Nathan writes:
Interesting. Although the Italian media also reported that I (and Jimbo and various others) was being sued for 50 million euros, and I haven't seen that lawsuit yet.
We've had a lot of experience of spurious reports of lawsuits originating in Italy. In the majority of those cases, Wikimedia Foundation itself never receives service of process -- in effect, the cases only really "exist" in Italian media. I'm not saying that's the case here, but we haven't heard anything yet from Italian process servers yet.
I'd like to see any official complaints that have been filed in Italian courts (or elsewhere) against Wikimedia Italia. The chapter's defense (the chapter doesn't produce Wikipedia content) should be straightforward under any European legal regime, but obviously we will take an interest in any case that seems to be going the wrong way.
If the edits in question were made during a time when Frieda was on the Board of the Wikimedia Foundation (and even if not), I wonder if the WMF will contribute to her legal expenses.
WMF routinely provides director-and-officer liability protection regarding actions taken by WMF directors and officers in the conduct of their duties.
--Mike
Mike Godwin wrote:
Nathan writes:
Interesting. Although the Italian media also reported that I (and Jimbo and various others) was being sued for 50 million euros, and I haven't seen that lawsuit yet.
We've had a lot of experience of spurious reports of lawsuits originating in Italy. In the majority of those cases, Wikimedia Foundation itself never receives service of process -- in effect, the cases only really "exist" in Italian media. I'm not saying that's the case here, but we haven't heard anything yet from Italian process servers yet.
I'd like to see any official complaints that have been filed in Italian courts (or elsewhere) against Wikimedia Italia. The chapter's defense (the chapter doesn't produce Wikipedia content) should be straightforward under any European legal regime, but obviously we will take an interest in any case that seems to be going the wrong way.
The underlying wisdom appears to be: "Don't defend a lawsuit until there's a lawsuit."
Ec
2009/9/16 Mike Godwin mnemonic@gmail.com:
We've had a lot of experience of spurious reports of lawsuits originating in Italy.
How many originating from Wikimedia Italia?
I'd like to see any official complaints that have been filed in Italian courts (or elsewhere) against Wikimedia Italia.
I'll forward to you a copy of the document in few minutes. It's in italian. Is it ok for you?
The chapter's defense (the chapter doesn't produce Wikipedia content) should be straightforward under any European legal regime, but obviously we will take an interest in any case that seems to be going the wrong way.
Even if Italy is part of Europe, sometimes I'm sure it's a so civil country..
Frieda
___________________________________________ http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utente:Frieda
On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 12:39 PM, Frieda Brioschi ubifrieda@gmail.comwrote:
2009/9/16 Mike Godwin mnemonic@gmail.com:
We've had a lot of experience of spurious reports of lawsuits originating
in
Italy.
How many originating from Wikimedia Italia?
Not many, and perhaps not any -- in general the spurious threat is against WMF itself, so far as I can recall.
I'll forward to you a copy of the document in few minutes. It's in
italian. Is it ok for you?
Yes. Some kind of machine-readable text is best (so we can run it through translation software if possible), but if you're limited to an scanned PDF or other scanned image format that can't be OCR'd, we'll still want to take a look at what you've received.
--Mike
2009/9/17 Mike Godwin mnemonic@gmail.com:
How many originating from Wikimedia Italia?
Not many, and perhaps not any -- in general the spurious threat is against WMF itself, so far as I can recall.
As far as I remember we asked WMF help just once, few months ago. There were nothing in the news at that moment.
I'll forward to you a copy of the document in few minutes. It's in italian. Is it ok for you?
Yes. Some kind of machine-readable text is best (so we can run it through translation software if possible), but if you're limited to an scanned PDF or other scanned image format that can't be OCR'd, we'll still want to take a look at what you've received.
The doc is already in your mailbox. CouLd you please assure me that you received it? thanks.
And.. Why didn't you ask for it in our private discussion rather than using foundation-l?
Frieda ___________________________________________ http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utente:Frieda
Ciao,
2009/9/17 Frieda Brioschi ubifrieda@gmail.com:
I'll forward to you a copy of the document in few minutes. It's in italian. Is it ok for you?
I'd like also to have a copy. Can you put it online? Would you infringe some law if you put in Wikisource?
If it's not possible to put online, please, send to my email.
Grazie,
Tom
2009/9/17 Everton Zanella Alvarenga everton137@gmail.com:
Ciao, I'd like also to have a copy. Can you put it online? Would you infringe some law if you put in Wikisource? If it's not possible to put online, please, send to my email.
Sorry, I can't publish it. But tomorrow morning (now it's 10 pm in Italy) I'll ask our lawyer if I can send it to you.
Frieda
___________________________________________ http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utente:Frieda
2009/9/17 Frieda Brioschi ubifrieda@gmail.com:
2009/9/16 Mike Godwin mnemonic@gmail.com:
We've had a lot of experience of spurious reports of lawsuits originating in Italy.
