As has already been explained on this list, many people do not have access to Facebook. If this is something germane and useful to a lot of people on this list, perhaps it would be appropriate to ask Jonathan to post it here. Risker/Anne On 21 February 2016 at 18:34, Anthony Cole &lt;ahcoleecu(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

On Feb 21, 2016, at 3:54 PM, Thyge &lt;ltl.privat(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: I really wonder why wikimedia discussions have migrated to FB. Are we applying for a grant?

People will have discussions at a location that is personally convenient for them. Unless you're going to reprogram human nature, I don't see that there's anything to be done about the resulting balkanisation of the discussion. Cheers, Craig On 22 February 2016 at 09:54, Thyge &lt;ltl.privat(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: https://www.facebook.com/groups/wikipediaweekly/permalink/960989863948845/ https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ?subject=unsubscribe> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

Hi all, it’s probably useful to paste in the “What for?” message for the Wikipedia Weekly Facebook group. Hopefully it will help clear things up. —- From: https://www.facebook.com/notes/wikipedia-weekly/introduction-to-the-ww-grou… This is a quick note about what goes on here in the Wikipedia Weekly Facebook group. Thanks for joining what has become a useful forum in the last few years, and especially in recent months. Perhaps a useful motto for this group is: "High signal, key voices, efficient volume." That's a label few would use to describe Wikimedia-L or on-wiki discussions, even though those are very necessary and key parts of the movement. In many ways, this is a meta-news group, pointing to the best and most interesting things happening in our community and the public. It's not meant to be a direct replacement for any venue that exists now. This group started informally as a lively community space in lieu of, or in reaction to, Wikipedia Weekly podcast episodes. Signpost, Wikimedia chapter folks, WMF comms team, bloggers or any concerned community members are welcome in the interest of productive and informative discussions about the movement. One of the key aspects is that this is a respectful and highly interactive space that, like it or not, is Facebook's main value. As for the public/private nature of what is said here: we probably don't have a great term for it. In some sense, it's like the open access vs TWL (The Wikipedia Library) argument – should the comments here be referenced (or given prominence) if it's firewalled behind a Facebook login. People can be expected to be quoted here, but not truly hyperlinked-to. Signpost, for example, has referenced discussions here on multiple occasions in its news stories. This group might get people to write opinions they wouldn't voice in other forums. I see that as a useful part of our communications ecosystem. Experiments like Discourse (https://discourse.wmflabs.org/) might be the answer to help moderate the noisy, disparate and acerbic social spaces in our movement, and I welcome it. For now, I like that this group is serving an unmet need, and I thank the folks here for making it engaged and meaningful. On Sun, Feb 21, 2016 at 7:26 PM, Risker &lt;risker.wp(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: unless discuss convenient have post to https://www.facebook.com/groups/wikipediaweekly/permalink/960989863948845/ ?subject=unsubscribe> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

One example of the shortcomings of emails as a medium for complex discussions is how this thread about postmortems continues to be diverted into discussions about Facebook, despite Pete's best efforts. At the end of the day, people will prefer tools that work well over tools that align philosophically. One can sabotage the development of tools that would both work well and uphold Wikimedia's values, but cannot prevent important discussions from moving to other venues (which will necessarily be a worse match for those values). There is a lesson there, although I'm afraid it will take some more time before we learn it.