Typical. They were not willing to tell our legal counsel why or what was classified; she, of course, has no French security clearance; now it is spread all over an administrators noticeboard, and restored.
They weren't wrong but neither is our legal counsel or the users; so "fell between the cracks." Hopefully the matter was not too important; I'm sure we have enough money to pay for relocating the facility to a secure location.
Fred
This is where the discussion is happening on-wiki: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Bulletin_des_administrateurs#Sec...
On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 10:52 AM, Fred Bauder fredbaud@fairpoint.net
wrote:
Hard to know what was involved from the information you provide. The
problem is there is classified information that amounts to nothing and then there is classified information release of which can cause serious damage. Defiance will eventually result in serious trouble. Not that we should knuckle under to nonsense.
Fred
Hi there, I guess you might be interested to hear that Direction Centrale du
Renseignement Intérieur (Central Directorate of Interior
Intelligence,
DCRI), a French intelligence agency that reports directly to the
Ministry of the Interior, has apparently forced a French Wikipedia administrator to delete an article that in their opinionâas I understand itârevelead classified information deemed very harmful
to
the French national defence ("compromission du secret de la Défense
nationale").
Interestingly, they contacted the WMF legal team with a request to
remove (delete? suppress?) this article a couple of weeks before
that,
but were refused after failing to provide further information on why
the article should be removed (in the words of a Foundation legal counsel).
Undounted by that, they approached the said administrator â who
operates under his real name, so I guess it was pretty easy to track him â and asked him to delete this article, a request which he obliged. (The article has since been restored by a different
administrator). As far as I understand, the version of the article
they wanted to have deleted was
https://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=81104004.
I guess that when an intelligence agency asks their citizen to
remove information from Wikipedia citing the penal code (article 413-11 of the French penal code in this case), it is something worth sharing
(no
harm intended).
Further reading in English:
https://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=91705235
-- Tomasz W. KozÅowski a.k.a. [[user:odder]]
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This is seeming a little silly; it's just a big communications station. It's got huge radio towers and is very visible on the skyline for a distance. It's got a civilian radio/TV tower colocated with it.
I can't see what would be sensitive in the article..
On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 12:12 PM, Fred Bauder fredbaud@fairpoint.net wrote:
Typical. They were not willing to tell our legal counsel why or what was classified; she, of course, has no French security clearance; now it is spread all over an administrators noticeboard, and restored.
They weren't wrong but neither is our legal counsel or the users; so "fell between the cracks." Hopefully the matter was not too important; I'm sure we have enough money to pay for relocating the facility to a secure location.
Fred
This is where the discussion is happening on-wiki:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Bulletin_des_administrateurs#Sec...
On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 10:52 AM, Fred Bauder fredbaud@fairpoint.net
wrote:
Hard to know what was involved from the information you provide. The
problem is there is classified information that amounts to nothing and then there is classified information release of which can cause serious damage. Defiance will eventually result in serious trouble. Not that we should knuckle under to nonsense.
Fred
Hi there, I guess you might be interested to hear that Direction Centrale du
Renseignement Intérieur (Central Directorate of Interior
Intelligence,
DCRI), a French intelligence agency that reports directly to the
Ministry of the Interior, has apparently forced a French Wikipedia administrator to delete an article that in their opinion—as I understand it—revelead classified information deemed very harmful
to
the French national defence ("compromission du secret de la Défense
nationale").
Interestingly, they contacted the WMF legal team with a request to
remove (delete? suppress?) this article a couple of weeks before
that,
but were refused after failing to provide further information on why
the article should be removed (in the words of a Foundation legal counsel).
Undounted by that, they approached the said administrator — who
operates under his real name, so I guess it was pretty easy to track him — and asked him to delete this article, a request which he obliged. (The article has since been restored by a different
administrator). As far as I understand, the version of the article
they wanted to have deleted was
https://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=81104004.
I guess that when an intelligence agency asks their citizen to
remove information from Wikipedia citing the penal code (article 413-11 of the French penal code in this case), it is something worth sharing
(no
harm intended).
Further reading in English:
https://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=91705235
-- Tomasz W. Kozłowski a.k.a. [[user:odder]]
Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
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--
Matthew Roth Global Communications Manager Wikimedia Foundation +1.415.839.6885 ext 6635 www.wikimediafoundation.org *https://donate.wikimedia.org*
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Somehow it is important... Streisand effect writ large. Unless somehow it was just a mixup, or a deliberate attempt to put a false target forward.
Fred
This is seeming a little silly; it's just a big communications station. It's got huge radio towers and is very visible on the skyline for a distance. It's got a civilian radio/TV tower colocated with it.
