, Fæ wrote:
Nice to see that https://wikimediafoundation.org has a banner linking to the global climate strike today.
Can anyone produce some verifiable metrics that the WMF has taken significant action to reduce the total number of aircraft flights the WMF uses?
I am asking as though there are no transparently published figures for how much the WMF spends on air travel, I recall that the Katherine Mahler was interviewed by the Wall Street Journal, where is was part of her impressive executive profile to be "on the road" for 200 days of the year. This probably puts Katherine in the very top numbers for CEOs with damaging carbon footprints resulting from travelling so often by flying.[1] If the WMF wants to be seen as an ethical company when it comes to reducing their organizational impact on climate change, perhaps this could start with publishing travel figures for the CEO and the rest of the management team, so that everyone can see whether there is year on year improvement, or none.
Thanks again for the banner, it does help increase the sense of urgency.
Links:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-the-35-year-old-executive-director-of-wikim...
Fae
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Because # of flights is not a useful metric for assessing environmental impact.
Seddon
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 3:23 PM Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote:
Those publications are where my numbers came from. There is no useful transparency to explain how many actual flights are taken, why or by whom.
Fae
On Fri, 20 Sep 2019, 15:17 Lucas Werkmeister, mail@lucaswerkmeister.de wrote:
Did you see the sustainability report that was published yesterday [1] [2]? Page 30 of the PDF has some numbers on business travel by air – some 5.6 million km in total, by the looks of it. Page 32 also shows that the carbon footprint of air travel is about half that of the electricity used by the Foundation’s data centers.
Cheers, Lucas
[1]:
https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2019/09/19/how-the-wikimedia-foundation...
[2]:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikimedia_Foundation_Sustainability_...
On 20.09.19 15:23, Fæ wrote:
Nice to see that https://wikimediafoundation.org has a banner linking to the global climate strike today.
Can anyone produce some verifiable metrics that the WMF has taken significant action to reduce the total number of aircraft flights the WMF uses?
I am asking as though there are no transparently published figures for how much the WMF spends on air travel, I recall that the Katherine Mahler was interviewed by the Wall Street Journal, where is was part of her impressive executive profile to be "on the road" for 200 days of the year. This probably puts Katherine in the very top numbers for CEOs with damaging carbon footprints resulting from travelling so often by flying.[1] If the WMF wants to be seen as an ethical company when it comes to reducing their organizational impact on climate change, perhaps this could start with publishing travel figures for the CEO and the rest of the management team, so that everyone can see whether there is year on year improvement, or none.
Thanks again for the banner, it does help increase the sense of
urgency.
Links:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-the-35-year-old-executive-director-of-wikim...
Fae
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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Sure, but it seems more realistic than calculating the CO2 contributions from the management team compared to all the other employees.
At the end of the day, how many flights the executive team take as part of their jobs, and working out whether they are flying less or more in 2019 compared to 2018, is an very simple and useful fact to be open and transparent about. Doing so gives everyone a great incentive to do better.
Considering the WMF is getting ethical gold stars by putting a Climate Change banner over the entirety of its website landing page, it is reasonable to expect that the organization starts by changing itself and turn the non-committal statements in the WMF presentation from "we will consider" and "we will seek" in to a meaningful and measurable "we will act".
Thanks, Fae
On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 17:58, Joseph Seddon josephseddon@gmail.com wrote:
Because # of flights is not a useful metric for assessing environmental impact.
Seddon
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 3:23 PM Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote:
Those publications are where my numbers came from. There is no useful transparency to explain how many actual flights are taken, why or by whom.
Fae
On Fri, 20 Sep 2019, 15:17 Lucas Werkmeister, mail@lucaswerkmeister.de wrote:
Did you see the sustainability report that was published yesterday [1] [2]? Page 30 of the PDF has some numbers on business travel by air – some 5.6 million km in total, by the looks of it. Page 32 also shows that the carbon footprint of air travel is about half that of the electricity used by the Foundation’s data centers.
Cheers, Lucas
[1]:
https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2019/09/19/how-the-wikimedia-foundation...
[2]:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikimedia_Foundation_Sustainability_...
On 20.09.19 15:23, Fæ wrote:
Nice to see that https://wikimediafoundation.org has a banner linking to the global climate strike today.
Can anyone produce some verifiable metrics that the WMF has taken significant action to reduce the total number of aircraft flights the WMF uses?
I am asking as though there are no transparently published figures for how much the WMF spends on air travel, I recall that the Katherine Mahler was interviewed by the Wall Street Journal, where is was part of her impressive executive profile to be "on the road" for 200 days of the year. This probably puts Katherine in the very top numbers for CEOs with damaging carbon footprints resulting from travelling so often by flying.[1] If the WMF wants to be seen as an ethical company when it comes to reducing their organizational impact on climate change, perhaps this could start with publishing travel figures for the CEO and the rest of the management team, so that everyone can see whether there is year on year improvement, or none.
Thanks again for the banner, it does help increase the sense of
urgency.
Links:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-the-35-year-old-executive-director-of-wikim...
Fae
If we are discussing such things, why do not we are discussing whether WMF employees are driving to the work or taking public transportation? Or chapter employees? Or volunteers? Or whether volunteers switch off the light when they leave a room (I actually do)?
I really do not think this is a reasonable avenue to proceed.
Cheers Yaroslav
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 7:53 PM Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote:
Sure, but it seems more realistic than calculating the CO2 contributions from the management team compared to all the other employees.
At the end of the day, how many flights the executive team take as part of their jobs, and working out whether they are flying less or more in 2019 compared to 2018, is an very simple and useful fact to be open and transparent about. Doing so gives everyone a great incentive to do better.
Considering the WMF is getting ethical gold stars by putting a Climate Change banner over the entirety of its website landing page, it is reasonable to expect that the organization starts by changing itself and turn the non-committal statements in the WMF presentation from "we will consider" and "we will seek" in to a meaningful and measurable "we will act".
Thanks, Fae
On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 17:58, Joseph Seddon josephseddon@gmail.com wrote:
Because # of flights is not a useful metric for assessing environmental impact.
Seddon
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 3:23 PM Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote:
Those publications are where my numbers came from. There is no useful transparency to explain how many actual flights are taken, why or by
whom.
Fae
On Fri, 20 Sep 2019, 15:17 Lucas Werkmeister, <
mail@lucaswerkmeister.de>
wrote:
Did you see the sustainability report that was published yesterday
[1]
[2]? Page 30 of the PDF has some numbers on business travel by air – some 5.6 million km in total, by the looks of it. Page 32 also shows that the carbon footprint of air travel is about half that of the electricity used by the Foundation’s data centers.
Cheers, Lucas
[1]:
https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2019/09/19/how-the-wikimedia-foundation...
[2]:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikimedia_Foundation_Sustainability_...
On 20.09.19 15:23, Fæ wrote:
Nice to see that https://wikimediafoundation.org has a banner
linking
to the global climate strike today.
Can anyone produce some verifiable metrics that the WMF has taken significant action to reduce the total number of aircraft flights
the
WMF uses?
I am asking as though there are no transparently published figures
for
how much the WMF spends on air travel, I recall that the Katherine Mahler was interviewed by the Wall Street Journal, where is was
part
of her impressive executive profile to be "on the road" for 200
days
of the year. This probably puts Katherine in the very top numbers
for
CEOs with damaging carbon footprints resulting from travelling so often by flying.[1] If the WMF wants to be seen as an ethical
company
when it comes to reducing their organizational impact on climate change, perhaps this could start with publishing travel figures for the CEO and the rest of the management team, so that everyone can
see
whether there is year on year improvement, or none.
Thanks again for the banner, it does help increase the sense of
urgency.
Links:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-the-35-year-old-executive-director-of-wikim...
Fae
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
I have a few comments.
While I appreciate the sentiment, I wouldn't have put the wikimediafoundation.org domain "on strike", just as I wouldn't have put a government agency's website "on strike". I think that some discussion of climate change would be fine, but I think that WMF's action here is somewhat strange.
I think that asking about the climate impact of staff travel is fine. However, I would also include questions about travel for Wikimedia events more broadly. I believe that the WMF Board has indicated support for trying to reduce the Wikiverse's contributions to climate change. As has been mentioned in this thread, WMF released a report yesterday https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2019-September/093519.html on the subject of sustainability. While I have not read it, I think that measuring and attempting to reduce reduce negative environmental impacts from Wikimedia activities is good, including negative environmental impacts from travel. However, I also think that there are some benefits to morale and communications from in person meetings, so I would be reluctant to eliminate travel and conferences entirely.
