(copied to foundation-l - please reply there)
On 19 Jul 2004 04:46:00 +0200, Erik Moeller erik_moeller@gmx.de wrote:
Tim-
Wikiquote now has specific-language subdomains. Instead of creating wikis for all 150 languages, I made a system where wikis are only created when they're wanted. To save time during maintenance operations, it should now be possible to delete unused Wiktionaries and even Wikipedias until they are required.
This may be a good time to rethink our approach to Meta. Currently there is just one big, messy Meta-Wiki, with neither particularly clear policies (although my CPOV draft attempts to remedy this to some extent) nor interlanguage links. Help texts are spread across the "MediaWiki User's Guide" and the Help: namespace, with non-English texts in the English language Help: space. On the other hand, as Mav keeps pointing out, we have no real community editable Wikimedia presence.
What sort of "Wikimedia presence" did you want there? Do the pages in the Wikimedia Foundation category not meet this? (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikimedia_Foundation)
How about a setup like this: de.wikimedia.org en.wikimedia.org fr.wikimedia.org ...
One point I raised yesterday on wikitech-l (yes, I was on the wrong list as well) is whether certain Foundation pages (such as the budget or the bylaws) will need to be marked as official in some way, and whether or not translations of those ought to be clearly marked as non-official.
If we split into sub-domains, it makes this easier to do, but if the translations are to be official, having 50+ recent changes for the board to check and approve makes this impractical.
This is more logical (Meta is not just about Wikipedia but about all Wikimedia projects), it allows us to use interlanguage links, to see RC only for the languages you are interested in, and to maintain the documentation separately for each language in the respective localized Help: namespace. It would encourage internationalization for things like project-wide votes.
Allowing the use of interlanguage isn't necessarily better than the current system on meta. By using templates, the links only need be updated in one place when a new language is added. Normal interlanguage links would need to be updated on every sub-domain.
The major downside: In the present system, you would have to create an account for each edition of Meta. So it might make sense to postpone this until Single Sign-On is implemented.
In any case, I think there should be no separate Meta-Wiki and Wikimedia Foundation wiki - they should be the same thing.
Thoughts?
If the Foundation wiki and Meta are not separated, we have less control over it, as any sysop will be able to edit it, rather than only those people who can be trusted with pages that allow HTML, such as the fundraising page. Moving it to a separate wiki would allow for different permissions to be set up, and for the use of full HTML; something which mav is particularly keen to have.
Angela.
Regards,
Erik
Angela-
What sort of "Wikimedia presence" did you want there? Do the pages in the Wikimedia Foundation category not meet this? (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikimedia_Foundation)
For ourselves, yes. For the outside world, we need something that the average journalist can navigate. Every Wikimedia chapter will want to have a nice URL to give to people for signing up, donating ...
de.wikimedia.org, en.wikimedia.org etc. would be consistent with the wikipedia.org setup. The current community directory style content could be put on a separate page like it is done for the Wikipedia Main Page. The actual Wikimedia entry page would mostly contain - links to all projects - donation form - membership application form (for chapters) - contact information
Keep it simple and stupid. HTML is definitely needed for this as well as some backend processing scripts.
If we split into sub-domains, it makes this easier to do, but if the translations are to be official, having 50+ recent changes for the board to check and approve makes this impractical.
True, but the current mixed RC isn't scalable without filtering. So whether you want filtering for the combined Meta, or synthesis-on-demand for the split up Meta, we need to add this type of functionality in any case. In lieu of a nice solution, a page "Pages waiting for board approval" on en and maybe fr would be sufficient.
Allowing the use of interlanguage isn't necessarily better than the current system on meta. By using templates, the links only need be updated in one place when a new language is added. Normal interlanguage links would need to be updated on every sub-domain.
This is essentially a hack. It's better to fix the interlanguage link system (by using a shared link table) than to use a custom solution which people have to learn for a single wiki and which doesn't work anywhere else. Consistency is good - currently Meta is a special case and that creates a lot of problems (like the Help: namespace not being localizable, interlanguage links not in the same place as everywhere else, etc.).
If the Foundation wiki and Meta are not separated, we have less control over it, as any sysop will be able to edit it
MediaWiki already supports limited rights management (write access to certain pages can be limited to one user group, e.g. "Wikimedia Editors"). We could relatively easily extend this to allow for selectively enabling HTML support. Limiting edit rights should be kept to an absolute minimum for obvious reasons.
Regards,
Erik
wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org