"*The Foundation does not care so much of the French-speaking contributors*". This harsh sentence is the translation of a statement in French, I've just said in a conversation a week ago at the Francophone Wikiconvention held last weekend in Brussels. The statement may seem excessive, because the Foundation does things for the Francophone community as well as for other communities (and its website is fairly well translated into French). But it reflected my feeling, shared by my three interlocutors, all non-French, facing that no Foundation high-level members were present to this Wikiconvention: no executive director, nor members of the Board, nor any level-C staff. In an another conversation, where the subject came up over again, someone said this absence was offensive. I do not know if it reflects the majority of attendees feelings but with varying degrees, I would said it was widely shared.
In 2017, for the Francophone Wikiconvention in Strasbourg we had a very quick visit of Katherine Maher, in 2018, a simple video message and in 2019 ... nothing. At the same time, the Francophone Wikiconvention has stepped up with ever more participants, always more countries represented. This year, it brought together more than 220 Francophones, Algerian, Belgian, Beninese, Cameroonian, Canadian, French, Guinean, Ivorian, Swiss and Tunisian contributors, and I may forget some, with varied and enriching conferences and meetings. A huge success, very well organized by employees but also by several volunteers, who dedicated time and energy. This Wikiconvention and the projects and achievements submitted have shown the French-speaking Wikimedia community vitality, which will continue to grow. FYI, French is foreseen, thanks to Africa, to be the most rapidly growing languages in the next twenty years and will be the mother tongue or the language used for communication for more than 8% of the world's population in thirty years' time. But my reaction would have been the same if I had attended an Arabic, Chinese, Spanish, Swahili-speaking or any other important languages Wikiconvention.
So yes, this Wikiconvention is not in English. Fortunately, not all Wikimedia meetings are in English. In a previous discussion on this mailing list about the question of whether or not it is appropriate to continue Wimania, one of the participants argued that unlike other Wikimedia meetings, anyone could attend Wikmania. It may be obvious for those who have English as a mother tongue or for Northern Europeans for whom English is almost a second mother tongue but this is false: English is spoken only by a small minority in the world, less than one human in six. So only one human in six or seven could attend Wikimania or any other english-speaking conferences or meetings (the case of the vast majority of global Wikimedia conferences). I do not deny a common working language usefulness but a Wikiconvention in French, as I hope other languages ones will be more to come soon, allows all non-English speaking Francophones to participate in the Wikimedia movement and above all, help them to meet our common goal of spread freeknowledge.The movement talks a lot about its efforts to overcome differents gaps (gender, LGBT,...) and it's rightly pointed, these topics are important. But it simply forget the language gap and the almost exclusive use of English excludes a very large majority.
So why no high level Foundation members in Brussels ? I was told that Valerie D'Costa, the new Chief of Community Engagement, should initially be there but finally told she will not. But then, no other member could then replace her and why only one Foundation representant given the part of French language in the WM projects ? Perhaps no Foundation Board or high level member speaks French or feels she/he speaks good enough. But with more than 220 attendants at the FWC, it would have been easy to find volonteers with a good level of English to provide simultaneous translation in discussions with other non-English speaking participants or to translate conferences.A higher-level representation would have helped the Foundation top level to gain more insight into Wikimedian French-speaking community and enabled this community to have a direct access to the Foundation, like in Wikimania. That would have helped bridging the gap between these "two worlds". Because this gap is real. In the 2011 Finance Meeting in Paris, during workshops where a Board member was in each group (Jan-Bart de Vreede for mine), me and another non english-speaking chapter head (she/he will recognize her/himself) had made the comment that we had the impression in our relation with the Foundation of "*colliding with an Anglo-Saxon wall*". I notice that despite more Foundation staff diversity in recent years, French speaking organizations would probably still have the same feeling and clearly many French-speaking wikimedians feel that gap.
It is sad that the Foundation, which is very demanding with Francophone chapters, does not apply itself to these demands with the Francophone community. FYI the next French-speaking Wikconvention will be held on WE 31 october/1 November 2019 in Tunis. Save the date.
Regards
Thank you Thierry. To be honnest a few of us were really waiting for Valerie D'Costa, the new Chief of Community Engagement because we had questions for her about the new rapid grant funding agenda which seems totally inadapted to volunteer’s need in terms of flexibility. One has to wait a soecific month for Art+feminism and very often the timing has not been adapted to when the events are actually taking place. For a volunteer this is way too procedural. We need more flexibility. We had other questions regarding the departure of several people which were very important for the gender gap. So ... Some of us were disappointed indeed. Kind regards, Natacha
Le 15 sept. 2019 à 20:02, Thierry Coudray tcoudray@gmail.com a écrit :
Valerie D'Costa, the new Chief of Community Engagement,
As far as Art+Feminism goes, this project concentrates on biographies of female artists. The English Wikipedia project "Women in Red" is open 24x7 all year round and concentrates on biographies of women on English Wikipedia, period. So you can take all of your local Wikipedia questions about A+F to your local WiR women for each non-English Wikipedia, and if there is no overlap yet, I suggest starting your own local A+F/WiR in your local Wikipedia. We should probably start a multi-lingual one for Commons, since it has proven so difficult to get pictures of female artists to illustrate articles about them.
On Sun, Sep 15, 2019 at 8:27 PM Natacha Rault via Wikimedia-l < wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
Thank you Thierry. To be honnest a few of us were really waiting for Valerie D'Costa, the new Chief of Community Engagement because we had questions for her about the new rapid grant funding agenda which seems totally inadapted to volunteer’s need in terms of flexibility. One has to wait a soecific month for Art+feminism and very often the timing has not been adapted to when the events are actually taking place. For a volunteer this is way too procedural. We need more flexibility. We had other questions regarding the departure of several people which were very important for the gender gap. So ... Some of us were disappointed indeed. Kind regards, Natacha
Le 15 sept. 2019 à 20:02, Thierry Coudray tcoudray@gmail.com a écrit :
Valerie D'Costa, the new Chief of Community Engagement,
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Hi Gereon;
"German communities are established and have strong chapters. I suppose the same applies to the French language communites." => Well, no. The situation is different because the WikiConvention Francophone is half African. African french-speaking affiliates are not strong, they are medium-sized or small User Groups, often struggling. And French-speaking Africans are left out of events like WikiIndaba because they don't speak English... so they actually never get to see the WMF. Also, as far as I know, the German community is way better established, has a lot of employees and has way stronger ties with WMF on a regular basis. And German people generally speak better English so they can access more information, go to Wikimania, etc.
Now I'm not sure about what should be done, but I just wanted to challenge this comparison because the communities are in fact very different and face very distinct challenges.
On Mon, Sep 16, 2019 at 8:45 AM Jane Darnell jane023@gmail.com wrote:
As far as Art+Feminism goes, this project concentrates on biographies of female artists. The English Wikipedia project "Women in Red" is open 24x7 all year round and concentrates on biographies of women on English Wikipedia, period. So you can take all of your local Wikipedia questions about A+F to your local WiR women for each non-English Wikipedia, and if there is no overlap yet, I suggest starting your own local A+F/WiR in your local Wikipedia. We should probably start a multi-lingual one for Commons, since it has proven so difficult to get pictures of female artists to illustrate articles about them.
On Sun, Sep 15, 2019 at 8:27 PM Natacha Rault via Wikimedia-l < wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
Thank you Thierry. To be honnest a few of us were really waiting for Valerie D'Costa, the new Chief of Community Engagement because we had questions for her about the new rapid grant funding agenda which seems totally inadapted to volunteer’s need in terms of flexibility. One has to wait a soecific month for Art+feminism and very often the timing has not been adapted to when the events are actually taking place. For a
volunteer
this is way too procedural. We need more flexibility. We had other questions regarding the departure of several people which were very important for the gender gap. So ... Some of us were disappointed indeed. Kind regards, Natacha
Le 15 sept. 2019 à 20:02, Thierry Coudray tcoudray@gmail.com a
écrit :
Valerie D'Costa, the new Chief of Community Engagement,
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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Sorry to say Jane, but your answer strikes me as being completely beside the point :(
The issue Natachat was raising is related to funding our local activities, a situation currently made difficult by the new rapid grant system (*) She gave the example of the Art and Feminism, but this is a single example and other projects are also impacted by those changes. I do not see how a problem with WMF funding scheme could be solved by talking to other volunteers. I very much doubt Natachat would need Valerie to explain her how to set up and run a local project on gender-gap issues. We are slightly beyond this...
The bottom line is that the community engagement department changed a LOT in the past few months, with arrivals and departures. And this department is essential for the smoothness of volunteer-run initiatives.
So yes, it was to be expected that the project leads would have been happy to meet WMF staff to have the opportunity to better understand the changes and the new directions the WMF is heading to.
Florence
* in the new system, grant requests for some targetted drive (such as art and feminism or wiki loves) must be made during specific time frame. The idea in itself is not a bad one and could help the grant team to be more efficient. The problem is that the agenda is too tight, which means volunteers have to start activities before they get the financial support and to a certain extent even start the activities before they get the approval of support.
Le 16/09/2019 à 08:45, Jane Darnell a écrit :
As far as Art+Feminism goes, this project concentrates on biographies of female artists. The English Wikipedia project "Women in Red" is open 24x7 all year round and concentrates on biographies of women on English Wikipedia, period. So you can take all of your local Wikipedia questions about A+F to your local WiR women for each non-English Wikipedia, and if there is no overlap yet, I suggest starting your own local A+F/WiR in your local Wikipedia. We should probably start a multi-lingual one for Commons, since it has proven so difficult to get pictures of female artists to illustrate articles about them.
On Sun, Sep 15, 2019 at 8:27 PM Natacha Rault via Wikimedia-l < wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
Thank you Thierry. To be honnest a few of us were really waiting for Valerie D'Costa, the new Chief of Community Engagement because we had questions for her about the new rapid grant funding agenda which seems totally inadapted to volunteer’s need in terms of flexibility. One has to wait a soecific month for Art+feminism and very often the timing has not been adapted to when the events are actually taking place. For a volunteer this is way too procedural. We need more flexibility. We had other questions regarding the departure of several people which were very important for the gender gap. So ... Some of us were disappointed indeed. Kind regards, Natacha
Le 15 sept. 2019 à 20:02, Thierry Coudray tcoudray@gmail.com a écrit :
Valerie D'Costa, the new Chief of Community Engagement,
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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I think Florence resumed quite well what I was trying to express. It’s not a criticism - its a fact : I would have been happy to chat with her to understand the ligic behind the recent rapid grant changes. Kind regards, Nattes à chat
Le 16 sept. 2019 à 13:14, Florence Devouard fdevouard@gmail.com a écrit :
Sorry to say Jane, but your answer strikes me as being completely beside the point :(
The issue Natachat was raising is related to funding our local activities, a situation currently made difficult by the new rapid grant system (*) She gave the example of the Art and Feminism, but this is a single example and other projects are also impacted by those changes. I do not see how a problem with WMF funding scheme could be solved by talking to other volunteers. I very much doubt Natachat would need Valerie to explain her how to set up and run a local project on gender-gap issues. We are slightly beyond this...
The bottom line is that the community engagement department changed a LOT in the past few months, with arrivals and departures. And this department is essential for the smoothness of volunteer-run initiatives.
So yes, it was to be expected that the project leads would have been happy to meet WMF staff to have the opportunity to better understand the changes and the new directions the WMF is heading to.
Florence
- in the new system, grant requests for some targetted drive (such as art and feminism or wiki loves) must be made during specific time frame. The idea in itself is not a bad one and could help the grant team to be more efficient. The problem is that the agenda is too tight, which means volunteers have to start activities before they get the financial support and to a certain extent even start the activities before they get the approval of support.
