foundation-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org wrote:
Judson
As said, it was considered. But Buenos Aires surpassed Toronto almost in every criteria. And if US people want to have a conf, they can organize it themselves, like Italian, Dutch or Hong Kong Wikimedians did in the past.
That is not the point of Wikimania. We should not have to do that. It should be something where we all can enjoy something together.
Jason Safoutin (DragonFire1024)
Hoi, It is absolutely clear in my mind. The cost of travelling is only one of a multitude of criteria that decide where our Wikimania will be held. When you bias the bidding process by giving more weight to one factor, you will as a consequence not get the bids from places that are discriminated against. The only good thing about this is when it is said in advance because it means that people will not bother to bid.
It is also a nonsense to think that a conference in Europe or the USA is more accessible; getting a visa for both places is increasingly problematic. When people think about a conference for all of us the cost of getting there is only one factor in allowing people to attend.
In my opinion it is unfortunate that the committee has expressed a vague opinion about the likely venue for 2010. I would have preferred it when the best offer would be allowed to win and that all offers would be weighed on their own merit. Thanks, GerardM
On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 8:02 AM, Jason Safoutin < jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org> wrote:
foundation-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org wrote:
Judson
As said, it was considered. But Buenos Aires surpassed Toronto almost in every criteria. And if US people want to have a conf, they can organize it themselves, like Italian, Dutch or Hong Kong Wikimedians did in the past.
That is not the point of Wikimania. We should not have to do that. It should be something where we all can enjoy something together.
Jason Safoutin (DragonFire1024)
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On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 1:11 AM, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
In my opinion it is unfortunate that the committee has expressed a vague opinion about the likely venue for 2010. I would have preferred it when the best offer would be allowed to win and that all offers would be weighed on their own merit.
It's certainly unfortunate that we phrased our announcement in such a way that led people to think that, and speaking for myself I don't think that's actually the case.
For my part, and I know I'm not alone in this, I've always considered every bid on its own merits. I've never given a bid special consideration because "it's their turn"—if so, I would have put my weight behind Toronto, a serious contender for the last three years running and a finalist every time. When I helped draft the announcement, I certainly didn't read that statement to mean that we would be giving undue preference to NA/EU bids for 2010.
After four venue decisions, we know to expect criticism of the final choice—for numerous, conflicting reasons. Unfortunately, Wikimania can't be everything to everyone.
What surprises me is that while I see a lot of outright attacks, nobody ever offers an alternative. Nobody's said "I've reviewed the bids, and given your criteria I think you made the wrong decision based on factors X, Y, and Z." Nobody's proposed alternative crtieria. Nobody's even found fault with individual members of the jury and their judgment. All I see is, frankly, a lot of whining based on their idea of what Wikimania should be, and where it should be, with those arguing about "where" being almost exclusively Europeans and Americans.
Constructive discussion is certainly welcome, and Michael Snow has already started a new thread on the topic of what and why. These questions have been plaguing Wikimania since 2005, so I encourage—in fact, beg—everyone to weigh in on what they think it should be, and if you think so, just where we've gone wrong.
Peace, wikilove, and all that jazz,
Austin
On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 3:02 PM, Jason Safoutin jason.safoutin@wikinewsie.org wrote:
That is not the point of Wikimania. We should not have to do that. It should be something where we all can enjoy something together.
If you are concerned about locations and only, there is no such fancy place "we can enjoy something together" in a same cost. And definitely US is no such a place because of their governmental visa policy. Canada has relaxed visa policy than US but still rather restricted than Australia etc. And any there is no geographical point everyone can attend costless. Even in Boston some Wikimedians I personally have contact and lived in the US said they couldn't afford travel due to time and travel fee cost. Your argument doesn't sound me reasonable and complaints for complaints.
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