This seems to apply to the whole Foundation, so I am cross-posting here.
____________________ Mitch D. (Greeves on all English Wikimedia projects)
-----Original Message----- From: wikimediameta-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wikimediameta-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Slim Virgin Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 10:25 PM To: wikimediameta-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: [Wikimediameta-l] Wikimedia and cyberstalking
I'm writing a paper on cyberstalking and harassment, which I hope to hand to the Foundation with a view to educating people about the extent of the problem on the Wikimedia projects, and if possible improving their responses to it.
I'd like to include some concrete examples of cyberstalking or offline stalking that have happened to users as a result of their participation in any of the Wikimedia projects, and particularly where the target was picked on because they were an administrator.
If you've been a target of this yourself, or if you know of anyone who has, I'd appreciate hearing from you at slimvirgin at gmail dot com. All replies will be received in strictest confidence. Your name would not have to be included in the final document, and if you're worried about being exposed in any way, I can change all identifying details. Nothing will be included about you without your express permission.
What I'm most interested in hearing about is how the cyberstalking or harassment made you feel, and what happened when you tried to find support. I'd like to hear about your fears; whether it made you anxious; whether it affected your sleep or appetite, or your health in any other way; and whether you considered ending your association with the project you were involved in (or did end it). Even if your fears felt completely irrational, I'd like to hear about them.
I'd also like to hear from women who feel they were subjected to additional harassment because of their sex, or from gays and members of ethnic minorities who feel they were picked on in whole or in part because of that.
Many thanks,
Sarah
_______________________________________________ Wikimediameta-l mailing list Wikimediameta-l@lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediameta-l
I'm writing a paper on cyberstalking and harassment, which I hope to hand to the Foundation with a view to educating people about the extent of the problem on the Wikimedia projects, and if possible improving their responses to it.
I'd like to include some concrete examples of cyberstalking or offline stalking that have happened to users as a result of their participation in any of the Wikimedia projects, and particularly where the target was picked on because they were an administrator.
[...] I'd also like to hear from women who feel they were subjected to additional harassment because of their sex, or from gays and members of ethnic minorities who feel they were picked on in whole or in part because of that.
With all due respect this seems somewhat backwards. A useful sociological study would be: To what extent is "cyberstalking" and harrassment a problem on Wikimedia Foundation projects, and if it is a significant problem, what character does it take? This proposal puts the cart behind the horse, opining, despite admittedly not having "concrete examples", that it is a serious problem that the Foundation is not responding to appropriately, and then trolling for anecdotes. That strikes me as more like a class-action-lawyer's method of operating than a valid methodology for sociology research, and I can already guess what the results of a study carried out in that fashion are going to be, since the proposed study outlines pretty openly what it plans to find.
-Mark
I'm not sure if SlimVirgin is subscribed here, I'll CC: it to her.
On 9/4/07, Delirium <delirium@hackish.org > wrote:
I'm writing a paper on cyberstalking and harassment, which I hope to hand to the Foundation with a view to educating people about the extent of the problem on the Wikimedia projects, and if possible improving their responses to it.
I'd like to include some concrete examples of cyberstalking or offline stalking that have happened to users as a result of their participation in any of the Wikimedia projects, and particularly where the target was picked on because they were an administrator.
[...] I'd also like to hear from women who feel they were subjected to additional harassment because of their sex, or from gays and members of ethnic minorities who feel they were picked on in whole or in part because of that.
With all due respect this seems somewhat backwards. A useful sociological study would be: To what extent is "cyberstalking" and harrassment a problem on Wikimedia Foundation projects, and if it is a significant problem, what character does it take? This proposal puts the cart behind the horse, opining, despite admittedly not having "concrete examples", that it is a serious problem that the Foundation is not responding to appropriately, and then trolling for anecdotes. That strikes me as more like a class-action-lawyer's method of operating than a valid methodology for sociology research, and I can already guess what the results of a study carried out in that fashion are going to be, since the proposed study outlines pretty openly what it plans to find.
-Mark
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
On 05/09/07, Delirium delirium@hackish.org wrote:
With all due respect this seems somewhat backwards. A useful sociological study would be:
She didn't say she was writing a sociological study. "A paper" could be anything from very informal to peer-reviewed.
This proposal puts the
cart behind the horse, opining, despite admittedly not having "concrete examples", that it is a serious problem that the Foundation is not responding to appropriately, and then trolling for anecdotes.
Asking for private emails could be trolling?? ...
regards, Brianna
On 9/4/07, Brianna Laugher brianna.laugher@gmail.com wrote:
On 05/09/07, Delirium delirium@hackish.org wrote:
With all due respect this seems somewhat backwards. A useful sociological study would be:
She didn't say she was writing a sociological study. "A paper" could be anything from very informal to peer-reviewed.
This proposal puts the
cart behind the horse, opining, despite admittedly not having "concrete examples", that it is a serious problem that the Foundation is not responding to appropriately, and then trolling for anecdotes.
