And while the people who were on the private group to explore the setting up of the council have demanded public explanations, they haven't themselves gone first and revealed what they presented to the board, or how their proposal was prepared, what conflicting views were balanced and how.
Somehow the situation reminds me of a poker game with both players asking the other guy to show their cards first.
Yours Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
****** I suppose that's directed at least in part at me, since I wrote the petition and was one of the names presented for PVC.
On 22 April I participated at the Wikipedia Weekly and answered questions about my ideas for PVC. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikipediaWeekly/Episode46
Also, on 27 April and 28 April I blogged about these matters. http://durova.blogspot.com/
And I want to make this explicit, since apparently it wasn't already suffiicently clear: the petition was undertaken on my own initiative, without input from any other PVC person. I was hearing discontent about the restructuring from other people who had nothing to do with PVC, and I regard PVC as minimally relevant to the petition. And I was peripheral to the PVC proposal.
It's always a danger with this sort of thing that someone will interpolate dastardly motives where none exist.
-Durova
On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 11:46 AM, Durova nadezhda.durova@gmail.com wrote:
And while the people who were on the private group to explore the setting up of the council have demanded public explanations, they haven't themselves gone first and revealed what they presented to the board, or how their proposal was prepared, what conflicting views were balanced and how.
Somehow the situation reminds me of a poker game with both players asking the other guy to show their cards first.
Yours Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
I suppose that's directed at least in part at me, since I wrote the petition and was one of the names presented for PVC.
Actually, it is not. At all. I do not mention the petition at all, as anyone who can read English, can readily see.
It's always a danger with this sort of thing that someone will interpolate dastardly motives where none exist.
Also it is a danger that someone will think the world revolves around them, and every word is directed at them and just them.
Jussi-Ville Heiskanen, ~ [[User:Cimon Avaro]]
2008/4/29, Jussi-Ville Heiskanen cimonavaro@gmail.com:
On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 11:46 AM, Durova nadezhda.durova@gmail.com wrote:
And while the people who were on the private group to explore the setting up of the council have demanded public explanations, they haven't themselves gone first and revealed what they presented to the board, or how their proposal was prepared, what conflicting views were balanced and how.
Somehow the situation reminds me of a poker game with both players asking the other guy to show their cards first.
Yours Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
I suppose that's directed at least in part at me, since I wrote the petition and was one of the names presented for PVC.
Actually, it is not. At all. I do not mention the petition at all, as anyone who can read English, can readily see.
It's always a danger with this sort of thing that someone will interpolate dastardly motives where none exist.
Also it is a danger that someone will think the world revolves around them, and every word is directed at them and just them.
Jussi-Ville Heiskanen, ~ [[User:Cimon Avaro]]
Maybe you could elaborate then what you did mean, as apperently this is not clear. And please, abstain from personal attacks (everyone who is able to read english etc) thanks :) We all want the best, we just misunderstand and disagree with each other every now and then.
BR, Lodewijk
On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 12:41 PM, effe iets anders effeietsanders@gmail.com wrote:
2008/4/29, Jussi-Ville Heiskanen cimonavaro@gmail.com:
On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 11:46 AM, Durova nadezhda.durova@gmail.com wrote:
And while the people who were on the private group to explore the setting up of the council have demanded public explanations, they haven't themselves gone first and revealed what they presented to the board, or how their proposal was prepared, what conflicting views were balanced and how.
Somehow the situation reminds me of a poker game with both players asking the other guy to show their cards first.
Yours Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
I suppose that's directed at least in part at me, since I wrote the petition and was one of the names presented for PVC.
Actually, it is not. At all. I do not mention the petition at all, as anyone who can read English, can readily see.
It's always a danger with this sort of thing that someone will interpolate dastardly motives where none exist.
Also it is a danger that someone will think the world revolves around them, and every word is directed at them and just them.
Jussi-Ville Heiskanen, ~ [[User:Cimon Avaro]]
Maybe you could elaborate then what you did mean, as apperently this is not clear. And please, abstain from personal attacks (everyone who is able to read english etc) thanks :) We all want the best, we just misunderstand and disagree with each other every now and then.
