wikimedia-l,
On arrival I was asked to describe a few leadership principles and practices I live out. In my response I included a statement about courage, honesty, and integrity [1]. These principles are not effective without applying them. To succeed, one must transfer these leadership principles, to a vast number of people, enabling them to be more successful.
I’ve found the best method to teach others is to demonstrate [3].
Effective leaders demonstrate correct behavior and they demonstrate leadership by acting with courage, honesty, and integrity. This is what I expect from myself and from those around me who share our mission. Here’s a quote from Ernesto 'Che’ Guevara, a person who's ability to lead is unquestionable:
'One of the great educational techniques is example. Therefore, the chiefs must constantly offer the example of a pure and devoted life. Promotion of the soldier should be based on valor, capacity, and a spirit of sacrifice; whoever does not have these qualities in high degree ought not to have responsible assignments, since he will cause unfortunate accidents at any moment.' —Che Guevara, Guerrilla Warfare (1960) p. 90 [4].
We are not soldiers, but we are revolutionaries. And as revolutionaries supporting the Wikimedia mission we must consistently demonstrate the behaviors that maximize our ability to build the software required to fulfill our mission. This is important because our users and contributors are watching us as leaders. They are watching our demonstration. And if we are to support them we must treat them with respect. If we don't, they will leave.
Che's policy when asking for help from their community was to always be courteous, considerate, and just. He emphasized that food, supplies, and help from the community should be exchanged for fair compensation. Always. He continues:
'The conduct of the guerrilla fighter will be subject to judgment whenever he approaches a house to ask for something. The inhabitants will draw favorable or unfavorable conclusions about the guerrilla band according to the manner in which any service or food or other necessity is solicited and the methods used to get what is wanted. The explanation by the chief should be detailed about these problems, emphasizing their importance; he should also teach by example.'
Call to action: Let's renew our commitment to treat everyone with respect and dignity. Let's lead by example by choosing our words carefully with only positive intentions. Open source requires a healthy community, and respectful interactions are a sign of a healthy community. I pledge to treat everyone with respect and use respectful and inclusive language. Please join me.
While I'm normally on IRC all the time, this last week has been special as I'm migrating machines and devices. Beginning this week I will have a client on 24-7; however, I will be online for a dedicated IRC Office Hour on Oct 9, 1-2pm PDT. I would love to hear your thoughts here or in IRC.
All my best,
Damon VPE, Wikimedia Foundation
[1] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WMF_Metrics_and_activities_meetings/2014-10 [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactic_%28method%29 [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demonstration_%28teaching%29 [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerrilla_Warfare_%28book%29
I'll join you. Pledge made. /a
On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 1:43 PM, Damon Sicore dsicore@wikimedia.org wrote:
wikimedia-l,
On arrival I was asked to describe a few leadership principles and practices I live out. In my response I included a statement about courage, honesty, and integrity [1]. These principles are not effective without applying them. To succeed, one must transfer these leadership principles, to a vast number of people, enabling them to be more successful.
I’ve found the best method to teach others is to demonstrate [3].
Effective leaders demonstrate correct behavior and they demonstrate leadership by acting with courage, honesty, and integrity. This is what I expect from myself and from those around me who share our mission. Here’s a quote from Ernesto 'Che’ Guevara, a person who's ability to lead is unquestionable:
'One of the great educational techniques is example. Therefore, the chiefs must constantly offer the example of a pure and devoted life. Promotion of the soldier should be based on valor, capacity, and a spirit of sacrifice; whoever does not have these qualities in high degree ought not to have responsible assignments, since he will cause unfortunate accidents at any moment.' —Che Guevara, Guerrilla Warfare (1960) p. 90 [4].
We are not soldiers, but we are revolutionaries. And as revolutionaries supporting the Wikimedia mission we must consistently demonstrate the behaviors that maximize our ability to build the software required to fulfill our mission. This is important because our users and contributors are watching us as leaders. They are watching our demonstration. And if we are to support them we must treat them with respect. If we don't, they will leave.
Che's policy when asking for help from their community was to always be courteous, considerate, and just. He emphasized that food, supplies, and help from the community should be exchanged for fair compensation. Always. He continues:
'The conduct of the guerrilla fighter will be subject to judgment whenever he approaches a house to ask for something. The inhabitants will draw favorable or unfavorable conclusions about the guerrilla band according to the manner in which any service or food or other necessity is solicited and the methods used to get what is wanted. The explanation by the chief should be detailed about these problems, emphasizing their importance; he should also teach by example.'
Call to action: Let's renew our commitment to treat everyone with respect and dignity. Let's lead by example by choosing our words carefully with only positive intentions. Open source requires a healthy community, and respectful interactions are a sign of a healthy community. I pledge to treat everyone with respect and use respectful and inclusive language. Please join me.
While I'm normally on IRC all the time, this last week has been special as I'm migrating machines and devices. Beginning this week I will have a client on 24-7; however, I will be online for a dedicated IRC Office Hour on Oct 9, 1-2pm PDT. I would love to hear your thoughts here or in IRC.