Asking for private emails could be trolling?? ...
regards, Brianna
"Trolling for anecdotes"?
Mark, first, this isn't an academic paper, though even if it were, there'd be nothing wrong with asking targets to contact me.
Secondly, I don't say it's a serious problem. I believe it is, but I'd first of all like to hear from people who've experienced it.
Third, my main concern is to document how stalking makes people feel. There seems to be an ideology on Wikipedia that targets should just toughen up, grow a thicker skin, or "man up," as the editor of Salon put it. So I think it'll be helpful to document what effect these experiences have.
Finally, it's not a question of claiming that the Foundation isn't responding appropriately. It's not responding at all. This is because it's not aware of the extent of the problem, and it's not clear what it *could* do, given its limited resources. Anything that gathers up examples and tries to show the type of problem we're dealing with is surely likely to help, if only in a small way.
Sarah
Mark only posted part of my e-mail to another list. I was intending to send a request for information to this list too, so here it is.
I'm writing a paper on cyberstalking and harassment, which I hope to hand to the Foundation with a view to educating people about the extent of the problem on the Wikimedia projects, and hopefully improving their responses to it.
I'd like to include some concrete examples of cyberstalking or offline stalking that have happened to users as a result of their participation in any of the Wikimedia projects, and particularly where the target was picked on because they were an administrator.
If you've been a target of this yourself, or if you know of anyone who has, I'd appreciate hearing from you at slimvirgin at gmail dot com. All replies will be received in strictest confidence. Your name would not have to be included in the final document, and if you're worried about being exposed in any way, I can change all identifying details. Nothing will be included about you without your express permission.
What I'm most interested in hearing about is how the cyberstalking or harassment made you feel, and what happened when you tried to find support. I'd like to hear about your fears; whether it made you anxious; whether it affected your sleep or appetite, or your health in any other way; and whether you considered ending your association with the project you were involved in (or did end it). Even if your fears felt completely irrational, I'd like to hear about them.
I'd also like to hear from women who feel they were subjected to additional harassment because of their sex, or from gays, lesbians, and members of ethnic minorities who feel they were picked on in whole or in part because of that.
Many thanks,
Brianna Laugher wrote:
On 05/09/07, Delirium delirium@hackish.org wrote:
This proposal puts the
cart behind the horse, opining, despite admittedly not having "concrete examples", that it is a serious problem that the Foundation is not responding to appropriately, and then trolling for anecdotes.
Asking for private emails could be trolling?? ...
To clarify, I wasn't accusing anyone of "trolling" in the internet-jargon sense of the term, but just the more tradition sense of setting out a lure and seeing what it draws in. Come to think of it, I suppose I could've just used the word "fishing".
-Mark
On 9/5/07, Delirium delirium@hackish.org wrote:
Brianna Laugher wrote:
On 05/09/07, Delirium delirium@hackish.org wrote:
This proposal puts the
cart behind the horse, opining, despite admittedly not having "concrete examples", that it is a serious problem that the Foundation is not responding to appropriately, and then trolling for anecdotes.
Asking for private emails could be trolling?? ...
To clarify, I wasn't accusing anyone of "trolling" in the internet-jargon sense of the term, but just the more tradition sense of setting out a lure and seeing what it draws in. Come to think of it, I suppose I could've just used the word "fishing".
-Mark
Or "asking." :-)
To clarify, I wasn't accusing anyone of "trolling" in the internet-jargon sense of the term, but just the more tradition sense of setting out a lure and seeing what it draws in. Come to think of it, I suppose I could've just used the word "fishing".
Yes, fishing would have been the better term. Even in the traditional sense, trolling implies deception.
On 9/4/07, Delirium delirium@hackish.org wrote:
I'm writing a paper on cyberstalking and harassment, which I hope to hand to the Foundation with a view to educating people about the extent of the problem on the Wikimedia projects, and if possible improving their responses to it.
I'd like to include some concrete examples of cyberstalking or offline stalking that have happened to users as a result of their participation in any of the Wikimedia projects, and particularly where the target was picked on because they were an administrator.
[...] I'd also like to hear from women who feel they were subjected to additional harassment because of their sex, or from gays and members of ethnic minorities who feel they were picked on in whole or in part because of that.
With all due respect this seems somewhat backwards. A useful sociological study would be: To what extent is "cyberstalking" and harrassment a problem on Wikimedia Foundation projects, and if it is a significant problem, what character does it take? This proposal puts the cart behind the horse, opining, despite admittedly not having "concrete examples", that it is a serious problem that the Foundation is not responding to appropriately, and then trolling for anecdotes. That strikes me as more like a class-action-lawyer's method of operating than a valid methodology for sociology research, and I can already guess what the results of a study carried out in that fashion are going to be, since the proposed study outlines pretty openly what it plans to find.
-Mark
It's false to gather some ancedotes and then use that to try and statistically demonstrate a problem. But if the ancedotal incidents have not been well understood or discussed in the community, they can help characterize the problem (if not its extent, which requires working in from the other side with population statistics).
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