hi jimmy,
i asked on the facebook group wikipeda weekly if joe/ed could publish an upcoming blog post on wikinews. joe sutherland mentioned ".. I simply cannot get my head around its attitude to news coverage". which i find frightening. an editor for 10 years, tens of thousands contributions, thousands of pages created, degree in journalism, dissertation about news on wikipedia, administrator.[1]
jimmy, as wikinews refers an old mail of you from 2003 as the holy grail of NPOV, could you please clarify once and for all that your NPOV statemant you sent to wikien-l was valid for wikipedia. and not for wikisource, wikiquote, wikinews. best on the wikinews talk page concerning NPOV [2][4]. i understand of course that certain publishing standards might apply - but NPOV, and "sourced" in the sense of published somewhere else cannot be amongst them [3].
just as a note, i hate that the blog [5] opens 20 times slower than wikinews on my mobile phone, that it is not in different languages, that i do not have the "usual mediawiki features". i hate that signpost [7] cannot be read on mobiles because of formatting. i hate the glam newsletter [6] for the same reason, despite beeig again on a different wiki, no "read in different languages". which is the main reason i write this mail ... and asked joe why not using wikinews. and i hate that wikinews does not use mediawiki features to properly classify what quality an article has, e.g. "blog", "npov", etc.
[1] https://tools.wmflabs.org/xtools-ec/?user=Foxj&project=en.wikipedia.org [2] https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews_talk:Neutral_point_of_view#raphael_hon... [3] https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews:Pillars_of_Wikinews_writing [4] https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2003-November/008096.html [5] blog: http://blog.wikimedia.org/2016/04/22/ted-wikimedia-collaboration/ [6] glam newletter: https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Newsletter [7] signpost: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost
best, rupert
You're publishing on the main movement mailing list to complain about another user and ask Jimmy a yes/no question?
This could've been handled with a neutral description of the background. I'm not sure if you're in a position to be frightened by the comments of long-term editors right now.
On Friday, 22 April 2016, rupert THURNER rupert.thurner@gmail.com wrote:
hi jimmy,
i asked on the facebook group wikipeda weekly if joe/ed could publish an upcoming blog post on wikinews. joe sutherland mentioned ".. I simply cannot get my head around its attitude to news coverage". which i find frightening. an editor for 10 years, tens of thousands contributions, thousands of pages created, degree in journalism, dissertation about news on wikipedia, administrator.[1]
jimmy, as wikinews refers an old mail of you from 2003 as the holy grail of NPOV, could you please clarify once and for all that your NPOV statemant you sent to wikien-l was valid for wikipedia. and not for wikisource, wikiquote, wikinews. best on the wikinews talk page concerning NPOV [2][4]. i understand of course that certain publishing standards might apply - but NPOV, and "sourced" in the sense of published somewhere else cannot be amongst them [3].
just as a note, i hate that the blog [5] opens 20 times slower than wikinews on my mobile phone, that it is not in different languages, that i do not have the "usual mediawiki features". i hate that signpost [7] cannot be read on mobiles because of formatting. i hate the glam newsletter [6] for the same reason, despite beeig again on a different wiki, no "read in different languages". which is the main reason i write this mail ... and asked joe why not using wikinews. and i hate that wikinews does not use mediawiki features to properly classify what quality an article has, e.g. "blog", "npov", etc.
[1] https://tools.wmflabs.org/xtools-ec/?user=Foxj&project=en.wikipedia.org [2] https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews_talk:Neutral_point_of_view#raphael_hon... [3] https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews:Pillars_of_Wikinews_writing [4] https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2003-November/008096.html [5] blog: http://blog.wikimedia.org/2016/04/22/ted-wikimedia-collaboration/ [6] glam newletter: https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Newsletter [7] signpost: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost
best, rupert
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On 22 April 2016 at 12:42, rupert THURNER rupert.thurner@gmail.com wrote:
i asked on the facebook group wikipeda weekly if joe/ed could publish an upcoming blog post on wikinews. joe sutherland mentioned ".. I simply cannot get my head around its attitude to news coverage". which i find frightening. an editor for 10 years, tens of thousands contributions, thousands of pages created, degree in journalism, dissertation about news on wikipedia, administrator.[1]
jimmy, as wikinews refers an old mail of you from 2003 as the holy grail of NPOV, could you please clarify once and for all that your NPOV statemant you sent to wikien-l was valid for wikipedia. and not for wikisource, wikiquote, wikinews. best on the wikinews talk page concerning NPOV [2][4]. i understand of course that certain publishing standards might apply - but NPOV, and "sourced" in the sense of published somewhere else cannot be amongst them [3].
A discussion about whether the Communications Team should do blog posts on Wikinews instead of the Wikimedia Blog seems quite off-topic for this very general mailing list. Why don't you try contacting the Communications Team?
just as a note, i hate that the blog [5] opens 20 times slower than wikinews on my mobile phone, that it is not in different languages, that i do not have the "usual mediawiki features". i hate that signpost [7] cannot be read on mobiles because of formatting. i hate the glam newsletter [6] for the same reason, despite beeig again on a different wiki, no "read in different languages". which is the main reason i write this mail ... and asked joe why not using wikinews. and i hate that wikinews does not use mediawiki features to properly classify what quality an article has, e.g. "blog", "npov", etc.