All my best,
Damon VPE, Wikimedia Foundation
[1] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WMF_Metrics_and_activities_meetings/2014-10 [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactic_%28method%29 [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demonstration_%28teaching%29 [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerrilla_Warfare_%28book%29 _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Hi Damon and welcome!
I appreciate your call to action to treat everyone with respect and dignity. And your desire to be inclusive!
"Call to action: Let's renew our commitment to treat everyone with respect and dignity. Let's lead by example by choosing our words carefully with only positive intentions. Open source requires a healthy community, and respectful interactions are a sign of a healthy community. I pledge to treat everyone with respect and use respectful and inclusive language. Please join me." --Damon Sicore
Sydney Poore User:FloNight Wikipedian in Residence at Cochrane Collaboration.
Sydney Poore User:FloNight Wikipedian in Residence at Cochrane Collaboration
On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 4:43 PM, Damon Sicore dsicore@wikimedia.org wrote:
wikimedia-l,
On arrival I was asked to describe a few leadership principles and practices I live out. In my response I included a statement about courage, honesty, and integrity [1]. These principles are not effective without applying them. To succeed, one must transfer these leadership principles, to a vast number of people, enabling them to be more successful.
I’ve found the best method to teach others is to demonstrate [3].
Effective leaders demonstrate correct behavior and they demonstrate leadership by acting with courage, honesty, and integrity. This is what I expect from myself and from those around me who share our mission. Here’s a quote from Ernesto 'Che’ Guevara, a person who's ability to lead is unquestionable:
'One of the great educational techniques is example. Therefore, the chiefs must constantly offer the example of a pure and devoted life. Promotion of the soldier should be based on valor, capacity, and a spirit of sacrifice; whoever does not have these qualities in high degree ought not to have responsible assignments, since he will cause unfortunate accidents at any moment.' —Che Guevara, Guerrilla Warfare (1960) p. 90 [4].
We are not soldiers, but we are revolutionaries. And as revolutionaries supporting the Wikimedia mission we must consistently demonstrate the behaviors that maximize our ability to build the software required to fulfill our mission. This is important because our users and contributors are watching us as leaders. They are watching our demonstration. And if we are to support them we must treat them with respect. If we don't, they will leave.
Che's policy when asking for help from their community was to always be courteous, considerate, and just. He emphasized that food, supplies, and help from the community should be exchanged for fair compensation. Always. He continues:
'The conduct of the guerrilla fighter will be subject to judgment whenever he approaches a house to ask for something. The inhabitants will draw favorable or unfavorable conclusions about the guerrilla band according to the manner in which any service or food or other necessity is solicited and the methods used to get what is wanted. The explanation by the chief should be detailed about these problems, emphasizing their importance; he should also teach by example.'
Call to action: Let's renew our commitment to treat everyone with respect and dignity. Let's lead by example by choosing our words carefully with only positive intentions. Open source requires a healthy community, and respectful interactions are a sign of a healthy community. I pledge to treat everyone with respect and use respectful and inclusive language. Please join me.
While I'm normally on IRC all the time, this last week has been special as I'm migrating machines and devices. Beginning this week I will have a client on 24-7; however, I will be online for a dedicated IRC Office Hour on Oct 9, 1-2pm PDT. I would love to hear your thoughts here or in IRC.
All my best,
Damon VPE, Wikimedia Foundation
[1] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WMF_Metrics_and_activities_meetings/2014-10 [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactic_%28method%29 [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demonstration_%28teaching%29 [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerrilla_Warfare_%28book%29 _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Thank you Damon! This is indeed a powerful message and I am looking forward to working with you.
Emily Blanchard Talent Acquisition Team Wikimedia Foundation eblanchard@wikimedia. eblanchard@gmail.comorg Follow us on Twitter @wikimediaatwork http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Home Become a Contributor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Teahouse Join Us: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Work_with_us Developers Join the Fun: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Communication
*Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share inthe sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!*
On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 2:02 PM, Sydney Poore sydney.poore@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Damon and welcome!
I appreciate your call to action to treat everyone with respect and dignity. And your desire to be inclusive!
"Call to action: Let's renew our commitment to treat everyone with respect and dignity. Let's lead by example by choosing our words carefully with only positive intentions. Open source requires a healthy community, and respectful interactions are a sign of a healthy community. I pledge to treat everyone with respect and use respectful and inclusive language. Please join me." --Damon Sicore
Sydney Poore User:FloNight Wikipedian in Residence at Cochrane Collaboration.
Sydney Poore User:FloNight Wikipedian in Residence at Cochrane Collaboration
On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 4:43 PM, Damon Sicore dsicore@wikimedia.org wrote:
wikimedia-l,
On arrival I was asked to describe a few leadership principles and practices I live out. In my response I included a statement about
courage,
honesty, and integrity [1]. These principles are not effective without applying them. To succeed, one must transfer these leadership
principles,
to a vast number of people, enabling them to be more successful.
I’ve found the best method to teach others is to demonstrate [3].
