Hello,
In the beginning of March 2010, a few hundreds files have been deleted on the French Wikisource following a request from Gallimard, a leading French publisher. [1] The Wikimedia Foundation received a request from Editions Gallimard to takedown content from the French Wikisource. This request is based on Editions Gallimard's claim that "Wikisource content in the French language targets the French public, and therefore, under French conflict of laws principles, the copyright law of France applies to this content." They were deleted, according to Mike Godwin, following the Online Copyright Infringement Liability Limitation Act [2]. These texts are from a dozen authors, and some are even in the public domain in France.
In addition, I receive a personal letter, as "the main editor" of these texts, according to Gallimard. We didn't receive any information from the Wikimedia Foundation, and I know the details only because I have been personally involved.
I understand that there is a 15 business days delay after which the material "must be put back up" (cf. Wikipedia) if Gallimard does not file a lawsuit. Now three months later, we didn't receive any information from the Foundation about this, and the texts are still deleted. Many contributors are obviously not very happy, and feel that the Foundation submitted to the pressure of a commercial publisher. Comparing with the National Portrait Gallery affair on Commons, it looks like a double standard was applied.
Just a few days before these texts were deleted, I asked Cary what was the official opinion of Wikimedia Foundation about texts which are in the public domain in USA, but not in France. I was told that "the community is entitled to decide by itself".
Comments?
Regards,
Yann
[1] http://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Demande_des_%C3%A9ditions_Gallimard... [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_Copyright_Infringement_Liability_Limitat...
Hi!
On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 5:43 AM, Yann Forget yannfo@gmail.com wrote:
Hello,
Just a few days before these texts were deleted, I asked Cary what was the official opinion of Wikimedia Foundation about texts which are in the public domain in USA, but not in France. I was told that "the community is entitled to decide by itself".
Comments?
Regards,
Yann
I think it's reasonable to account country of origin copyrights laws too as Commons does, especially with Wikisource editions other then English, where majority of text most likely originated outside of USA. And majority of audience also likely to be outside of USA.
Some even tend to interpret USA public domain that everything published before 1923 (regardless of fact of publication in USA or not) is public domain in USA.
Eugene.
Hello,
2010/6/2 Eugene Zelenko eugene.zelenko@gmail.com:
Hi!
On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 5:43 AM, Yann Forget yannfo@gmail.com wrote:
Hello,
Just a few days before these texts were deleted, I asked Cary what was the official opinion of Wikimedia Foundation about texts which are in the public domain in USA, but not in France. I was told that "the community is entitled to decide by itself".
Comments?
Regards,
Yann
I think it's reasonable to account country of origin copyrights laws too as Commons does, especially with Wikisource editions other then English, where majority of text most likely originated outside of USA. And majority of audience also likely to be outside of USA.
Some even tend to interpret USA public domain that everything published before 1923 (regardless of fact of publication in USA or not) is public domain in USA.
I would not oppose a decision that the country of origin copyrights laws has to be followed, but the issue is, who is going to take this decision? Many Wikisource, including the English Wikisource, include any text published before 1923 regardless of the country of origin. So if an English text copyrighted in UK can be published in Wikisource, why not a French text copyrighted in France? Why should we apply different rules for English and for French languages? (and any other languages for that matter). I think that such a decision has to be taken globally, i.e. by the Wikimedia Foundation. That is what I already requested a long time ago.
Then there is a problem of information. We really need better communication between Wikimedia Foundation and the communities.
Eugene.
Regards,
Yann
On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 11:54 PM, Eugene Zelenko eugene.zelenko@gmail.com wrote:
I think it's reasonable to account country of origin copyrights laws too as Commons does, especially with Wikisource editions other then English, where majority of text most likely originated outside of USA. And majority of audience also likely to be outside of USA.
The Wikisource projects are not a single project like Commons, nor is it structured like Wikipedia.
If I want to add a French text onto Wikisource, I must go to the French Wikisource project, and abide by their policies. I can not do it on English Wikisource.
e.g.
http://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Livre:La_pornocratie,_ou_Les_femmes_dans_les_t...
If I want to read a text that was written in French, I will most likely need to go to French Wikisource, unless there is a English translation has been published and is in the public domain.
Some Wikisource projects do allow "Wikisource" translations, but that is a different barrel of worms.
http://wikisource.org/wiki/WS:COORD
It would be nice to have usage statistics for the Wikisource projects, indicating where their user base is.
-- John Vandenberg
Hoi, The notion that French is spoken only in France is factually wrong. Consequently the claim that French literature targets the French public is arguably wrong as well. Either French is a world language or it is only spoken by the French public, you cannot have it both ways.
Not only in my opinion is French a world language. Thanks, GerardM
On 2 June 2010 14:43, Yann Forget yannfo@gmail.com wrote:
Hello,
In the beginning of March 2010, a few hundreds files have been deleted on the French Wikisource following a request from Gallimard, a leading French publisher. [1] The Wikimedia Foundation received a request from Editions Gallimard to takedown content from the French Wikisource. This request is based on Editions Gallimard's claim that "Wikisource content in the French language targets the French public, and therefore, under French conflict of laws principles, the copyright law of France applies to this content." They were deleted, according to Mike Godwin, following the Online Copyright Infringement Liability Limitation Act [2]. These texts are from a dozen authors, and some are even in the public domain in France.
In addition, I receive a personal letter, as "the main editor" of these texts, according to Gallimard. We didn't receive any information from the Wikimedia Foundation, and I know the details only because I have been personally involved.
I understand that there is a 15 business days delay after which the material "must be put back up" (cf. Wikipedia) if Gallimard does not file a lawsuit. Now three months later, we didn't receive any information from the Foundation about this, and the texts are still deleted. Many contributors are obviously not very happy, and feel that the Foundation submitted to the pressure of a commercial publisher. Comparing with the National Portrait Gallery affair on Commons, it looks like a double standard was applied.
Just a few days before these texts were deleted, I asked Cary what was the official opinion of Wikimedia Foundation about texts which are in the public domain in USA, but not in France. I was told that "the community is entitled to decide by itself".
Comments?
Regards,
Yann
[1] http://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Demande_des_%C3%A9ditions_Gallimard... [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_Copyright_Infringement_Liability_Limitat...
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Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
The notion that French is spoken only in France is factually wrong. Consequently the claim that French literature targets the French public is arguably wrong as well. Either French is a world language or it is only spoken by the French public, you cannot have it both ways.
Not only in my opinion is French a world language. [...]
Yann's (English) quote of Gallimard's claim doesn't say any- where that French literature targets the French public /ex- clusively/.
Tim
Hoi, When I read: "Wikisource content in the French language targets the French public, and therefore, under French conflict of laws principles, the copyright law of France applies to this content." I do read the French public. Wikisource does not target the French public per se. Thanks, Gerard<
On 2 June 2010 17:05, Tim Landscheidt tim@tim-landscheidt.de wrote:
Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
The notion that French is spoken only in France is factually wrong. Consequently the claim that French literature targets the French public
is
arguably wrong as well. Either French is a world language or it is only spoken by the French public, you cannot have it both ways.
Not only in my opinion is French a world language. [...]
Yann's (English) quote of Gallimard's claim doesn't say any- where that French literature targets the French public /ex- clusively/.
Tim
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Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
When I read: "Wikisource content in the French language targets the French public, and therefore, under French conflict of laws principles, the copyright law of France applies to this content." I do read the French public. Wikisource does not target the French public per se. [...]
We should definitely try that in the next fundraiser: "Imag- ine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge - except the French pub- lic."
Bonne nuit, Tim
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