Regarding https://blog.wikimedia.org/2017/02/13/niels-christian-nielsen-endowment-boar...
What have the funds of the organizations Nielsen manages returned? Have they matched the returns of commercial endowment-grade mutual funds? I refer to my comments here:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2016-December/085694.html
Has the Endowment Advisory Board met yet? If so, where are its minutes? If not, when will it meet and where will the agenda and minutes be published?
Sincerely, Jim Salsman
+1 on the request for links to all the past meeting agendas and publicly published minutes. I will be very interested to read any declarations of conflicts of interest. The board is intended to eventually control $100,000,000, so should be seen to be applying absolutely the most transparent and well governed processes.
I am surprised to discover that anyone that has served as the chairman of 12 companies and "has advised governments in Scandinavia, Spain, Portugal, the UK, Australia, New Zealand, the US, Canada, and Turkey" does not have a Wikipedia article, at least I have yet to find one.
Could someone work on creating one please? It would be great to read a profile that has all the nuts & bolts, rather than written with PR in mind. No doubt the blog post [1] and staff profiles at the University of California Berkeley and the Copenhagen Business School [2] should be reliable enough starting point for Wikipedia.
Links: 1. https://blog.wikimedia.org/2017/02/13/niels-christian-nielsen-endowment-boar... 2. http://www.cbs.dk/en/research/departments-and-centres/department-of-finance/...
Thanks, Fae
On 13 February 2017 at 19:54, James Salsman jsalsman@gmail.com wrote:
Regarding https://blog.wikimedia.org/2017/02/13/niels-christian-nielsen-endowment-boar...
What have the funds of the organizations Nielsen manages returned? Have they matched the returns of commercial endowment-grade mutual funds? I refer to my comments here:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2016-December/085694.html
Has the Endowment Advisory Board met yet? If so, where are its minutes? If not, when will it meet and where will the agenda and minutes be published?
The second link you offered, Fae, is the wrong Niels Christian Nielsen. /a
On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 12:11 PM, Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote:
+1 on the request for links to all the past meeting agendas and publicly published minutes. I will be very interested to read any declarations of conflicts of interest. The board is intended to eventually control $100,000,000, so should be seen to be applying absolutely the most transparent and well governed processes.
I am surprised to discover that anyone that has served as the chairman of 12 companies and "has advised governments in Scandinavia, Spain, Portugal, the UK, Australia, New Zealand, the US, Canada, and Turkey" does not have a Wikipedia article, at least I have yet to find one.
Could someone work on creating one please? It would be great to read a profile that has all the nuts & bolts, rather than written with PR in mind. No doubt the blog post [1] and staff profiles at the University of California Berkeley and the Copenhagen Business School [2] should be reliable enough starting point for Wikipedia.
Links:
nielsen-endowment-board 2. http://www.cbs.dk/en/research/departments-and-centres/ department-of-finance/staff/ncnfi
Thanks, Fae
On 13 February 2017 at 19:54, James Salsman jsalsman@gmail.com wrote:
Regarding https://blog.wikimedia.org/2017/02/13/niels-christian-
nielsen-endowment-board/
What have the funds of the organizations Nielsen manages returned? Have they matched the returns of commercial endowment-grade mutual funds? I refer to my comments here:
December/085694.html
Has the Endowment Advisory Board met yet? If so, where are its minutes?
If
not, when will it meet and where will the agenda and minutes be
published?
-- faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Not quite what you were after, Fæ, but I've started a draft of an enwp article on the endowment at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mike_Peel/Wikimedia_Endowment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mike_Peel/Wikimedia_Endowment If anyone else wants to help write this, then please edit away!
I'm concerned that Nielsen is being referred to as a 'permanent member' of the board - doesn't the advisory board have terms? Also, will we be seeing community members being appointed (or elected) to this board at some point?
BTW, the Wikimedia blog doesn't provide much information to the autofill references function on enwp! Also, we only seem to have freely-licensed images of Jimmy, and none of the rest of the advisory board - can something be done about that?