Effective leaders demonstrate correct behavior and they demonstrate leadership by acting with courage, honesty, and integrity. This is what
I
expect from myself and from those around me who share our mission.
Here’s
a quote from Ernesto 'Che’ Guevara, a person who's ability to lead is unquestionable:
'One of the great educational techniques is example. Therefore, the
chiefs
must constantly offer the example of a pure and devoted life. Promotion
of
the soldier should be based on valor, capacity, and a spirit of
sacrifice;
whoever does not have these qualities in high degree ought not to have responsible assignments, since he will cause unfortunate accidents at any moment.' —Che Guevara, Guerrilla Warfare (1960) p. 90 [4].
We are not soldiers, but we are revolutionaries. And as revolutionaries supporting the Wikimedia mission we must consistently demonstrate the behaviors that maximize our ability to build the software required to fulfill our mission. This is important because our users and
contributors
are watching us as leaders. They are watching our demonstration. And if we are to support them we must treat them with respect. If we don't,
they
will leave.
Che's policy when asking for help from their community was to always be courteous, considerate, and just. He emphasized that food, supplies, and help from the community should be exchanged for fair compensation. Always. He continues:
'The conduct of the guerrilla fighter will be subject to judgment
whenever
he approaches a house to ask for something. The inhabitants will draw favorable or unfavorable conclusions about the guerrilla band according
to
the manner in which any service or food or other necessity is solicited
and
the methods used to get what is wanted. The explanation by the chief should be detailed about these problems, emphasizing their importance;
he
should also teach by example.'
Call to action: Let's renew our commitment to treat everyone with
respect
and dignity. Let's lead by example by choosing our words carefully with only positive intentions. Open source requires a healthy community, and respectful interactions are a sign of a healthy community. I pledge to treat everyone with respect and use respectful and inclusive language. Please join me.
While I'm normally on IRC all the time, this last week has been special
as
I'm migrating machines and devices. Beginning this week I will have a client on 24-7; however, I will be online for a dedicated IRC Office Hour on Oct 9, 1-2pm PDT. I would love to hear your thoughts here or in IRC.
All my best,
Damon VPE, Wikimedia Foundation
[1]
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WMF_Metrics_and_activities_meetings/2014-10
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactic_%28method%29 [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demonstration_%28teaching%29 [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerrilla_Warfare_%28book%29 _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
From Bay Area hipsters to revolutionaries in less than five months. That's
the change!
Welcome! On Oct 6, 2014 10:43 PM, "Damon Sicore" dsicore@wikimedia.org wrote:
wikimedia-l,
On arrival I was asked to describe a few leadership principles and practices I live out. In my response I included a statement about courage, honesty, and integrity [1]. These principles are not effective without applying them. To succeed, one must transfer these leadership principles, to a vast number of people, enabling them to be more successful.
I’ve found the best method to teach others is to demonstrate [3].
Effective leaders demonstrate correct behavior and they demonstrate leadership by acting with courage, honesty, and integrity. This is what I expect from myself and from those around me who share our mission. Here’s a quote from Ernesto 'Che’ Guevara, a person who's ability to lead is unquestionable:
'One of the great educational techniques is example. Therefore, the chiefs must constantly offer the example of a pure and devoted life. Promotion of the soldier should be based on valor, capacity, and a spirit of sacrifice; whoever does not have these qualities in high degree ought not to have responsible assignments, since he will cause unfortunate accidents at any moment.' —Che Guevara, Guerrilla Warfare (1960) p. 90 [4].
We are not soldiers, but we are revolutionaries. And as revolutionaries supporting the Wikimedia mission we must consistently demonstrate the behaviors that maximize our ability to build the software required to fulfill our mission. This is important because our users and contributors are watching us as leaders. They are watching our demonstration. And if we are to support them we must treat them with respect. If we don't, they will leave.
Che's policy when asking for help from their community was to always be courteous, considerate, and just. He emphasized that food, supplies, and help from the community should be exchanged for fair compensation. Always. He continues:
'The conduct of the guerrilla fighter will be subject to judgment whenever he approaches a house to ask for something. The inhabitants will draw favorable or unfavorable conclusions about the guerrilla band according to the manner in which any service or food or other necessity is solicited and the methods used to get what is wanted. The explanation by the chief should be detailed about these problems, emphasizing their importance; he should also teach by example.'
Call to action: Let's renew our commitment to treat everyone with respect and dignity. Let's lead by example by choosing our words carefully with only positive intentions. Open source requires a healthy community, and respectful interactions are a sign of a healthy community. I pledge to treat everyone with respect and use respectful and inclusive language. Please join me.
While I'm normally on IRC all the time, this last week has been special as I'm migrating machines and devices. Beginning this week I will have a client on 24-7; however, I will be online for a dedicated IRC Office Hour on Oct 9, 1-2pm PDT. I would love to hear your thoughts here or in IRC.
All my best,
Damon VPE, Wikimedia Foundation
[1] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WMF_Metrics_and_activities_meetings/2014-10 [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactic_%28method%29 [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demonstration_%28teaching%29 [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerrilla_Warfare_%28book%29 _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Hear, hear! Thank you for this intention, Damon. I'm in!
