Hello, This is something I have been thinking about for some time. This June–July we will see a couple of elections/selections. I think wherever a voting is in process, an effective canvassing/promotion policy should be there. We may need to notify our friend Wikimedians about our candidacy, that is understandable, but there should be behavioral guidelines on what is appropriate and what is inappropriate promotion/canvassing. This email thread is about the process, and I won't mention any specific example, however during every election/committee formation we see different votestacking attempts and efforts. In such a situation there is a possibility that if a candidate has many social media or contacts and friends (Wimimedian), they will end up getting more votes than someone who entirely relied on their nomination and performance.
There is a behavioral guideline on a Wikipedia project: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Canvassing I don't think this is globally applicable, and I am note sure if we have one global policy. Hence, 1) We can work on "Canvassing guidelines", discussing appropriateness, inappropriateness etc. 2) These guidelines should be effectively used and it would be great if the candidates/contestants read and acknowledge that they will adhere to the protocol/policy. Kind regards,
ইতি,/Regards টিটো দত্ত/User:Titodutta (মাতৃভাষা থাক জীবন জুড়ে)
Hoi, Why is a guideline on English Wikipedia the right place for a policy that is of a global relevance? Thanks, GerardM
On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 at 09:05, টিটো দত্ত Tito Dutta trulytito@gmail.com wrote:
Hello, This is something I have been thinking about for some time. This June–July we will see a couple of elections/selections. I think wherever a voting is in process, an effective canvassing/promotion policy should be there. We may need to notify our friend Wikimedians about our candidacy, that is understandable, but there should be behavioral guidelines on what is appropriate and what is inappropriate promotion/canvassing. This email thread is about the process, and I won't mention any specific example, however during every election/committee formation we see different votestacking attempts and efforts. In such a situation there is a possibility that if a candidate has many social media or contacts and friends (Wimimedian), they will end up getting more votes than someone who entirely relied on their nomination and performance.
There is a behavioral guideline on a Wikipedia project: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Canvassing I don't think this is globally applicable, and I am note sure if we have one global policy. Hence,
- We can work on "Canvassing guidelines", discussing appropriateness,
inappropriateness etc. 2) These guidelines should be effectively used and it would be great if the candidates/contestants read and acknowledge that they will adhere to the protocol/policy. Kind regards,
ইতি,/Regards টিটো দত্ত/User:Titodutta (মাতৃভাষা থাক জীবন জুড়ে) _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Greetings, Thanks for your message. Not that particular link, but the promotion/canvassing policy/protocol and the concept behind it may be relevant. I believe it is important to work on a behavioral guideline for major elections and similar processes. In a few other languages it may be seen here: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q13365390
ইতি,/Thanks, টিটো দত্ত/User:Titodutta (মাতৃভাষা থাক জীবন জুড়ে)
শুক্র, ২৫ জুন, ২০২১ তারিখে ১০:৪৭ PM টায় এ Gerard Meijssen < gerard.meijssen@gmail.com> লিখেছেন:
Hoi, Why is a guideline on English Wikipedia the right place for a policy that is of a global relevance? Thanks, GerardM
On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 at 09:05, টিটো দত্ত Tito Dutta trulytito@gmail.com wrote:
Hello, This is something I have been thinking about for some time. This June–July we will see a couple of elections/selections. I think wherever a voting is in process, an effective canvassing/promotion policy should be there. We may need to notify our friend Wikimedians about our candidacy, that is understandable, but there should be behavioral guidelines on what is appropriate and what is inappropriate promotion/canvassing. This email thread is about the process, and I won't mention any specific example, however during every election/committee formation we see different votestacking attempts and efforts. In such a situation there is a possibility that if a candidate has many social media or contacts and friends (Wimimedian), they will end up getting more votes than someone who entirely relied on their nomination and performance.
There is a behavioral guideline on a Wikipedia project: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Canvassing I don't think this is globally applicable, and I am note sure if we have one global policy. Hence,
- We can work on "Canvassing guidelines", discussing appropriateness,
inappropriateness etc. 2) These guidelines should be effectively used and it would be great if the candidates/contestants read and acknowledge that they will adhere to the protocol/policy. Kind regards,
ইতি,/Regards টিটো দত্ত/User:Titodutta (মাতৃভাষা থাক জীবন জুড়ে) _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
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On Fri, Jun 25, 2021 at 3:05 AM টিটো দত্ত Tito Dutta trulytito@gmail.com wrote:
In such a situation there is a possibility that if a candidate has many social media or contacts and friends (Wimimedian), they will end up getting more votes than someone who entirely relied on their nomination and performance.