Thanks, Mike
On 13 Feb 2017, at 18:57, Anna Stillwell astillwell@wikimedia.org wrote:
The second link you offered, Fae, is the wrong Niels Christian Nielsen. /a
On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 12:11 PM, Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote:
+1 on the request for links to all the past meeting agendas and publicly published minutes. I will be very interested to read any declarations of conflicts of interest. The board is intended to eventually control $100,000,000, so should be seen to be applying absolutely the most transparent and well governed processes.
I am surprised to discover that anyone that has served as the chairman of 12 companies and "has advised governments in Scandinavia, Spain, Portugal, the UK, Australia, New Zealand, the US, Canada, and Turkey" does not have a Wikipedia article, at least I have yet to find one.
Could someone work on creating one please? It would be great to read a profile that has all the nuts & bolts, rather than written with PR in mind. No doubt the blog post [1] and staff profiles at the University of California Berkeley and the Copenhagen Business School [2] should be reliable enough starting point for Wikipedia.
Links:
nielsen-endowment-board 2. http://www.cbs.dk/en/research/departments-and-centres/ department-of-finance/staff/ncnfi
Thanks, Fae
On 13 February 2017 at 19:54, James Salsman jsalsman@gmail.com wrote:
Regarding https://blog.wikimedia.org/2017/02/13/niels-christian-
nielsen-endowment-board/
What have the funds of the organizations Nielsen manages returned? Have they matched the returns of commercial endowment-grade mutual funds? I refer to my comments here:
December/085694.html
Has the Endowment Advisory Board met yet? If so, where are its minutes?
If
not, when will it meet and where will the agenda and minutes be
published?
-- faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
-- "If you have knowledge, let others light their candles in it." - Margaret Fuller
Anna Stillwell Chargée d’Affaires / VP Wikimedia Foundation 415.806.1536 *www.wikimediafoundation.org http://www.wikimediafoundation.org* _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
I find all of these to be deeply non relevant. Though they might be relevant according to standard en.wiki practice, I wonder whatever someone would had written a line about a to-be-created relatively small endowment of a website(s) or people managing it, unless it was "our" website(s).
Also I disagree with Wikipedia doing something similar to investigative journalism (above all for "internal" usage) rather than being a "simple" encyclopedia.
Vito
2017-02-14 1:31 GMT+01:00 Michael Peel email@mikepeel.net:
Not quite what you were after, Fæ, but I've started a draft of an enwp article on the endowment at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mike_Peel/Wikimedia_Endowment < https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mike_Peel/Wikimedia_Endowment%3E If anyone else wants to help write this, then please edit away!
I'm concerned that Nielsen is being referred to as a 'permanent member' of the board - doesn't the advisory board have terms? Also, will we be seeing community members being appointed (or elected) to this board at some point?
BTW, the Wikimedia blog doesn't provide much information to the autofill references function on enwp! Also, we only seem to have freely-licensed images of Jimmy, and none of the rest of the advisory board - can something be done about that?
Thanks, Mike
On 13 Feb 2017, at 18:57, Anna Stillwell astillwell@wikimedia.org
wrote:
The second link you offered, Fae, is the wrong Niels Christian Nielsen. /a
On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 12:11 PM, Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote:
+1 on the request for links to all the past meeting agendas and publicly published minutes. I will be very interested to read any declarations of conflicts of interest. The board is intended to eventually control $100,000,000, so should be seen to be applying absolutely the most transparent and well governed processes.
I am surprised to discover that anyone that has served as the chairman of 12 companies and "has advised governments in Scandinavia, Spain, Portugal, the UK, Australia, New Zealand, the US, Canada, and Turkey" does not have a Wikipedia article, at least I have yet to find one.
Could someone work on creating one please? It would be great to read a profile that has all the nuts & bolts, rather than written with PR in mind. No doubt the blog post [1] and staff profiles at the University of California Berkeley and the Copenhagen Business School [2] should be reliable enough starting point for Wikipedia.