-rachel
On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 1:43 PM, Damon Sicore dsicore@wikimedia.org wrote:
wikimedia-l,
On arrival I was asked to describe a few leadership principles and practices I live out. In my response I included a statement about courage, honesty, and integrity [1]. These principles are not effective without applying them. To succeed, one must transfer these leadership principles, to a vast number of people, enabling them to be more successful.
I’ve found the best method to teach others is to demonstrate [3].
Effective leaders demonstrate correct behavior and they demonstrate leadership by acting with courage, honesty, and integrity. This is what I expect from myself and from those around me who share our mission. Here’s a quote from Ernesto 'Che’ Guevara, a person who's ability to lead is unquestionable:
'One of the great educational techniques is example. Therefore, the chiefs must constantly offer the example of a pure and devoted life. Promotion of the soldier should be based on valor, capacity, and a spirit of sacrifice; whoever does not have these qualities in high degree ought not to have responsible assignments, since he will cause unfortunate accidents at any moment.' —Che Guevara, Guerrilla Warfare (1960) p. 90 [4].
We are not soldiers, but we are revolutionaries. And as revolutionaries supporting the Wikimedia mission we must consistently demonstrate the behaviors that maximize our ability to build the software required to fulfill our mission. This is important because our users and contributors are watching us as leaders. They are watching our demonstration. And if we are to support them we must treat them with respect. If we don't, they will leave.
Che's policy when asking for help from their community was to always be courteous, considerate, and just. He emphasized that food, supplies, and help from the community should be exchanged for fair compensation. Always. He continues:
'The conduct of the guerrilla fighter will be subject to judgment whenever he approaches a house to ask for something. The inhabitants will draw favorable or unfavorable conclusions about the guerrilla band according to the manner in which any service or food or other necessity is solicited and the methods used to get what is wanted. The explanation by the chief should be detailed about these problems, emphasizing their importance; he should also teach by example.'
Call to action: Let's renew our commitment to treat everyone with respect and dignity. Let's lead by example by choosing our words carefully with only positive intentions. Open source requires a healthy community, and respectful interactions are a sign of a healthy community. I pledge to treat everyone with respect and use respectful and inclusive language. Please join me.
While I'm normally on IRC all the time, this last week has been special as I'm migrating machines and devices. Beginning this week I will have a client on 24-7; however, I will be online for a dedicated IRC Office Hour on Oct 9, 1-2pm PDT. I would love to hear your thoughts here or in IRC.
All my best,
Damon VPE, Wikimedia Foundation
[1] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WMF_Metrics_and_activities_meetings/2014-10 [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactic_%28method%29 [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demonstration_%28teaching%29 [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerrilla_Warfare_%28book%29 _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Hello and welcome, Damon.
One thing I've long appreciated about the Wikimedia movement is that it is not political, and indeed the flagship project is explicitly neutral. This distinction has become a little more nuanced as the movement has taken political positions that are congruent with the overall mission, but I think it remains the case that Wikimedians have been able to avoid entanglements with general political issues. This has been especially the case with most deeply controversial and current political debates.
So while I agree with your sentiment, that leaders must model values such as courage and integrity, I think it would have been better expressed without the ringing endorsement of Che Guevara. As you say, we should choose our words carefully and ensure that our language is positive and inclusive. This is obviously an area where we can all make progress.
~Nathan
The community has heard a lot from the WMF about courage, honesty, integrity and leadership – and rather too much of the latter of late: let's remember that the Wikimedia Foundation's values[1] speak of *community-led* projects.
---o0o---
Our community is our biggest asset
We are a community-based organization. We must operate with a mix of staff members, and of volunteers, working together to achieve our mission.
We support community-led collaborative projects, and must respect the work and the ideas of our community. We must listen and take into account our communities in any decisions taken to achieve our mission.
---o0o---
Instead of peacock statements about courage, integrity etc., it would make a nice change to hear about competence and ability from the WMF, and to see *that* demonstrated, along with a readiness to listen and serve rather than *lead*.
[1] http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Values
On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 2:02 AM, Nathan nawrich@gmail.com wrote:
Hello and welcome, Damon.
One thing I've long appreciated about the Wikimedia movement is that it is not political, and indeed the flagship project is explicitly neutral. This distinction has become a little more nuanced as the movement has taken political positions that are congruent with the overall mission, but I think it remains the case that Wikimedians have been able to avoid entanglements with general political issues. This has been especially the case with most deeply controversial and current political debates.
So while I agree with your sentiment, that leaders must model values such as courage and integrity, I think it would have been better expressed without the ringing endorsement of Che Guevara. As you say, we should choose our words carefully and ensure that our language is positive and inclusive. This is obviously an area where we can all make progress.
~Nathan _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 6:44 AM, Andreas Kolbe jayen466@gmail.com wrote:
The community has heard a lot from the WMF about courage, honesty, integrity and leadership – and rather too much of the latter of late: let's remember that the Wikimedia Foundation's values[1] speak of *community-led* projects.