Is this a problem? That's normally how an election works. You participate in public debates, Q&As, or other events to present yourself to voters who have come to look at all the candidates, and then you reach out and try to engage voters who haven't engaged themselves.
WP:CANVASS exists in the Wikipedia milieu that proclaims that discussions are not votes, and hence discourages ordinary election behaviors in order to promote consensus-based decision-making. (I don't recall offhand whether or how WP:CANVASS has been applied to the one thing that even the English Wikipedia acknowledges is an election: the ArbCom election.)
Nevertheless, I think it would be appropriate for particular venues to consider whether they want to permit themselves to be used for campaigning. For instance, a couple people announced their candidacies or intended candidacies for things on this mailing list earlier this month, which is fine, I think, but you could imagine it becoming disruptive to the list if it devolved into electioneering by a hundred different candidates. Likewise, the English Wikipedia might not permit a candidate to post a vote-for-me message on the talk pages of all eligible voters. That's really a question of disruptiveness to the forum, though, not fairness of the election.
Benjamin
Speaking personally only, I'd prefer not to have candidate statements or self-promotion on this mailing list, although I'd be fine if candidates announced their candidacy and gave a link to their statements on Meta. We have to keep in mind that the majority of potential voters do not read this mailing list, and it's worthwhile for both the voters and the candidates to ensure that all members of the community have an equal opportunity to assess each candidate fairly and fully.
Ultimately, this is a decision for the list moderators; however, it's also a decision of the readers whether or not to read these statements.
Risker/Anne
On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 at 15:06, Benjamin Lees emufarmers@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Jun 25, 2021 at 3:05 AM টিটো দত্ত Tito Dutta trulytito@gmail.com wrote:
In such a situation there is a possibility that if a candidate has many social media or contacts and friends (Wimimedian), they will end up getting more votes than someone who entirely relied on their nomination and performance.
Is this a problem? That's normally how an election works. You participate in public debates, Q&As, or other events to present yourself to voters who have come to look at all the candidates, and then you reach out and try to engage voters who haven't engaged themselves.
WP:CANVASS exists in the Wikipedia milieu that proclaims that discussions are not votes, and hence discourages ordinary election behaviors in order to promote consensus-based decision-making. (I don't recall offhand whether or how WP:CANVASS has been applied to the one thing that even the English Wikipedia acknowledges is an election: the ArbCom election.)
Nevertheless, I think it would be appropriate for particular venues to consider whether they want to permit themselves to be used for campaigning. For instance, a couple people announced their candidacies or intended candidacies for things on this mailing list earlier this month, which is fine, I think, but you could imagine it becoming disruptive to the list if it devolved into electioneering by a hundred different candidates. Likewise, the English Wikipedia might not permit a candidate to post a vote-for-me message on the talk pages of all eligible voters. That's really a question of disruptiveness to the forum, though, not fairness of the election.
Benjamin _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Greetings, If it is promotion on mailing lists, it is still open and people can see that post. I have been more concerned about the numerous one-to-one communication over different social networking and communication platforms (chats) and votstacking attempts. In many of the cases, it is just asking for votes as favour, and it ends up being how many people one knows and can contact.
I believe, any process where "vote count" is the "only" way to decide the winners, appropriate canvassing policy should be a behavioral guideline.
ইতি, টিটো দত্ত (মাতৃভাষা থাক জীবন জুড়ে)
শনি, ২৬ জুন, ২০২১ তারিখে ৩:৩৮ AM টায় এ Risker risker.wp@gmail.com লিখেছেন:
Speaking personally only, I'd prefer not to have candidate statements or self-promotion on this mailing list, although I'd be fine if candidates announced their candidacy and gave a link to their statements on Meta. We have to keep in mind that the majority of potential voters do not read this mailing list, and it's worthwhile for both the voters and the candidates to ensure that all members of the community have an equal opportunity to assess each candidate fairly and fully.