I can't see what would be sensitive in the article..
On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 12:12 PM, Fred Bauder fredbaud@fairpoint.net wrote:
Typical. They were not willing to tell our legal counsel why or what was classified; she, of course, has no French security clearance; now it is spread all over an administrators noticeboard, and restored.
They weren't wrong but neither is our legal counsel or the users; so "fell between the cracks." Hopefully the matter was not too important; I'm sure we have enough money to pay for relocating the facility to a secure location.
Fred
This is where the discussion is happening on-wiki:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Bulletin_des_administrateurs#Sec...
On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 10:52 AM, Fred Bauder fredbaud@fairpoint.net
wrote:
Hard to know what was involved from the information you provide. The
problem is there is classified information that amounts to nothing and then there is classified information release of which can cause serious damage. Defiance will eventually result in serious trouble. Not that we should knuckle under to nonsense.
Fred
Hi there, I guess you might be interested to hear that Direction Centrale du
Renseignement Intérieur (Central Directorate of Interior
Intelligence,
DCRI), a French intelligence agency that reports directly to the
Ministry of the Interior, has apparently forced a French Wikipedia administrator to delete an article that in their opinionâas I understand itârevelead classified information deemed very harmful
to
the French national defence ("compromission du secret de la
Défense nationale").
Interestingly, they contacted the WMF legal team with a request to
remove (delete? suppress?) this article a couple of weeks before
that,
but were refused after failing to provide further information on
why the article should be removed (in the words of a Foundation legal counsel).
Undounted by that, they approached the said administrator â who
operates under his real name, so I guess it was pretty easy to track him â and asked him to delete this article, a request which he obliged. (The article has since been restored by a different
administrator). As far as I understand, the version of the article
they wanted to have deleted was
https://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=81104004.
I guess that when an intelligence agency asks their citizen to
remove information from Wikipedia citing the penal code (article 413-11 of the French penal code in this case), it is something worth sharing
(no
harm intended).
Further reading in English:
https://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=91705235
-- Tomasz W. KozÅowski a.k.a. [[user:odder]]
Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
--
Matthew Roth Global Communications Manager Wikimedia Foundation +1.415.839.6885 ext 6635 www.wikimediafoundation.org *https://donate.wikimedia.org*
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-- -george william herbert george.herbert@gmail.com
Was it an author of the article they contacted, or just a random administrator? Leo
_______________Leonard Wallentinleo_wallentin@hotmail.com@leo_wallentin+46 (0) 735 - 933 543
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2013 13:44:57 -0600 From: fredbaud@fairpoint.net To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] French intelligency agency forces removal of a Wikipedia article
Somehow it is important... Streisand effect writ large. Unless somehow it was just a mixup, or a deliberate attempt to put a false target forward.
Fred
This is seeming a little silly; it's just a big communications station. It's got huge radio towers and is very visible on the skyline for a distance. It's got a civilian radio/TV tower colocated with it.
I can't see what would be sensitive in the article..
On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 12:12 PM, Fred Bauder fredbaud@fairpoint.net wrote:
Typical. They were not willing to tell our legal counsel why or what was classified; she, of course, has no French security clearance; now it is spread all over an administrators noticeboard, and restored.
They weren't wrong but neither is our legal counsel or the users; so "fell between the cracks." Hopefully the matter was not too important; I'm sure we have enough money to pay for relocating the facility to a secure location.
Fred
This is where the discussion is happening on-wiki:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Bulletin_des_administrateurs#Sec...
On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 10:52 AM, Fred Bauder fredbaud@fairpoint.net
wrote:
Hard to know what was involved from the information you provide. The
problem is there is classified information that amounts to nothing and then there is classified information release of which can cause serious damage. Defiance will eventually result in serious trouble. Not that we should knuckle under to nonsense.
Fred
Hi there, I guess you might be interested to hear that Direction Centrale du
Renseignement Intérieur (Central Directorate of Interior
Intelligence,
DCRI), a French intelligence agency that reports directly to the
Ministry of the Interior, has apparently forced a French Wikipedia administrator to delete an article that in their opinion—as I understand it—revelead classified information deemed very harmful
to
the French national defence ("compromission du secret de la
Défense nationale").
Interestingly, they contacted the WMF legal team with a request to
remove (delete? suppress?) this article a couple of weeks before
that,
but were refused after failing to provide further information on
why the article should be removed (in the words of a Foundation legal counsel).