Le 16/09/2019 à 08:45, Jane Darnell a écrit : As far as Art+Feminism goes, this project concentrates on biographies of female artists. The English Wikipedia project "Women in Red" is open 24x7 all year round and concentrates on biographies of women on English Wikipedia, period. So you can take all of your local Wikipedia questions about A+F to your local WiR women for each non-English Wikipedia, and if there is no overlap yet, I suggest starting your own local A+F/WiR in your local Wikipedia. We should probably start a multi-lingual one for Commons, since it has proven so difficult to get pictures of female artists to illustrate articles about them. On Sun, Sep 15, 2019 at 8:27 PM Natacha Rault via Wikimedia-l < wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
Thank you Thierry. To be honnest a few of us were really waiting for Valerie D'Costa, the new Chief of Community Engagement because we had questions for her about the new rapid grant funding agenda which seems totally inadapted to volunteer’s need in terms of flexibility. One has to wait a soecific month for Art+feminism and very often the timing has not been adapted to when the events are actually taking place. For a volunteer this is way too procedural. We need more flexibility. We had other questions regarding the departure of several people which were very important for the gender gap. So ... Some of us were disappointed indeed. Kind regards, Natacha
Le 15 sept. 2019 à 20:02, Thierry Coudray tcoudray@gmail.com a écrit :
Valerie D'Costa, the new Chief of Community Engagement,
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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Please note that Foundation website is translated in French, but not in many other languages (including Italian, mine)... I don’t know why they don’t give the chance to translate.
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I am not entirely sure how this connects to the topic of the thread.
However, I feel I should note that we are indeed interested in translating into other languages, and have been seeking people to help with translation of the website and other organization materials: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Organization_communications_t...
I do not want to derail this conversation, so will leave it at that and encourage you to utilize that page or the website's Meta-Wiki page to discuss this further, as this thread seems to be about other topics.
-greg
On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 9:28 AM Ferdinando Traversa < ferdi.traversa@gmail.com> wrote:
Please note that Foundation website is translated in French, but not in many other languages (including Italian, mine)... I don’t know why they don’t give the chance to translate.
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Hey Gregory,
Are you planing to include Portuguese in the list of target languages?
Best, Paulo
Gregory Varnum gregory.varnum@gmail.com escreveu no dia segunda, 23/09/2019 à(s) 18:32:
I am not entirely sure how this connects to the topic of the thread.
However, I feel I should note that we are indeed interested in translating into other languages, and have been seeking people to help with translation of the website and other organization materials:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Organization_communications_t...
I do not want to derail this conversation, so will leave it at that and encourage you to utilize that page or the website's Meta-Wiki page to discuss this further, as this thread seems to be about other topics.
-greg
On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 9:28 AM Ferdinando Traversa < ferdi.traversa@gmail.com> wrote:
Please note that Foundation website is translated in French, but not in many other languages (including Italian, mine)... I don’t know why they don’t give the chance to translate.
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Hi Jane, Thank you for your answer, but I think I did not make my point clear enough given the answer you made. On the francophone wiki there is not “local WIR”. There are a few sister projects like les sans pages of which I am the founder (so people might turn to me for questions) or ateliers femmes et féminismes, Wikimatrimoine ect. I think we view WIR as a sister project, not as an umbrella. We would like equal access to ressources, finance and management, which is why it is important for us to have WMF reps at our regional events. Local chapters are great, but it’s not the same. I have tried to go to as many international events as possible, because this is where you learn about the politics and new tools and financing possibilities. I could not go most of the time because our project was very successful. and nearly every two week two there are events and because I have a family too, and limited finances. So yes, having a person representing outreach would have been great. I think we need T&S and Outreach to be there, with the possibility of booking appointments.
I was writing about rapid grants not questions about wikipedia, saying that local reps are worried about the way rapid grants have been designed with timing to apply according to themes. See https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Project/Rapid/Learn What was great about rapid grants was: -flexibility : you could ask for funding anytime and receive it within 3 weeks (now you have to apply between the 1rst and 15th of each month and decision is made one month after) - for certain themes you can only apply at certain time in the year making it very rigid. No doubt volunteers will miss lots of opportunities because of this. IMO the major asset of the rapid grants, flexibiiity and speed to adapt to volunteers fluctuating engagement is now gone. Why?
I copy and paste below the new rules. I was wondering why this new ruling is in place as it seems to some volunteers very complicated and rigid as opposed to the last system. I was wondering if the advice of volunteers was taken into account.
You must submit your application between the 1st and 15th of each month. Please plan to make your applications accordingly, so you will have a decision about your grant within the timeframe you need to plan your event. Decisions will be made by the 15th of the following month. In the months specified below, we will prioritize support to contests and campaigns. These months will be solely dedicated to different contests throughout the year: August: only receiving proposals for Wiki Loves Monuments September: only receiving proposals for Awareness Grants(campaign) December: only receiving proposals for Wiki Loves Africa January: only receiving proposals for Art + Feminism (campaign) March: only receiving proposals for Wiki Loves Earth Outside the months specified above, proposals are welcomed in all other categories: edit-a-thons, contests, photowalks, general promotion campaigns, and video campaigns. We will also consider proposals outside of these categories, such as software development. I hope I have clarified a little what I meant, which is basically that WMF is so useful that until regional hubs are set up if they are, we need them more present at our events.
Kind regards, Natacha
Le 16 sept. 2019 à 08:45, Jane Darnell jane023@gmail.com a écrit :
As far as Art+Feminism goes, this project concentrates on biographies of female artists. The English Wikipedia project "Women in Red" is open 24x7 all year round and concentrates on biographies of women on English Wikipedia, period. So you can take all of your local Wikipedia questions about A+F to your local WiR women for each non-English Wikipedia, and if there is no overlap yet, I suggest starting your own local A+F/WiR in your local Wikipedia. We should probably start a multi-lingual one for Commons, since it has proven so difficult to get pictures of female artists to illustrate articles about them.
On Sun, Sep 15, 2019 at 8:27 PM Natacha Rault via Wikimedia-l < wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
Thank you Thierry. To be honnest a few of us were really waiting for Valerie D'Costa, the new Chief of Community Engagement because we had questions for her about the new rapid grant funding agenda which seems totally inadapted to volunteer’s need in terms of flexibility. One has to wait a soecific month for Art+feminism and very often the timing has not been adapted to when the events are actually taking place. For a volunteer this is way too procedural. We need more flexibility. We had other questions regarding the departure of several people which were very important for the gender gap. So ... Some of us were disappointed indeed. Kind regards, Natacha
Le 15 sept. 2019 à 20:02, Thierry Coudray tcoudray@gmail.com a écrit :
Valerie D'Costa, the new Chief of Community Engagement,
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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Thanks for your clarification! Yes of course it is difficult to keep up with changing WMF rules regarding funding (or reporting). I know in the past we have run into problems trying to stay aware of all the ins-and-outs of these things in the Netherlands chapter and for chapters with sub-sections distributed far apart it must be very hard to do. Your question seems to be why these WMF funding/reporting changes are made, and though I don't know the details I assume from past experience that this is all done to simplify the work done by the WMF in such a way that they can better support the chapter work by simplifying and streamlining their workflow. It's nice to read that the most common grant requests are still flexible and can be requested each month: editathons, photo walks, etc.
It's a good idea to have an Outreach person appointed at the WMF for diversity and I think we have all been happy with the work done by Alex Stinson for GLAM. I don't think we have ever had a person for the Gendergap, but there is a diversity project out on Meta now with a very long title for this (sorry, can't remember it and I am not a Meta person) and this is probably where a WMF appointment should be. I am not up to date with the whole Meta-Outreach discussion and as far as I can tell Outreach is nowadays mostly just for "This Month in GLAM". Maybe we need a "This Month in Diversity" or something like that, with input from all workgroups!
On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 7:02 AM Natacha Rault via Wikimedia-l < wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
Hi Jane, Thank you for your answer, but I think I did not make my point clear enough given the answer you made. On the francophone wiki there is not “local WIR”. There are a few sister projects like les sans pages of which I am the founder (so people might turn to me for questions) or ateliers femmes et féminismes, Wikimatrimoine ect. I think we view WIR as a sister project, not as an umbrella. We would like equal access to ressources, finance and management, which is why it is important for us to have WMF reps at our regional events. Local chapters are great, but it’s not the same. I have tried to go to as many international events as possible, because this is where you learn about the politics and new tools and financing possibilities. I could not go most of the time because our project was very successful. and nearly every two week two there are events and because I have a family too, and limited finances. So yes, having a person representing outreach would have been great. I think we need T&S and Outreach to be there, with the possibility of booking appointments.
I was writing about rapid grants not questions about wikipedia, saying that local reps are worried about the way rapid grants have been designed with timing to apply according to themes. See https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Project/Rapid/Learn What was great about rapid grants was: -flexibility : you could ask for funding anytime and receive it within 3 weeks (now you have to apply between the 1rst and 15th of each month and decision is made one month after)
- for certain themes you can only apply at certain time in the year making
it very rigid. No doubt volunteers will miss lots of opportunities because of this. IMO the major asset of the rapid grants, flexibiiity and speed to adapt to volunteers fluctuating engagement is now gone. Why?
I copy and paste below the new rules. I was wondering why this new ruling is in place as it seems to some volunteers very complicated and rigid as opposed to the last system. I was wondering if the advice of volunteers was taken into account.
You must submit your application between the 1st and 15th of each month. Please plan to make your applications accordingly, so you will have a decision about your grant within the timeframe you need to plan your event. Decisions will be made by the 15th of the following month. In the months specified below, we will prioritize support to contests and campaigns. These months will be solely dedicated to different contests throughout the year: August: only receiving proposals for Wiki Loves Monuments September: only receiving proposals for Awareness Grants(campaign) December: only receiving proposals for Wiki Loves Africa January: only receiving proposals for Art + Feminism (campaign) March: only receiving proposals for Wiki Loves Earth Outside the months specified above, proposals are welcomed in all other categories: edit-a-thons, contests, photowalks, general promotion campaigns, and video campaigns. We will also consider proposals outside of these categories, such as software development. I hope I have clarified a little what I meant, which is basically that WMF is so useful that until regional hubs are set up if they are, we need them more present at our events.
Kind regards, Natacha
Le 16 sept. 2019 à 08:45, Jane Darnell jane023@gmail.com a écrit :
As far as Art+Feminism goes, this project concentrates on biographies of female artists. The English Wikipedia project "Women in Red" is open 24x7 all year round and concentrates on biographies of women on English Wikipedia, period. So you can take all of your local Wikipedia questions about A+F to your local WiR women for each non-English Wikipedia, and if there is no overlap yet, I suggest starting your own local A+F/WiR in
your
local Wikipedia. We should probably start a multi-lingual one for
Commons,
since it has proven so difficult to get pictures of female artists to illustrate articles about them.
On Sun, Sep 15, 2019 at 8:27 PM Natacha Rault via Wikimedia-l < wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
Thank you Thierry. To be honnest a few of us were really waiting for Valerie D'Costa, the new Chief of Community Engagement because we had questions for her about the new rapid grant funding agenda which seems totally inadapted to volunteer’s need in terms of flexibility. One has
to
wait a soecific month for Art+feminism and very often the timing has not been adapted to when the events are actually taking place. For a
volunteer
this is way too procedural. We need more flexibility. We had other questions regarding the departure of several people which were very important for the gender gap. So ... Some of us were disappointed indeed. Kind regards, Natacha
Le 15 sept. 2019 à 20:02, Thierry Coudray tcoudray@gmail.com a
écrit :
Valerie D'Costa, the new Chief of Community Engagement,
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I love the idea of “This Month in Diversity” although I dont like the word “diversity” Nattez
Le 17 sept. 2019 à 10:29, Jane Darnell jane023@gmail.com a écrit :
This Month in Diversity
Since 2010 we have the WikiCon for the German language communities with more than 300 attendants. I don't remember that the WMF has sent anyone to these conventions. And why should they? It's all in German, the communities are established and have strong chapters. I suppose the same applies to the French language communites. The WMF visits emerging communities, to learn about them and to help them by transfering knowlege. They visit the CEE meetings, they visit Wiki Indabas. I don't think that the WMF is neglecting big communities, it rather makes sense that when sending employes across half the planet they check before, what benefits the conferences have from their attendance and what benefits their attendance bring to the particpants of the conference. Cheers, Gereon
Am 15.09.2019 um 20:02 schrieb Thierry Coudray:
"*The Foundation does not care so much of the French-speaking contributors*". This harsh sentence is the translation of a statement in French, I've just said in a conversation a week ago at the Francophone Wikiconvention held last weekend in Brussels. The statement may seem excessive, because the Foundation does things for the Francophone community as well as for other communities (and its website is fairly well translated into French). But it reflected my feeling, shared by my three interlocutors, all non-French, facing that no Foundation high-level members were present to this Wikiconvention: no executive director, nor members of the Board, nor any level-C staff. In an another conversation, where the subject came up over again, someone said this absence was offensive. I do not know if it reflects the majority of attendees feelings but with varying degrees, I would said it was widely shared.
