On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 3:22 PM, Milos Rancic <millosh(a)gmail.com> wrote: Just to inform you that there is ongoing campaign against Wikipedia in Serbian by an irrelevant LGBT organization called Gay and Lesbian Info Center (GLIC) [1]. The organization has good political and media connections, including B92. Article about this organization [2] has been deleted [3] because organization exists for one year and it didn't have any relevant action, except meeting with the president of Serbia, Boris Tadic. This was enough for them to use their political and media connections to start FUD campaign against Wikipedia in Serbia. Thanks to those connections, Wikimedia Serbia was not able to publish its own response. They presented this at the first moment under the title "Homophobia on Serbian Wikipedia", but article name has been changed. Unlike their claims, other, relevant LGBT organizations have articles about them, like Queeria [4] is. We also have relatively good articles about LGBT issues: Lesbian [5], Gay [6], Bisexuality [7], Transgenders [8], Timeline of LGBT history [9]. We also have at least one important members our community which are a part of LGBT population. The point here is just to inform LGBT Wikimedians that everything is fine with relation between Serbian Wikimedians and LGBT population. The action which has been made by this irrelevant organization already makes more damage to them than to us. So, we are fine with that, too :) [1] - http://www.b92.net/eng/news/society-article.php?yyyy=2010&mm=07&dd=… [2] - for those with extra permissions: http://sr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Геј_лезбејски_инфо_центар [3] - http://sr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%92%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%BF%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%… [4] - http://sr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queeria [5] - http://sr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9B%D0%B5%D0%B7%D0%B1%D0%B5%D1%98%D0%BA%D0%… [6] - http://sr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%93%D0%B5%D1%98 [7] - http://sr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%91%D0%B8%D1%81%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%81%D1%83%D0%… [8] - http://sr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A2%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%81%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%… [9] - http://sr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pregled_LGBT_istorije Apologies for the tl;dr qualities of the response but I was thinking about it enough I decided to send it out :). When I saw your email a couple days ago Milos I had 2 reactions: 1. A bit of annoyance and shrugging at seeing this because it seems to be so common. As a gay man I feel like I am frequently annoyed at lbgt (and other minority) groups both here at home and abroad who claim homophobia or discrimination at the drop of a hat as a way to get their way. On the other hand I have also on occasion caught myself wondering if something is discrimination against me/others without any real evidence to back it up (or even evidence the specifically disclaims the idea). 2. The 2nd reaction happened soon after the first, and was much more meaningful to me. Perhaps I'm just too much of an optimist but I immediately thought "huh.. I haven't paid as much attention to the Serbian projects as I should but this, and the billboard campaign and the fact that the chapter is hiring a staff member all point to something: They're making it". The 2nd and 3rd points are a bit obvious (they have the support/attention to be able to DO those things which is awesome). The 1st brings me to a short story time: 4-5 years ago during my first (or 2nd.. I can't remember) accounting class my professor got to Intellectual Property (patent/Copyright/trademark etc) which was a subject I have loved for a long time. The issue of course was how you should account for the IP property on the books. When you register a patent, or a trademark etc the starting cost is minimal, a couple hundred or a couple thousand- not much. That small amount to register opens up the account on the books: but you add to it. Every time you have to defend that property, suing someone who is infringing for example, you add the cost of the defense to the book value of the IP and so that property literally has its book value grow as you defend it. The Accounting ideas behind this makes a lot of sense.  First off you need to find a way to account for the cost somehow, and it isn't really a sunk cost. Second it is probably the best way there actually is to truly account for how valuable that hard to value piece of paper (or electronic database entry) is. If no one is trying to copy what you are doing, or skirt the rules (or for that matter just break them) then you obviously aren't really THAT big, your product isn't valuable enough that people care. I think this carries on to WMF projects all the time. I have lost track of the individuals or organizations that complain that the fact that they are unable to get an article on enWiki is what MAKES them not able to be notable because they see getting that article as so important and anyone who deletes it/changes it is making a personal attack on their business. I'm sure some of the other wikis have seen the same thing, if your project is used widely enough the exposure of having an article is seen as SO important that many consider it a necessity (and perhaps a right). It sounds odd to say that legal threats, court actions and press campaigns PROVE that the projects or company are notable but in many ways I think they do and the fact that this article is so important to them shows that at the very least they think that the Serbian WP is used widely enough that having an article is proof of their importance. If it was't then not having an article wouldn't be a big deal. Congrats, James Alexander Jamesofur(a)gmail.com -- James Alexander james.alexander(a)rochester.edu jamesofur(a)gmail.com