Undounted by that, they approached the said administrator — who
operates under his real name, so I guess it was pretty easy to track him — and asked him to delete this article, a request which he obliged. (The article has since been restored by a different
administrator). As far as I understand, the version of the article
they wanted to have deleted was
https://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=81104004.
I guess that when an intelligence agency asks their citizen to
remove information from Wikipedia citing the penal code (article 413-11 of the French penal code in this case), it is something worth sharing
(no
harm intended).
Further reading in English:
https://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=91705235
-- Tomasz W. Kozłowski a.k.a. [[user:odder]]
Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
--
Matthew Roth Global Communications Manager Wikimedia Foundation +1.415.839.6885 ext 6635 www.wikimediafoundation.org *https://donate.wikimedia.org*
Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
-- -george william herbert george.herbert@gmail.com
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Le vendredi 05 avril 2013 à 13:44 -0600, Fred Bauder a écrit :
Somehow it is important... Streisand effect writ large. Unless somehow it was just a mixup, or a deliberate attempt to put a false target forward.
Or maybe just a test to see how hard it could be to do. Who know. ;)
All complaints about this project will be respected. I completely understand why a certain country or locality would object to data being included and this project.
Keep in mind that all pieces of data used in the project must be available to the public. I do not understand why there would be an objection when data used is freely available.
The current Wikipedia 'Economy of the ________" pages already feature lots of world economic data. This project organizes that data in a legal way.
The whole point of this project is to provide a public good. I do not want to offend anyone or do anybody harm. I believe that this project would help educated people about the world economy.
On 5 April 2013 20:02, Mathieu Stumpf psychoslave@culture-libre.org wrote:
Le vendredi 05 avril 2013 à 13:44 -0600, Fred Bauder a écrit :
Somehow it is important... Streisand effect writ large. Unless somehow it was just a mixup, or a deliberate attempt to put a false target forward.
Or maybe just a test to see how hard it could be to do. Who know. ;)
Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Call me at 206-304-0703 if you want to talk. I live in Seattle and it is 9:33 pm here
On 5 April 2013 21:32, Alex Peek alexpeek1@gmail.com wrote:
All complaints about this project will be respected. I completely understand why a certain country or locality would object to data being included and this project.
Keep in mind that all pieces of data used in the project must be available to the public. I do not understand why there would be an objection when data used is freely available.
The current Wikipedia 'Economy of the ________" pages already feature lots of world economic data. This project organizes that data in a legal way.
The whole point of this project is to provide a public good. I do not want to offend anyone or do anybody harm. I believe that this project would help educated people about the world economy.
On 5 April 2013 20:02, Mathieu Stumpf psychoslave@culture-libre.orgwrote:
Le vendredi 05 avril 2013 à 13:44 -0600, Fred Bauder a écrit :
Somehow it is important... Streisand effect writ large. Unless somehow
it
was just a mixup, or a deliberate attempt to put a false target forward.
Or maybe just a test to see how hard it could be to do. Who know. ;)
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Quite so, any information that can not be referenced can be challenged and deleted in the usual way - without attracting much attention, and entirely within the accepted procedures of Wikipedia.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex Peek" alexpeek1@gmail.com To: "Wikimedia Mailing List" wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2013 6:32 AM Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] French intelligency agency forces removal of a Wikipedia article
All complaints about this project will be respected. I completely understand why a certain country or locality would object to data being included and this project.
Keep in mind that all pieces of data used in the project must be available to the public. I do not understand why there would be an objection when data used is freely available.
The current Wikipedia 'Economy of the ________" pages already feature lots of world economic data. This project organizes that data in a legal way.
The whole point of this project is to provide a public good. I do not want to offend anyone or do anybody harm. I believe that this project would help educated people about the world economy.
On 5 April 2013 20:02, Mathieu Stumpf psychoslave@culture-libre.org wrote:
Le vendredi 05 avril 2013 à 13:44 -0600, Fred Bauder a écrit :
Somehow it is important... Streisand effect writ large. Unless somehow it was just a mixup, or a deliberate attempt to put a false target forward.
Or maybe just a test to see how hard it could be to do. Who know. ;)
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No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2240 / Virus Database: 2641/5726 - Release Date: 04/05/13
WMF Legal Counsel Michele Paulson has added a statement to the discussion on fr.wp here: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Bulletin_des_administrateurs/201... .
It is also repeated on Meta here: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Legal_and_Community_Advocacy/Statement_on_Fr...
I noted on the Communications Committee list that everyone can feel invited to send press inquiries to me at the Foundation. I'm happy to clarify what we know of the chronology of events and answer questions reporters might have.
thank you, Matthew
wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org