In 2017, for the Francophone Wikiconvention in Strasbourg we had a very quick visit of Katherine Maher, in 2018, a simple video message and in 2019 ... nothing. At the same time, the Francophone Wikiconvention has stepped up with ever more participants, always more countries represented. This year, it brought together more than 220 Francophones, Algerian, Belgian, Beninese, Cameroonian, Canadian, French, Guinean, Ivorian, Swiss and Tunisian contributors, and I may forget some, with varied and enriching conferences and meetings. A huge success, very well organized by employees but also by several volunteers, who dedicated time and energy. This Wikiconvention and the projects and achievements submitted have shown the French-speaking Wikimedia community vitality, which will continue to grow. FYI, French is foreseen, thanks to Africa, to be the most rapidly growing languages in the next twenty years and will be the mother tongue or the language used for communication for more than 8% of the world's population in thirty years' time. But my reaction would have been the same if I had attended an Arabic, Chinese, Spanish, Swahili-speaking or any other important languages Wikiconvention.
So yes, this Wikiconvention is not in English. Fortunately, not all Wikimedia meetings are in English. In a previous discussion on this mailing list about the question of whether or not it is appropriate to continue Wimania, one of the participants argued that unlike other Wikimedia meetings, anyone could attend Wikmania. It may be obvious for those who have English as a mother tongue or for Northern Europeans for whom English is almost a second mother tongue but this is false: English is spoken only by a small minority in the world, less than one human in six. So only one human in six or seven could attend Wikimania or any other english-speaking conferences or meetings (the case of the vast majority of global Wikimedia conferences). I do not deny a common working language usefulness but a Wikiconvention in French, as I hope other languages ones will be more to come soon, allows all non-English speaking Francophones to participate in the Wikimedia movement and above all, help them to meet our common goal of spread freeknowledge.The movement talks a lot about its efforts to overcome differents gaps (gender, LGBT,...) and it's rightly pointed, these topics are important. But it simply forget the language gap and the almost exclusive use of English excludes a very large majority.
So why no high level Foundation members in Brussels ? I was told that Valerie D'Costa, the new Chief of Community Engagement, should initially be there but finally told she will not. But then, no other member could then replace her and why only one Foundation representant given the part of French language in the WM projects ? Perhaps no Foundation Board or high level member speaks French or feels she/he speaks good enough. But with more than 220 attendants at the FWC, it would have been easy to find volonteers with a good level of English to provide simultaneous translation in discussions with other non-English speaking participants or to translate conferences.A higher-level representation would have helped the Foundation top level to gain more insight into Wikimedian French-speaking community and enabled this community to have a direct access to the Foundation, like in Wikimania. That would have helped bridging the gap between these "two worlds". Because this gap is real. In the 2011 Finance Meeting in Paris, during workshops where a Board member was in each group (Jan-Bart de Vreede for mine), me and another non english-speaking chapter head (she/he will recognize her/himself) had made the comment that we had the impression in our relation with the Foundation of "*colliding with an Anglo-Saxon wall*". I notice that despite more Foundation staff diversity in recent years, French speaking organizations would probably still have the same feeling and clearly many French-speaking wikimedians feel that gap.
It is sad that the Foundation, which is very demanding with Francophone chapters, does not apply itself to these demands with the Francophone community. FYI the next French-speaking Wikconvention will be held on WE 31 october/1 November 2019 in Tunis. Save the date.
Regards
Gereon, you clearly forget the whole Mediaviewer saga and attendance of WMF staff at the following WikiCon in Cologne ;-) But that was a long time ago :-)
On Mon, 16 Sep 2019 at 01:53, Gereon Kalkuhl gkalkuhl@freenet.de wrote:
Since 2010 we have the WikiCon for the German language communities with more than 300 attendants. I don't remember that the WMF has sent anyone to these conventions. And why should they? It's all in German, the communities are established and have strong chapters. I suppose the same applies to the French language communites. The WMF visits emerging communities, to learn about them and to help them by transfering knowlege. They visit the CEE meetings, they visit Wiki Indabas. I don't think that the WMF is neglecting big communities, it rather makes sense that when sending employes across half the planet they check before, what benefits the conferences have from their attendance and what benefits their attendance bring to the particpants of the conference. Cheers, Gereon
Am 15.09.2019 um 20:02 schrieb Thierry Coudray:
"*The Foundation does not care so much of the French-speaking
contributors*".
This harsh sentence is the translation of a statement in French, I've
just
said in a conversation a week ago at the Francophone Wikiconvention held last weekend in Brussels. The statement may seem excessive, because the Foundation does things for the Francophone community as well as for other communities (and its website is fairly well translated into French). But
it
reflected my feeling, shared by my three interlocutors, all non-French, facing that no Foundation high-level members were present to this Wikiconvention: no executive director, nor members of the Board, nor any level-C staff. In an another conversation, where the subject came up over again, someone said this absence was offensive. I do not know if it reflects the majority of attendees feelings but with varying degrees, I would said it was widely shared.
In 2017, for the Francophone Wikiconvention in Strasbourg we had a very quick visit of Katherine Maher, in 2018, a simple video message and in
2019
... nothing. At the same time, the Francophone Wikiconvention has stepped up with ever more participants, always more countries represented. This year, it brought together more than 220 Francophones, Algerian, Belgian, Beninese, Cameroonian, Canadian, French, Guinean, Ivorian, Swiss and Tunisian contributors, and I may forget some, with varied and enriching conferences and meetings. A huge success, very well organized by
employees
but also by several volunteers, who dedicated time and energy. This Wikiconvention and the projects and achievements submitted have shown the French-speaking Wikimedia community vitality, which will continue to
grow.
FYI, French is foreseen, thanks to Africa, to be the most rapidly growing languages in the next twenty years and will be the mother tongue or the language used for communication for more than 8% of the world's
population
in thirty years' time. But my reaction would have been the same if I had attended an Arabic, Chinese, Spanish, Swahili-speaking or any other important languages Wikiconvention.
So yes, this Wikiconvention is not in English. Fortunately, not all Wikimedia meetings are in English. In a previous discussion on this
mailing
list about the question of whether or not it is appropriate to continue Wimania, one of the participants argued that unlike other Wikimedia meetings, anyone could attend Wikmania. It may be obvious for those who have English as a mother tongue or for Northern Europeans for whom
English
is almost a second mother tongue but this is false: English is spoken
only
by a small minority in the world, less than one human in six. So only one human in six or seven could attend Wikimania or any other
english-speaking
conferences or meetings (the case of the vast majority of global
Wikimedia
conferences). I do not deny a common working language usefulness but a Wikiconvention in French, as I hope other languages ones will be more to come soon, allows all non-English speaking Francophones to participate in the Wikimedia movement and above all, help them to meet our common goal
of
spread freeknowledge.The movement talks a lot about its efforts to
overcome
differents gaps (gender, LGBT,...) and it's rightly pointed, these topics are important. But it simply forget the language gap and the almost exclusive use of English excludes a very large majority.
So why no high level Foundation members in Brussels ? I was told that Valerie D'Costa, the new Chief of Community Engagement, should initially be there but finally told she will not. But then, no
other
member could then replace her and why only one Foundation representant given the part of French language in the WM projects ? Perhaps no
Foundation
Board or high level member speaks French or feels she/he speaks good
enough.
But with more than 220 attendants at the FWC, it would have been easy to find volonteers with a good level of English to provide simultaneous translation in discussions with other non-English speaking participants
or to
translate conferences.A higher-level representation would have helped the Foundation top level to gain more insight into Wikimedian French-speaking community and enabled this community to have a direct access to the Foundation, like in Wikimania. That would have helped bridging the gap between these "two worlds". Because this gap is real. In the 2011 Finance Meeting in Paris, during workshops where a Board member was in each group (Jan-Bart de Vreede for mine), me and another non english-speaking chapter head
(she/he
will recognize her/himself) had made the comment that we had the
impression
in our relation with the Foundation of "*colliding with an Anglo-Saxon
wall*".
I notice that despite more Foundation staff diversity in recent years, French speaking organizations would probably still have the same feeling and clearly many French-speaking wikimedians feel that gap.
It is sad that the Foundation, which is very demanding with Francophone chapters, does not apply itself to these demands with the Francophone community. FYI the next French-speaking Wikconvention will be held on WE
31
october/1 November 2019 in Tunis. Save the date.
Regards
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Hi,
A different angle for looking at the question of WMF staff attending community events which may help this conversation:
As a staff member (and acknowledging that my position is none of the ones Thierry called out in their first email on this thread), with the exception of a few community events, I very much hesitate to attend a local community-run event unless the specific community, or at least one person from that community, has specifically invited me or told me I should consider attending. There is definitely some feeling of fear/self-consciousness on my end about entering in a place where I may not be welcome, where I impose my presence to others, or entering conversations where my expertise may not be valued/considered because I'm carrying a history which may or may not even be really mine.
I'm sharing my feelings and the way I think about whether to attend a local event or not here not to ask for empathy in my specific case (which is btw, always welcomed:) but to say that there may be other staff members like me, especially those who have joined WMF more recently, who may be in the same boat. My recommendation would be for the local communities to signal to the specific people which they want in their meetings that they're welcome to attend. At least this way you will know the person has felt invited/welcomed and will have a higher chance to decide to attend.
To be clear: I'm not saying WMF not attending this specific event would have been addressed by the above. I don't know. I'm just explaining one of the reasons this may have happened, and providing a suggestion to address this specific reason.
Best, Leila -- Leila Zia Principal Research Scientist, Head of Research Wikimedia Foundation
On Mon, Sep 16, 2019 at 4:20 AM Philip Kopetzky philip.kopetzky@gmail.com wrote:
Gereon, you clearly forget the whole Mediaviewer saga and attendance of WMF staff at the following WikiCon in Cologne ;-) But that was a long time ago :-)
On Mon, 16 Sep 2019 at 01:53, Gereon Kalkuhl gkalkuhl@freenet.de wrote:
Since 2010 we have the WikiCon for the German language communities with more than 300 attendants. I don't remember that the WMF has sent anyone to these conventions. And why should they? It's all in German, the communities are established and have strong chapters. I suppose the same applies to the French language communites. The WMF visits emerging communities, to learn about them and to help them by transfering knowlege. They visit the CEE meetings, they visit Wiki Indabas. I don't think that the WMF is neglecting big communities, it rather makes sense that when sending employes across half the planet they check before, what benefits the conferences have from their attendance and what benefits their attendance bring to the particpants of the conference. Cheers, Gereon
Am 15.09.2019 um 20:02 schrieb Thierry Coudray:
"*The Foundation does not care so much of the French-speaking
contributors*".
This harsh sentence is the translation of a statement in French, I've
just
said in a conversation a week ago at the Francophone Wikiconvention held last weekend in Brussels. The statement may seem excessive, because the Foundation does things for the Francophone community as well as for other communities (and its website is fairly well translated into French). But
it
reflected my feeling, shared by my three interlocutors, all non-French, facing that no Foundation high-level members were present to this Wikiconvention: no executive director, nor members of the Board, nor any level-C staff. In an another conversation, where the subject came up over again, someone said this absence was offensive. I do not know if it reflects the majority of attendees feelings but with varying degrees, I would said it was widely shared.
