Hi all,
This is one of these things that seems particularly hard to find, so I'd like to pick your collective brains on this:
What are the various policies across our little universe on using the 'hide version' functionality to hide historical versions of articles? I would especially appreciate it if you could elaborate a bit on how it's used in practice with regards to privacy violations (what is the threshold of private information that would justify hiding versions) and copyright violations (when do you actually hide the versions, rather than just remove it from the current version and leave it in the history).
Are there any global policies on this? I think not, but always better to double check :).
Best, Lodewijk
privacy violations is not standard at all. For example some wikis hide personal details that people put on purpose, while other ones see no point since it's their will to show them.
Also, even if it is not strictly related to private information, blocking deceased users is not standardized among platforms.
Il lunedì 14 gennaio 2019, 18:29:36 CET, effe iets anders effeietsanders@gmail.com ha scritto:
Hi all,
This is one of these things that seems particularly hard to find, so I'd like to pick your collective brains on this:
What are the various policies across our little universe on using the 'hide version' functionality to hide historical versions of articles? I would especially appreciate it if you could elaborate a bit on how it's used in practice with regards to privacy violations (what is the threshold of private information that would justify hiding versions) and copyright violations (when do you actually hide the versions, rather than just remove it from the current version and leave it in the history).
Are there any global policies on this? I think not, but always better to double check :).
Best, Lodewijk _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Are you talking about deleting revisions? There is a global policy on this, found here: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Oversight_policy
There are local rules as well, compiled here: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Oversight_policy/Local_policies
See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Revision_deletion
Cheers, Marielle
On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 5:44 PM Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l < wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
privacy violations is not standard at all. For example some wikis hide personal details that people put on purpose, while other ones see no point since it's their will to show them.
Also, even if it is not strictly related to private information, blocking deceased users is not standardized among platforms.
Il lunedì 14 gennaio 2019, 18:29:36 CET, effe iets anders <effeietsanders@gmail.com> ha scritto:
Hi all,
This is one of these things that seems particularly hard to find, so I'd like to pick your collective brains on this:
What are the various policies across our little universe on using the 'hide version' functionality to hide historical versions of articles? I would especially appreciate it if you could elaborate a bit on how it's used in practice with regards to privacy violations (what is the threshold of private information that would justify hiding versions) and copyright violations (when do you actually hide the versions, rather than just remove it from the current version and leave it in the history).
Are there any global policies on this? I think not, but always better to double check :).
Best, Lodewijk _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
I think one of the issues here is that we are not all using the same terminology.
"Hiding", on English Wikipedia, is generally reserved for some weird extensions that had to have special features built in because revision-deletion, deletion, and suppression did not work with them. I think all of those extensions are now disabled on English Wikipedia.
"Revision-deletion" (which has the effect of removing a revision from the view of the reading public and users who are not administrators or equivalent) or complete page deletion is used for most copyright violations on English Wikipedia. Copyright violations should not be publicly available, since it does not meet even the most basic requirements of edits to the project; I have a hard time seeing why any project would leave them in the page history, since that is the equivalent of leaving them in the project.
"Suppression" is an even higher-level form of revision-deletion that removes the revision from the view of everyone except oversighters. It replaced the old "oversight" extension in 2009, and it is my understanding that all of the revisions that were historically removed using the oversight tool have now been returned to page history and suppressed. (There are some exceptions.) Suppression is used on English Wikipedia for most personal information, which can include anything listed in the WMF privacy policy.
There are variations in the use of the deletion/suppression tools: for example, since 2009 we have been able to either "delete" or "suppress" usernames and edit summaries that are highly inappropriate. The ability to "suppress" usernames is sometimes used when someone edits while logged out, not realizing their IP address will appear in the history.
I suspect that English Wikipedia has lower thresholds for both revision-deletion and suppression because it has historically been the project that is most abused, sometimes in ways that I'd be hesitant to publicly describe.
Risker/Anne (English Wikipedia oversighter)
On Mon, 14 Jan 2019 at 12:29, effe iets anders effeietsanders@gmail.com wrote:
Hi all,
This is one of these things that seems particularly hard to find, so I'd like to pick your collective brains on this:
What are the various policies across our little universe on using the 'hide version' functionality to hide historical versions of articles? I would especially appreciate it if you could elaborate a bit on how it's used in practice with regards to privacy violations (what is the threshold of private information that would justify hiding versions) and copyright violations (when do you actually hide the versions, rather than just remove it from the current version and leave it in the history).
Are there any global policies on this? I think not, but always better to double check :).