Links:
nielsen-endowment-board 2. http://www.cbs.dk/en/research/departments-and-centres/ department-of-finance/staff/ncnfi
Thanks, Fae
On 13 February 2017 at 19:54, James Salsman jsalsman@gmail.com wrote:
Regarding https://blog.wikimedia.org/2017/02/13/niels-christian-
nielsen-endowment-board/
What have the funds of the organizations Nielsen manages returned? Have they matched the returns of commercial endowment-grade mutual funds? I refer to my comments here:
December/085694.html
Has the Endowment Advisory Board met yet? If so, where are its minutes?
If
not, when will it meet and where will the agenda and minutes be
published?
-- faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
-- "If you have knowledge, let others light their candles in it." - Margaret Fuller
Anna Stillwell Chargée d’Affaires / VP Wikimedia Foundation 415.806.1536 *www.wikimediafoundation.org http://www.wikimediafoundation.org* _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Wikimedia-l
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What Vito said. The Wikimedia Foundation Endowment is *not* notable, and in fact if a similar article had been written about a similar non-Wikimedia related endowment, I'd be busy trying to figure out who the paid editor was who was creating such an article. Because, yes, that draft is precisely what I'd expect to see from a paid editor. That it's being written by an experienced and well-respected Wikimedian doesn't mean it's a notable endowment. Once it gets to USD 100 million, then we can start talking about whether or not it deserves an article.
This entire thread is a serious symptom of the self-referencing and parochialism that many outsiders see within our community. The circular argument that, since someone has something to do with a "board" of Wikimedia, they must by definition be notable is pretty seriously problematic. *We* think Wikimedia is important, but really there are very, very few past or present Wikimedia board members who are notable outside of a very small circle. We're really not that big or important of a charity. And there isn't a person participating in this thread who is unaware of the real harms that have come as a result of the publishing of biographical information of notable-only-on-Wikipedia people. Please stop doing this.
Risker/Anne
On 13 February 2017 at 19:43, Vi to vituzzu.wiki@gmail.com wrote:
I find all of these to be deeply non relevant. Though they might be relevant according to standard en.wiki practice, I wonder whatever someone would had written a line about a to-be-created relatively small endowment of a website(s) or people managing it, unless it was "our" website(s).
Also I disagree with Wikipedia doing something similar to investigative journalism (above all for "internal" usage) rather than being a "simple" encyclopedia.
Vito
2017-02-14 1:31 GMT+01:00 Michael Peel email@mikepeel.net:
Not quite what you were after, Fæ, but I've started a draft of an enwp article on the endowment at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mike_Peel/Wikimedia_Endowment < https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mike_Peel/Wikimedia_Endowment%3E If anyone else wants to help write this, then please edit away!
I'm concerned that Nielsen is being referred to as a 'permanent member'
of
the board - doesn't the advisory board have terms? Also, will we be
seeing
community members being appointed (or elected) to this board at some
point?
BTW, the Wikimedia blog doesn't provide much information to the autofill references function on enwp! Also, we only seem to have freely-licensed images of Jimmy, and none of the rest of the advisory board - can
something
be done about that?
Thanks, Mike
On 13 Feb 2017, at 18:57, Anna Stillwell astillwell@wikimedia.org
wrote:
The second link you offered, Fae, is the wrong Niels Christian Nielsen. /a
On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 12:11 PM, Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote:
+1 on the request for links to all the past meeting agendas and publicly published minutes. I will be very interested to read any declarations of conflicts of interest. The board is intended to eventually control $100,000,000, so should be seen to be applying absolutely the most transparent and well governed processes.
I am surprised to discover that anyone that has served as the chairman of 12 companies and "has advised governments in Scandinavia, Spain, Portugal, the UK, Australia, New Zealand, the US, Canada, and Turkey" does not have a Wikipedia article, at least I have yet to find one.
Could someone work on creating one please? It would be great to read a profile that has all the nuts & bolts, rather than written with PR in mind. No doubt the blog post [1] and staff profiles at the University of California Berkeley and the Copenhagen Business School [2] should be reliable enough starting point for Wikipedia.
