Would a separation of powers restriction satisfy your concerns?
----- Original Message ---- From: Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 10:16:37 AM Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Community Assembly
Hoi, Given that there are some 700 communities to start with, I do not think that there is much awareness of the community that is the whole of all our communities. When you add to this the issue with communication, these 700 projects represent over 250 languages, I think I am polite when I suggest that there is a lot of communal intelligence to be developped. Thanks, GerardM
On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 6:30 PM, Geoffrey Plourde geo.plrd@yahoo.com wrote:
Just because a body is large does not mean that decisions will be bad. Are you saying that the community is too stupid to govern itself?
----- Original Message ---- From: Jesse Plamondon-Willard pathoschild@gmail.com To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 10:07:35 PM Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Community Assembly
Geoffrey Plourde geo.plrd@yahoo.com wrote: If it would make you happier, the consensus provision can be changed to a 60% majority.
We can rarely achieve a 60% majority consensus for most issues on this list, and its membership is smaller than that of an all-inclusive assembly. Depending on voting also makes numerical superiority more important than meaningful debate, so that a cultural or special-interest minority (likely including en-Wikipedia) would dominate the community through the assembly using numerical superiority. Reaching many bad decisions due to poor representation is worse than reaching few good decisions.
-- Yours cordially, Jesse Plamondon-Willard (Pathoschild)
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Geoffrey, a meaningful conversation requires substantive and thought out responses. Can you assimilate what people have written to you, and post more substantial comments in a single post rather than three, four or five in a row?
For what its worth - I think the next step here would be for interested members of the community to pursue the provisional council plan as indicated in either my resolution or effe's (resolutions proposed for consideration by the Board, mine was only posted to this list). Board approval is not required to set up something as designed, all that was looked for was their imprimatur - since they have declined to give it, for good reason, nothing prevents people from continuing on as otherwise planned. Your proposal, its merits and drawbacks aside, takes the issue back to the drawing board.
Nathan
On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 3:31 PM, Geoffrey Plourde geo.plrd@yahoo.com wrote:
Would a separation of powers restriction satisfy your concerns?
----- Original Message ---- From: Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 10:16:37 AM Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Community Assembly
Hoi, Given that there are some 700 communities to start with, I do not think that there is much awareness of the community that is the whole of all our communities. When you add to this the issue with communication, these 700 projects represent over 250 languages, I think I am polite when I suggest that there is a lot of communal intelligence to be developped. Thanks, GerardM
On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 6:30 PM, Geoffrey Plourde geo.plrd@yahoo.com wrote:
Just because a body is large does not mean that decisions will be bad.
Are
you saying that the community is too stupid to govern itself?
----- Original Message ---- From: Jesse Plamondon-Willard pathoschild@gmail.com To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 10:07:35 PM Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Community Assembly
Geoffrey Plourde geo.plrd@yahoo.com wrote: If it would make you happier, the consensus provision can be changed to a 60% majority.
We can rarely achieve a 60% majority consensus for most issues on this list, and its membership is smaller than that of an all-inclusive assembly. Depending on voting also makes numerical superiority more important than meaningful debate, so that a cultural or special-interest minority (likely including en-Wikipedia) would dominate the community through the assembly using numerical superiority. Reaching many bad decisions due to poor representation is worse than reaching few good decisions.
-- Yours cordially, Jesse Plamondon-Willard (Pathoschild)
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
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Hoi, Seperation of power does not help the different projects into contact. As it is, the projects are all autonomous. So the problem is not in separation of power, quite the contrary, projects have to give some of their power to this new body.
In any body that will come to exist be it an assembly or council, it will be power that once was in a project that will make the new project work. There is however no way an assembly / council should be handed this power on a platter; they should earn it. So when it is only a talking shop, it will not accomplish much. Thanks, GerardM
On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 9:31 PM, Geoffrey Plourde geo.plrd@yahoo.com wrote:
Would a separation of powers restriction satisfy your concerns?
----- Original Message ---- From: Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 10:16:37 AM Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Community Assembly
Hoi, Given that there are some 700 communities to start with, I do not think that there is much awareness of the community that is the whole of all our communities. When you add to this the issue with communication, these 700 projects represent over 250 languages, I think I am polite when I suggest that there is a lot of communal intelligence to be developped. Thanks, GerardM
On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 6:30 PM, Geoffrey Plourde geo.plrd@yahoo.com wrote:
Just because a body is large does not mean that decisions will be bad.
Are
you saying that the community is too stupid to govern itself?
----- Original Message ---- From: Jesse Plamondon-Willard pathoschild@gmail.com To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 10:07:35 PM Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Community Assembly
Geoffrey Plourde geo.plrd@yahoo.com wrote: If it would make you happier, the consensus provision can be changed to a 60% majority.
We can rarely achieve a 60% majority consensus for most issues on this list, and its membership is smaller than that of an all-inclusive assembly. Depending on voting also makes numerical superiority more important than meaningful debate, so that a cultural or special-interest minority (likely including en-Wikipedia) would dominate the community through the assembly using numerical superiority. Reaching many bad decisions due to poor representation is worse than reaching few good decisions.
-- Yours cordially, Jesse Plamondon-Willard (Pathoschild)
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
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