I think that it's fine to ask whether WMF senior management is practicing what they preach. However, Fae, I feel that your tone in this thread is excessively harsh on this point. I think that you could ask very similar questions with a tone that is calmer.
On the subject of environmental sustainability, my main concern at this time is the banner on the WMF website which I feel is somewhat weird and is inconsistent with WMF's goal of being "essential infrastructure". Do we want "essential infrastructure" to go on strike, particularly when that infrastructure is supposed to be for an organization that provides public service and supports the community in publishing reliable scientific information? I think not. However, I think that the banner is regrettably consistent with the series of surprising decisions from WMF in the past few months. That is, to me, the most concerning element in all of this. If WMF wants to be a public service infrastructure provider then I think that it should act like one.
I think we could drastically lower our carbon footprint by not using community digital resources to beat the same dead horse for a billionth time.
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 4:00 PM Robert Fernandez wikigamaliel@gmail.com wrote:
I think we could drastically lower our carbon footprint by not using community digital resources to beat the same dead horse for a billionth time.
I laughed out loud.
AND. I love that the WMF joined the strike, and have some practical thoughts.
a) Reach out to Stripe https://stripe.com/gb/blog/negative-emissions-commitment, which has a through self-assessment and a negative-emissions program, and the Long Now, to coordinate efforts. b) Evaluate the community-wide carbon footprint, which is dominated by b.1) How we run conferences [*mostly in person*] b.2) How we choose partners, communicate climate imformation, and prioritize related policies [*fairly ad-hoc*]
Anyways this is perceived by the community.
In Wikimedia CH we cannot give scholarships for Wikimania because people would not do long trips.
IMHO the problem is these big events.
For this reason we prefer to give more scholarships for regional wikicon than to Wikimania.
This is the reason why you dont see more Swiss people at Wikimania.
Kind regards
On Sat, 21 Sep 2019, 00:51 Samuel Klein, meta.sj@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 4:00 PM Robert Fernandez wikigamaliel@gmail.com wrote:
I think we could drastically lower our carbon footprint by not using community digital resources to beat the same dead horse for a billionth time.
I laughed out loud.
AND. I love that the WMF joined the strike, and have some practical thoughts.
a) Reach out to Stripe https://stripe.com/gb/blog/negative-emissions-commitment, which has a through self-assessment and a negative-emissions program, and the Long Now, to coordinate efforts. b) Evaluate the community-wide carbon footprint, which is dominated by b.1) How we run conferences [*mostly in person*] b.2) How we choose partners, communicate climate imformation, and prioritize related policies [*fairly ad-hoc*] _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
I am a Swiss member, and I did go to Wikimania (and did a small presentation).
I think that you need to clarify you statement: "In Wikimedia CH we cannot give scholarships for Wikimania because people would not do long trips."
When looking up what was sais for Wikimania 2019 I read: "Wikimedia CH offers scholarships for active Wikimedians. They cover transportation, hotel (max 3 nights) from the 16th to the 18th, and registration fees. To check your eligibility, you can consult conditions of eligibility on this page https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_CH/Policies/Scholarships."
Best regards Gabe
On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 1:14 PM Ilario Valdelli valdelli@gmail.com wrote:
Anyways this is perceived by the community.
In Wikimedia CH we cannot give scholarships for Wikimania because people would not do long trips.
IMHO the problem is these big events.
For this reason we prefer to give more scholarships for regional wikicon than to Wikimania.
This is the reason why you dont see more Swiss people at Wikimania.
Kind regards
On Sat, 21 Sep 2019, 00:51 Samuel Klein, meta.sj@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 4:00 PM Robert Fernandez <wikigamaliel@gmail.com
wrote:
I think we could drastically lower our carbon footprint by not using community digital resources to beat the same dead horse for a billionth time.
I laughed out loud.
AND. I love that the WMF joined the strike, and have some practical thoughts.
a) Reach out to Stripe https://stripe.com/gb/blog/negative-emissions-commitment, which has a through self-assessment and a negative-emissions program, and the Long
Now,
to coordinate efforts. b) Evaluate the community-wide carbon footprint, which is dominated by b.1) How we run conferences [*mostly in person*] b.2) How we choose partners, communicate climate imformation, and prioritize related policies [*fairly ad-hoc*] _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Yes
We dont give all scholarships for that reason while for regional Wikicon we receive more requests and we fill the amount immediately.
It's not an opinion that in our events people prefer to arrive by train and not by flight. We see it as soon we receive the expenses report and when we ask the reason the answer is the climate change.
Kind regards
On Mon, 23 Sep 2019, 13:25 Gabriel Thullen, gabriel@thullen.com wrote:
I am a Swiss member, and I did go to Wikimania (and did a small presentation).
I think that you need to clarify you statement: "In Wikimedia CH we cannot give scholarships for Wikimania because people would not do long trips."
When looking up what was sais for Wikimania 2019 I read: "Wikimedia CH offers scholarships for active Wikimedians. They cover transportation, hotel (max 3 nights) from the 16th to the 18th, and registration fees. To check your eligibility, you can consult conditions of eligibility on this page https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_CH/Policies/Scholarships."
Best regards Gabe
On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 1:14 PM Ilario Valdelli valdelli@gmail.com wrote:
Anyways this is perceived by the community.
In Wikimedia CH we cannot give scholarships for Wikimania because people would not do long trips.
IMHO the problem is these big events.
For this reason we prefer to give more scholarships for regional wikicon than to Wikimania.
This is the reason why you dont see more Swiss people at Wikimania.
Kind regards
On Sat, 21 Sep 2019, 00:51 Samuel Klein, meta.sj@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 4:00 PM Robert Fernandez <
wikigamaliel@gmail.com
wrote:
I think we could drastically lower our carbon footprint by not using community digital resources to beat the same dead horse for a
billionth
time.
I laughed out loud.
AND. I love that the WMF joined the strike, and have some practical thoughts.
a) Reach out to Stripe https://stripe.com/gb/blog/negative-emissions-commitment, which has
a
through self-assessment and a negative-emissions program, and the Long
Now,
to coordinate efforts. b) Evaluate the community-wide carbon footprint, which is dominated by b.1) How we run conferences [*mostly in person*] b.2) How we choose partners, communicate climate imformation, and prioritize related policies [*fairly ad-hoc*] _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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Is it, perhaps, that the value a lot of people derive from these events is not just the conference itself, but the ability to meet fellow Wikimedians face-to-face and make meaningful contacts and even friendships that may never otherwise have come about? I'm all about virtual, but there is value in physical events, and I would say that we should make time and space for both.
On Mon, 23 Sep 2019 at 12:54, Ilario Valdelli valdelli@gmail.com wrote:
Yes
We dont give all scholarships for that reason while for regional Wikicon we receive more requests and we fill the amount immediately.
It's not an opinion that in our events people prefer to arrive by train and not by flight. We see it as soon we receive the expenses report and when we ask the reason the answer is the climate change.
Kind regards
On Mon, 23 Sep 2019, 13:25 Gabriel Thullen, gabriel@thullen.com wrote:
I am a Swiss member, and I did go to Wikimania (and did a small presentation).
I think that you need to clarify you statement: "In Wikimedia CH we cannot give scholarships for Wikimania because people would not do long trips."
When looking up what was sais for Wikimania 2019 I read: "Wikimedia CH offers scholarships for active Wikimedians. They cover transportation, hotel (max 3 nights) from the 16th to the 18th, and registration fees. To check your eligibility, you can consult conditions
of
eligibility on this page https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_CH/Policies/Scholarships."
Best regards Gabe
On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 1:14 PM Ilario Valdelli valdelli@gmail.com wrote:
Anyways this is perceived by the community.
In Wikimedia CH we cannot give scholarships for Wikimania because
people
would not do long trips.
IMHO the problem is these big events.
For this reason we prefer to give more scholarships for regional
wikicon
than to Wikimania.
This is the reason why you dont see more Swiss people at Wikimania.
Kind regards
On Sat, 21 Sep 2019, 00:51 Samuel Klein, meta.sj@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 4:00 PM Robert Fernandez <
wikigamaliel@gmail.com
wrote:
I think we could drastically lower our carbon footprint by not
using
community digital resources to beat the same dead horse for a
billionth
time.
I laughed out loud.
AND. I love that the WMF joined the strike, and have some practical thoughts.
a) Reach out to Stripe https://stripe.com/gb/blog/negative-emissions-commitment, which
has
a
through self-assessment and a negative-emissions program, and the
Long
Now,
to coordinate efforts. b) Evaluate the community-wide carbon footprint, which is dominated
by
b.1) How we run conferences [*mostly in person*] b.2) How we choose partners, communicate climate imformation, and prioritize related policies [*fairly ad-hoc*] _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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I don't know but if the option is to pay 500 long travels for scholarships by flight to attend a single event or to pay 500 travels for the staff of WMF to attend several regional conferences, the answer will be in favor of the second option which is more sustainable and more efficient.