How many originating from Wikimedia Italia?
I'd like to see any official complaints that have been filed in Italian courts (or elsewhere) against Wikimedia Italia.
I'll forward to you a copy of the document in few minutes. It's in italian. Is it ok for you?
The chapter's defense (the chapter doesn't produce Wikipedia content) should be straightforward under any European legal regime, but obviously we will take an interest in any case that seems to be going the wrong way.
Even if Italy is part of Europe, sometimes I'm sure it's a so civil country..
Thank Frieda. Mike's out of the office today meeting with the Mozilla lawyers, but he'll take a look at this when he gets back. Don't worry: we will do whatever's necessary to support you :-)
Mike Godwin, 16/09/2009 07:54:
We've had a lot of experience of spurious reports of lawsuits originating in Italy. In the majority of those cases, Wikimedia Foundation itself never receives service of process -- in effect, the cases only really "exist" in Italian media. I'm not saying that's the case here, but we haven't heard anything yet from Italian process servers yet.
I want to be clear: this message is offensive to Wikimedia Italia.
Nemo
On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 9:11 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemowiki@gmail.comwrote:
Mike Godwin, 16/09/2009 07:54:
We've had a lot of experience of spurious reports of lawsuits originating
in
Italy. In the majority of those cases, Wikimedia Foundation itself never receives service of process -- in effect, the cases only really "exist"
in
Italian media. I'm not saying that's the case here, but we haven't heard anything yet from Italian process servers yet.
I want to be clear: this message is offensive to Wikimedia Italia.
Nemo
To restate, there is a tendency in Italy for a media sensation to be made of purportedly legal matters when no legal actual legal processes have been initiated, and no legal documents drafted. As you can see, the statement has nothing to do with Wikimedia Italia.
On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 5:15 PM, Brian Brian.Mingus@colorado.edu wrote:
To restate, there is a tendency in Italy for a media sensation to be made of purportedly legal matters when no legal actual legal processes have been initiated, and no legal documents drafted. As you can see, the statement has nothing to do with Wikimedia Italia.
I agree, you often hear a lot of noise in the media with people saying "I'm going to sue you" which end up in nothing. However, this time it's quite the opposite: Wikimedia Italia has been sued and there is basically no media report, except for the blogosphere. Ok, the person suing us owns a couple of newspaper, the leader of his party a few more + the TVs, but still, there are media belonging to someone else.
Cruccone
Brian, 18/09/2009 17:15:
To restate, there is a tendency in Italy for a media sensation to be made of purportedly legal matters when no legal actual legal processes have been initiated, and no legal documents drafted.
Cfr. Marco.
As you can see, the statement has nothing to do with Wikimedia Italia.
And it's completely irrelevant to the case.
Nemo
On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 11:38 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemowiki@gmail.com wrote:
Brian, 18/09/2009 17:15:
To restate, there is a tendency in Italy for a media sensation to be made of purportedly legal matters when no legal actual legal processes have been initiated, and no legal documents drafted.
Cfr. Marco.
As you can see, the statement has nothing to do with Wikimedia Italia.
And it's completely irrelevant to the case.
Nemo
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
It was relevant until it became clear that Wikimedia Italia had actually been served, which was not evident from the initial post.
Nathan
2009/9/18 Federico Leva (Nemo) nemowiki@gmail.com:
Mike Godwin, 16/09/2009 07:54:
We've had a lot of experience of spurious reports of lawsuits originating in Italy. In the majority of those cases, Wikimedia Foundation itself never receives service of process -- in effect, the cases only really "exist" in Italian media. I'm not saying that's the case here, but we haven't heard anything yet from Italian process servers yet.
I want to be clear: this message is offensive to Wikimedia Italia.
No, it's not. The only way you could find that offensive is if you are trying to be offended - don't do that.
Nemo, can you explain why this message is offensive to Wikimedia Italia, since it does not refer at all to Wikimedia Italia, but to Italian press reports about claimed cases against the *Wikimedia Foundation* (not Wikimedia Italia) that have surfaced in the past in the Italian press?
I apologize if my wording has somehow been bad enough to be interpreted as saying something about Wikimedia Italia, but I think a careful reading of my words shows that it refers to certain Italian press stories that made false factual claims about lawsuits that seem never to have filed.
Nothing at all negative was said or intended about Wikimedia Italia.
--Mike Godwin General Counsel Wikimedia Foundation
On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 8:11 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemowiki@gmail.comwrote:
Mike Godwin, 16/09/2009 07:54:
We've had a lot of experience of spurious reports of lawsuits originating in Italy. In the majority of those cases, Wikimedia Foundation itself never receives service of process -- in effect, the cases only really "exist" in Italian media. I'm not saying that's the case here, but we haven't heard anything yet from Italian process servers yet.
I want to be clear: this message is offensive to Wikimedia Italia.
Nemo
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