Links:
nielsen-endowment-board 2. http://www.cbs.dk/en/research/departments-and-centres/ department-of-finance/staff/ncnfi
Thanks, Fae
On 13 February 2017 at 19:54, James Salsman jsalsman@gmail.com
wrote:
Regarding https://blog.wikimedia.org/2017/02/13/niels-christian-
nielsen-endowment-board/
What have the funds of the organizations Nielsen manages returned?
Have
they matched the returns of commercial endowment-grade mutual funds?
I
refer to my comments here:
December/085694.html
Has the Endowment Advisory Board met yet? If so, where are its
minutes?
If
not, when will it meet and where will the agenda and minutes be
published?
-- faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
-- "If you have knowledge, let others light their candles in it." -
Margaret
Fuller
Anna Stillwell Chargée d’Affaires / VP Wikimedia Foundation 415.806.1536 *www.wikimediafoundation.org http://www.wikimediafoundation.org* _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
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I tend to think that we stay away from writing about Wikipedia topics in Wikipedia too much, but I agree with the notability concerns - hence why I've started the page in user space rather than article space. If notability is proven (which isn't just a factor of how much money the endowment has), then perhaps it can be moved to article space. It's still an interesting/useful way of summarising the available info about the endowment, I think (at least for myself).
Thanks, Mike P.S. to be clear, I'm not a paid editor!
On 14 Feb 2017, at 01:18, Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
What Vito said. The Wikimedia Foundation Endowment is *not* notable, and in fact if a similar article had been written about a similar non-Wikimedia related endowment, I'd be busy trying to figure out who the paid editor was who was creating such an article. Because, yes, that draft is precisely what I'd expect to see from a paid editor. That it's being written by an experienced and well-respected Wikimedian doesn't mean it's a notable endowment. Once it gets to USD 100 million, then we can start talking about whether or not it deserves an article.
This entire thread is a serious symptom of the self-referencing and parochialism that many outsiders see within our community. The circular argument that, since someone has something to do with a "board" of Wikimedia, they must by definition be notable is pretty seriously problematic. *We* think Wikimedia is important, but really there are very, very few past or present Wikimedia board members who are notable outside of a very small circle. We're really not that big or important of a charity. And there isn't a person participating in this thread who is unaware of the real harms that have come as a result of the publishing of biographical information of notable-only-on-Wikipedia people. Please stop doing this.
Risker/Anne
On 13 February 2017 at 19:43, Vi to vituzzu.wiki@gmail.com wrote:
I find all of these to be deeply non relevant. Though they might be relevant according to standard en.wiki practice, I wonder whatever someone would had written a line about a to-be-created relatively small endowment of a website(s) or people managing it, unless it was "our" website(s).
Also I disagree with Wikipedia doing something similar to investigative journalism (above all for "internal" usage) rather than being a "simple" encyclopedia.
Vito
2017-02-14 1:31 GMT+01:00 Michael Peel email@mikepeel.net:
Not quite what you were after, Fæ, but I've started a draft of an enwp article on the endowment at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mike_Peel/Wikimedia_Endowment < https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mike_Peel/Wikimedia_Endowment%3E If anyone else wants to help write this, then please edit away!
I'm concerned that Nielsen is being referred to as a 'permanent member'
of
the board - doesn't the advisory board have terms? Also, will we be
seeing
community members being appointed (or elected) to this board at some
point?
BTW, the Wikimedia blog doesn't provide much information to the autofill references function on enwp! Also, we only seem to have freely-licensed images of Jimmy, and none of the rest of the advisory board - can
something
be done about that?
Thanks, Mike
On 13 Feb 2017, at 18:57, Anna Stillwell astillwell@wikimedia.org
wrote:
The second link you offered, Fae, is the wrong Niels Christian Nielsen. /a
On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 12:11 PM, Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote:
+1 on the request for links to all the past meeting agendas and publicly published minutes. I will be very interested to read any declarations of conflicts of interest. The board is intended to eventually control $100,000,000, so should be seen to be applying absolutely the most transparent and well governed processes.