If you have criticism to give, then using strong language such as "hate" in every single sentence will likely cause people to tune out. This means you are unlikely to achieve anything. Almost everyone here is open to constructive criticism, but this message is quite far away from that. Please be respectful of your fellow Wikimedians, and try to restate your criticism more constructively and neutrally.
Dan
On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 12:42 PM, rupert THURNER rupert.thurner@gmail.com wrote:
hi jimmy,
i asked on the facebook group wikipeda weekly if joe/ed could publish an upcoming blog post on wikinews. joe sutherland mentioned ".. I simply cannot get my head around its attitude to news coverage". which i find frightening. an editor for 10 years, tens of thousands contributions, thousands of pages created, degree in journalism, dissertation about news on wikipedia, administrator.[1]
jimmy, as wikinews refers an old mail of you from 2003 as the holy grail of NPOV, could you please clarify once and for all that your NPOV statemant you sent to wikien-l was valid for wikipedia. and not for wikisource, wikiquote, wikinews. best on the wikinews talk page concerning NPOV [2][4]. i understand of course that certain publishing standards might apply - but NPOV, and "sourced" in the sense of published somewhere else cannot be amongst them [3].
just as a note, i hate that the blog [5] opens 20 times slower than wikinews on my mobile phone,
The blog is hosted by Automattic (known for Wordpress.com) in the same environment as high traffic sites like time.com or fivethirtyeight.com. You can file technical issues on Phabricator: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/project/view/328/ or contact the blog team (https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Blog/Guidelines ).
that it is not in different languages,
It does support multilingual posts, e.g. https://blog.wikimedia.org/2016/04/18/wikimedia-server-switch/ is available in 23 languages.
that i do not have the "usual mediawiki features". i hate that signpost [7] cannot be read on mobiles because of formatting. i hate the glam newsletter [6] for the same reason, despite beeig again on a different wiki, no "read in different languages". which is the main reason i write this mail ... and asked joe why not using wikinews. and i hate that wikinews does not use mediawiki features to properly classify what quality an article has, e.g. "blog", "npov", etc.
[1] https://tools.wmflabs.org/xtools-ec/?user=Foxj&project=en.wikipedia.org [2] https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews_talk:Neutral_point_of_view#raphael_hon... [3] https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews:Pillars_of_Wikinews_writing [4] https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2003-November/008096.html [5] blog: http://blog.wikimedia.org/2016/04/22/ted-wikimedia-collaboration/ [6] glam newletter: https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Newsletter [7] signpost: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost
best, rupert
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 10:38 PM, Tilman Bayer tbayer@wikimedia.org wrote:
On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 12:42 PM, rupert THURNER rupert.thurner@gmail.com wrote:
hi jimmy,
i asked on the facebook group wikipeda weekly if joe/ed could publish an upcoming blog post on wikinews. joe sutherland mentioned ".. I simply cannot get my head around its attitude to news coverage". which i find frightening. an editor for 10 years, tens of thousands contributions, thousands of pages created, degree in journalism, dissertation about news on wikipedia, administrator.[1]
jimmy, as wikinews refers an old mail of you from 2003 as the holy grail of NPOV, could you please clarify once and for all that your NPOV statemant you sent to wikien-l was valid for wikipedia. and not for wikisource, wikiquote, wikinews. best on the wikinews talk page concerning NPOV [2][4]. i understand of course that certain publishing standards might apply - but NPOV, and "sourced" in the sense of published somewhere else cannot be amongst them [3].
just as a note, i hate that the blog [5] opens 20 times slower than wikinews on my mobile phone,
The blog is hosted by Automattic (known for Wordpress.com) in the same environment as high traffic sites like time.com or fivethirtyeight.com. You can file technical issues on Phabricator: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/project/view/328/ or contact the blog team (https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Blog/Guidelines ).
that it is not in different languages,
It does support multilingual posts, e.g. https://blog.wikimedia.org/2016/04/18/wikimedia-server-switch/ is available in 23 languages.
asaf and others were so kind to point me to the statistics of wikinews, only SIX persons contributing. this a nice private wiki now - nobody would notice if it is set read only :) https://stats.wikimedia.org/wikinews/EN/SummaryEN.htm
still i think it benefits the movements software if you as WMF communications team eat our own dogfood and publish on mediawiki. wikinews might fit nicely as its target of publishing original texts is closest - but anyway wiknews would need a policy change and the bureaucrat(s) changed to allow such kinds of texts. if this policy change revives its contributor base good. if not i'd agree with asaf and others to just let it formally die, as it is already de facto dead.
that i do not have the "usual mediawiki features". i hate that signpost [7] cannot be read on mobiles because of formatting. i hate the glam newsletter [6] for the same reason, despite beeig again on a different wiki, no "read in different languages". which is the main reason i write this mail ... and asked joe why not using wikinews. and i hate that wikinews does not use mediawiki features to properly classify what quality an article has, e.g. "blog", "npov", etc.