For the last 6-7 years we got financial and organizational stability. We are now financially stable worldwide movement. That's great achievement.
The price which we paid for that is quite large. Most importantly, we lost the momentum along with the initial enthusiasm.
In the ideal world, we wouldn't have lost the momentum. In the ideal world, community would be capable to fix the holes made by leadership and management.
However, we are not living in the ideal world. Besides some drawback, the positive thing of not living in the ideal world is it's inherent feature that you can change it.
Because of that, I am very happy to see somebody with courage and integrity in the top management. Such person has much larger potential to create the momentum and build community enthusiasm again.
On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 3:02 AM, Nathan nawrich@gmail.com wrote:
So while I agree with your sentiment, that leaders must model values such as courage and integrity, I think it would have been better expressed without the ringing endorsement of Che Guevara. As you say, we should choose our words carefully and ensure that our language is positive and inclusive. This is obviously an area where we can all make progress.
Nathan, the fact that Damon is likely a trot who quotes Che Guevara is as good as the fact that Jimmy is an objectivist (or, at least, was at the time of creation of Wikipedia). You can't be a fundamentalist here. And as long as the ideology is dominantly secular, it's bringing to us not just diversity, but people with stronger motivation, which we badly need.
On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 1:40 PM, Milos Rancic millosh@gmail.com wrote:
Because of that, I am very happy to see somebody with courage and integrity in the top management. Such person has much larger potential to create the momentum and build community enthusiasm again.
Is someone saying "I have courage and integrity" all it takes to convince you that they are indeed possessed of those qualities? Every politician says that. I'd reserve judgment and wait to see their performance.
Besides, what has been lacking is not courage. Creating the Superprotection feature, pressing ahead with the Flow concept in the face of massive community skepticism and rolling out a very poorly implemented VisualEditor undoubtedly took courage of a sort.
What's been lacking is an ability to convince the community through argument rather than the exercise of power, an ability to understand the community's needs and concerns, and sheer old-fashioned engineering competence – something the VisualEditor signally failed to demonstrate.
Jimmy Wales acknowledged that there have been huge problems. Recently, a Wikipedian quoted the following to him on his talk page:
*“The Foundation has a miserable cost/benefit ratio and for years now has spent millions on software development without producing anything that actually works; the feeling is that the whole operation is held together with the goodwill of its volunteers and the more stupid Foundation managers are seriously hacking them off”,*
Wales replied[1] (my emphasis),
*“Other than the extreme nature of the comment (‘without producing ANYTHING’ is too strong) why do you think I would disagree with that? This is precisely the point of the new CEO and new direction – to radically improve the software development process. That statement, while too strong, is indeed an accurate depiction of what has gone wrong. I’ve been frustrated as well about the endless controversies about the rollout of inadequate software not developed with sufficient community consultation and without proper incremental rollout to catch showstopping bugs.”* I don't want to be unduly churlish to Damon, who deserves his welcome here like any new team member, but given the above background I personally would have appreciated an intimation from Damon that he is aware of the problems to date, that roll-outs will be handled more competently on his watch, and that the community will not be presented with substandard software again.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Jimbo_Wales&diff=ne...
Are you in? Or are you out? That is the question.
Lila
P.S. If you'd like to talk about operational efficiency and quality of software manufacturing -- please start a thread on that. We are deep into working on that here, so would be happy to share the love!
On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 7:36 AM, Andreas Kolbe jayen466@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 1:40 PM, Milos Rancic millosh@gmail.com wrote:
Because of that, I am very happy to see somebody with courage and integrity in the top management. Such person has much larger potential to create the momentum and build community enthusiasm again.
Is someone saying "I have courage and integrity" all it takes to convince you that they are indeed possessed of those qualities? Every politician says that. I'd reserve judgment and wait to see their performance.
Besides, what has been lacking is not courage. Creating the Superprotection feature, pressing ahead with the Flow concept in the face of massive community skepticism and rolling out a very poorly implemented VisualEditor undoubtedly took courage of a sort.
What's been lacking is an ability to convince the community through argument rather than the exercise of power, an ability to understand the community's needs and concerns, and sheer old-fashioned engineering competence – something the VisualEditor signally failed to demonstrate.
Jimmy Wales acknowledged that there have been huge problems. Recently, a Wikipedian quoted the following to him on his talk page:
*“The Foundation has a miserable cost/benefit ratio and for years now has spent millions on software development without producing anything that actually works; the feeling is that the whole operation is held together with the goodwill of its volunteers and the more stupid Foundation managers are seriously hacking them off”,*
Wales replied[1] (my emphasis),
*“Other than the extreme nature of the comment (‘without producing ANYTHING’ is too strong) why do you think I would disagree with that? This is precisely the point of the new CEO and new direction – to radically improve the software development process. That statement, while too strong, is indeed an accurate depiction of what has gone wrong. I’ve been frustrated as well about the endless controversies about the rollout of inadequate software not developed with sufficient community consultation and without proper incremental rollout to catch showstopping bugs.”* I don't want to be unduly churlish to Damon, who deserves his welcome here like any new team member, but given the above background I personally would have appreciated an intimation from Damon that he is aware of the problems to date, that roll-outs will be handled more competently on his watch, and that the community will not be presented with substandard software again.