In 2017, for the Francophone Wikiconvention in Strasbourg we had a very quick visit of Katherine Maher, in 2018, a simple video message and in
2019
... nothing. At the same time, the Francophone Wikiconvention has stepped up with ever more participants, always more countries represented. This year, it brought together more than 220 Francophones, Algerian, Belgian, Beninese, Cameroonian, Canadian, French, Guinean, Ivorian, Swiss and Tunisian contributors, and I may forget some, with varied and enriching conferences and meetings. A huge success, very well organized by
employees
but also by several volunteers, who dedicated time and energy. This Wikiconvention and the projects and achievements submitted have shown the French-speaking Wikimedia community vitality, which will continue to
grow.
FYI, French is foreseen, thanks to Africa, to be the most rapidly growing languages in the next twenty years and will be the mother tongue or the language used for communication for more than 8% of the world's
population
in thirty years' time. But my reaction would have been the same if I had attended an Arabic, Chinese, Spanish, Swahili-speaking or any other important languages Wikiconvention.
So yes, this Wikiconvention is not in English. Fortunately, not all Wikimedia meetings are in English. In a previous discussion on this
mailing
list about the question of whether or not it is appropriate to continue Wimania, one of the participants argued that unlike other Wikimedia meetings, anyone could attend Wikmania. It may be obvious for those who have English as a mother tongue or for Northern Europeans for whom
English
is almost a second mother tongue but this is false: English is spoken
only
by a small minority in the world, less than one human in six. So only one human in six or seven could attend Wikimania or any other
english-speaking
conferences or meetings (the case of the vast majority of global
Wikimedia
conferences). I do not deny a common working language usefulness but a Wikiconvention in French, as I hope other languages ones will be more to come soon, allows all non-English speaking Francophones to participate in the Wikimedia movement and above all, help them to meet our common goal
of
spread freeknowledge.The movement talks a lot about its efforts to
overcome
differents gaps (gender, LGBT,...) and it's rightly pointed, these topics are important. But it simply forget the language gap and the almost exclusive use of English excludes a very large majority.
So why no high level Foundation members in Brussels ? I was told that Valerie D'Costa, the new Chief of Community Engagement, should initially be there but finally told she will not. But then, no
other
member could then replace her and why only one Foundation representant given the part of French language in the WM projects ? Perhaps no
Foundation
Board or high level member speaks French or feels she/he speaks good
enough.
But with more than 220 attendants at the FWC, it would have been easy to find volonteers with a good level of English to provide simultaneous translation in discussions with other non-English speaking participants
or to
translate conferences.A higher-level representation would have helped the Foundation top level to gain more insight into Wikimedian French-speaking community and enabled this community to have a direct access to the Foundation, like in Wikimania. That would have helped bridging the gap between these "two worlds". Because this gap is real. In the 2011 Finance Meeting in Paris, during workshops where a Board member was in each group (Jan-Bart de Vreede for mine), me and another non english-speaking chapter head
(she/he
will recognize her/himself) had made the comment that we had the
impression
in our relation with the Foundation of "*colliding with an Anglo-Saxon
wall*".
I notice that despite more Foundation staff diversity in recent years, French speaking organizations would probably still have the same feeling and clearly many French-speaking wikimedians feel that gap.
It is sad that the Foundation, which is very demanding with Francophone chapters, does not apply itself to these demands with the Francophone community. FYI the next French-speaking Wikconvention will be held on WE
31
october/1 November 2019 in Tunis. Save the date.
Regards
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Thanks for sharing this Leila! This is of course a useful angle. Nattes
Le 16 sept. 2019 à 21:51, Leila Zia leila@wikimedia.org a écrit :
Hi,
A different angle for looking at the question of WMF staff attending community events which may help this conversation:
As a staff member (and acknowledging that my position is none of the ones Thierry called out in their first email on this thread), with the exception of a few community events, I very much hesitate to attend a local community-run event unless the specific community, or at least one person from that community, has specifically invited me or told me I should consider attending. There is definitely some feeling of fear/self-consciousness on my end about entering in a place where I may not be welcome, where I impose my presence to others, or entering conversations where my expertise may not be valued/considered because I'm carrying a history which may or may not even be really mine.
I'm sharing my feelings and the way I think about whether to attend a local event or not here not to ask for empathy in my specific case (which is btw, always welcomed:) but to say that there may be other staff members like me, especially those who have joined WMF more recently, who may be in the same boat. My recommendation would be for the local communities to signal to the specific people which they want in their meetings that they're welcome to attend. At least this way you will know the person has felt invited/welcomed and will have a higher chance to decide to attend.
To be clear: I'm not saying WMF not attending this specific event would have been addressed by the above. I don't know. I'm just explaining one of the reasons this may have happened, and providing a suggestion to address this specific reason.
Best, Leila -- Leila Zia Principal Research Scientist, Head of Research Wikimedia Foundation
On Mon, Sep 16, 2019 at 4:20 AM Philip Kopetzky philip.kopetzky@gmail.com wrote:
Gereon, you clearly forget the whole Mediaviewer saga and attendance of WMF staff at the following WikiCon in Cologne ;-) But that was a long time ago :-)
On Mon, 16 Sep 2019 at 01:53, Gereon Kalkuhl gkalkuhl@freenet.de wrote:
Since 2010 we have the WikiCon for the German language communities with more than 300 attendants. I don't remember that the WMF has sent anyone to these conventions. And why should they? It's all in German, the communities are established and have strong chapters. I suppose the same applies to the French language communites. The WMF visits emerging communities, to learn about them and to help them by transfering knowlege. They visit the CEE meetings, they visit Wiki Indabas. I don't think that the WMF is neglecting big communities, it rather makes sense that when sending employes across half the planet they check before, what benefits the conferences have from their attendance and what benefits their attendance bring to the particpants of the conference. Cheers, Gereon
Am 15.09.2019 um 20:02 schrieb Thierry Coudray: "*The Foundation does not care so much of the French-speaking
contributors*".
This harsh sentence is the translation of a statement in French, I've
just
said in a conversation a week ago at the Francophone Wikiconvention held last weekend in Brussels. The statement may seem excessive, because the Foundation does things for the Francophone community as well as for other communities (and its website is fairly well translated into French). But
it
reflected my feeling, shared by my three interlocutors, all non-French, facing that no Foundation high-level members were present to this Wikiconvention: no executive director, nor members of the Board, nor any level-C staff. In an another conversation, where the subject came up over again, someone said this absence was offensive. I do not know if it reflects the majority of attendees feelings but with varying degrees, I would said it was widely shared.
In 2017, for the Francophone Wikiconvention in Strasbourg we had a very quick visit of Katherine Maher, in 2018, a simple video message and in
2019
... nothing. At the same time, the Francophone Wikiconvention has stepped up with ever more participants, always more countries represented. This year, it brought together more than 220 Francophones, Algerian, Belgian, Beninese, Cameroonian, Canadian, French, Guinean, Ivorian, Swiss and Tunisian contributors, and I may forget some, with varied and enriching conferences and meetings. A huge success, very well organized by
employees
but also by several volunteers, who dedicated time and energy. This Wikiconvention and the projects and achievements submitted have shown the French-speaking Wikimedia community vitality, which will continue to
grow.
FYI, French is foreseen, thanks to Africa, to be the most rapidly growing languages in the next twenty years and will be the mother tongue or the language used for communication for more than 8% of the world's
population
in thirty years' time. But my reaction would have been the same if I had attended an Arabic, Chinese, Spanish, Swahili-speaking or any other important languages Wikiconvention.
So yes, this Wikiconvention is not in English. Fortunately, not all Wikimedia meetings are in English. In a previous discussion on this
mailing
list about the question of whether or not it is appropriate to continue Wimania, one of the participants argued that unlike other Wikimedia meetings, anyone could attend Wikmania. It may be obvious for those who have English as a mother tongue or for Northern Europeans for whom
English
is almost a second mother tongue but this is false: English is spoken
only
by a small minority in the world, less than one human in six. So only one human in six or seven could attend Wikimania or any other
english-speaking
conferences or meetings (the case of the vast majority of global
Wikimedia
conferences). I do not deny a common working language usefulness but a Wikiconvention in French, as I hope other languages ones will be more to come soon, allows all non-English speaking Francophones to participate in the Wikimedia movement and above all, help them to meet our common goal
of
spread freeknowledge.The movement talks a lot about its efforts to
overcome
differents gaps (gender, LGBT,...) and it's rightly pointed, these topics are important. But it simply forget the language gap and the almost exclusive use of English excludes a very large majority.
So why no high level Foundation members in Brussels ? I was told that Valerie D'Costa, the new Chief of Community Engagement, should initially be there but finally told she will not. But then, no
other
member could then replace her and why only one Foundation representant given the part of French language in the WM projects ? Perhaps no
Foundation
Board or high level member speaks French or feels she/he speaks good
enough.
But with more than 220 attendants at the FWC, it would have been easy to find volonteers with a good level of English to provide simultaneous translation in discussions with other non-English speaking participants
or to
translate conferences.A higher-level representation would have helped the Foundation top level to gain more insight into Wikimedian French-speaking community and enabled this community to have a direct access to the Foundation, like in Wikimania. That would have helped bridging the gap between these "two worlds". Because this gap is real. In the 2011 Finance Meeting in Paris, during workshops where a Board member was in each group (Jan-Bart de Vreede for mine), me and another non english-speaking chapter head
(she/he
will recognize her/himself) had made the comment that we had the
impression
in our relation with the Foundation of "*colliding with an Anglo-Saxon
wall*".
I notice that despite more Foundation staff diversity in recent years, French speaking organizations would probably still have the same feeling and clearly many French-speaking wikimedians feel that gap.
It is sad that the Foundation, which is very demanding with Francophone chapters, does not apply itself to these demands with the Francophone community. FYI the next French-speaking Wikconvention will be held on WE
31
october/1 November 2019 in Tunis. Save the date.
Regards
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Hi all,
Just a quick note that I was invited to Wikiconvention on Friday 9 August by Wikimedia France. On Monday 12 August (delayed by travel to Wikimania!) I sent a note expressing my regrets, as I had a family wedding to attend during that same weekend as the Convention. I also asked at the same time to be notified as soon as the 2020 Tunis dates were confirmed, so that I or other members of the Foundation's leadership team are able to plan to attend (and I have already put those dates in my calendar).
Unfortunately, as all volunteers know, sometimes personal/family commitments do preclude travel. I similarly cannot attend the CEE Conference due to a personal commitment this year. Sometimes there are also scheduling conflicts: This year the German-speaking WikiCon gathering is the same weekend as WikiArabia, and WikiCon North America is the same weekend as WikiIndaba. This means there's always going to be a sense of missing something important!
I would also agree with what Leila shared. I was very appreciative to be invited to Wikiconvention, WikiArabia, and WikiIndaba this year. But I want to respect that not every community feels that it is the place of the Foundation's ED to participate or speak at their events, and that's totally fine. I don't think people always need to hear from me, but I am always very happy to support any event in which I am invited!
Katherine
On Mon, Sep 16, 2019 at 2:25 PM Natacha Rault via Wikimedia-l < wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
Thanks for sharing this Leila! This is of course a useful angle. Nattes
Le 16 sept. 2019 à 21:51, Leila Zia leila@wikimedia.org a écrit :
Hi,
A different angle for looking at the question of WMF staff attending community events which may help this conversation:
As a staff member (and acknowledging that my position is none of the ones Thierry called out in their first email on this thread), with the exception of a few community events, I very much hesitate to attend a local community-run event unless the specific community, or at least one person from that community, has specifically invited me or told me I should consider attending. There is definitely some feeling of fear/self-consciousness on my end about entering in a place where I may not be welcome, where I impose my presence to others, or entering conversations where my expertise may not be valued/considered because I'm carrying a history which may or may not even be really mine.