Best, Lodewijk _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Thanks for those questions.
Just as clarification, I'm talking about hiding revisions with the effect that the revisions are greyed out in the history, but that admins can still see their content. But I realize that oversight policies (the effect of oversight is stronger) may be more prominent, and that perhaps the ecosystem of different options should be considered in such a question :) .
Thanks Anne for clarifying terminology - I am mostly aware with the terminology we use in Dutch, so may mistranslate some things.
Lodewijk
On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 10:13 AM Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
I think one of the issues here is that we are not all using the same terminology.
"Hiding", on English Wikipedia, is generally reserved for some weird extensions that had to have special features built in because revision-deletion, deletion, and suppression did not work with them. I think all of those extensions are now disabled on English Wikipedia.
"Revision-deletion" (which has the effect of removing a revision from the view of the reading public and users who are not administrators or equivalent) or complete page deletion is used for most copyright violations on English Wikipedia. Copyright violations should not be publicly available, since it does not meet even the most basic requirements of edits to the project; I have a hard time seeing why any project would leave them in the page history, since that is the equivalent of leaving them in the project.
"Suppression" is an even higher-level form of revision-deletion that removes the revision from the view of everyone except oversighters. It replaced the old "oversight" extension in 2009, and it is my understanding that all of the revisions that were historically removed using the oversight tool have now been returned to page history and suppressed. (There are some exceptions.) Suppression is used on English Wikipedia for most personal information, which can include anything listed in the WMF privacy policy.
There are variations in the use of the deletion/suppression tools: for example, since 2009 we have been able to either "delete" or "suppress" usernames and edit summaries that are highly inappropriate. The ability to "suppress" usernames is sometimes used when someone edits while logged out, not realizing their IP address will appear in the history.
I suspect that English Wikipedia has lower thresholds for both revision-deletion and suppression because it has historically been the project that is most abused, sometimes in ways that I'd be hesitant to publicly describe.
Risker/Anne (English Wikipedia oversighter)
On Mon, 14 Jan 2019 at 12:29, effe iets anders effeietsanders@gmail.com wrote:
Hi all,
This is one of these things that seems particularly hard to find, so I'd like to pick your collective brains on this:
What are the various policies across our little universe on using the 'hide version' functionality to hide historical versions of articles? I would especially appreciate it if you could elaborate a bit on how it's used in practice with regards to privacy violations (what is the threshold of private information that would justify hiding versions) and copyright violations (when do you actually hide the versions, rather than just remove it from the current version and leave it in the history).
Are there any global policies on this? I think not, but always better to double check :).
Best, Lodewijk _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
At it.wiki: *copyvios are hidden as soon as they're caught. Also precautionary hiding is frequently used *gross insults in summaries and revs are hidden in a discretionary way *phone numbers and mild leaks are hidden *profanities are always hidden.
Suppression is very rarely used, also because abusefilter log details are private, thus reducing the need for suppressing abuselog details which can only be suppressed.
AFAIK that's the wider revdelete usage across major wikis and likely the most strict usage of suppression.
Vito
Il giorno lun 14 gen 2019 alle ore 19:20 effe iets anders < effeietsanders@gmail.com> ha scritto:
Thanks for those questions.
Just as clarification, I'm talking about hiding revisions with the effect that the revisions are greyed out in the history, but that admins can still see their content. But I realize that oversight policies (the effect of oversight is stronger) may be more prominent, and that perhaps the ecosystem of different options should be considered in such a question :) .
Thanks Anne for clarifying terminology - I am mostly aware with the terminology we use in Dutch, so may mistranslate some things.
Lodewijk
On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 10:13 AM Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
I think one of the issues here is that we are not all using the same terminology.
"Hiding", on English Wikipedia, is generally reserved for some weird extensions that had to have special features built in because revision-deletion, deletion, and suppression did not work with them. I think all of those extensions are now disabled on English Wikipedia.
"Revision-deletion" (which has the effect of removing a revision from the view of the reading public and users who are not administrators or equivalent) or complete page deletion is used for most copyright
violations
on English Wikipedia. Copyright violations should not be publicly available, since it does not meet even the most basic requirements of
edits
to the project; I have a hard time seeing why any project would leave
them
in the page history, since that is the equivalent of leaving them in the project.
"Suppression" is an even higher-level form of revision-deletion that removes the revision from the view of everyone except oversighters. It replaced the old "oversight" extension in 2009, and it is my
understanding
that all of the revisions that were historically removed using the oversight tool have now been returned to page history and suppressed. (There are some exceptions.) Suppression is used on English Wikipedia for most personal information, which can include anything listed in the WMF privacy policy.
