*Hi, I want to remind you that on 26 Nov 2008 ** http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2008-November/047554.html*http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2008-November/047554.html * you have promised that subdomain name mo will become mo-cyrl, it's July now and mo is still not yet renamed.* * * *If you cannot rename please delete it altogether.
Hope to get a ETA, or to know at which point is the progress.
Brion Vibber and his superiors, please make a room for this task to be done, also I (as a programmer) can volunteer to help you do this thing if you have a lack of resources !
IT'S IMPORTANT ! *
Hi Cetateanu --
As replied previously, we don't yet have infrastructure for conveniently renaming sites. Given that the site has been locked for years and there's nothing to replace it with at mo.wikipedia.org, it's no higher on our priority list than the other sites that have language code renames pending.
Since we've been in the midst of a slow migration of external text storage as well, it's slid farther back on the burner than planned. I'll see if we can make sure it's on the radar at least...
The problem isn't intractable, but merely inconvenient, and due to the number of sites & databases needing renaming it needs to be scripted and tested for safety first:
* Ensure language/localization files have been updated for new language code
* Lock site
* Rename public file storage subdirectories
* Rename private file storage subdirectories
* Ensure all site config entries have been updated for new language code
* Rename core database on primary database cluster (create new database, rename all tables, drop old empty database)
* Ensure that all slave databases were properly updated
* Rename blob databases on all external storage clusters (for each of 22 clusters, create new database, rename all tables, drop old empty databases)
* Ensure that all slave databases were properly updated
* Make sure it didn't break anything _else_...
* Unlock site
* Rename or move data dump archives
* Check if anything else needs cleaning up in recent changes channels, interwiki links, or other output.
-- brion vibber (brion @ wikimedia.org)
Cetateanu Moldovanu wrote:
*Hi, I want to remind you that on 26 Nov 2008 **http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2008-November/047554.html*... you have promised that subdomain name mo will become mo-cyrl, it's July now and mo is still not yet renamed.*
If you cannot rename please delete it altogether.
Hope to get a ETA, or to know at which point is the progress.
Brion Vibber and his superiors, please make a room for this task to be done, also I (as a programmer) can volunteer to help you do this thing if you have a lack of resources !
IT'S IMPORTANT !
Hello Mister Vibber,
I'm glad to see you already made a plan, I supose you know the best mediawiki and wikipedia architecture, aren't there anybody else to execute those points from that plan ?
Even if those points sounds havy, since the number of articles&files from mo is not so high, I'm sure you can do all those points in a day or two of work.
for each of 22 clusters
I'm sure you have a script to execute a command on all clusters at once and see the results.
Or in the meantime you build a "infrastructure for conveniently renaming sites", you can put in place a temporary solution that is easier to build. You could just make a new vhost(mo-cyrill) that point to the same dir as mo. And for mo you could make a htaccess (or equivalent) that would redirect all the request to the mo-cyrill (with a script that get REQUEST_URI and output a redirect header).
Hope to hear you soon.
Best regards,
On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 2:03 AM, Brion Vibber brion@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi Cetateanu --
As replied previously, we don't yet have infrastructure for conveniently renaming sites. Given that the site has been locked for years and there's nothing to replace it with at mo.wikipedia.org, it's no higher on our priority list than the other sites that have language code renames pending.
Since we've been in the midst of a slow migration of external text storage as well, it's slid farther back on the burner than planned. I'll see if we can make sure it's on the radar at least...
The problem isn't intractable, but merely inconvenient, and due to the number of sites & databases needing renaming it needs to be scripted and tested for safety first:
- Ensure language/localization files have been updated for new language
code
Lock site
Rename public file storage subdirectories
Rename private file storage subdirectories
Ensure all site config entries have been updated for new language code
Rename core database on primary database cluster (create new database,
rename all tables, drop old empty database)
Ensure that all slave databases were properly updated
Rename blob databases on all external storage clusters (for each of 22
clusters, create new database, rename all tables, drop old empty databases)
Ensure that all slave databases were properly updated
Make sure it didn't break anything _else_...
Unlock site
Rename or move data dump archives
Check if anything else needs cleaning up in recent changes channels,
interwiki links, or other output.
-- brion vibber (brion @ wikimedia.org)
Cetateanu Moldovanu wrote:
*Hi, I want to remind you that on 26 Nov 2008 ** http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2008-November/047554.html*... have promised that subdomain name mo will become mo-cyrl, it's July now and mo is still not yet renamed.*
If you cannot rename please delete it altogether. Hope to get a ETA, or to know at which point is the progress. Brion Vibber and his superiors, please make a room for this task to be done, also I (as a programmer) can volunteer to help you do this thing if you have a lack of resources ! IT'S IMPORTANT !