[1]
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Jimbo_Wales&diff=ne... _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Hi Lila,
May I request a Tech Talk about efficiency and quality of Wikimedia software development? It would be interesting to have you, Erik and Damon as presenters.
Thanks,
Pine On Oct 7, 2014 9:07 AM, "Lila Tretikov" lila@wikimedia.org wrote:
Are you in? Or are you out? That is the question.
Lila
P.S. If you'd like to talk about operational efficiency and quality of software manufacturing -- please start a thread on that. We are deep into working on that here, so would be happy to share the love!
On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 7:36 AM, Andreas Kolbe jayen466@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 1:40 PM, Milos Rancic millosh@gmail.com wrote:
Because of that, I am very happy to see somebody with courage and integrity in the top management. Such person has much larger potential to create the momentum and build community enthusiasm again.
Is someone saying "I have courage and integrity" all it takes to convince you that they are indeed possessed of those qualities? Every politician says that. I'd reserve judgment and wait to see their performance.
Besides, what has been lacking is not courage. Creating the
Superprotection
feature, pressing ahead with the Flow concept in the face of massive community skepticism and rolling out a very poorly implemented
VisualEditor
undoubtedly took courage of a sort.
What's been lacking is an ability to convince the community through argument rather than the exercise of power, an ability to understand the community's needs and concerns, and sheer old-fashioned engineering competence – something the VisualEditor signally failed to demonstrate.
Jimmy Wales acknowledged that there have been huge problems. Recently, a Wikipedian quoted the following to him on his talk page:
*“The Foundation has a miserable cost/benefit ratio and for years now has spent millions on software development without producing anything that actually works; the feeling is that the whole operation is held together with the goodwill of its volunteers and the more stupid Foundation
managers
are seriously hacking them off”,*
Wales replied[1] (my emphasis),
*“Other than the extreme nature of the comment (‘without producing ANYTHING’ is too strong) why do you think I would disagree with that?
This
is precisely the point of the new CEO and new direction – to radically improve the software development process. That statement, while too
strong,
is indeed an accurate depiction of what has gone wrong. I’ve been frustrated as well about the endless controversies about the rollout of inadequate software not developed with sufficient community consultation and without proper incremental rollout to catch showstopping bugs.”* I don't want to be unduly churlish to Damon, who deserves his welcome
here
like any new team member, but given the above background I personally
would
have appreciated an intimation from Damon that he is aware of the
problems
to date, that roll-outs will be handled more competently on his watch,
and
that the community will not be presented with substandard software again.
[1]
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Jimbo_Wales&diff=ne...
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Yes Pine, you may. Let's give Damon a bit of time to settle in and we can arrange that.
We are also in the midst of working through documenting and exposing our product development process, which would help set up parameters for success of projects.
Lila
On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 11:14 PM, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Lila,
May I request a Tech Talk about efficiency and quality of Wikimedia software development? It would be interesting to have you, Erik and Damon as presenters.
Thanks,
Pine On Oct 7, 2014 9:07 AM, "Lila Tretikov" lila@wikimedia.org wrote:
Are you in? Or are you out? That is the question.
Lila
P.S. If you'd like to talk about operational efficiency and quality of software manufacturing -- please start a thread on that. We are deep into working on that here, so would be happy to share the love!
On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 7:36 AM, Andreas Kolbe jayen466@gmail.com
wrote:
On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 1:40 PM, Milos Rancic millosh@gmail.com
wrote:
Because of that, I am very happy to see somebody with courage and integrity in the top management. Such person has much larger
potential
to create the momentum and build community enthusiasm again.
Is someone saying "I have courage and integrity" all it takes to
convince
you that they are indeed possessed of those qualities? Every politician says that. I'd reserve judgment and wait to see their performance.
Besides, what has been lacking is not courage. Creating the
Superprotection
feature, pressing ahead with the Flow concept in the face of massive community skepticism and rolling out a very poorly implemented
VisualEditor
undoubtedly took courage of a sort.
What's been lacking is an ability to convince the community through argument rather than the exercise of power, an ability to understand
the
community's needs and concerns, and sheer old-fashioned engineering competence – something the VisualEditor signally failed to demonstrate.
Jimmy Wales acknowledged that there have been huge problems. Recently,
a
Wikipedian quoted the following to him on his talk page:
*“The Foundation has a miserable cost/benefit ratio and for years now
has
spent millions on software development without producing anything that actually works; the feeling is that the whole operation is held
together
with the goodwill of its volunteers and the more stupid Foundation
managers
are seriously hacking them off”,*
Wales replied[1] (my emphasis),
*“Other than the extreme nature of the comment (‘without producing ANYTHING’ is too strong) why do you think I would disagree with that?
