Hello,
I found this link *http://destour.org *on the Wikipedia-ar mailing list, and thought it might interest people who don't speak Arabic as well. This is a Wiki inviting Tunisian citizens to write the country's new constitution the Wiki way. The site is entirely in Arabic and it includes a constitution draft, which the Tunisian public is supposed to change and amend collaboratively. According to their "about", this is an initiative of the Tunisian Internet Association (/Jam'iyat Tunis lil-Internet/), which is a non-official non-profit Tunisian organization. According to them, the project is run by volunteers.
To be honest, I don't give much chance to this initiative, but it is an interesting development nonetheless. As far as I remember, Florence told me about similar initiative in France by the French government, but it seems to be the first of its kind in the Arab world. Perhaps the close cultural ties between Tunisia and France played a role here, but this is nothing more than a speculation.
Dror K
Well, as far as I see, it seems to be a charming, naïf initiative, but very interesting anyway. Destour has a local and not easy to translate meaning. I think it means both a political party involved in Tunis independence and also an aspirtation to become a constitutional country. I don't really know if this initiative is lead by members or supporters of the former Destourist Socialist Party.
Anyway, the draft seems to be like an old constitutional text shown in their wiki in order to take it as an starting point. If I were to launch such an idea, I also shall put some discussion about political, constitutional and comparative law, and not just a draft. This worries me a little bit.
But the statement that the purpose of this initiative is *exerting your citicenship* by taking part in the new constitution discussion and developement is a very inspirating one.
2011/4/2 Dror Kamir dqamir@bezeqint.net
Hello,
I found this link *http://destour.org *on the Wikipedia-ar mailing list, and thought it might interest people who don't speak Arabic as well. This is a Wiki inviting Tunisian citizens to write the country's new constitution the Wiki way. The site is entirely in Arabic and it includes a constitution draft, which the Tunisian public is supposed to change and amend collaboratively. According to their "about", this is an initiative of the Tunisian Internet Association (/Jam'iyat Tunis lil-Internet/), which is a non-official non-profit Tunisian organization. According to them, the project is run by volunteers.
To be honest, I don't give much chance to this initiative, but it is an interesting development nonetheless. As far as I remember, Florence told me about similar initiative in France by the French government, but it seems to be the first of its kind in the Arab world. Perhaps the close cultural ties between Tunisia and France played a role here, but this is nothing more than a speculation.
Dror K
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Hello,
I found this link *http://destour.org *on the Wikipedia-ar mailing list, and thought it might interest people who don't speak Arabic as well. This is a Wiki inviting Tunisian citizens to write the country's new constitution the Wiki way. The site is entirely in Arabic and it includes a constitution draft, which the Tunisian public is supposed to change and amend collaboratively. According to their "about", this is an initiative of the Tunisian Internet Association (/Jam'iyat Tunis lil-Internet/), which is a non-official non-profit Tunisian organization. According to them, the project is run by volunteers.
To be honest, I don't give much chance to this initiative, but it is an interesting development nonetheless. As far as I remember, Florence told me about similar initiative in France by the French government, but it seems to be the first of its kind in the Arab world. Perhaps the close cultural ties between Tunisia and France played a role here, but this is nothing more than a speculation.
Dror K
If everyone in Tunisia had good internet access, knew how to edit a wiki, and had experience doing so that would be a no-brainer. As it is, a mechanism like that disenfranchises 99.999% of the population. Good goal to work for though.
Fred
In Modern Standard Arabic, the word "destour" or "dustur" denotes "constitution". I don't think there is double meaning intended here. Tunisia is one of the more modernized countries in the Arab world and people there have relatively good connection to the Internet. I don't know the exact numbers. And yet I agree that this is somewhat a naive initiative if only because it assumes developed Internet culture in a society where many people are not too acquainted with the Web.
Dror K
בתאריך 02/04/11 18:58, ציטוט Fred Bauder:
Hello,
I found this link *http://destour.org *on the Wikipedia-ar mailing list, and thought it might interest people who don't speak Arabic as well. This is a Wiki inviting Tunisian citizens to write the country's new constitution the Wiki way. The site is entirely in Arabic and it includes a constitution draft, which the Tunisian public is supposed to change and amend collaboratively. According to their "about", this is an initiative of the Tunisian Internet Association (/Jam'iyat Tunis lil-Internet/), which is a non-official non-profit Tunisian organization. According to them, the project is run by volunteers.
To be honest, I don't give much chance to this initiative, but it is an interesting development nonetheless. As far as I remember, Florence told me about similar initiative in France by the French government, but it seems to be the first of its kind in the Arab world. Perhaps the close cultural ties between Tunisia and France played a role here, but this is nothing more than a speculation.