I'm sharing my feelings and the way I think about whether to attend a local event or not here not to ask for empathy in my specific case (which is btw, always welcomed:) but to say that there may be other staff members like me, especially those who have joined WMF more recently, who may be in the same boat. My recommendation would be for the local communities to signal to the specific people which they want in their meetings that they're welcome to attend. At least this way you will know the person has felt invited/welcomed and will have a higher chance to decide to attend.
To be clear: I'm not saying WMF not attending this specific event would have been addressed by the above. I don't know. I'm just explaining one of the reasons this may have happened, and providing a suggestion to address this specific reason.
Best, Leila -- Leila Zia Principal Research Scientist, Head of Research Wikimedia Foundation
On Mon, Sep 16, 2019 at 4:20 AM Philip Kopetzky philip.kopetzky@gmail.com wrote:
Gereon, you clearly forget the whole Mediaviewer saga and attendance of
WMF
staff at the following WikiCon in Cologne ;-) But that was a long time
ago
:-)
On Mon, 16 Sep 2019 at 01:53, Gereon Kalkuhl gkalkuhl@freenet.de
wrote:
Since 2010 we have the WikiCon for the German language communities with more than 300 attendants. I don't remember that the WMF has sent anyone to these conventions. And why should they? It's all in German, the communities are established and have strong chapters. I suppose the
same
applies to the French language communites. The WMF visits emerging communities, to learn about them and to help them by transfering knowlege. They visit the CEE meetings, they visit Wiki Indabas. I don't think that the WMF is neglecting big communities, it rather makes sense that when sending employes across half the planet they check before, what benefits the conferences have from their attendance and what benefits their attendance bring to the particpants of the conference. Cheers, Gereon
Am 15.09.2019 um 20:02 schrieb Thierry Coudray: "*The Foundation does not care so much of the French-speaking
contributors*".
This harsh sentence is the translation of a statement in French, I've
just
said in a conversation a week ago at the Francophone Wikiconvention
held
last weekend in Brussels. The statement may seem excessive, because
the
Foundation does things for the Francophone community as well as for
other
communities (and its website is fairly well translated into French).
But
it
reflected my feeling, shared by my three interlocutors, all
non-French,
facing that no Foundation high-level members were present to this Wikiconvention: no executive director, nor members of the Board, nor
any
level-C staff. In an another conversation, where the subject came up
over
again, someone said this absence was offensive. I do not know if it reflects the majority of attendees feelings but with varying degrees,
I
would said it was widely shared.
In 2017, for the Francophone Wikiconvention in Strasbourg we had a
very
quick visit of Katherine Maher, in 2018, a simple video message and in
2019
... nothing. At the same time, the Francophone Wikiconvention has
stepped
up with ever more participants, always more countries represented.
This
year, it brought together more than 220 Francophones, Algerian,
Belgian,
Beninese, Cameroonian, Canadian, French, Guinean, Ivorian, Swiss and Tunisian contributors, and I may forget some, with varied and
enriching
conferences and meetings. A huge success, very well organized by
employees
but also by several volunteers, who dedicated time and energy. This Wikiconvention and the projects and achievements submitted have shown
the
French-speaking Wikimedia community vitality, which will continue to
grow.
FYI, French is foreseen, thanks to Africa, to be the most rapidly
growing
languages in the next twenty years and will be the mother tongue or
the
language used for communication for more than 8% of the world's
population
in thirty years' time. But my reaction would have been the same if I
had
attended an Arabic, Chinese, Spanish, Swahili-speaking or any other important languages Wikiconvention.
So yes, this Wikiconvention is not in English. Fortunately, not all Wikimedia meetings are in English. In a previous discussion on this
mailing
list about the question of whether or not it is appropriate to
continue
Wimania, one of the participants argued that unlike other Wikimedia meetings, anyone could attend Wikmania. It may be obvious for those
who
have English as a mother tongue or for Northern Europeans for whom
English
is almost a second mother tongue but this is false: English is spoken
only
by a small minority in the world, less than one human in six. So only
one
human in six or seven could attend Wikimania or any other
english-speaking
conferences or meetings (the case of the vast majority of global
Wikimedia
conferences). I do not deny a common working language usefulness but a Wikiconvention in French, as I hope other languages ones will be more
to
come soon, allows all non-English speaking Francophones to
participate in
the Wikimedia movement and above all, help them to meet our common
goal
of
spread freeknowledge.The movement talks a lot about its efforts to
overcome
differents gaps (gender, LGBT,...) and it's rightly pointed, these
topics
are important. But it simply forget the language gap and the almost exclusive use of English excludes a very large majority.
So why no high level Foundation members in Brussels ? I was told that Valerie D'Costa, the new Chief of Community
Engagement,
should initially be there but finally told she will not. But then, no
other
member could then replace her and why only one Foundation representant given the part of French language in the WM projects ? Perhaps no
Foundation
Board or high level member speaks French or feels she/he speaks good
enough.
But with more than 220 attendants at the FWC, it would have been easy
to
find volonteers with a good level of English to provide simultaneous translation in discussions with other non-English speaking
participants
or to
translate conferences.A higher-level representation would have helped
the
Foundation top level to gain more insight into Wikimedian
French-speaking
community and enabled this community to have a direct access to the Foundation, like in Wikimania. That would have helped bridging the gap between these "two worlds". Because this gap is real. In the 2011
Finance
Meeting in Paris, during workshops where a Board member was in each group (Jan-Bart de Vreede for mine), me and another non english-speaking chapter head
(she/he
will recognize her/himself) had made the comment that we had the
impression
in our relation with the Foundation of "*colliding with an Anglo-Saxon
wall*".
I notice that despite more Foundation staff diversity in recent years, French speaking organizations would probably still have the same
feeling
and clearly many French-speaking wikimedians feel that gap.
It is sad that the Foundation, which is very demanding with
Francophone
chapters, does not apply itself to these demands with the Francophone community. FYI the next French-speaking Wikconvention will be held on
WE
31
october/1 November 2019 in Tunis. Save the date.
Regards
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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Thank you Katherine, We will be happy to see you in Tunis! Along with other reps of the WMF I hope, with the possibility of booking appointments with : - T&S - outreach - grant rep - tech rep Kind regards,
Nattes à chat
Le 16 sept. 2019 à 23:54, Katherine Maher kmaher@wikimedia.org a écrit :
Hi all,
Just a quick note that I was invited to Wikiconvention on Friday 9 August by Wikimedia France. On Monday 12 August (delayed by travel to Wikimania!) I sent a note expressing my regrets, as I had a family wedding to attend during that same weekend as the Convention. I also asked at the same time to be notified as soon as the 2020 Tunis dates were confirmed, so that I or other members of the Foundation's leadership team are able to plan to attend (and I have already put those dates in my calendar).
Unfortunately, as all volunteers know, sometimes personal/family commitments do preclude travel. I similarly cannot attend the CEE Conference due to a personal commitment this year. Sometimes there are also scheduling conflicts: This year the German-speaking WikiCon gathering is the same weekend as WikiArabia, and WikiCon North America is the same weekend as WikiIndaba. This means there's always going to be a sense of missing something important!
I would also agree with what Leila shared. I was very appreciative to be invited to Wikiconvention, WikiArabia, and WikiIndaba this year. But I want to respect that not every community feels that it is the place of the Foundation's ED to participate or speak at their events, and that's totally fine. I don't think people always need to hear from me, but I am always very happy to support any event in which I am invited!
Katherine
On Mon, Sep 16, 2019 at 2:25 PM Natacha Rault via Wikimedia-l < wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
Thanks for sharing this Leila! This is of course a useful angle. Nattes
Le 16 sept. 2019 à 21:51, Leila Zia leila@wikimedia.org a écrit :
Hi,
A different angle for looking at the question of WMF staff attending community events which may help this conversation:
As a staff member (and acknowledging that my position is none of the ones Thierry called out in their first email on this thread), with the exception of a few community events, I very much hesitate to attend a local community-run event unless the specific community, or at least one person from that community, has specifically invited me or told me I should consider attending. There is definitely some feeling of fear/self-consciousness on my end about entering in a place where I may not be welcome, where I impose my presence to others, or entering conversations where my expertise may not be valued/considered because I'm carrying a history which may or may not even be really mine.
I'm sharing my feelings and the way I think about whether to attend a local event or not here not to ask for empathy in my specific case (which is btw, always welcomed:) but to say that there may be other staff members like me, especially those who have joined WMF more recently, who may be in the same boat. My recommendation would be for the local communities to signal to the specific people which they want in their meetings that they're welcome to attend. At least this way you will know the person has felt invited/welcomed and will have a higher chance to decide to attend.
To be clear: I'm not saying WMF not attending this specific event would have been addressed by the above. I don't know. I'm just explaining one of the reasons this may have happened, and providing a suggestion to address this specific reason.
Best, Leila -- Leila Zia Principal Research Scientist, Head of Research Wikimedia Foundation
On Mon, Sep 16, 2019 at 4:20 AM Philip Kopetzky philip.kopetzky@gmail.com wrote:
Gereon, you clearly forget the whole Mediaviewer saga and attendance of
WMF
staff at the following WikiCon in Cologne ;-) But that was a long time
ago
:-)
On Mon, 16 Sep 2019 at 01:53, Gereon Kalkuhl gkalkuhl@freenet.de
wrote:
Since 2010 we have the WikiCon for the German language communities with more than 300 attendants. I don't remember that the WMF has sent anyone to these conventions. And why should they? It's all in German, the communities are established and have strong chapters. I suppose the
same
applies to the French language communites. The WMF visits emerging communities, to learn about them and to help them by transfering knowlege. They visit the CEE meetings, they visit Wiki Indabas. I don't think that the WMF is neglecting big communities, it rather makes sense that when sending employes across half the planet they check before, what benefits the conferences have from their attendance and what benefits their attendance bring to the particpants of the conference. Cheers, Gereon
Am 15.09.2019 um 20:02 schrieb Thierry Coudray: "*The Foundation does not care so much of the French-speaking
contributors*".
This harsh sentence is the translation of a statement in French, I've
just
said in a conversation a week ago at the Francophone Wikiconvention
held
last weekend in Brussels. The statement may seem excessive, because
the
Foundation does things for the Francophone community as well as for
other
communities (and its website is fairly well translated into French).
But
it
reflected my feeling, shared by my three interlocutors, all
non-French,
facing that no Foundation high-level members were present to this Wikiconvention: no executive director, nor members of the Board, nor
any
level-C staff. In an another conversation, where the subject came up
over
again, someone said this absence was offensive. I do not know if it reflects the majority of attendees feelings but with varying degrees,
I
would said it was widely shared.
In 2017, for the Francophone Wikiconvention in Strasbourg we had a
very
quick visit of Katherine Maher, in 2018, a simple video message and in
2019
... nothing. At the same time, the Francophone Wikiconvention has
stepped
up with ever more participants, always more countries represented.
This
year, it brought together more than 220 Francophones, Algerian,
Belgian,
Beninese, Cameroonian, Canadian, French, Guinean, Ivorian, Swiss and Tunisian contributors, and I may forget some, with varied and
enriching
conferences and meetings. A huge success, very well organized by
employees
but also by several volunteers, who dedicated time and energy. This Wikiconvention and the projects and achievements submitted have shown
the
French-speaking Wikimedia community vitality, which will continue to
grow.
FYI, French is foreseen, thanks to Africa, to be the most rapidly
growing
languages in the next twenty years and will be the mother tongue or
the
language used for communication for more than 8% of the world's
population
in thirty years' time. But my reaction would have been the same if I
had
attended an Arabic, Chinese, Spanish, Swahili-speaking or any other important languages Wikiconvention.