I have seen more interest for regional events where people can speak their mother tongue and are lesser impactful for the environment than for big events.
After i can say that in Wikimania we dont see really the Wikipedia communities. We see the peak of the iceberg and this peak is not necessarly representative.
Kind regards
On Mon, 23 Sep 2019, 13:57 Rebecca O'Neill, rebeccanineil@gmail.com wrote:
Is it, perhaps, that the value a lot of people derive from these events is not just the conference itself, but the ability to meet fellow Wikimedians face-to-face and make meaningful contacts and even friendships that may never otherwise have come about? I'm all about virtual, but there is value in physical events, and I would say that we should make time and space for both.
On Mon, 23 Sep 2019 at 12:54, Ilario Valdelli valdelli@gmail.com wrote:
Yes
We dont give all scholarships for that reason while for regional Wikicon
we
receive more requests and we fill the amount immediately.
It's not an opinion that in our events people prefer to arrive by train
and
not by flight. We see it as soon we receive the expenses report and when
we
ask the reason the answer is the climate change.
Kind regards
On Mon, 23 Sep 2019, 13:25 Gabriel Thullen, gabriel@thullen.com wrote:
I am a Swiss member, and I did go to Wikimania (and did a small presentation).
I think that you need to clarify you statement: "In Wikimedia CH we cannot give scholarships for Wikimania because
people
would not do long trips."
When looking up what was sais for Wikimania 2019 I read: "Wikimedia CH offers scholarships for active Wikimedians. They cover transportation, hotel (max 3 nights) from the 16th to the 18th, and registration fees. To check your eligibility, you can consult
conditions
of
eligibility on this page https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_CH/Policies/Scholarships."
Best regards Gabe
On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 1:14 PM Ilario Valdelli valdelli@gmail.com wrote:
Anyways this is perceived by the community.
In Wikimedia CH we cannot give scholarships for Wikimania because
people
would not do long trips.
IMHO the problem is these big events.
For this reason we prefer to give more scholarships for regional
wikicon
than to Wikimania.
This is the reason why you dont see more Swiss people at Wikimania.
Kind regards
On Sat, 21 Sep 2019, 00:51 Samuel Klein, meta.sj@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 4:00 PM Robert Fernandez <
wikigamaliel@gmail.com
wrote:
I think we could drastically lower our carbon footprint by not
using
community digital resources to beat the same dead horse for a
billionth
time.
I laughed out loud.
AND. I love that the WMF joined the strike, and have some
practical
thoughts.
a) Reach out to Stripe https://stripe.com/gb/blog/negative-emissions-commitment, which
has
a
through self-assessment and a negative-emissions program, and the
Long
Now,
to coordinate efforts. b) Evaluate the community-wide carbon footprint, which is dominated
by
b.1) How we run conferences [*mostly in person*] b.2) How we choose partners, communicate climate imformation, and prioritize related policies [*fairly ad-hoc*] _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
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-- PhD in Digital Media Project Coordinator Wikimedia Community Ireland http://wikimedia.ie _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Imagine a world where instead of going through security for 2 or 3 hours, flying for 4 hours and travelling by train and bus to get to and from airports in order to enjoy a physical meeting with fellow Wikimedians, you simply got a bus or train and travelled for an hour to a fun meeting place where you met several fellow Wikimedians in your country, and together spend the day playing around with immersive conferencing to workshop, discuss and learn from fellow Wikimedians in other countries. All this and still get home to spend the night in your own bed, feed your cat, or meet your kids coming back from school.
That's "making time and space for both" while taking real measurable action for climate change by reducing our entirely avoidable numbers of international flights.
The truth is, that despite discussing this since Wikimania events started, and in that time technology making doing this is almost as simple as an Affiliate hiring headsets for mobile phones, we have never even trialled decent immersive virtual conferencing spaces for productive conferencing.
Fae
On Mon, 23 Sep 2019 at 12:57, Rebecca O'Neill rebeccanineil@gmail.com wrote:
Is it, perhaps, that the value a lot of people derive from these events is not just the conference itself, but the ability to meet fellow Wikimedians face-to-face and make meaningful contacts and even friendships that may never otherwise have come about? I'm all about virtual, but there is value in physical events, and I would say that we should make time and space for both.
On Mon, 23 Sep 2019 at 12:54, Ilario Valdelli valdelli@gmail.com wrote:
Yes
We dont give all scholarships for that reason while for regional Wikicon we receive more requests and we fill the amount immediately.
It's not an opinion that in our events people prefer to arrive by train and not by flight. We see it as soon we receive the expenses report and when we ask the reason the answer is the climate change.
Kind regards
On Mon, 23 Sep 2019, 13:25 Gabriel Thullen, gabriel@thullen.com wrote:
I am a Swiss member, and I did go to Wikimania (and did a small presentation).
I think that you need to clarify you statement: "In Wikimedia CH we cannot give scholarships for Wikimania because people would not do long trips."
When looking up what was sais for Wikimania 2019 I read: "Wikimedia CH offers scholarships for active Wikimedians. They cover transportation, hotel (max 3 nights) from the 16th to the 18th, and registration fees. To check your eligibility, you can consult conditions
of
eligibility on this page https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_CH/Policies/Scholarships."
Best regards Gabe
On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 1:14 PM Ilario Valdelli valdelli@gmail.com wrote:
Anyways this is perceived by the community.
In Wikimedia CH we cannot give scholarships for Wikimania because
people
would not do long trips.
IMHO the problem is these big events.
For this reason we prefer to give more scholarships for regional
wikicon
than to Wikimania.
This is the reason why you dont see more Swiss people at Wikimania.
Kind regards
On Sat, 21 Sep 2019, 00:51 Samuel Klein, meta.sj@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 4:00 PM Robert Fernandez <
wikigamaliel@gmail.com
wrote:
I think we could drastically lower our carbon footprint by not
using
community digital resources to beat the same dead horse for a
billionth
time.
I laughed out loud.
AND. I love that the WMF joined the strike, and have some practical thoughts.
a) Reach out to Stripe https://stripe.com/gb/blog/negative-emissions-commitment, which
has
a
through self-assessment and a negative-emissions program, and the
Long
Now,
to coordinate efforts. b) Evaluate the community-wide carbon footprint, which is dominated
by
b.1) How we run conferences [*mostly in person*] b.2) How we choose partners, communicate climate imformation, and prioritize related policies [*fairly ad-hoc*] _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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-- PhD in Digital Media Project Coordinator Wikimedia Community Ireland http://wikimedia.ie _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Hello,
I totally support Illario words: "if the option is to pay 500 long travels for scholarships by flight to attend a single event or to pay 500 travels for the staff of WMF to attend several regional conferences, the answer will be in favor of the second option which is more sustainable and more efficient." and what Fae and others have been saying all along. It makes much more sense to restrict global meetings and events to the minimum essential, and support instead regional events, which are way more cheaper, democratic, sustainable (in all ways) and have a much less significant carbon footprint. By inviting Wikimedians from nearby countries, WMF staff and very selected international scholarships we can still be able to provide great "flesh-and-bones" interaction, and can eventually coordinate with other groups of Wikimedians from any part of the world through videoconferencing. In this last Wikimania in Stockholm, I was actually able to successfully participate remotely in a panel there, along with 2 other remote fellows (me in Madeira Island, one in Israel and another in Mexico): https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2019:Education/Education_%26_Libraries:...
Of course, presential attendance and interaction is still crucial, as we (generally) are not hermits editing from caves, and it has a fundamental effect in local community capacity and structure building, but that can be done at a regional (rather than national, as travel costs and footprint do not respect national boundaries) level. For those reasons, I believe there should be a strong strategic focus on funding regional conferences in the Wikimedia Movement, and was somewhat disappointed when the organizing teams at Wikimania 2019 and the last Wiki Education conference at the Basque country apparently had not also focused on this regional approach (if it existed, it either was not explicit, or I couldn't find it), with a weighting factor on scholarships related to the proximity/vicinity of attendants.
I agree that it is very cool to be immersed in a sea of diversity and cultural interchange at Wikimedia events, with people coming from all parts of the world, but that is not sustainable, and as has been mentioned, that group of attendants is not necessarily representative of the active Wikimedian communities. More regional events, building up a strong regional Wikimedia structure, and limiting global events to the very essential, is the way to go IMO.