Dror K
If everyone in Tunisia had good internet access, knew how to edit a wiki, and had experience doing so that would be a no-brainer. As it is, a mechanism like that disenfranchises 99.999% of the population. Good goal to work for though.
Fred
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Well, I lived the spanish transition [1]. I don't know if it is the same thing, but, let me say that it was a very confusing time. People thought sometimes that constitution must be done by teachers in primary schools. That counciousness of the individual role in public things, although naive, was a very good thing.
I''m very interested because this topic has been held in the whole arabic wikipedia mailing list. In my opinion, one of the greatest scholars and expertised in constitutional law, and also born in Morocco, is this guy [2]. I think is the best person to contact with. And I know that he is very engaged with NGO movements.
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_transition_to_democracy [2] http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_Sosa_Wagner
On 04/02/11 8:58 AM, Fred Bauder wrote:
I found this link *http://destour.org *on the Wikipedia-ar mailing list, and thought it might interest people who don't speak Arabic as well. This is a Wiki inviting Tunisian citizens to write the country's new constitution the Wiki way. The site is entirely in Arabic and it includes a constitution draft, which the Tunisian public is supposed to change and amend collaboratively. According to their "about", this is an initiative of the Tunisian Internet Association (/Jam'iyat Tunis lil-Internet/), which is a non-official non-profit Tunisian organization. According to them, the project is run by volunteers.
To be honest, I don't give much chance to this initiative, but it is an interesting development nonetheless. As far as I remember, Florence told me about similar initiative in France by the French government, but it seems to be the first of its kind in the Arab world. Perhaps the close cultural ties between Tunisia and France played a role here, but this is nothing more than a speculation.
If everyone in Tunisia had good internet access, knew how to edit a wiki, and had experience doing so that would be a no-brainer. As it is, a mechanism like that disenfranchises 99.999% of the population. Good goal to work for though.
I don't expect that this sort of initiative will be a complete success even with full internet access for everyone. We know from experience that getting everybody to agree to anything, even to no-brainers, on line is not an easy task. If the Internet is to be a force in democratising political institutions for the future it needs to start somewhere. It's an improvement over the Internet as a massive bitching forum. At this time recognizing where strong agreement exists, and isolating the issues that need work will be enough to label this effort a success. There are too many preconceptions about the meaning of democracy for us to expect more.
Ray
On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 6:27 PM, Ray Saintonge saintonge@telus.net wrote:
I don't expect that this sort of initiative will be a complete success even with full internet access for everyone. We know from experience that getting everybody to agree to anything, even to no-brainers, on line is not an easy task. If the Internet is to be a force in democratising political institutions for the future it needs to start somewhere. It's an improvement over the Internet as a massive bitching forum. At this time recognizing where strong agreement exists, and isolating the issues that need work will be enough to label this effort a success. There are too many preconceptions about the meaning of democracy for us to expect more.
In Egypt, I saw a wiki or two setup for the same purpose, but what seemed to work well is the use of Google Moderator:
http://www.google.com/moderator/?hl=ar#15/e=581e0&t=581e0.40&f=581e0...
-Katie
Ray
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In Egypt, I saw a wiki or two setup for the same purpose, but what seemed to work well is the use of Google Moderator:
http://www.google.com/moderator/?hl=ar#15/e=581e0&t=581e0.40&f=581e0...
-Katie
Actually IMHO the reason Google moderator worked is that it was advertised and actively used by Wael Ghonim and the other admins of the Facebook group that sparked the revolution. This group has amassed a hugh following (over 1 million subscribers last time I checked) and has massive reach. Of course, I am not sure if they chose a wiki instead it would have been a good idea, I can't imagine the majority of people willing to participate also willing to learn wiki syntax and protocol.
In Egypt, I saw a wiki or two setup for the same purpose, but what seemed to work well is the use of Google Moderator:
http://www.google.com/moderator/?hl=ar#15/e=581e0&t=581e0.40&f=581e0...
-Katie
Actually IMHO the reason Google moderator worked is that it was advertised and actively used by Wael Ghonim and the other admins of the Facebook group that sparked the revolution. This group has amassed a hugh following (over 1 million subscribers last time I checked) and has massive reach. Of course, I am not sure if they chose a wiki instead it would have been a good idea, I can't imagine the majority of people willing to participate also willing to learn wiki syntax and protocol.
-- Best Regards, Muhammad Yahia
Yes, mass participation is the key element, the vehicle used is almost irrelevant. Motivated people can learn anything, indeed, do anything.
Fred
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