So yes, this Wikiconvention is not in English. Fortunately, not all Wikimedia meetings are in English. In a previous discussion on this
mailing
list about the question of whether or not it is appropriate to
continue
Wimania, one of the participants argued that unlike other Wikimedia meetings, anyone could attend Wikmania. It may be obvious for those
who
have English as a mother tongue or for Northern Europeans for whom
English
is almost a second mother tongue but this is false: English is spoken
only
by a small minority in the world, less than one human in six. So only
one
human in six or seven could attend Wikimania or any other
english-speaking
conferences or meetings (the case of the vast majority of global
Wikimedia
conferences). I do not deny a common working language usefulness but a Wikiconvention in French, as I hope other languages ones will be more
to
come soon, allows all non-English speaking Francophones to
participate in
the Wikimedia movement and above all, help them to meet our common
goal
of
spread freeknowledge.The movement talks a lot about its efforts to
overcome
differents gaps (gender, LGBT,...) and it's rightly pointed, these
topics
are important. But it simply forget the language gap and the almost exclusive use of English excludes a very large majority.
So why no high level Foundation members in Brussels ? I was told that Valerie D'Costa, the new Chief of Community
Engagement,
should initially be there but finally told she will not. But then, no
other
member could then replace her and why only one Foundation representant given the part of French language in the WM projects ? Perhaps no
Foundation
Board or high level member speaks French or feels she/he speaks good
enough.
But with more than 220 attendants at the FWC, it would have been easy
to
find volonteers with a good level of English to provide simultaneous translation in discussions with other non-English speaking
participants
or to
translate conferences.A higher-level representation would have helped
the
Foundation top level to gain more insight into Wikimedian
French-speaking
community and enabled this community to have a direct access to the Foundation, like in Wikimania. That would have helped bridging the gap between these "two worlds". Because this gap is real. In the 2011
Finance
Meeting in Paris, during workshops where a Board member was in each group (Jan-Bart de Vreede for mine), me and another non english-speaking chapter head
(she/he
will recognize her/himself) had made the comment that we had the
impression
in our relation with the Foundation of "*colliding with an Anglo-Saxon
wall*".
I notice that despite more Foundation staff diversity in recent years, French speaking organizations would probably still have the same
feeling
and clearly many French-speaking wikimedians feel that gap.
It is sad that the Foundation, which is very demanding with
Francophone
chapters, does not apply itself to these demands with the Francophone community. FYI the next French-speaking Wikconvention will be held on
WE
31
october/1 November 2019 in Tunis. Save the date.
Regards
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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--
Katherine Maher (she/her)
Executive Director
Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Hello,
I participated in the pre-conference in Brussels this year, to which I was invited to give a workshop about grants. I decided not to stay the whole 4 days because of personal commitments too.
Mais si tu as des questions sur les grants, je suis là :)
Best,
Delphine
On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 7:04 AM Natacha Rault via Wikimedia-l < wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
Thank you Katherine, We will be happy to see you in Tunis! Along with other reps of the WMF I hope, with the possibility of booking appointments with :
- T&S
- outreach
- grant rep
- tech rep
Kind regards,
Nattes à chat
Le 16 sept. 2019 à 23:54, Katherine Maher kmaher@wikimedia.org a
écrit :
Hi all,
Just a quick note that I was invited to Wikiconvention on Friday 9 August by Wikimedia France. On Monday 12 August (delayed by travel to
Wikimania!)
I sent a note expressing my regrets, as I had a family wedding to attend during that same weekend as the Convention. I also asked at the same time to be notified as soon as the 2020 Tunis dates were confirmed, so that I
or
other members of the Foundation's leadership team are able to plan to attend (and I have already put those dates in my calendar).
Unfortunately, as all volunteers know, sometimes personal/family commitments do preclude travel. I similarly cannot attend the CEE Conference due to a personal commitment this year. Sometimes there are
also
scheduling conflicts: This year the German-speaking WikiCon gathering is the same weekend as WikiArabia, and WikiCon North America is the same weekend as WikiIndaba. This means there's always going to be a sense of missing something important!
I would also agree with what Leila shared. I was very appreciative to be invited to Wikiconvention, WikiArabia, and WikiIndaba this year. But I
want
to respect that not every community feels that it is the place of the Foundation's ED to participate or speak at their events, and that's
totally
fine. I don't think people always need to hear from me, but I am always very happy to support any event in which I am invited!
Katherine
On Mon, Sep 16, 2019 at 2:25 PM Natacha Rault via Wikimedia-l < wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
Thanks for sharing this Leila! This is of course a useful angle. Nattes
Le 16 sept. 2019 à 21:51, Leila Zia leila@wikimedia.org a écrit :
Hi,
A different angle for looking at the question of WMF staff attending community events which may help this conversation:
As a staff member (and acknowledging that my position is none of the ones Thierry called out in their first email on this thread), with the exception of a few community events, I very much hesitate to attend a local community-run event unless the specific community, or at least one person from that community, has specifically invited me or told me I should consider attending. There is definitely some feeling of fear/self-consciousness on my end about entering in a place where I may not be welcome, where I impose my presence to others, or entering conversations where my expertise may not be valued/considered because I'm carrying a history which may or may not even be really mine.
I'm sharing my feelings and the way I think about whether to attend a local event or not here not to ask for empathy in my specific case (which is btw, always welcomed:) but to say that there may be other staff members like me, especially those who have joined WMF more recently, who may be in the same boat. My recommendation would be for the local communities to signal to the specific people which they want in their meetings that they're welcome to attend. At least this way you will know the person has felt invited/welcomed and will have a higher chance to decide to attend.
To be clear: I'm not saying WMF not attending this specific event would have been addressed by the above. I don't know. I'm just explaining one of the reasons this may have happened, and providing a suggestion to address this specific reason.
Best, Leila -- Leila Zia Principal Research Scientist, Head of Research Wikimedia Foundation
On Mon, Sep 16, 2019 at 4:20 AM Philip Kopetzky philip.kopetzky@gmail.com wrote:
Gereon, you clearly forget the whole Mediaviewer saga and attendance
of
WMF
staff at the following WikiCon in Cologne ;-) But that was a long time
ago
:-)
On Mon, 16 Sep 2019 at 01:53, Gereon Kalkuhl gkalkuhl@freenet.de
wrote:
Since 2010 we have the WikiCon for the German language communities
with
more than 300 attendants. I don't remember that the WMF has sent
anyone
to these conventions. And why should they? It's all in German, the communities are established and have strong chapters. I suppose the
same
applies to the French language communites. The WMF visits emerging communities, to learn about them and to help them by transfering knowlege. They visit the CEE meetings, they visit Wiki Indabas. I
don't
think that the WMF is neglecting big communities, it rather makes
sense
that when sending employes across half the planet they check before, what benefits the conferences have from their attendance and what benefits their attendance bring to the particpants of the conference. Cheers, Gereon
> Am 15.09.2019 um 20:02 schrieb Thierry Coudray: > "*The Foundation does not care so much of the French-speaking contributors*". > This harsh sentence is the translation of a statement in French,
I've
just > said in a conversation a week ago at the Francophone Wikiconvention
held
> last weekend in Brussels. The statement may seem excessive, because
the
> Foundation does things for the Francophone community as well as for
other
> communities (and its website is fairly well translated into French).
But
it > reflected my feeling, shared by my three interlocutors, all
non-French,
> facing that no Foundation high-level members were present to this > Wikiconvention: no executive director, nor members of the Board, nor
any
> level-C staff. In an another conversation, where the subject came up
over
> again, someone said this absence was offensive. I do not know if it > reflects the majority of attendees feelings but with varying
degrees,
I
> would said it was widely shared. > > In 2017, for the Francophone Wikiconvention in Strasbourg we had a
very
> quick visit of Katherine Maher, in 2018, a simple video message and
in
2019 > ... nothing. At the same time, the Francophone Wikiconvention has
stepped
> up with ever more participants, always more countries represented.
This
> year, it brought together more than 220 Francophones, Algerian,
Belgian,
> Beninese, Cameroonian, Canadian, French, Guinean, Ivorian, Swiss and > Tunisian contributors, and I may forget some, with varied and
enriching
> conferences and meetings. A huge success, very well organized by employees > but also by several volunteers, who dedicated time and energy. This > Wikiconvention and the projects and achievements submitted have
shown
the
> French-speaking Wikimedia community vitality, which will continue to grow. > FYI, French is foreseen, thanks to Africa, to be the most rapidly
growing
> languages in the next twenty years and will be the mother tongue or
the
> language used for communication for more than 8% of the world's population > in thirty years' time. But my reaction would have been the same if I
had
> attended an Arabic, Chinese, Spanish, Swahili-speaking or any other > important languages Wikiconvention. > > So yes, this Wikiconvention is not in English. Fortunately, not all > Wikimedia meetings are in English. In a previous discussion on this mailing > list about the question of whether or not it is appropriate to
continue
> Wimania, one of the participants argued that unlike other Wikimedia > meetings, anyone could attend Wikmania. It may be obvious for those
who
> have English as a mother tongue or for Northern Europeans for whom English > is almost a second mother tongue but this is false: English is
spoken
only > by a small minority in the world, less than one human in six. So
only
one
> human in six or seven could attend Wikimania or any other english-speaking > conferences or meetings (the case of the vast majority of global Wikimedia > conferences). I do not deny a common working language usefulness
but a
> Wikiconvention in French, as I hope other languages ones will be
more
to
> come soon, allows all non-English speaking Francophones to
participate in
> the Wikimedia movement and above all, help them to meet our common
goal
of > spread freeknowledge.The movement talks a lot about its efforts to overcome > differents gaps (gender, LGBT,...) and it's rightly pointed, these
topics
> are important. But it simply forget the language gap and the almost > exclusive use of English excludes a very large majority. > > So why no high level Foundation members in Brussels ? > I was told that Valerie D'Costa, the new Chief of Community
Engagement,
> should initially be there but finally told she will not. But then,
no
other > member could then replace her and why only one Foundation
representant
> given the part of French language in the WM projects ? Perhaps no Foundation > Board or high level member speaks French or feels she/he speaks good enough. > But with more than 220 attendants at the FWC, it would have been
easy
to
> find volonteers with a good level of English to provide simultaneous > translation in discussions with other non-English speaking
participants
or to > translate conferences.A higher-level representation would have
helped
the
> Foundation top level to gain more insight into Wikimedian
French-speaking
> community and enabled this community to have a direct access to the > Foundation, like in Wikimania. That would have helped bridging the
gap
> between these "two worlds". Because this gap is real. In the 2011
Finance
> Meeting in Paris, during workshops where a Board member was in each > group (Jan-Bart > de Vreede for mine), me and another non english-speaking chapter
head
(she/he > will recognize her/himself) had made the comment that we had the impression > in our relation with the Foundation of "*colliding with an
Anglo-Saxon
wall*". > I notice that despite more Foundation staff diversity in recent
years,
> French speaking organizations would probably still have the same
feeling
> and clearly many French-speaking wikimedians feel that gap. > > It is sad that the Foundation, which is very demanding with
Francophone
> chapters, does not apply itself to these demands with the
Francophone
> community. FYI the next French-speaking Wikconvention will be held
on
WE
31 > october/1 November 2019 in Tunis. Save the date. > > Regards >
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Merci Delphine! Et moi je travaillais donc je n’ai pas pu faire les pre-learning days. Est-ce que ta présentation est en ligne? Bien à toi, Natacha
Le 17 sept. 2019 à 15:14, Delphine Ménard dmenard@wikimedia.org a écrit :
Hello,
I participated in the pre-conference in Brussels this year, to which I was invited to give a workshop about grants. I decided not to stay the whole 4 days because of personal commitments too.
Mais si tu as des questions sur les grants, je suis là :)
Best,
Delphine
On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 7:04 AM Natacha Rault via Wikimedia-l < wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
Thank you Katherine, We will be happy to see you in Tunis! Along with other reps of the WMF I hope, with the possibility of booking appointments with :
- T&S
- outreach
- grant rep
- tech rep
Kind regards,
Nattes à chat
Le 16 sept. 2019 à 23:54, Katherine Maher kmaher@wikimedia.org a
écrit :
Hi all,
Just a quick note that I was invited to Wikiconvention on Friday 9 August by Wikimedia France. On Monday 12 August (delayed by travel to
Wikimania!)