This
is precisely the point of the new CEO and new direction – to radically improve the software development process. That statement, while too
strong,
is indeed an accurate depiction of what has gone wrong. I’ve been frustrated as well about the endless controversies about the rollout of inadequate software not developed with sufficient community
consultation
and without proper incremental rollout to catch showstopping bugs.”* I don't want to be unduly churlish to Damon, who deserves his welcome
here
like any new team member, but given the above background I personally
would
have appreciated an intimation from Damon that he is aware of the
problems
to date, that roll-outs will be handled more competently on his watch,
and
that the community will not be presented with substandard software
again.
[1]
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Jimbo_Wales&diff=ne...
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On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 4:36 PM, Andreas Kolbe jayen466@gmail.com wrote:
Is someone saying "I have courage and integrity" all it takes to convince you that they are indeed possessed of those qualities? Every politician says that. I'd reserve judgment and wait to see their performance.
That's good for the beginning. If a politician says that he or she has "courage and integrity" that defines his or her attitude. At this moment of time our movement is in the process of waking up and we need that kind of attitude.
What would be bad -- again from the perspective of what a politician says -- is the construction like "This is great community and I would like to join your path!"
Both constructions are positive in general, but presently we need the attitude of change, not the flattering attitude.
The second good thing is that we can keep him accountable for what he said, like you are doing that with your politician. (Counting that we have much more influence on WMF structures than average voter on the state structures.)
Besides, what has been lacking is not courage. Creating the Superprotection feature, pressing ahead with the Flow concept in the face of massive community skepticism and rolling out a very poorly implemented VisualEditor undoubtedly took courage of a sort.
That isn't courage, but despair to show that something has been done. In this context, courage is to have a vision (which includes community), make the plan (which includes community), do the job (which includes community) and implement the features in acceptable way for the community.
Those three features you mentioned are different issues.
Superprotection clearly needs political decision, i.e. particular communities should be asked about such actions.
VisualEditor is good and needed feature in theory, while, as you mentioned, poorly implemented. Obviously, it needs polishing and more QA work.
However, in relation to Flow, I think that such features should be discussed and pushed if necessary. Counting, of course, that they've been well implemented, without significant problems. We need *really* new features, capable to introduce different paradigm into our daily work.
It's obviously on the new management to find a way how to overcome previous issues.
What's been lacking is an ability to convince the community through argument rather than the exercise of power, an ability to understand the community's needs and concerns, and sheer old-fashioned engineering competence – something the VisualEditor signally failed to demonstrate.
From my perspective, what we didn't have last years is actually
courage to do new things. From what I heard from the first hand, and besides low level features like Parser is, Flow is the first real innovation in wiki software since talk pages themselves. The sum of all previous "innovations" gave the impression that the world is going into one direction, while we are waiting in the early 2000s.
The reason for that is exactly cowardice on all levels of power structure in our movement. Basically, as somebody gets some permissions, he or she becomes much more afraid of doing anything which would endanger his or her position. And as it goes up, the level of cowardice was just growing.
The product of that process is that sometimes things can't be prolonged anymore, something has to be done because any reason. Then we get forced implementations, promoting bizarrely insignificant features as great achievements, confronting with the Wikipedia communities or other parts of the movement. That's despair, not courage.
And that's why we need people of courage and integrity in the top managerial positions. Those capable to work well under community pressure till the product is done. Damon sad that he is such person and I am very happy to hear that. That's good starting point. We'll see the product of that, of course.
On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 6:07 PM, Lila Tretikov lila@wikimedia.org wrote:
Are you in? Or are you out? That is the question.
If the military allegory is the right thing to make, imagine that you are a general of Napoleon's army in Moscow. Your army conquered almost everything in the most important part of the world, but it's exhausted. That's the present state of the morale in our communities. You need now firefighters, not court-martial.
I think the first lesson here is: if you're going to talk about a harmonious community, don't quote divisive political figures in support of your argument :-)
That said, welcome Damon! Certainly, it's a pretty tough job that you've stepped into, but I'm optimistic that a fresh approach and fresh eyes will assist the engineering team in pushing through the present difficulties with software deployments.
Regards, Craig Franklin
On 7 October 2014 11:02, Nathan nawrich@gmail.com wrote:
Hello and welcome, Damon.
One thing I've long appreciated about the Wikimedia movement is that it is not political, and indeed the flagship project is explicitly neutral. This distinction has become a little more nuanced as the movement has taken political positions that are congruent with the overall mission, but I think it remains the case that Wikimedians have been able to avoid entanglements with general political issues. This has been especially the case with most deeply controversial and current political debates.
So while I agree with your sentiment, that leaders must model values such as courage and integrity, I think it would have been better expressed without the ringing endorsement of Che Guevara. As you say, we should choose our words carefully and ensure that our language is positive and inclusive. This is obviously an area where we can all make progress.
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On 8 October 2014 13:52, Craig Franklin cfranklin@halonetwork.net wrote:
I think the first lesson here is: if you're going to talk about a harmonious community, don't quote divisive political figures in support of your argument :-)
Objection! Assumes the existence of a non-divisive topic for Wikipedians. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Lamest_edit_wars
- d.
