In a message dated 10/3/2010 8:14:18 AM Pacific Daylight Time, peter.damian@btinternet.com writes:
Will, can you try and focus on the three questions and keep this on-topic.
Is there a quality problem in certain areas. Yes or no?
If there is a problem, are there any underlying or systematic reasons?
If there are any underlying or systematic reasons, can they easily be
addressed?
1. One of the foundational works that was used to create Wikipedia was the 1911 EB. Wherever that was flawed, we started out flawed. I'm sure there are some who would say that this never occurred, because they can't remember that far back. However should anyone wish to add any article from the 1911EB, say on Truth or Avicenna or even to incorporate or restructure such an article based on that, they are quite free to so do.
2. Wikipedia has grown like a crystal grows in the midst of impurities. There are impurities perhaps at the heart of the crystal, and it's also not uniform and spherical. When I do a search on some medieval person (my area on concentration) of import, I expect more often than not, to find.. something. In almost every single case, almost every, the article is lopsided, unsupported, has wild claims and specific years which we do not in fact know... I don't blame the project for these flaws, I see them as a way to contribute. I remember with what we started.
3. I would suggest Peter, should you think it possible, to start a new project which is devoted to Philosophy or even to the Humanities, which I think is too broad personally, and build it up and use it as a basis from which others can make additions to Wikipedia. That's what I do. If I encounter, as I sometimes do, an article that is so utterly lacking, that I cannot simply make a few changes to it, I start fresh, from primary and secondary sources and built my own article, in one of my own projects. Then sometimes, when I'm satisfied at the thing of great beauty I've created, I will adds bits of it back to Wikipedia.
Flaws in Wikipedia are areas of opportunity for other projects to fill. At the present time. Wikipedia is not the sole project which exists in this area.
W
----- Original Message ----- From: WJhonson@aol.com To: foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2010 4:33 PM Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Has Wikipedia changed since 2005?
- One of the foundational works that was used to create Wikipedia was
the 1911 EB. Wherever that was flawed, we started out flawed. I'm sure there are some who would say that this never occurred, because they can't remember that far back. However should anyone wish to add any article from the 1911EB, say on Truth or Avicenna or even to incorporate or restructure such an article based on that, they are quite free to so do.
None of the problem articles incorporate much text from the Britannica 1911. Some of the biography problem articles have large bleeding chunks taken from the Catholic Encyclopedia. This is out of date and also incorporates an obvious POV that is out of place with modern scholarship.
2... In almost every single case, almost every, the article is lopsided, unsupported, has wild claims and specific years which we do not in fact know... I don't blame the project for these flaws, I see them as a way to contribute. I remember with what we started.
That is an answer to question 1, not question 2. Question 1: are there any problems.
Question 2: If there is a problem, are there any underlying or systematic reasons? You seem to imply there are problems. OK, are there any systematic reasons? (Or is it just random, that the humanities happens by chance to be one of those areas that have problems?). Do you agree with the analysis put forward by Sarah, namely that it is the problem of persistent, aggressive editors who know very little but believe they are experts? If not, give evidence that these are not a problem.
Try and address these questions in a systematic and logical fashion.
- I would suggest Peter, should you think it possible, to start a new
project which is devoted to Philosophy or even to the Humanities, which I think is too broad personally, and build it up and use it as a basis from which others can make additions to Wikipedia. That's what I do. If I encounter, as I sometimes do, an article that is so utterly lacking, that I cannot simply make a few changes to it, I start fresh, from primary and secondary sources and built my own article, in one of my own projects. Then sometimes, when I'm satisfied at the thing of great beauty I've created, I will adds bits of it back to Wikipedia.
Question 3 was: If there are any underlying or systematic reasons, can they easily be addressed?
Since you haven't said whether there are any underlying or systematic reasons, I don't see how you can answer question 3. Or were these 3 answers of your own that occurred to you at random and are unrelated to my 3 questions?
Peter
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