I sent a note expressing my regrets, as I had a family wedding to attend during that same weekend as the Convention. I also asked at the same time to be notified as soon as the 2020 Tunis dates were confirmed, so that I
or
other members of the Foundation's leadership team are able to plan to attend (and I have already put those dates in my calendar).
Unfortunately, as all volunteers know, sometimes personal/family commitments do preclude travel. I similarly cannot attend the CEE Conference due to a personal commitment this year. Sometimes there are
also
scheduling conflicts: This year the German-speaking WikiCon gathering is the same weekend as WikiArabia, and WikiCon North America is the same weekend as WikiIndaba. This means there's always going to be a sense of missing something important!
I would also agree with what Leila shared. I was very appreciative to be invited to Wikiconvention, WikiArabia, and WikiIndaba this year. But I
want
to respect that not every community feels that it is the place of the Foundation's ED to participate or speak at their events, and that's
totally
fine. I don't think people always need to hear from me, but I am always very happy to support any event in which I am invited!
Katherine
On Mon, Sep 16, 2019 at 2:25 PM Natacha Rault via Wikimedia-l < wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
Thanks for sharing this Leila! This is of course a useful angle. Nattes
Le 16 sept. 2019 à 21:51, Leila Zia leila@wikimedia.org a écrit :
Hi,
A different angle for looking at the question of WMF staff attending community events which may help this conversation:
As a staff member (and acknowledging that my position is none of the ones Thierry called out in their first email on this thread), with the exception of a few community events, I very much hesitate to attend a local community-run event unless the specific community, or at least one person from that community, has specifically invited me or told me I should consider attending. There is definitely some feeling of fear/self-consciousness on my end about entering in a place where I may not be welcome, where I impose my presence to others, or entering conversations where my expertise may not be valued/considered because I'm carrying a history which may or may not even be really mine.
I'm sharing my feelings and the way I think about whether to attend a local event or not here not to ask for empathy in my specific case (which is btw, always welcomed:) but to say that there may be other staff members like me, especially those who have joined WMF more recently, who may be in the same boat. My recommendation would be for the local communities to signal to the specific people which they want in their meetings that they're welcome to attend. At least this way you will know the person has felt invited/welcomed and will have a higher chance to decide to attend.
To be clear: I'm not saying WMF not attending this specific event would have been addressed by the above. I don't know. I'm just explaining one of the reasons this may have happened, and providing a suggestion to address this specific reason.
Best, Leila -- Leila Zia Principal Research Scientist, Head of Research Wikimedia Foundation
On Mon, Sep 16, 2019 at 4:20 AM Philip Kopetzky philip.kopetzky@gmail.com wrote:
Gereon, you clearly forget the whole Mediaviewer saga and attendance
of
WMF
staff at the following WikiCon in Cologne ;-) But that was a long time
ago
:-)
> On Mon, 16 Sep 2019 at 01:53, Gereon Kalkuhl gkalkuhl@freenet.de
wrote:
> > Since 2010 we have the WikiCon for the German language communities
with
> more than 300 attendants. I don't remember that the WMF has sent
anyone
> to these conventions. And why should they? It's all in German, the > communities are established and have strong chapters. I suppose the
same
> applies to the French language communites. The WMF visits emerging > communities, to learn about them and to help them by transfering > knowlege. They visit the CEE meetings, they visit Wiki Indabas. I
don't
> think that the WMF is neglecting big communities, it rather makes
sense
> that when sending employes across half the planet they check before, > what benefits the conferences have from their attendance and what > benefits their attendance bring to the particpants of the conference. > Cheers, Gereon > >> Am 15.09.2019 um 20:02 schrieb Thierry Coudray: >> "*The Foundation does not care so much of the French-speaking > contributors*". >> This harsh sentence is the translation of a statement in French,
I've
> just >> said in a conversation a week ago at the Francophone Wikiconvention
held
>> last weekend in Brussels. The statement may seem excessive, because
the
>> Foundation does things for the Francophone community as well as for
other
>> communities (and its website is fairly well translated into French).
But
> it >> reflected my feeling, shared by my three interlocutors, all
non-French,
>> facing that no Foundation high-level members were present to this >> Wikiconvention: no executive director, nor members of the Board, nor
any
>> level-C staff. In an another conversation, where the subject came up
over
>> again, someone said this absence was offensive. I do not know if it >> reflects the majority of attendees feelings but with varying
degrees,
I
>> would said it was widely shared. >> >> In 2017, for the Francophone Wikiconvention in Strasbourg we had a
very
>> quick visit of Katherine Maher, in 2018, a simple video message and
in
> 2019 >> ... nothing. At the same time, the Francophone Wikiconvention has
stepped
>> up with ever more participants, always more countries represented.
This
>> year, it brought together more than 220 Francophones, Algerian,
Belgian,
>> Beninese, Cameroonian, Canadian, French, Guinean, Ivorian, Swiss and >> Tunisian contributors, and I may forget some, with varied and
enriching
>> conferences and meetings. A huge success, very well organized by > employees >> but also by several volunteers, who dedicated time and energy. This >> Wikiconvention and the projects and achievements submitted have
shown
the
>> French-speaking Wikimedia community vitality, which will continue to > grow. >> FYI, French is foreseen, thanks to Africa, to be the most rapidly
growing
>> languages in the next twenty years and will be the mother tongue or
the
>> language used for communication for more than 8% of the world's > population >> in thirty years' time. But my reaction would have been the same if I
had
>> attended an Arabic, Chinese, Spanish, Swahili-speaking or any other >> important languages Wikiconvention. >> >> So yes, this Wikiconvention is not in English. Fortunately, not all >> Wikimedia meetings are in English. In a previous discussion on this > mailing >> list about the question of whether or not it is appropriate to
continue
>> Wimania, one of the participants argued that unlike other Wikimedia >> meetings, anyone could attend Wikmania. It may be obvious for those
who
>> have English as a mother tongue or for Northern Europeans for whom > English >> is almost a second mother tongue but this is false: English is
spoken
> only >> by a small minority in the world, less than one human in six. So
only
one
>> human in six or seven could attend Wikimania or any other > english-speaking >> conferences or meetings (the case of the vast majority of global > Wikimedia >> conferences). I do not deny a common working language usefulness
but a
>> Wikiconvention in French, as I hope other languages ones will be
more
to
>> come soon, allows all non-English speaking Francophones to
participate in
>> the Wikimedia movement and above all, help them to meet our common
goal
> of >> spread freeknowledge.The movement talks a lot about its efforts to > overcome >> differents gaps (gender, LGBT,...) and it's rightly pointed, these
topics
>> are important. But it simply forget the language gap and the almost >> exclusive use of English excludes a very large majority. >> >> So why no high level Foundation members in Brussels ? >> I was told that Valerie D'Costa, the new Chief of Community
Engagement,
>> should initially be there but finally told she will not. But then,
no
> other >> member could then replace her and why only one Foundation
representant
>> given the part of French language in the WM projects ? Perhaps no > Foundation >> Board or high level member speaks French or feels she/he speaks good > enough. >> But with more than 220 attendants at the FWC, it would have been
easy
to
>> find volonteers with a good level of English to provide simultaneous >> translation in discussions with other non-English speaking
participants
> or to >> translate conferences.A higher-level representation would have
helped
the
>> Foundation top level to gain more insight into Wikimedian
French-speaking
>> community and enabled this community to have a direct access to the >> Foundation, like in Wikimania. That would have helped bridging the
gap
>> between these "two worlds". Because this gap is real. In the 2011
Finance
>> Meeting in Paris, during workshops where a Board member was in each >> group (Jan-Bart >> de Vreede for mine), me and another non english-speaking chapter
head
> (she/he >> will recognize her/himself) had made the comment that we had the > impression >> in our relation with the Foundation of "*colliding with an
Anglo-Saxon
> wall*". >> I notice that despite more Foundation staff diversity in recent
years,
>> French speaking organizations would probably still have the same
feeling
>> and clearly many French-speaking wikimedians feel that gap. >> >> It is sad that the Foundation, which is very demanding with
Francophone
>> chapters, does not apply itself to these demands with the
Francophone
>> community. FYI the next French-speaking Wikconvention will be held
on
WE
> 31 >> october/1 November 2019 in Tunis. Save the date. >> >> Regards >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe:
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--
Katherine Maher (she/her)
Executive Director
Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
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-- Delphine Ménard (she/her) Wikimedia Foundation Strategy Liaison Program Officer Annual Plan Grants
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Before we call out individuals for lack of attendance publicly, I think we should remember that both volunteers and staff have lives outside of Wikimedia that include children, families and other commitments in life. They all come with complications. Sometimes things don't work out. There are tens of conferences every year at various scales all over the world. Many staff and volunteer board members will have recently just travelled to Wikimania and a strategy summit in Tunis. Attendance at these events is often to the detriment to people's personal lives to some degree.
So please lets just be careful about how we talk about this and keep the above in mind.
Regards Seddon
On Sun, Sep 15, 2019 at 7:02 PM Thierry Coudray tcoudray@gmail.com wrote:
"*The Foundation does not care so much of the French-speaking contributors*". This harsh sentence is the translation of a statement in French, I've just said in a conversation a week ago at the Francophone Wikiconvention held last weekend in Brussels. The statement may seem excessive, because the Foundation does things for the Francophone community as well as for other communities (and its website is fairly well translated into French). But it reflected my feeling, shared by my three interlocutors, all non-French, facing that no Foundation high-level members were present to this Wikiconvention: no executive director, nor members of the Board, nor any level-C staff. In an another conversation, where the subject came up over again, someone said this absence was offensive. I do not know if it reflects the majority of attendees feelings but with varying degrees, I would said it was widely shared.
In 2017, for the Francophone Wikiconvention in Strasbourg we had a very quick visit of Katherine Maher, in 2018, a simple video message and in 2019 ... nothing. At the same time, the Francophone Wikiconvention has stepped up with ever more participants, always more countries represented. This year, it brought together more than 220 Francophones, Algerian, Belgian, Beninese, Cameroonian, Canadian, French, Guinean, Ivorian, Swiss and Tunisian contributors, and I may forget some, with varied and enriching conferences and meetings. A huge success, very well organized by employees but also by several volunteers, who dedicated time and energy. This Wikiconvention and the projects and achievements submitted have shown the French-speaking Wikimedia community vitality, which will continue to grow. FYI, French is foreseen, thanks to Africa, to be the most rapidly growing languages in the next twenty years and will be the mother tongue or the language used for communication for more than 8% of the world's population in thirty years' time. But my reaction would have been the same if I had attended an Arabic, Chinese, Spanish, Swahili-speaking or any other important languages Wikiconvention.
So yes, this Wikiconvention is not in English. Fortunately, not all Wikimedia meetings are in English. In a previous discussion on this mailing list about the question of whether or not it is appropriate to continue Wimania, one of the participants argued that unlike other Wikimedia meetings, anyone could attend Wikmania. It may be obvious for those who have English as a mother tongue or for Northern Europeans for whom English is almost a second mother tongue but this is false: English is spoken only by a small minority in the world, less than one human in six. So only one human in six or seven could attend Wikimania or any other english-speaking conferences or meetings (the case of the vast majority of global Wikimedia conferences). I do not deny a common working language usefulness but a Wikiconvention in French, as I hope other languages ones will be more to come soon, allows all non-English speaking Francophones to participate in the Wikimedia movement and above all, help them to meet our common goal of spread freeknowledge.The movement talks a lot about its efforts to overcome differents gaps (gender, LGBT,...) and it's rightly pointed, these topics are important. But it simply forget the language gap and the almost exclusive use of English excludes a very large majority.