Well said, Craig. Because "Che Guevara" means for me: I'm out. Ziko
Am Mittwoch, 8. Oktober 2014 schrieb Craig Franklin :
I think the first lesson here is: if you're going to talk about a harmonious community, don't quote divisive political figures in support of your argument :-)
That said, welcome Damon! Certainly, it's a pretty tough job that you've stepped into, but I'm optimistic that a fresh approach and fresh eyes will assist the engineering team in pushing through the present difficulties with software deployments.
Regards, Craig Franklin
On 7 October 2014 11:02, Nathan <nawrich@gmail.com javascript:;> wrote:
Hello and welcome, Damon.
One thing I've long appreciated about the Wikimedia movement is that it
is
not political, and indeed the flagship project is explicitly neutral.
This
distinction has become a little more nuanced as the movement has taken political positions that are congruent with the overall mission, but I think it remains the case that Wikimedians have been able to avoid entanglements with general political issues. This has been especially the case with most deeply controversial and current political debates.
So while I agree with your sentiment, that leaders must model values such as courage and integrity, I think it would have been better expressed without the ringing endorsement of Che Guevara. As you say, we should choose our words carefully and ensure that our language is positive and inclusive. This is obviously an area where we can all make progress.
~Nathan _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org javascript:; Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org javascript:;
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On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 5:54 PM, Ziko van Dijk zvandijk@gmail.com wrote:
Well said, Craig. Because "Che Guevara" means for me: I'm out.
Ziko, trots are nice people, as ordinary liberals are. If you don't trust me, I think you should definitely participate in the next Wikimania and ask anyone at info desk where you can find some of them.
Every once in a while something happens in our Wikimedia-verse -- this thread, for instance, or getting into a political discussion with someone at an event -- that reminds me that I can violently disagree on matters of politics with some of my dearest friends in Wikimedia. Of course Wikimedians are deeply and clearly political when it comes to free knowledge and copyright law -- but after that it's often a mystery to me how people feel about various issues, and sometimes a surprise to find that we agree or disagree.
And that is one of the things that I love about this community -- the fact that regardless of whether we would vote for different people or come down on different sides in almost anything else, we can agree about our love of getting an encyclopedia edited and sharing free knowledge. It's lovely :)
Now, let's get back to fighting about something that matters, like Oxford commas and reference formats!
-- phoebe
p.s. welcome, Damon!
On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 8:54 AM, Ziko van Dijk zvandijk@gmail.com wrote:
Well said, Craig. Because "Che Guevara" means for me: I'm out. Ziko
Am Mittwoch, 8. Oktober 2014 schrieb Craig Franklin :
I think the first lesson here is: if you're going to talk about a harmonious community, don't quote divisive political figures in support of your argument :-)
That said, welcome Damon! Certainly, it's a pretty tough job that you've stepped into, but I'm optimistic that a fresh approach and fresh eyes will assist the engineering team in pushing through the present difficulties with software deployments.
Regards, Craig Franklin
On 7 October 2014 11:02, Nathan <nawrich@gmail.com javascript:;> wrote:
Hello and welcome, Damon.
One thing I've long appreciated about the Wikimedia movement is that it
is
not political, and indeed the flagship project is explicitly neutral.
This
distinction has become a little more nuanced as the movement has taken political positions that are congruent with the overall mission, but I think it remains the case that Wikimedians have been able to avoid entanglements with general political issues. This has been especially the case with most deeply controversial and current political debates.
So while I agree with your sentiment, that leaders must model values such as courage and integrity, I think it would have been better expressed without the ringing endorsement of Che Guevara. As you say, we should choose our words carefully and ensure that our language is positive and inclusive. This is obviously an area where we can all make progress.
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Craig Franklin wrote:
That said, welcome Damon! Certainly, it's a pretty tough job that you've stepped into, but I'm optimistic that a fresh approach and fresh eyes will assist the engineering team in pushing through the present difficulties with software deployments.
Which present difficulties are you referring to? If it's issues with feature/bug prioritization and resource allocation, it's probably more the Product side of the house, not the Engineering side of the house, that would need a refresh, I think. That's my vague understanding, anyway.
MZMcBride
I'm sure a Board member, Lila, or Erik will correct me if I am mistaken, but my understanding is that there is internal agreement at Board level that the Product side of the org needs some systemic changes, that Lila was chosen with the goal of making those changes, and that some changes are already happening.
Pine
On Oct 8, 2014 11:08 PM, "MZMcBride" z@mzmcbride.com wrote:
Craig Franklin wrote:
That said, welcome Damon! Certainly, it's a pretty tough job that you've stepped into, but I'm optimistic that a fresh approach and fresh eyes will assist the engineering team in pushing through the present difficulties with software deployments.
Which present difficulties are you referring to? If it's issues with feature/bug prioritization and resource allocation, it's probably more the Product side of the house, not the Engineering side of the house, that would need a refresh, I think. That's my vague understanding, anyway.
MZMcBride
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