Best, Paulo
Fæ faewik@gmail.com escreveu no dia segunda, 23/09/2019 à(s) 13:10:
Imagine a world where instead of going through security for 2 or 3 hours, flying for 4 hours and travelling by train and bus to get to and from airports in order to enjoy a physical meeting with fellow Wikimedians, you simply got a bus or train and travelled for an hour to a fun meeting place where you met several fellow Wikimedians in your country, and together spend the day playing around with immersive conferencing to workshop, discuss and learn from fellow Wikimedians in other countries. All this and still get home to spend the night in your own bed, feed your cat, or meet your kids coming back from school.
That's "making time and space for both" while taking real measurable action for climate change by reducing our entirely avoidable numbers of international flights.
The truth is, that despite discussing this since Wikimania events started, and in that time technology making doing this is almost as simple as an Affiliate hiring headsets for mobile phones, we have never even trialled decent immersive virtual conferencing spaces for productive conferencing.
Fae
On Mon, 23 Sep 2019 at 12:57, Rebecca O'Neill rebeccanineil@gmail.com wrote:
Is it, perhaps, that the value a lot of people derive from these events
is
not just the conference itself, but the ability to meet fellow
Wikimedians
face-to-face and make meaningful contacts and even friendships that may never otherwise have come about? I'm all about virtual, but there is
value
in physical events, and I would say that we should make time and space
for
both.
On Mon, 23 Sep 2019 at 12:54, Ilario Valdelli valdelli@gmail.com
wrote:
Yes
We dont give all scholarships for that reason while for regional
Wikicon we
receive more requests and we fill the amount immediately.
It's not an opinion that in our events people prefer to arrive by
train and
not by flight. We see it as soon we receive the expenses report and
when we
ask the reason the answer is the climate change.
Kind regards
On Mon, 23 Sep 2019, 13:25 Gabriel Thullen, gabriel@thullen.com
wrote:
I am a Swiss member, and I did go to Wikimania (and did a small presentation).
I think that you need to clarify you statement: "In Wikimedia CH we cannot give scholarships for Wikimania because
people
would not do long trips."
When looking up what was sais for Wikimania 2019 I read: "Wikimedia CH offers scholarships for active Wikimedians. They cover transportation, hotel (max 3 nights) from the 16th to the 18th, and registration fees. To check your eligibility, you can consult
conditions
of
eligibility on this page <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_CH/Policies/Scholarships
."
Best regards Gabe
On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 1:14 PM Ilario Valdelli valdelli@gmail.com wrote:
Anyways this is perceived by the community.
In Wikimedia CH we cannot give scholarships for Wikimania because
people
would not do long trips.
IMHO the problem is these big events.
For this reason we prefer to give more scholarships for regional
wikicon
than to Wikimania.
This is the reason why you dont see more Swiss people at Wikimania.
Kind regards
On Sat, 21 Sep 2019, 00:51 Samuel Klein, meta.sj@gmail.com
wrote:
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 4:00 PM Robert Fernandez <
wikigamaliel@gmail.com
wrote:
> I think we could drastically lower our carbon footprint by not
using
> community digital resources to beat the same dead horse for a
billionth
> time. >
I laughed out loud.
AND. I love that the WMF joined the strike, and have some
practical
thoughts.
a) Reach out to Stripe https://stripe.com/gb/blog/negative-emissions-commitment,
which
has
a
through self-assessment and a negative-emissions program, and the
Long
Now,
to coordinate efforts. b) Evaluate the community-wide carbon footprint, which is
dominated
by
b.1) How we run conferences [*mostly in person*] b.2) How we choose partners, communicate climate imformation,
and
prioritize related policies [*fairly ad-hoc*] _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
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Maybe we can (as a movement) can invest more of our resources in the development of video conferencing and filming the presentations. Most volunteers are simple users, the are not necessarily computer techs, which means that we need to develop a "plug-and-play" method of participating. That been said, I am much more in favor of reducing the number of chapter-level staff and EDs who participate in Wikimania conferences (whereas the attendance of top-level WMF staff should be expected). The different Wikimedia projects are volunteer based projects, and the annual (or bi-annual) Wikimania conferences should be world-wide get-togethers of Wikimedia volunteers.
Staff is staff. When we send our employees around the World for these different conferences, we are not being very efficient. It would be far better to have them video-conference instead of spending hours or days in transport time, as well as food and lodging. Volunteers usually go on their vacation time.
The Wikimedia movement as a whole really needs to get some expertise when it comes to videoconferencing using open source solutions (as opposed to proprietary software solutions). A good place to start would be with the staff since we can choose what type of software we want, and our employees will then learn to use it. It will then be a lot easier for the volunteers to do the same.
Best regards Gabe
On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 2:49 PM Paulo Santos Perneta < paulosperneta@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello,
I totally support Illario words: "if the option is to pay 500 long travels for scholarships by flight to attend a single event or to pay 500 travels for the staff of WMF to attend several regional conferences, the answer will be in favor of the second option which is more sustainable and more efficient." and what Fae and others have been saying all along. It makes much more sense to restrict global meetings and events to the minimum essential, and support instead regional events, which are way more cheaper, democratic, sustainable (in all ways) and have a much less significant carbon footprint. By inviting Wikimedians from nearby countries, WMF staff and very selected international scholarships we can still be able to provide great "flesh-and-bones" interaction, and can eventually coordinate with other groups of Wikimedians from any part of the world through videoconferencing. In this last Wikimania in Stockholm, I was actually able to successfully participate remotely in a panel there, along with 2 other remote fellows (me in Madeira Island, one in Israel and another in Mexico):
https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2019:Education/Education_%26_Libraries:...
Of course, presential attendance and interaction is still crucial, as we (generally) are not hermits editing from caves, and it has a fundamental effect in local community capacity and structure building, but that can be done at a regional (rather than national, as travel costs and footprint do not respect national boundaries) level. For those reasons, I believe there should be a strong strategic focus on funding regional conferences in the Wikimedia Movement, and was somewhat disappointed when the organizing teams at Wikimania 2019 and the last Wiki Education conference at the Basque country apparently had not also focused on this regional approach (if it existed, it either was not explicit, or I couldn't find it), with a weighting factor on scholarships related to the proximity/vicinity of attendants.
I agree that it is very cool to be immersed in a sea of diversity and cultural interchange at Wikimedia events, with people coming from all parts of the world, but that is not sustainable, and as has been mentioned, that group of attendants is not necessarily representative of the active Wikimedian communities. More regional events, building up a strong regional Wikimedia structure, and limiting global events to the very essential, is the way to go IMO.
Best, Paulo
Fæ faewik@gmail.com escreveu no dia segunda, 23/09/2019 à(s) 13:10:
Imagine a world where instead of going through security for 2 or 3 hours, flying for 4 hours and travelling by train and bus to get to and from airports in order to enjoy a physical meeting with fellow Wikimedians, you simply got a bus or train and travelled for an hour to a fun meeting place where you met several fellow Wikimedians in your country, and together spend the day playing around with immersive conferencing to workshop, discuss and learn from fellow Wikimedians in other countries. All this and still get home to spend the night in your own bed, feed your cat, or meet your kids coming back from school.
That's "making time and space for both" while taking real measurable action for climate change by reducing our entirely avoidable numbers of international flights.
The truth is, that despite discussing this since Wikimania events started, and in that time technology making doing this is almost as simple as an Affiliate hiring headsets for mobile phones, we have never even trialled decent immersive virtual conferencing spaces for productive conferencing.
Fae
On Mon, 23 Sep 2019 at 12:57, Rebecca O'Neill rebeccanineil@gmail.com wrote:
Is it, perhaps, that the value a lot of people derive from these events
is
not just the conference itself, but the ability to meet fellow
Wikimedians
face-to-face and make meaningful contacts and even friendships that may never otherwise have come about? I'm all about virtual, but there is
value
in physical events, and I would say that we should make time and space
for
both.
On Mon, 23 Sep 2019 at 12:54, Ilario Valdelli valdelli@gmail.com
wrote:
Yes
We dont give all scholarships for that reason while for regional
Wikicon we
receive more requests and we fill the amount immediately.
It's not an opinion that in our events people prefer to arrive by
train and
not by flight. We see it as soon we receive the expenses report and
when we
ask the reason the answer is the climate change.
Kind regards
On Mon, 23 Sep 2019, 13:25 Gabriel Thullen, gabriel@thullen.com
wrote:
I am a Swiss member, and I did go to Wikimania (and did a small presentation).
I think that you need to clarify you statement: "In Wikimedia CH we cannot give scholarships for Wikimania because
people
would not do long trips."