So why no high level Foundation members in Brussels ? I was told that Valerie D'Costa, the new Chief of Community Engagement, should initially be there but finally told she will not. But then, no other member could then replace her and why only one Foundation representant given the part of French language in the WM projects ? Perhaps no Foundation Board or high level member speaks French or feels she/he speaks good enough. But with more than 220 attendants at the FWC, it would have been easy to find volonteers with a good level of English to provide simultaneous translation in discussions with other non-English speaking participants or to translate conferences.A higher-level representation would have helped the Foundation top level to gain more insight into Wikimedian French-speaking community and enabled this community to have a direct access to the Foundation, like in Wikimania. That would have helped bridging the gap between these "two worlds". Because this gap is real. In the 2011 Finance Meeting in Paris, during workshops where a Board member was in each group (Jan-Bart de Vreede for mine), me and another non english-speaking chapter head (she/he will recognize her/himself) had made the comment that we had the impression in our relation with the Foundation of "*colliding with an Anglo-Saxon wall*". I notice that despite more Foundation staff diversity in recent years, French speaking organizations would probably still have the same feeling and clearly many French-speaking wikimedians feel that gap.
It is sad that the Foundation, which is very demanding with Francophone chapters, does not apply itself to these demands with the Francophone community. FYI the next French-speaking Wikconvention will be held on WE 31 october/1 November 2019 in Tunis. Save the date.
Regards
-- Thierry
PS. Assas, Diane and Benoit (for those I met) don't take this personaly. Your presence was appreciate and you avoid the Foundation relationship with French Community of a total Bérézina as we said in France. _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
All of the people you wished were there _Who was invited ? _Was it before or after the days of the conference was choosen ? _What accomodation was given with the invitation ?
Le dim. 15 sept. 2019 à 23:07, Joseph Seddon josephseddon@gmail.com a écrit :
Before we call out individuals for lack of attendance publicly, I think we should remember that both volunteers and staff have lives outside of Wikimedia that include children, families and other commitments in life. They all come with complications. Sometimes things don't work out. There are tens of conferences every year at various scales all over the world. Many staff and volunteer board members will have recently just travelled to Wikimania and a strategy summit in Tunis. Attendance at these events is often to the detriment to people's personal lives to some degree.
So please lets just be careful about how we talk about this and keep the above in mind.
Regards Seddon
On Sun, Sep 15, 2019 at 7:02 PM Thierry Coudray tcoudray@gmail.com wrote:
"*The Foundation does not care so much of the French-speaking contributors*". This harsh sentence is the translation of a statement in French, I've
just
said in a conversation a week ago at the Francophone Wikiconvention held last weekend in Brussels. The statement may seem excessive, because the Foundation does things for the Francophone community as well as for other communities (and its website is fairly well translated into French). But
it
reflected my feeling, shared by my three interlocutors, all non-French, facing that no Foundation high-level members were present to this Wikiconvention: no executive director, nor members of the Board, nor any level-C staff. In an another conversation, where the subject came up over again, someone said this absence was offensive. I do not know if it reflects the majority of attendees feelings but with varying degrees, I would said it was widely shared.
In 2017, for the Francophone Wikiconvention in Strasbourg we had a very quick visit of Katherine Maher, in 2018, a simple video message and in
2019
... nothing. At the same time, the Francophone Wikiconvention has stepped up with ever more participants, always more countries represented. This year, it brought together more than 220 Francophones, Algerian, Belgian, Beninese, Cameroonian, Canadian, French, Guinean, Ivorian, Swiss and Tunisian contributors, and I may forget some, with varied and enriching conferences and meetings. A huge success, very well organized by
employees
but also by several volunteers, who dedicated time and energy. This Wikiconvention and the projects and achievements submitted have shown the French-speaking Wikimedia community vitality, which will continue to
grow.
FYI, French is foreseen, thanks to Africa, to be the most rapidly growing languages in the next twenty years and will be the mother tongue or the language used for communication for more than 8% of the world's
population
in thirty years' time. But my reaction would have been the same if I had attended an Arabic, Chinese, Spanish, Swahili-speaking or any other important languages Wikiconvention.
So yes, this Wikiconvention is not in English. Fortunately, not all Wikimedia meetings are in English. In a previous discussion on this
mailing
list about the question of whether or not it is appropriate to continue Wimania, one of the participants argued that unlike other Wikimedia meetings, anyone could attend Wikmania. It may be obvious for those who have English as a mother tongue or for Northern Europeans for whom
English
is almost a second mother tongue but this is false: English is spoken
only
by a small minority in the world, less than one human in six. So only one human in six or seven could attend Wikimania or any other
english-speaking
conferences or meetings (the case of the vast majority of global
Wikimedia
conferences). I do not deny a common working language usefulness but a Wikiconvention in French, as I hope other languages ones will be more to come soon, allows all non-English speaking Francophones to participate in the Wikimedia movement and above all, help them to meet our common goal
of
spread freeknowledge.The movement talks a lot about its efforts to
overcome
differents gaps (gender, LGBT,...) and it's rightly pointed, these topics are important. But it simply forget the language gap and the almost exclusive use of English excludes a very large majority.
So why no high level Foundation members in Brussels ? I was told that Valerie D'Costa, the new Chief of Community Engagement, should initially be there but finally told she will not. But then, no
other
member could then replace her and why only one Foundation representant given the part of French language in the WM projects ? Perhaps no Foundation Board or high level member speaks French or feels she/he speaks good enough. But with more than 220 attendants at the FWC, it would have been easy to find volonteers with a good level of English to provide simultaneous translation in discussions with other non-English speaking participants
or
to translate conferences.A higher-level representation would have helped the Foundation top level to gain more insight into Wikimedian French-speaking community and enabled this community to have a direct access to the Foundation, like in Wikimania. That would have helped bridging the gap between these "two worlds". Because this gap is real. In the 2011 Finance Meeting in Paris, during workshops where a Board member was in each group (Jan-Bart de Vreede for mine), me and another non english-speaking chapter head (she/he will recognize her/himself) had made the comment that we had the
impression
in our relation with the Foundation of "*colliding with an Anglo-Saxon wall*". I notice that despite more Foundation staff diversity in recent years, French speaking organizations would probably still have the same feeling and clearly many French-speaking wikimedians feel that gap.
It is sad that the Foundation, which is very demanding with Francophone chapters, does not apply itself to these demands with the Francophone community. FYI the next French-speaking Wikconvention will be held on WE
31
october/1 November 2019 in Tunis. Save the date.
Regards
-- Thierry
PS. Assas, Diane and Benoit (for those I met) don't take this personaly. Your presence was appreciate and you avoid the Foundation relationship
with
French Community of a total Bérézina as we said in France. _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Joseph
I saw no criticism of a named individual, but of the Foundation. With nearly three hundred employees and a budget of a hundred million dollars, when the Foundation commits to sending a representative to a meeting, it may reasonably be expected to have the resources to deliver on that commitment. Not to do so -- with an airy "Sometimes things don't work out" -- suggests either a very poor state of internal organisation or, as has been suggested here, a lack of commitment to the function that it was supposed to have been represented at.
Henry
On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 at 22:07, Joseph Seddon josephseddon@gmail.com wrote:
Before we call out individuals for lack of attendance publicly, I think we should remember that both volunteers and staff have lives outside of Wikimedia that include children, families and other commitments in life. They all come with complications. Sometimes things don't work out. There are tens of conferences every year at various scales all over the world. Many staff and volunteer board members will have recently just travelled to Wikimania and a strategy summit in Tunis. Attendance at these events is often to the detriment to people's personal lives to some degree.
So please lets just be careful about how we talk about this and keep the above in mind.
Regards Seddon
On Sun, Sep 15, 2019 at 7:02 PM Thierry Coudray tcoudray@gmail.com wrote:
"*The Foundation does not care so much of the French-speaking contributors*". This harsh sentence is the translation of a statement in French, I've
just
said in a conversation a week ago at the Francophone Wikiconvention held last weekend in Brussels. The statement may seem excessive, because the Foundation does things for the Francophone community as well as for other communities (and its website is fairly well translated into French). But
it
reflected my feeling, shared by my three interlocutors, all non-French, facing that no Foundation high-level members were present to this Wikiconvention: no executive director, nor members of the Board, nor any level-C staff. In an another conversation, where the subject came up over again, someone said this absence was offensive. I do not know if it reflects the majority of attendees feelings but with varying degrees, I would said it was widely shared.
In 2017, for the Francophone Wikiconvention in Strasbourg we had a very quick visit of Katherine Maher, in 2018, a simple video message and in
2019
... nothing. At the same time, the Francophone Wikiconvention has stepped up with ever more participants, always more countries represented. This year, it brought together more than 220 Francophones, Algerian, Belgian, Beninese, Cameroonian, Canadian, French, Guinean, Ivorian, Swiss and Tunisian contributors, and I may forget some, with varied and enriching conferences and meetings. A huge success, very well organized by
employees
but also by several volunteers, who dedicated time and energy. This Wikiconvention and the projects and achievements submitted have shown the French-speaking Wikimedia community vitality, which will continue to
grow.
FYI, French is foreseen, thanks to Africa, to be the most rapidly growing languages in the next twenty years and will be the mother tongue or the language used for communication for more than 8% of the world's
population
in thirty years' time. But my reaction would have been the same if I had attended an Arabic, Chinese, Spanish, Swahili-speaking or any other important languages Wikiconvention.
So yes, this Wikiconvention is not in English. Fortunately, not all Wikimedia meetings are in English. In a previous discussion on this
mailing
list about the question of whether or not it is appropriate to continue Wimania, one of the participants argued that unlike other Wikimedia meetings, anyone could attend Wikmania. It may be obvious for those who have English as a mother tongue or for Northern Europeans for whom
English
is almost a second mother tongue but this is false: English is spoken
only
by a small minority in the world, less than one human in six. So only one human in six or seven could attend Wikimania or any other
english-speaking
conferences or meetings (the case of the vast majority of global
Wikimedia
conferences). I do not deny a common working language usefulness but a Wikiconvention in French, as I hope other languages ones will be more to come soon, allows all non-English speaking Francophones to participate in the Wikimedia movement and above all, help them to meet our common goal
of
spread freeknowledge.The movement talks a lot about its efforts to
overcome
differents gaps (gender, LGBT,...) and it's rightly pointed, these topics are important. But it simply forget the language gap and the almost exclusive use of English excludes a very large majority.
So why no high level Foundation members in Brussels ? I was told that Valerie D'Costa, the new Chief of Community Engagement, should initially be there but finally told she will not. But then, no
other
member could then replace her and why only one Foundation representant given the part of French language in the WM projects ? Perhaps no Foundation Board or high level member speaks French or feels she/he speaks good enough. But with more than 220 attendants at the FWC, it would have been easy to find volonteers with a good level of English to provide simultaneous translation in discussions with other non-English speaking participants
or
to translate conferences.A higher-level representation would have helped the Foundation top level to gain more insight into Wikimedian French-speaking community and enabled this community to have a direct access to the Foundation, like in Wikimania. That would have helped bridging the gap between these "two worlds". Because this gap is real. In the 2011 Finance Meeting in Paris, during workshops where a Board member was in each group (Jan-Bart de Vreede for mine), me and another non english-speaking chapter head (she/he will recognize her/himself) had made the comment that we had the
impression
in our relation with the Foundation of "*colliding with an Anglo-Saxon wall*". I notice that despite more Foundation staff diversity in recent years, French speaking organizations would probably still have the same feeling and clearly many French-speaking wikimedians feel that gap.
It is sad that the Foundation, which is very demanding with Francophone chapters, does not apply itself to these demands with the Francophone community. FYI the next French-speaking Wikconvention will be held on WE
31
october/1 November 2019 in Tunis. Save the date.
Regards
-- Thierry
PS. Assas, Diane and Benoit (for those I met) don't take this personaly. Your presence was appreciate and you avoid the Foundation relationship
with
French Community of a total Bérézina as we said in France. _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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