Ahem. Quite the opposite from a personal attack, I was clarifying that I did not consider Durova to be one of those who has been less than forthcoming in this particular instance. I do apologize for the slight sarcasm, though sarcasm does not a personal attack make.
Though, since the petition has been brought up in this thread - and I repeat and underline, not by me in this instance - one thing that makes it very hard for me to see how people are expected to support such a petition, when they don't even know what the proposal that was officially (not Durovas personal one) presented to the board by the one group that was officially tasked with preparing a proposal, what that proposal contains.
We still don't know what that proposal entailed, and hence there is completely insufficient knowledge for anyone not in the know, to be able to figure out if the board really fell short, or was instead doing the right and responsible thing in not taking action, beyond encouraging people to go forward without an official blessing by the board.
Jussi-Ville Heiskanen, ~ [[User:Cimon Avaro]]
I am not sure why you keep asking this question after receiving the reaction from four members of the proposed PVC group that there was no proposal presented except for the resolution which is publicly available
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikicouncil/Resolution
Cheers Yaroslav
On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 12:41 PM, effe iets anders effeietsanders@gmail.com wrote:
2008/4/29, Jussi-Ville Heiskanen cimonavaro@gmail.com:
On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 11:46 AM, Durova nadezhda.durova@gmail.com
wrote:
And while the people who were on the private group to explore the setting up of the council have demanded public explanations, they haven't themselves gone first and revealed what they presented to the board, or how their proposal was prepared, what conflicting views were balanced and how.
Somehow the situation reminds me of a poker game with both players asking the other guy to show their cards first.
Yours Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
I suppose that's directed at least in part at me, since I wrote the
petition
and was one of the names presented for PVC.
Actually, it is not. At all. I do not mention the petition at all, as
anyone
who can read English, can readily see.
It's always a danger with this sort of thing that someone will interpolate dastardly motives where none exist.
Also it is a danger that someone will think the world revolves around them, and every word is directed at them and just them.
Jussi-Ville Heiskanen, ~ [[User:Cimon Avaro]]
Maybe you could elaborate then what you did mean, as apperently this is not clear. And please, abstain from personal attacks (everyone who is able to read english etc) thanks :) We all want the best, we just misunderstand and disagree with each other every now and then.
Ahem. Quite the opposite from a personal attack, I was clarifying that I did not consider Durova to be one of those who has been less than forthcoming in this particular instance. I do apologize for the slight sarcasm, though sarcasm does not a personal attack make.
Though, since the petition has been brought up in this thread - and I repeat and underline, not by me in this instance - one thing that makes it very hard for me to see how people are expected to support such a petition, when they don't even know what the proposal that was officially (not Durovas personal one) presented to the board by the one group that was officially tasked with preparing a proposal, what that proposal contains.
We still don't know what that proposal entailed, and hence there is completely insufficient knowledge for anyone not in the know, to be able to figure out if the board really fell short, or was instead doing the right and responsible thing in not taking action, beyond encouraging people to go forward without an official blessing by the board.
Jussi-Ville Heiskanen, ~ [[User:Cimon Avaro]]
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Yaroslav M. Blanter wrote:
I am not sure why you keep asking this question after receiving the reaction from four members of the proposed PVC group that there was no proposal presented except for the resolution which is publicly available
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikicouncil/Resolution
Cheers Yaroslav
I suspect one major cause is the way E-mail is threaded, propagates, and the way I prioritize the order I read the E-mail in. I had not read those clarifications before I asked that question.
Yours
Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
My apologies then. I think the question is answered by now.
Cheers, Yaroslav
Yaroslav M. Blanter wrote:
I am not sure why you keep asking this question after receiving the reaction from four members of the proposed PVC group that there was no proposal presented except for the resolution which is publicly available
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikicouncil/Resolution
Cheers Yaroslav
I suspect one major cause is the way E-mail is threaded, propagates, and the way I prioritize the order I read the E-mail in. I had not read those clarifications before I asked that question.
Yours
Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
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