When looking up what was sais for Wikimania 2019 I read: "Wikimedia CH offers scholarships for active Wikimedians. They
cover
transportation, hotel (max 3 nights) from the 16th to the 18th, and registration fees. To check your eligibility, you can consult
conditions
of
eligibility on this page <
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_CH/Policies/Scholarships
."
Best regards Gabe
On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 1:14 PM Ilario Valdelli <
valdelli@gmail.com>
wrote:
Anyways this is perceived by the community.
In Wikimedia CH we cannot give scholarships for Wikimania because
people
would not do long trips.
IMHO the problem is these big events.
For this reason we prefer to give more scholarships for regional
wikicon
than to Wikimania.
This is the reason why you dont see more Swiss people at
Wikimania.
Kind regards
On Sat, 21 Sep 2019, 00:51 Samuel Klein, meta.sj@gmail.com
wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 4:00 PM Robert Fernandez <
wikigamaliel@gmail.com
> > wrote: > > > I think we could drastically lower our carbon footprint by
not
using
> > community digital resources to beat the same dead horse for a
billionth
> > time. > > > > I laughed out loud. > > AND. I love that the WMF joined the strike, and have some
practical
> thoughts. > > a) Reach out to Stripe > https://stripe.com/gb/blog/negative-emissions-commitment,
which
has
a
> through self-assessment and a negative-emissions program, and
the
Long
Now, > to coordinate efforts. > b) Evaluate the community-wide carbon footprint, which is
dominated
by
> b.1) How we run conferences [*mostly in person*] > b.2) How we choose partners, communicate climate imformation,
and
> prioritize related policies [*fairly ad-hoc*] > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
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-- PhD in Digital Media Project Coordinator Wikimedia Community Ireland http://wikimedia.ie _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
-- faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote.
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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I would love to try doing this for the upcoming North American Wikiconference. What are examples of events you've participated in that did this well?
SJ
On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 10:15 AM Gabriel Thullen gabriel@thullen.com wrote:
Maybe we can (as a movement) can invest more of our resources in the development of video conferencing and filming the presentations. Most volunteers are simple users, the are not necessarily computer techs, which means that we need to develop a "plug-and-play" method of participating. That been said, I am much more in favor of reducing the number of chapter-level staff and EDs who participate in Wikimania conferences (whereas the attendance of top-level WMF staff should be expected). The different Wikimedia projects are volunteer based projects, and the annual (or bi-annual) Wikimania conferences should be world-wide get-togethers of Wikimedia volunteers.
Staff is staff. When we send our employees around the World for these different conferences, we are not being very efficient. It would be far better to have them video-conference instead of spending hours or days in transport time, as well as food and lodging. Volunteers usually go on their vacation time.
The Wikimedia movement as a whole really needs to get some expertise when it comes to videoconferencing using open source solutions (as opposed to proprietary software solutions). A good place to start would be with the staff since we can choose what type of software we want, and our employees will then learn to use it. It will then be a lot easier for the volunteers to do the same.
Best regards Gabe
On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 2:49 PM Paulo Santos Perneta < paulosperneta@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello,
I totally support Illario words: "if the option is to pay 500 long
travels
for scholarships by flight to attend a single event or to pay 500 travels for the staff of WMF to attend several regional conferences, the answer will be in favor of the second option which is more sustainable and more efficient." and what Fae and others have been saying all along. It makes much more sense to restrict global meetings and events to the minimum essential, and support instead regional events, which are way more
cheaper,
democratic, sustainable (in all ways) and have a much less significant carbon footprint. By inviting Wikimedians from nearby countries, WMF
staff
and very selected international scholarships we can still be able to provide great "flesh-and-bones" interaction, and can eventually
coordinate
with other groups of Wikimedians from any part of the world through videoconferencing. In this last Wikimania in Stockholm, I was actually
able
to successfully participate remotely in a panel there, along with 2 other remote fellows (me in Madeira Island, one in Israel and another in
Mexico):
https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2019:Education/Education_%26_Libraries:...
Of course, presential attendance and interaction is still crucial, as we (generally) are not hermits editing from caves, and it has a fundamental effect in local community capacity and structure building, but that can
be
done at a regional (rather than national, as travel costs and footprint
do
not respect national boundaries) level. For those reasons, I believe there should be a strong strategic focus on funding regional conferences in the Wikimedia Movement, and was somewhat disappointed when the organizing teams at Wikimania 2019 and the last
Wiki
Education conference at the Basque country apparently had not also
focused
on this regional approach (if it existed, it either was not explicit, or
I
couldn't find it), with a weighting factor on scholarships related to the proximity/vicinity of attendants.
I agree that it is very cool to be immersed in a sea of diversity and cultural interchange at Wikimedia events, with people coming from all
parts
of the world, but that is not sustainable, and as has been mentioned,
that
group of attendants is not necessarily representative of the active Wikimedian communities. More regional events, building up a strong
regional
Wikimedia structure, and limiting global events to the very essential, is the way to go IMO.
Best, Paulo
Fæ faewik@gmail.com escreveu no dia segunda, 23/09/2019 à(s) 13:10:
Imagine a world where instead of going through security for 2 or 3 hours, flying for 4 hours and travelling by train and bus to get to and from airports in order to enjoy a physical meeting with fellow Wikimedians, you simply got a bus or train and travelled for an hour to a fun meeting place where you met several fellow Wikimedians in your country, and together spend the day playing around with immersive conferencing to workshop, discuss and learn from fellow Wikimedians in other countries. All this and still get home to spend the night in your own bed, feed your cat, or meet your kids coming back from school.
That's "making time and space for both" while taking real measurable action for climate change by reducing our entirely avoidable numbers of international flights.
The truth is, that despite discussing this since Wikimania events started, and in that time technology making doing this is almost as simple as an Affiliate hiring headsets for mobile phones, we have never even trialled decent immersive virtual conferencing spaces for productive conferencing.
Fae
On Mon, 23 Sep 2019 at 12:57, Rebecca O'Neill <rebeccanineil@gmail.com
wrote:
Is it, perhaps, that the value a lot of people derive from these
events
is
not just the conference itself, but the ability to meet fellow
Wikimedians
face-to-face and make meaningful contacts and even friendships that
may
never otherwise have come about? I'm all about virtual, but there is
value
in physical events, and I would say that we should make time and
space
for
both.
On Mon, 23 Sep 2019 at 12:54, Ilario Valdelli valdelli@gmail.com
wrote:
Yes
We dont give all scholarships for that reason while for regional
Wikicon we
receive more requests and we fill the amount immediately.
It's not an opinion that in our events people prefer to arrive by
train and
not by flight. We see it as soon we receive the expenses report and
when we
ask the reason the answer is the climate change.
Kind regards
On Mon, 23 Sep 2019, 13:25 Gabriel Thullen, gabriel@thullen.com
wrote:
I am a Swiss member, and I did go to Wikimania (and did a small presentation).
I think that you need to clarify you statement: "In Wikimedia CH we cannot give scholarships for Wikimania
because
people
would not do long trips."
When looking up what was sais for Wikimania 2019 I read: "Wikimedia CH offers scholarships for active Wikimedians. They
cover
transportation, hotel (max 3 nights) from the 16th to the 18th,
and
registration fees. To check your eligibility, you can consult
conditions
of
eligibility on this page <
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_CH/Policies/Scholarships
."
Best regards Gabe
On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 1:14 PM Ilario Valdelli <
valdelli@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Anyways this is perceived by the community. > > In Wikimedia CH we cannot give scholarships for Wikimania
because
people
> would not do long trips. > > IMHO the problem is these big events. > > For this reason we prefer to give more scholarships for
regional
wikicon
> than to Wikimania. > > This is the reason why you dont see more Swiss people at
Wikimania.
> > Kind regards > > On Sat, 21 Sep 2019, 00:51 Samuel Klein, meta.sj@gmail.com
wrote:
> > > On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 4:00 PM Robert Fernandez < wikigamaliel@gmail.com > > > > wrote: > > > > > I think we could drastically lower our carbon footprint by
not
using
> > > community digital resources to beat the same dead horse
for a
billionth > > > time. > > > > > > > I laughed out loud. > > > > AND. I love that the WMF joined the strike, and have some
practical
> > thoughts. > > > > a) Reach out to Stripe > > https://stripe.com/gb/blog/negative-emissions-commitment,
which
has
a > > through self-assessment and a negative-emissions program, and
the
Long
> Now, > > to coordinate efforts. > > b) Evaluate the community-wide carbon footprint, which is
dominated
by
> > b.1) How we run conferences [*mostly in person*] > > b.2) How we choose partners, communicate climate
imformation,
and
> > prioritize related policies [*fairly ad-hoc*] > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
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-- PhD in Digital Media Project Coordinator Wikimedia Community Ireland <http://wikimedia.ie
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New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
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For work groups experience tells a first meting IRL to get to know each other is necessary, but after that video conference works well.