Ultimately, this is a decision for the list moderators; however, it's also a decision of the readers whether or not to read these statements.
Risker/Anne
On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 at 15:06, Benjamin Lees emufarmers@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Jun 25, 2021 at 3:05 AM টিটো দত্ত Tito Dutta trulytito@gmail.com wrote:
In such a situation there is a possibility that if a candidate has many social media or contacts and friends (Wimimedian), they will end up getting more votes than someone who entirely relied on their nomination and performance.
Is this a problem? That's normally how an election works. You participate in public debates, Q&As, or other events to present yourself to voters who have come to look at all the candidates, and then you reach out and try to engage voters who haven't engaged themselves.
WP:CANVASS exists in the Wikipedia milieu that proclaims that discussions are not votes, and hence discourages ordinary election behaviors in order to promote consensus-based decision-making. (I don't recall offhand whether or how WP:CANVASS has been applied to the one thing that even the English Wikipedia acknowledges is an election: the ArbCom election.)
Nevertheless, I think it would be appropriate for particular venues to consider whether they want to permit themselves to be used for campaigning. For instance, a couple people announced their candidacies or intended candidacies for things on this mailing list earlier this month, which is fine, I think, but you could imagine it becoming disruptive to the list if it devolved into electioneering by a hundred different candidates. Likewise, the English Wikipedia might not permit a candidate to post a vote-for-me message on the talk pages of all eligible voters. That's really a question of disruptiveness to the forum, though, not fairness of the election.
Benjamin _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
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Den ons 30 juni 2021 kl 13:49 skrev টিটো দত্ত Tito Dutta < trulytito@gmail.com>:
I believe, any process where "vote count" is the "only" way to decide the winners, appropriate canvassing policy should be a behavioral guideline.
On the contrary, I believe that in actual votes, in contrast to our regular consensus seeking processes onwiki, campaigning should be explicitly encouraged. That being said, behavioral guidelines could still apply on certain channels, but getting votes by talking about your platform and what you want to achieve if you win should not be disallowed in general.
Jan Ainali
hi there,
whatever the protocol is, it should be explicit. My general feeling is that we have too little rather than too many opportunities to understand what people propose, represent, want to achieve, understand. From that point of view, it is valuable to allow reaching out larger audiences, as Jan writes.
However, as Tito notes, canvassing votes in return for favors is something we definitely should reject - as it is pretty much more or less corruption.
best,
dj "pundit"
hi there,
whatever the protocol is, it should be explicit. My general feeling is that we have too little rather than too many opportunities to understand what people propose, represent, want to achieve, understand. From that point of view, it is valuable to allow reaching out larger audiences, as Jan writes.
However, as Tito notes, canvassing votes in return for favors is something we definitely should reject - as it is pretty much more or less corruption.
best,
dj "pundit"
-- _____________________________
https://nerds.kozminski.edu.pl/
Dariusz Jemielniak, Ph.D., Full Professor, head of MINDS https://nerds.kozminski.edu.pl/
(Management in Networked and Digital Societies), Kozminski University
Polish Academy of Sciences corresponding member
faculty associate Berkman-Klein Center for Internet and Society https://cyber.harvard.edu/, Harvard University *Key books*: Collaborative Society https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/collaborative-society (2020, MIT Press, with A. Przegalinska), Thick Big Data https://global.oup.com/academic/product/thick-big-data-9780198839705?cc=gb&lang=en (2020, Oxford University Press), Common Knowlege? https://www.sup.org/books/title/?id=24010 (2014, Stanford University Press)
On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 2:25 PM Jan Ainali ainali.jan@gmail.com wrote:
Den ons 30 juni 2021 kl 13:49 skrev টিটো দত্ত Tito Dutta < trulytito@gmail.com>:
I believe, any process where "vote count" is the "only" way to decide the winners, appropriate canvassing policy should be a behavioral guideline.
On the contrary, I believe that in actual votes, in contrast to our regular consensus seeking processes onwiki, campaigning should be explicitly encouraged. That being said, behavioral guidelines could still apply on certain channels, but getting votes by talking about your platform and what you want to achieve if you win should not be disallowed in general.
Jan Ainali
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