[1] https://tools.wmflabs.org/xtools-ec/?user=Foxj&project=en.wikipedia.org [2] https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews_talk:Neutral_point_of_view#raphael_hon... [3] https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews:Pillars_of_Wikinews_writing [4] https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2003-November/008096.html [5] blog: http://blog.wikimedia.org/2016/04/22/ted-wikimedia-collaboration/ [6] glam newletter: https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Newsletter [7] signpost: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost
For comparison: http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Special:Statistics
the twitter version: "Wikinews is half as active as Citizendium."
- d.
On 1 May 2016 at 17:45, rupert THURNER rupert.thurner@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 10:38 PM, Tilman Bayer tbayer@wikimedia.org wrote:
On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 12:42 PM, rupert THURNER rupert.thurner@gmail.com wrote:
hi jimmy,
i asked on the facebook group wikipeda weekly if joe/ed could publish an upcoming blog post on wikinews. joe sutherland mentioned ".. I simply cannot get my head around its attitude to news coverage". which i find frightening. an editor for 10 years, tens of thousands contributions, thousands of pages created, degree in journalism, dissertation about news on wikipedia, administrator.[1]
jimmy, as wikinews refers an old mail of you from 2003 as the holy grail of NPOV, could you please clarify once and for all that your NPOV statemant you sent to wikien-l was valid for wikipedia. and not for wikisource, wikiquote, wikinews. best on the wikinews talk page concerning NPOV [2][4]. i understand of course that certain publishing standards might apply - but NPOV, and "sourced" in the sense of published somewhere else cannot be amongst them [3].
just as a note, i hate that the blog [5] opens 20 times slower than wikinews on my mobile phone,
The blog is hosted by Automattic (known for Wordpress.com) in the same environment as high traffic sites like time.com or fivethirtyeight.com. You can file technical issues on Phabricator: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/project/view/328/ or contact the blog team (https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Blog/Guidelines ).
that it is not in different languages,
It does support multilingual posts, e.g. https://blog.wikimedia.org/2016/04/18/wikimedia-server-switch/ is available in 23 languages.
asaf and others were so kind to point me to the statistics of wikinews, only SIX persons contributing. this a nice private wiki now
- nobody would notice if it is set read only :)
https://stats.wikimedia.org/wikinews/EN/SummaryEN.htm
still i think it benefits the movements software if you as WMF communications team eat our own dogfood and publish on mediawiki. wikinews might fit nicely as its target of publishing original texts is closest - but anyway wiknews would need a policy change and the bureaucrat(s) changed to allow such kinds of texts. if this policy change revives its contributor base good. if not i'd agree with asaf and others to just let it formally die, as it is already de facto dead.
that i do not have the "usual mediawiki features". i hate that signpost [7] cannot be read on mobiles because of formatting. i hate the glam newsletter [6] for the same reason, despite beeig again on a different wiki, no "read in different languages". which is the main reason i write this mail ... and asked joe why not using wikinews. and i hate that wikinews does not use mediawiki features to properly classify what quality an article has, e.g. "blog", "npov", etc.
[1] https://tools.wmflabs.org/xtools-ec/?user=Foxj&project=en.wikipedia.org [2] https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews_talk:Neutral_point_of_view#raphael_hon... [3] https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews:Pillars_of_Wikinews_writing [4] https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2003-November/008096.html [5] blog: http://blog.wikimedia.org/2016/04/22/ted-wikimedia-collaboration/ [6] glam newletter: https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Newsletter [7] signpost: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost
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On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 12:42 PM, rupert THURNER rupert.thurner@gmail.com wrote:
[snip]
just as a note, i hate that the blog [5] opens 20 times slower than wikinews on my mobile phone, that it is not in different languages, that i do not have the "usual mediawiki features".
For translations, see https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Blog#Translations - If you're volunteering to help, great!
i hate that signpost [7] cannot be read on mobiles because of formatting.
Last discussed in November at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Wikipedia_Signpost/Archive_9#Mo... Example link on mobile: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/Si...
For translations, I wish that all the local newspapers (many but not all of https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q7395165) were translated into various languages, but that would be a lot of work.
i hate the glam newsletter [6] for the same reason, despite beeig again on a different wiki, no "read in different languages". which is the main reason i write this mail
That would be a lot of content to translate every month. E.g. https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Newsletter/February_2016/Single - if you're volunteering to do so every month, a comment on the talkpage might work best.
[snip]
On 16-04-22 05:04 PM, quiddity wrote:
i hate that signpost [7] cannot be read on mobiles because of formatting.
Last discussed in November at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Wikipedia_Signpost/Archive_9#Mo...
With luck, the work on https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T483 will help a great deal with that issue by allowing media-dependent styling. We're now at the security review stage, which means we'll be in a position to deploy to the beta servers soon.
-- Coren / Marc
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