For big events, why not have groups (40-50 persons) get together on local level with excellent on-line facilities (wide screens etc) that connects to all other sites.
and where is this discussed in the strategy? Are we missing something that will be critical for our volunteers in 2030
Anders
Den 2019-09-23 kl. 13:52, skrev Rebecca O'Neill:
Is it, perhaps, that the value a lot of people derive from these events is not just the conference itself, but the ability to meet fellow Wikimedians face-to-face and make meaningful contacts and even friendships that may never otherwise have come about? I'm all about virtual, but there is value in physical events, and I would say that we should make time and space for both.
On Mon, 23 Sep 2019 at 12:54, Ilario Valdelli valdelli@gmail.com wrote:
Yes
We dont give all scholarships for that reason while for regional Wikicon we receive more requests and we fill the amount immediately.
It's not an opinion that in our events people prefer to arrive by train and not by flight. We see it as soon we receive the expenses report and when we ask the reason the answer is the climate change.
Kind regards
On Mon, 23 Sep 2019, 13:25 Gabriel Thullen, gabriel@thullen.com wrote:
I am a Swiss member, and I did go to Wikimania (and did a small presentation).
I think that you need to clarify you statement: "In Wikimedia CH we cannot give scholarships for Wikimania because people would not do long trips."
When looking up what was sais for Wikimania 2019 I read: "Wikimedia CH offers scholarships for active Wikimedians. They cover transportation, hotel (max 3 nights) from the 16th to the 18th, and registration fees. To check your eligibility, you can consult conditions
of
eligibility on this page https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_CH/Policies/Scholarships."
Best regards Gabe
On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 1:14 PM Ilario Valdelli valdelli@gmail.com wrote:
Anyways this is perceived by the community.
In Wikimedia CH we cannot give scholarships for Wikimania because
people
would not do long trips.
IMHO the problem is these big events.
For this reason we prefer to give more scholarships for regional
wikicon
than to Wikimania.
This is the reason why you dont see more Swiss people at Wikimania.
Kind regards
On Sat, 21 Sep 2019, 00:51 Samuel Klein, meta.sj@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 4:00 PM Robert Fernandez <
wikigamaliel@gmail.com
wrote:
I think we could drastically lower our carbon footprint by not
using
community digital resources to beat the same dead horse for a
billionth
time.
I laughed out loud.
AND. I love that the WMF joined the strike, and have some practical thoughts.
a) Reach out to Stripe https://stripe.com/gb/blog/negative-emissions-commitment, which
has
a
through self-assessment and a negative-emissions program, and the
Long
Now,
to coordinate efforts. b) Evaluate the community-wide carbon footprint, which is dominated
by
b.1) How we run conferences [*mostly in person*] b.2) How we choose partners, communicate climate imformation, and prioritize related policies [*fairly ad-hoc*] _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
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We used to regularly raise the issue of a lack of active videoconferencing at Wikimania. Though we (Wikimedians) are highly technically literate, we still do not host virtual attendees, such as 3D virtual conferencing and claim it a win if we release video streams of some of the presentations.
Both to reduce our community's carbon footprint, and to encourage access for those that find air travel challenging or impossible, it would be great to see the Wikimedia Foundation being active in trialing and funding virtual environments for our events. 25 years ago I worked for a global bank and had regular virtual meetings in a video room where you physically sat at a conference table where the other half telemagically was in other headquarters in other cities with shared (physical) whiteboards to help workshopping. These days it's relatively easy to videoconference, but we should do more to experiment with whether booking video suites in different cities might also be a good way of encouraging Wikimedians to default to local travel and still be active in our multi-national or global events and workshops. At the end of the day, paying a few hundred dollars for several conference suites or higher end conference kit hire hosted by local Wikimedia Chapters, is a fraction the cost of paying for a far smaller number of lucky applicants to get their flights and accommodation paid for.
This type of high quality conferencing initiative would perfectly fit the non-specific high level aims mentioned in the WMF sustainability documents. It's weird to me that this is still a debate, and folks are defending continued air travel at the current consumption levels, rather than even trialling all the virtual alternatives.
Fae
On Mon, 23 Sep 2019 at 12:14, Ilario Valdelli valdelli@gmail.com wrote:
Anyways this is perceived by the community.
In Wikimedia CH we cannot give scholarships for Wikimania because people would not do long trips.
IMHO the problem is these big events.
For this reason we prefer to give more scholarships for regional wikicon than to Wikimania.
This is the reason why you dont see more Swiss people at Wikimania.
Kind regards
This probably goes too far of this thread, but judging from another thread where attendance complain that no C-level WMF executive attended the French language conference, people expect from Wikimania not so much the talks (which I guess by now are available online anyway), but a chance of meeting some people and discussing issues which can not be discussed online - this is what Dutch call "wandelgangcultuur". In this sense, the live attendance is not at all the same as the online attendance.
Cheers Yaroslav
On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 1:36 PM Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote:
We used to regularly raise the issue of a lack of active videoconferencing at Wikimania. Though we (Wikimedians) are highly technically literate, we still do not host virtual attendees, such as 3D virtual conferencing and claim it a win if we release video streams of some of the presentations.
Both to reduce our community's carbon footprint, and to encourage access for those that find air travel challenging or impossible, it would be great to see the Wikimedia Foundation being active in trialing and funding virtual environments for our events. 25 years ago I worked for a global bank and had regular virtual meetings in a video room where you physically sat at a conference table where the other half telemagically was in other headquarters in other cities with shared (physical) whiteboards to help workshopping. These days it's relatively easy to videoconference, but we should do more to experiment with whether booking video suites in different cities might also be a good way of encouraging Wikimedians to default to local travel and still be active in our multi-national or global events and workshops. At the end of the day, paying a few hundred dollars for several conference suites or higher end conference kit hire hosted by local Wikimedia Chapters, is a fraction the cost of paying for a far smaller number of lucky applicants to get their flights and accommodation paid for.
This type of high quality conferencing initiative would perfectly fit the non-specific high level aims mentioned in the WMF sustainability documents. It's weird to me that this is still a debate, and folks are defending continued air travel at the current consumption levels, rather than even trialling all the virtual alternatives.
Fae
On Mon, 23 Sep 2019 at 12:14, Ilario Valdelli valdelli@gmail.com wrote:
Anyways this is perceived by the community.
In Wikimedia CH we cannot give scholarships for Wikimania because people would not do long trips.
IMHO the problem is these big events.
For this reason we prefer to give more scholarships for regional wikicon than to Wikimania.
This is the reason why you dont see more Swiss people at Wikimania.
Kind regards
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I am profoundly disappointed that WMF employees don't value the mission. Instead they seem to simply follow fashion and force users and volunteers to follow their fashionable methods of advocacy. They use their monopoly power to deny free access to the world's knowledge that many thousands of volunteers have diligently assembled. This time it is to show solidarity with environmental advocates. What will it be next time?
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 15:35 Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
I have a few comments.
While I appreciate the sentiment, I wouldn't have put the wikimediafoundation.org domain "on strike", just as I wouldn't have put a government agency's website "on strike". I think that some discussion of climate change would be fine, but I think that WMF's action here is somewhat strange.
I think that asking about the climate impact of staff travel is fine. However, I would also include questions about travel for Wikimedia events more broadly. I believe that the WMF Board has indicated support for trying to reduce the Wikiverse's contributions to climate change. As has been mentioned in this thread, WMF released a report yesterday < https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2019-September/093519.html
on the subject of sustainability. While I have not read it, I think that measuring and attempting to reduce reduce negative environmental impacts from Wikimedia activities is good, including negative environmental impacts from travel. However, I also think that there are some benefits to morale and communications from in person meetings, so I would be reluctant to eliminate travel and conferences entirely.
I think that it's fine to ask whether WMF senior management is practicing what they preach. However, Fae, I feel that your tone in this thread is excessively harsh on this point. I think that you could ask very similar questions with a tone that is calmer.
On the subject of environmental sustainability, my main concern at this time is the banner on the WMF website which I feel is somewhat weird and is inconsistent with WMF's goal of being "essential infrastructure". Do we want "essential infrastructure" to go on strike, particularly when that infrastructure is supposed to be for an organization that provides public service and supports the community in publishing reliable scientific information? I think not. However, I think that the banner is regrettably consistent with the series of surprising decisions from WMF in the past few months. That is, to me, the most concerning element in all of this. If WMF wants to be a public service infrastructure provider then I think that it should act like one.