I am surprised to discover that anyone that has served as the chairman of 12 companies and "has advised governments in Scandinavia, Spain, Portugal, the UK, Australia, New Zealand, the US, Canada, and Turkey" does not have a Wikipedia article, at least I have yet to find one.
Could someone work on creating one please? It would be great to read a profile that has all the nuts & bolts, rather than written with PR in mind. No doubt the blog post [1] and staff profiles at the University of California Berkeley and the Copenhagen Business School [2] should be reliable enough starting point for Wikipedia.
Links:
nielsen-endowment-board 2. http://www.cbs.dk/en/research/departments-and-centres/ department-of-finance/staff/ncnfi
Thanks, Fae
On 13 February 2017 at 19:54, James Salsman jsalsman@gmail.com
wrote:
Regarding https://blog.wikimedia.org/2017/02/13/niels-christian-
nielsen-endowment-board/
What have the funds of the organizations Nielsen manages returned?
Have
they matched the returns of commercial endowment-grade mutual funds?
I
refer to my comments here:
December/085694.html
Has the Endowment Advisory Board met yet? If so, where are its
minutes?
If
not, when will it meet and where will the agenda and minutes be
published?
-- faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
-- "If you have knowledge, let others light their candles in it." -
Margaret
Fuller
Anna Stillwell Chargée d’Affaires / VP Wikimedia Foundation 415.806.1536 *www.wikimediafoundation.org http://www.wikimediafoundation.org* _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
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Risker, I agree that Wikimedians and WMF staff have, on occasion, been too quick to add information about WMF employees to English Wikipedia. I imagine that the same could be true for WMF Board, WMF Endowment Board, and Wikimedia community members, although I'm not personally aware of that happening. However, unless I am overlooking something, there is no such thing as a dollar value criteria in determining notability. And I would disagree that "We're really not that big or important of a charity." WMF isn't the Ford Foundation but it is still notable and influential, with a sizable budget and hundreds of employees.
Vito, I agree that original research does not belong in Wikipedia namespace. However, investigative reporting, editorializing, and original research are routinely done by the *Signpost*, WMF, and other Wikimedians outside of article space.
Pine
*Correction: I agree that original research does not belong in Wikipedia *main*space. Sorry!
Pine
On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 9:30 AM, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
Risker, I agree that Wikimedians and WMF staff have, on occasion, been too quick to add information about WMF employees to English Wikipedia. I imagine that the same could be true for WMF Board, WMF Endowment Board, and Wikimedia community members, although I'm not personally aware of that happening. However, unless I am overlooking something, there is no such thing as a dollar value criteria in determining notability. And I would disagree that "We're really not that big or important of a charity." WMF isn't the Ford Foundation but it is still notable and influential, with a sizable budget and hundreds of employees.
Vito, I agree that original research does not belong in Wikipedia namespace. However, investigative reporting, editorializing, and original research are routinely done by the *Signpost*, WMF, and other Wikimedians outside of article space.
Pine
My understanding is that the signficant mention in independent reliable sources is what is required to write an encyclopaedia article about something. Passing mention in reliable sources such as peer-reviewed academic journals establishes that something exists. Passing mention in news sources merely establishes that someone has issued a press release.
On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 5:33 PM, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
*Correction: I agree that original research does not belong in Wikipedia *main*space. Sorry!
Pine
On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 9:30 AM, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
Risker, I agree that Wikimedians and WMF staff have, on occasion, been
too
quick to add information about WMF employees to English Wikipedia. I imagine that the same could be true for WMF Board, WMF Endowment Board,
and
Wikimedia community members, although I'm not personally aware of that happening. However, unless I am overlooking something, there is no such thing as a dollar value criteria in determining notability. And I would disagree that "We're really not that big or important of a charity." WMF isn't the Ford Foundation but it is still notable and influential, with a sizable budget and hundreds of employees.
Vito, I agree that original research does not belong in Wikipedia namespace. However, investigative reporting, editorializing, and original research are routinely done by the *Signpost*, WMF, and other Wikimedians outside of article space.
Pine
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