I'm not sure what you mean by "rhetoric" here
Rhetoric is something said more for effect than for its informational value - humour and irony are forms of rhetoric. (They can still have informational value, but it's generally of secondary importance to the effect of the statement.)
Ah, that explains my confusion -- you were using a nonstandard definition of "rhetoric."
In any case, what I originally posted was meant to be understood primarily for its informational value and not merely appreciated for my inimitable style and flare.
It also helps to English - we're generally much more used to sarcasm and similar forms of rhetoric than, say, Americans.
In light of this exchange, you're being ironic here, right? :)
--Mike
On 04/12/2007, Mike Godwin mnemonic@gmail.com wrote:
I'm not sure what you mean by "rhetoric" here
Rhetoric is something said more for effect than for its informational value - humour and irony are forms of rhetoric. (They can still have informational value, but it's generally of secondary importance to the effect of the statement.)
Ah, that explains my confusion -- you were using a nonstandard definition of "rhetoric."
No... I don't think so: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/rhetoric
In any case, what I originally posted was meant to be understood primarily for its informational value and not merely appreciated for my inimitable style and flare.
Maybe, but your reason for presenting that information in the way you did was for effect. You could have just stated it straight.
It also helps to English - we're generally much more used to sarcasm and similar forms of rhetoric than, say, Americans.
In light of this exchange, you're being ironic here, right? :)
No, factual. In my experience, Americans have great difficulty recognising sarcasm (in general, of course). It's just a cultural thing. I have great difficultly understanding baseball and American football metaphors, while most Americans seem to be able to use them fluently - it's much the same thing.
on 12/4/07 6:27 PM, Thomas Dalton at thomas.dalton@gmail.com wrote:
No, factual. In my experience, Americans have great difficulty recognising sarcasm (in general, of course). It's just a cultural thing. I have great difficultly understanding baseball and American football metaphors, while most Americans seem to be able to use them fluently - it's much the same thing.
Not really, Thomas. Metaphors are grasped cognitively; while sarcasm relies more on the emotions.
Marc
On 05/12/2007, Marc Riddell michaeldavid86@comcast.net wrote:
on 12/4/07 6:27 PM, Thomas Dalton at thomas.dalton@gmail.com wrote:
No, factual. In my experience, Americans have great difficulty recognising sarcasm (in general, of course). It's just a cultural thing. I have great difficultly understanding baseball and American football metaphors, while most Americans seem to be able to use them fluently - it's much the same thing.
Not really, Thomas. Metaphors are grasped cognitively; while sarcasm relies more on the emotions.
Yes, but the reason I'm good at understanding sarcasm is because I'm frequently exposed to it due to it's common place in my culture. The reason Americans are good are understanding sports metaphors is because they are frequently exposed to them due to their common place in their culture. Also, while sarcasm is emotional, it is usually expressed without emotion ("dead pan"), which is what makes it difficult to recognise for the uninitiated.
This is rather off-topic, though... Shall we call it a day on this analysis of a throw-away comment?
On Dec 5, 2007 1:27 AM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com wrote:
On 04/12/2007, Mike Godwin mnemonic@gmail.com wrote:
I'm not sure what you mean by "rhetoric" here
Rhetoric is something said more for effect than for its informational value - humour and irony are forms of rhetoric. (They can still have informational value, but it's generally of secondary importance to the effect of the statement.)
Ah, that explains my confusion -- you were using a nonstandard definition of "rhetoric."
No... I don't think so: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/rhetoric
I do think in point of fact Mike has the better of you here.
If you mean definition two in wiktionary, that one is the vulgar use of the word.
The standard meaning of rhetoric is outlined in good depth, not at wiktionary, but at the wikipedia article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhetoric
-- Jussi-Ville Heiskanen, ~ [[User:Cimon Avaro]]
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