Pine ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine ) _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Have thousands of volunteers really been involved assembling https://wikimediafoundation.org?
/Jan Ainali
On Sat, Sep 21, 2019, 02:45 Dennis During dcduring@gmail.com wrote:
I am profoundly disappointed that WMF employees don't value the mission. Instead they seem to simply follow fashion and force users and volunteers to follow their fashionable methods of advocacy. They use their monopoly power to deny free access to the world's knowledge that many thousands of volunteers have diligently assembled. This time it is to show solidarity with environmental advocates. What will it be next time?
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 15:35 Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
I have a few comments.
While I appreciate the sentiment, I wouldn't have put the wikimediafoundation.org domain "on strike", just as I wouldn't have put
a
government agency's website "on strike". I think that some discussion of climate change would be fine, but I think that WMF's action here is somewhat strange.
I think that asking about the climate impact of staff travel is fine. However, I would also include questions about travel for Wikimedia events more broadly. I believe that the WMF Board has indicated support for
trying
to reduce the Wikiverse's contributions to climate change. As has been mentioned in this thread, WMF released a report yesterday <
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2019-September/093519.html
on the subject of sustainability. While I have not read it, I think that measuring and attempting to reduce reduce negative environmental impacts from Wikimedia activities is good, including negative environmental
impacts
from travel. However, I also think that there are some benefits to morale and communications from in person meetings, so I would be reluctant to eliminate travel and conferences entirely.
I think that it's fine to ask whether WMF senior management is practicing what they preach. However, Fae, I feel that your tone in this thread is excessively harsh on this point. I think that you could ask very similar questions with a tone that is calmer.
On the subject of environmental sustainability, my main concern at this time is the banner on the WMF website which I feel is somewhat weird and
is
inconsistent with WMF's goal of being "essential infrastructure". Do we want "essential infrastructure" to go on strike, particularly when that infrastructure is supposed to be for an organization that provides public service and supports the community in publishing reliable scientific information? I think not. However, I think that the banner is regrettably consistent with the series of surprising decisions from WMF in the past
few
months. That is, to me, the most concerning element in all of this. If
WMF
wants to be a public service infrastructure provider then I think that it should act like one.
Pine ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine ) _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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As far as I can tell, only the Foundation wiki is showing the strike message. That particular one is pretty much theirs to do as they like with.
If they started doing that to any other wikis without their agreement, well, then we'd have a problem. But so long as it's only the WMF wiki itself, I don't see the issue.
Todd
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 6:45 PM Dennis During dcduring@gmail.com wrote:
I am profoundly disappointed that WMF employees don't value the mission. Instead they seem to simply follow fashion and force users and volunteers to follow their fashionable methods of advocacy. They use their monopoly power to deny free access to the world's knowledge that many thousands of volunteers have diligently assembled. This time it is to show solidarity with environmental advocates. What will it be next time?
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 15:35 Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
I have a few comments.
While I appreciate the sentiment, I wouldn't have put the wikimediafoundation.org domain "on strike", just as I wouldn't have put
a
government agency's website "on strike". I think that some discussion of climate change would be fine, but I think that WMF's action here is somewhat strange.
I think that asking about the climate impact of staff travel is fine. However, I would also include questions about travel for Wikimedia events more broadly. I believe that the WMF Board has indicated support for
trying
to reduce the Wikiverse's contributions to climate change. As has been mentioned in this thread, WMF released a report yesterday <
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2019-September/093519.html
on the subject of sustainability. While I have not read it, I think that measuring and attempting to reduce reduce negative environmental impacts from Wikimedia activities is good, including negative environmental
impacts
from travel. However, I also think that there are some benefits to morale and communications from in person meetings, so I would be reluctant to eliminate travel and conferences entirely.
I think that it's fine to ask whether WMF senior management is practicing what they preach. However, Fae, I feel that your tone in this thread is excessively harsh on this point. I think that you could ask very similar questions with a tone that is calmer.
On the subject of environmental sustainability, my main concern at this time is the banner on the WMF website which I feel is somewhat weird and
is
inconsistent with WMF's goal of being "essential infrastructure". Do we want "essential infrastructure" to go on strike, particularly when that infrastructure is supposed to be for an organization that provides public service and supports the community in publishing reliable scientific information? I think not. However, I think that the banner is regrettably consistent with the series of surprising decisions from WMF in the past
few
months. That is, to me, the most concerning element in all of this. If
WMF
wants to be a public service infrastructure provider then I think that it should act like one.
Pine ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine ) _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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I couldn't get onto WP or en.wikt shortly after I had heard about the MW participation in the strike. I jumped to an apparently wrong conclusion. Sorry.
I am glad that the availability of free knowledge for all was not disrupted.
On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 3:19 AM Todd Allen toddmallen@gmail.com wrote:
As far as I can tell, only the Foundation wiki is showing the strike message. That particular one is pretty much theirs to do as they like with.
If they started doing that to any other wikis without their agreement, well, then we'd have a problem. But so long as it's only the WMF wiki itself, I don't see the issue.
Todd
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 6:45 PM Dennis During dcduring@gmail.com wrote:
I am profoundly disappointed that WMF employees don't value the mission. Instead they seem to simply follow fashion and force users and volunteers to follow their fashionable methods of advocacy. They use their monopoly power to deny free access to the world's knowledge that many thousands of volunteers have diligently assembled. This time it is to show solidarity with environmental advocates. What will it be next time?
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 15:35 Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
I have a few comments.
While I appreciate the sentiment, I wouldn't have put the wikimediafoundation.org domain "on strike", just as I wouldn't have
put
a
government agency's website "on strike". I think that some discussion
of
climate change would be fine, but I think that WMF's action here is somewhat strange.
I think that asking about the climate impact of staff travel is fine. However, I would also include questions about travel for Wikimedia
events
more broadly. I believe that the WMF Board has indicated support for
trying
to reduce the Wikiverse's contributions to climate change. As has been mentioned in this thread, WMF released a report yesterday <
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2019-September/093519.html
on the subject of sustainability. While I have not read it, I think
that
measuring and attempting to reduce reduce negative environmental
impacts
from Wikimedia activities is good, including negative environmental
impacts
from travel. However, I also think that there are some benefits to
morale
and communications from in person meetings, so I would be reluctant to eliminate travel and conferences entirely.
I think that it's fine to ask whether WMF senior management is
practicing
what they preach. However, Fae, I feel that your tone in this thread is excessively harsh on this point. I think that you could ask very
similar
questions with a tone that is calmer.
On the subject of environmental sustainability, my main concern at this time is the banner on the WMF website which I feel is somewhat weird
and
is
inconsistent with WMF's goal of being "essential infrastructure". Do we want "essential infrastructure" to go on strike, particularly when that infrastructure is supposed to be for an organization that provides
public
service and supports the community in publishing reliable scientific information? I think not. However, I think that the banner is
regrettably
consistent with the series of surprising decisions from WMF in the past
few
months. That is, to me, the most concerning element in all of this. If
WMF
wants to be a public service infrastructure provider then I think that
it
should act like one.
Pine ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine ) _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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Hi,
Does anyone have a screenshot of the page with this banner? Or a link to an online archive? Or at least the banner itself?
sasha.
On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 9:54 PM Dennis During dcduring@gmail.com wrote:
I couldn't get onto WP or en.wikt shortly after I had heard about the MW participation in the strike. I jumped to an apparently wrong conclusion. Sorry.
I am glad that the availability of free knowledge for all was not disrupted.
On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 3:19 AM Todd Allen toddmallen@gmail.com wrote:
As far as I can tell, only the Foundation wiki is showing the strike message. That particular one is pretty much theirs to do as they like with.
If they started doing that to any other wikis without their agreement, well, then we'd have a problem. But so long as it's only the WMF wiki itself, I don't see the issue.
Todd
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 6:45 PM Dennis During dcduring@gmail.com wrote:
I am profoundly disappointed that WMF employees don't value the mission. Instead they seem to simply follow fashion and force users and volunteers to follow their fashionable methods of advocacy. They use their monopoly power to deny free access to the world's knowledge that many thousands of volunteers have diligently assembled. This time it is to show solidarity with environmental advocates. What will it be next time?
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 15:35 Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
I have a few comments.
While I appreciate the sentiment, I wouldn't have put the wikimediafoundation.org domain "on strike", just as I wouldn't have
put
a
government agency's website "on strike". I think that some discussion
of
climate change would be fine, but I think that WMF's action here is somewhat strange.