There are variations in the use of the deletion/suppression tools: for example, since 2009 we have been able to either "delete" or "suppress" usernames and edit summaries that are highly inappropriate. The ability
to
"suppress" usernames is sometimes used when someone edits while logged
out,
not realizing their IP address will appear in the history.
I suspect that English Wikipedia has lower thresholds for both revision-deletion and suppression because it has historically been the project that is most abused, sometimes in ways that I'd be hesitant to publicly describe.
Risker/Anne (English Wikipedia oversighter)
On Mon, 14 Jan 2019 at 12:29, effe iets anders <effeietsanders@gmail.com
wrote:
Hi all,
This is one of these things that seems particularly hard to find, so I'd like to pick your collective brains on this:
What are the various policies across our little universe on using the 'hide version' functionality to hide historical versions of articles? I would especially appreciate it if you could elaborate a bit on how it's used
in
practice with regards to privacy violations (what is the threshold of private information that would justify hiding versions) and copyright violations (when do you actually hide the versions, rather than just remove it from the current version and leave it in the history).
Are there any global policies on this? I think not, but always better to double check :).
Best, Lodewijk _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Hi Lodewijk -
I don't think you're mis-translating; I think that there's just a different understanding of the terms between projects. Most other projects didn't get saddled with the extensions that used the actual term "hiding" that English Wikipedia had, so wouldn't have had a reason to use the more precise terminology that is used there.
It appears that when you are speaking of "hiding", you are referring to revision-deletion. From that perspective, revision-deletion or page deletion is used on English Wikipedia for almost all copyright violations. The enwiki policy is here: < https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Revision_deletion#Criteria_for_redac...
Risker/Anne
On Mon, 14 Jan 2019 at 13:20, effe iets anders effeietsanders@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks for those questions.
Just as clarification, I'm talking about hiding revisions with the effect that the revisions are greyed out in the history, but that admins can still see their content. But I realize that oversight policies (the effect of oversight is stronger) may be more prominent, and that perhaps the ecosystem of different options should be considered in such a question :) .
Thanks Anne for clarifying terminology - I am mostly aware with the terminology we use in Dutch, so may mistranslate some things.
Lodewijk
On Mon, Jan 14, 2019 at 10:13 AM Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
I think one of the issues here is that we are not all using the same terminology.
"Hiding", on English Wikipedia, is generally reserved for some weird extensions that had to have special features built in because revision-deletion, deletion, and suppression did not work with them. I think all of those extensions are now disabled on English Wikipedia.
"Revision-deletion" (which has the effect of removing a revision from the view of the reading public and users who are not administrators or equivalent) or complete page deletion is used for most copyright violations on English Wikipedia. Copyright violations should not be publicly available, since it does not meet even the most basic requirements of edits to the project; I have a hard time seeing why any project would leave them in the page history, since that is the equivalent of leaving them in the project.
"Suppression" is an even higher-level form of revision-deletion that removes the revision from the view of everyone except oversighters. It replaced the old "oversight" extension in 2009, and it is my understanding that all of the revisions that were historically removed using the oversight tool have now been returned to page history and suppressed. (There are some exceptions.) Suppression is used on English Wikipedia for most personal information, which can include anything listed in the WMF privacy policy.
There are variations in the use of the deletion/suppression tools: for example, since 2009 we have been able to either "delete" or "suppress" usernames and edit summaries that are highly inappropriate. The ability to "suppress" usernames is sometimes used when someone edits while logged out, not realizing their IP address will appear in the history.
I suspect that English Wikipedia has lower thresholds for both revision-deletion and suppression because it has historically been the project that is most abused, sometimes in ways that I'd be hesitant to publicly describe.
Risker/Anne (English Wikipedia oversighter)
On Mon, 14 Jan 2019 at 12:29, effe iets anders effeietsanders@gmail.com wrote:
Hi all,
This is one of these things that seems particularly hard to find, so I'd like to pick your collective brains on this:
What are the various policies across our little universe on using the 'hide version' functionality to hide historical versions of articles? I would especially appreciate it if you could elaborate a bit on how it's used in practice with regards to privacy violations (what is the threshold of private information that would justify hiding versions) and copyright violations (when do you actually hide the versions, rather than just remove it from the current version and leave it in the history).
Are there any global policies on this? I think not, but always better to double check :).
Best, Lodewijk _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org