I think that asking about the climate impact of staff travel is fine. However, I would also include questions about travel for Wikimedia
events
more broadly. I believe that the WMF Board has indicated support for
trying
to reduce the Wikiverse's contributions to climate change. As has been mentioned in this thread, WMF released a report yesterday <
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2019-September/093519.html
on the subject of sustainability. While I have not read it, I think
that
measuring and attempting to reduce reduce negative environmental
impacts
from Wikimedia activities is good, including negative environmental
impacts
from travel. However, I also think that there are some benefits to
morale
and communications from in person meetings, so I would be reluctant to eliminate travel and conferences entirely.
I think that it's fine to ask whether WMF senior management is
practicing
what they preach. However, Fae, I feel that your tone in this thread is excessively harsh on this point. I think that you could ask very
similar
questions with a tone that is calmer.
On the subject of environmental sustainability, my main concern at this time is the banner on the WMF website which I feel is somewhat weird
and
is
inconsistent with WMF's goal of being "essential infrastructure". Do we want "essential infrastructure" to go on strike, particularly when that infrastructure is supposed to be for an organization that provides
public
service and supports the community in publishing reliable scientific information? I think not. However, I think that the banner is
regrettably
consistent with the series of surprising decisions from WMF in the past
few
months. That is, to me, the most concerning element in all of this. If
WMF
wants to be a public service infrastructure provider then I think that
it
should act like one.
Pine ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine ) _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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-- Dennis C. During _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
A screenshot has been uploaded to https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:WMF_global_climate_strike_banner_201....
Unfortunately, though web.archive.org has snapshots of the website, these do not appear to render the banner as it displayed in a browser on the day.
Fae
Does anyone know whether the screen allowed a user to click through?
On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 1:25 PM Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote:
A screenshot has been uploaded to
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:WMF_global_climate_strike_banner_201... .
Unfortunately, though web.archive.org has snapshots of the website, these do not appear to render the banner as it displayed in a browser on the day.
Fae
faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 at 09:30, Alexander N Krassotkin krassotkin@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
Does anyone have a screenshot of the page with this banner? Or a link to an online archive? Or at least the banner itself?
sasha.
On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 9:54 PM Dennis During dcduring@gmail.com
wrote:
I couldn't get onto WP or en.wikt shortly after I had heard about the
MW
participation in the strike. I jumped to an apparently wrong
conclusion.
Sorry.
I am glad that the availability of free knowledge for all was not
disrupted.
On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 3:19 AM Todd Allen toddmallen@gmail.com
wrote:
As far as I can tell, only the Foundation wiki is showing the strike message. That particular one is pretty much theirs to do as they
like with.
If they started doing that to any other wikis without their
agreement,
well, then we'd have a problem. But so long as it's only the WMF wiki itself, I don't see the issue.
Todd
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 6:45 PM Dennis During dcduring@gmail.com
wrote:
I am profoundly disappointed that WMF employees don't value the
mission.
Instead they seem to simply follow fashion and force users and
volunteers
to follow their fashionable methods of advocacy. They use their
monopoly
power to deny free access to the world's knowledge that many
thousands of
volunteers have diligently assembled. This time it is to show
solidarity
with environmental advocates. What will it be next time?
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 15:35 Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
I have a few comments.
While I appreciate the sentiment, I wouldn't have put the wikimediafoundation.org domain "on strike", just as I wouldn't
have
put
a
government agency's website "on strike". I think that some
discussion
of
climate change would be fine, but I think that WMF's action here
is
somewhat strange.
I think that asking about the climate impact of staff travel is
fine.
However, I would also include questions about travel for
Wikimedia
events
more broadly. I believe that the WMF Board has indicated support
for
trying
to reduce the Wikiverse's contributions to climate change. As
has been
mentioned in this thread, WMF released a report yesterday <
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2019-September/093519.html
> on the subject of sustainability. While I have not read it, I
think
that
measuring and attempting to reduce reduce negative environmental
impacts
from Wikimedia activities is good, including negative
environmental
impacts
from travel. However, I also think that there are some benefits
to
morale
and communications from in person meetings, so I would be
reluctant to
eliminate travel and conferences entirely.
I think that it's fine to ask whether WMF senior management is
practicing
what they preach. However, Fae, I feel that your tone in this
thread is
excessively harsh on this point. I think that you could ask very
similar
questions with a tone that is calmer.
On the subject of environmental sustainability, my main concern
at this
time is the banner on the WMF website which I feel is somewhat
weird
and
is
inconsistent with WMF's goal of being "essential
infrastructure". Do we
want "essential infrastructure" to go on strike, particularly
when that
infrastructure is supposed to be for an organization that
provides
public
service and supports the community in publishing reliable
scientific
information? I think not. However, I think that the banner is
regrettably
consistent with the series of surprising decisions from WMF in
the past
few
months. That is, to me, the most concerning element in all of
this. If
WMF
wants to be a public service infrastructure provider then I
think that
it
should act like one.
Pine ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine ) _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
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When I visited it, yes, the message could be dismissed.
Todd
On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 4:53 PM Dennis During dcduring@gmail.com wrote:
Does anyone know whether the screen allowed a user to click through?
On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 1:25 PM Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote:
A screenshot has been uploaded to
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:WMF_global_climate_strike_banner_201...
.
Unfortunately, though web.archive.org has snapshots of the website, these do not appear to render the banner as it displayed in a browser on the day.
Fae
faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 at 09:30, Alexander N Krassotkin krassotkin@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
Does anyone have a screenshot of the page with this banner? Or a link to an online archive? Or at least the banner itself?
sasha.
On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 9:54 PM Dennis During dcduring@gmail.com
wrote:
I couldn't get onto WP or en.wikt shortly after I had heard about the
MW
participation in the strike. I jumped to an apparently wrong
conclusion.
Sorry.
I am glad that the availability of free knowledge for all was not
disrupted.
On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 3:19 AM Todd Allen toddmallen@gmail.com
wrote:
As far as I can tell, only the Foundation wiki is showing the
strike
message. That particular one is pretty much theirs to do as they
like with.
If they started doing that to any other wikis without their
agreement,
well, then we'd have a problem. But so long as it's only the WMF
wiki
itself, I don't see the issue.
Todd
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 6:45 PM Dennis During dcduring@gmail.com
wrote:
I am profoundly disappointed that WMF employees don't value the
mission.
Instead they seem to simply follow fashion and force users and
volunteers
to follow their fashionable methods of advocacy. They use their
monopoly
power to deny free access to the world's knowledge that many
thousands of
volunteers have diligently assembled. This time it is to show
solidarity
with environmental advocates. What will it be next time?
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 15:35 Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
> I have a few comments. > > While I appreciate the sentiment, I wouldn't have put the > wikimediafoundation.org domain "on strike", just as I wouldn't
have
put
a > government agency's website "on strike". I think that some
discussion
of
> climate change would be fine, but I think that WMF's action
here
is
> somewhat strange. > > I think that asking about the climate impact of staff travel is
fine.
> However, I would also include questions about travel for
Wikimedia
events
> more broadly. I believe that the WMF Board has indicated
support
for
trying > to reduce the Wikiverse's contributions to climate change. As
has been
> mentioned in this thread, WMF released a report yesterday > < >
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2019-September/093519.html
> > > on the subject of sustainability. While I have not read it, I
think
that
> measuring and attempting to reduce reduce negative
environmental
impacts
> from Wikimedia activities is good, including negative
environmental
impacts > from travel. However, I also think that there are some benefits
to
morale
> and communications from in person meetings, so I would be
reluctant to
> eliminate travel and conferences entirely. > > I think that it's fine to ask whether WMF senior management is
practicing
> what they preach. However, Fae, I feel that your tone in this
thread is
> excessively harsh on this point. I think that you could ask
very
similar
> questions with a tone that is calmer. > > On the subject of environmental sustainability, my main concern
at this
> time is the banner on the WMF website which I feel is somewhat
weird
and
is > inconsistent with WMF's goal of being "essential
infrastructure". Do we
> want "essential infrastructure" to go on strike, particularly
when that
> infrastructure is supposed to be for an organization that
provides
public
> service and supports the community in publishing reliable
scientific
> information? I think not. However, I think that the banner is
regrettably
> consistent with the series of surprising decisions from WMF in
the past
few > months. That is, to me, the most concerning element in all of
this. If
WMF > wants to be a public service infrastructure provider then I
think that
it
> should act like one. > > Pine > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine ) > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
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?subject=unsubscribe>
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-- Dennis C. During
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