Cetateanu Im going to be nice in how I say this, DO NOT DEMAND things from developers. If dev says they are not ready THEY ARE NOT READY. please also consider that these developers run one of the top ten websites on the internet, so they must be doing it right for the most part or the servers would be a smoking pile of rubble. There are a lot more complex and unseen factors that exist on large scale server arrays such as wikimedia's than what your recommending. If either of your ideas where feasible with the current system it would have been taken care of. Here is a suggestion, LET THE DEVELOPERS DEVELOP a good way to implement your request without breaking things
On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 3:47 PM, Cetateanu Moldovanu cetateanumd@gmail.comwrote:
Hello Mister Vibber,
I'm glad to see you already made a plan, I supose you know the best mediawiki and wikipedia architecture, aren't there anybody else to execute those points from that plan ?
Even if those points sounds havy, since the number of articles&files from mo is not so high, I'm sure you can do all those points in a day or two of work.
for each of 22 clusters
I'm sure you have a script to execute a command on all clusters at once and see the results.
Or in the meantime you build a "infrastructure for conveniently renaming sites", you can put in place a temporary solution that is easier to build. You could just make a new vhost(mo-cyrill) that point to the same dir as mo. And for mo you could make a htaccess (or equivalent) that would redirect all the request to the mo-cyrill (with a script that get REQUEST_URI and output a redirect header).
Hope to hear you soon.
Best regards,
On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 2:03 AM, Brion Vibber brion@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi Cetateanu --
As replied previously, we don't yet have infrastructure for conveniently renaming sites. Given that the site has been locked for years and there's nothing to replace it with at mo.wikipedia.org, it's no higher on our priority list than the other sites that have language code renames
pending.
Since we've been in the midst of a slow migration of external text
storage
as well, it's slid farther back on the burner than planned. I'll see if
we
can make sure it's on the radar at least...
The problem isn't intractable, but merely inconvenient, and due to the number of sites & databases needing renaming it needs to be scripted and tested for safety first:
- Ensure language/localization files have been updated for new language
code
Lock site
Rename public file storage subdirectories
Rename private file storage subdirectories
Ensure all site config entries have been updated for new language code
Rename core database on primary database cluster (create new database,
rename all tables, drop old empty database)
Ensure that all slave databases were properly updated
Rename blob databases on all external storage clusters (for each of 22
clusters, create new database, rename all tables, drop old empty
databases)
Ensure that all slave databases were properly updated
Make sure it didn't break anything _else_...
Unlock site
Rename or move data dump archives
Check if anything else needs cleaning up in recent changes channels,
interwiki links, or other output.
-- brion vibber (brion @ wikimedia.org)
Cetateanu Moldovanu wrote:
*Hi, I want to remind you that on 26 Nov 2008 **
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2008-November/047554.html*... promised that subdomain name mo will become mo-cyrl, it's July now
and mo is still not yet renamed.*
If you cannot rename please delete it altogether. Hope to get a ETA, or to know at which point is the progress. Brion Vibber and his superiors, please make a room for this task to be done, also I (as a programmer) can volunteer to help you do this thing
if
you have a lack of resources ! IT'S IMPORTANT !
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
2009/7/10 John Doe phoenixoverride@gmail.com:
Cetateanu Im going to be nice in how I say this, DO NOT DEMAND things from developers. If dev says they are not ready THEY ARE NOT READY. please also consider that these developers run one of the top ten websites on the internet, so they must be doing it right for the most part or the servers would be a smoking pile of rubble. There are a lot more complex and unseen factors that exist on large scale server arrays such as wikimedia's than what your recommending. If either of your ideas where feasible with the current system it would have been taken care of. Here is a suggestion, LET THE DEVELOPERS DEVELOP a good way to implement your request without breaking things
Given the current time over which the request has been ongoing and the politics involved (remeber they only stopped shooting each other 17years ago) I think it is understandable if people are not entirely prepared to sit back and hope the devs get on with it.
If there is one thing I've learned so far in my short life, it is that patience is among the greatest virtues and that politeness will usually get me much further than demands.
There are of course situations where it is necessary to be firm, however this is not one of them considering the power dynamic. If I want a developer to do something for me, the last thing I will do is demand they do it (mind you it's been several years since I asked anything of them as far as I can remember). It's certainly possible that they will forget about my request so I may remind them from time to time, but it's essential to recognize that they are very busy people, an already-locked Wikipedia with only several hundred articles is understandably going to be much lower on their list of priorities than problems involving the heavy traffic Wikis such as en.wp or de.wp.
I'm not suggesting that anybody ignore the issue, just that a different approach be taken to resolution.
Mark
On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 1:14 PM, genigeniice@gmail.com wrote:
2009/7/10 John Doe phoenixoverride@gmail.com:
Cetateanu Im going to be nice in how I say this, DO NOT DEMAND things from developers. If dev says they are not ready THEY ARE NOT READY. please also consider that these developers run one of the top ten websites on the internet, so they must be doing it right for the most part or the servers would be a smoking pile of rubble. There are a lot more complex and unseen factors that exist on large scale server arrays such as wikimedia's than what your recommending. If either of your ideas where feasible with the current system it would have been taken care of. Here is a suggestion, LET THE DEVELOPERS DEVELOP a good way to implement your request without breaking things
Given the current time over which the request has been ongoing and the politics involved (remeber they only stopped shooting each other 17years ago) I think it is understandable if people are not entirely prepared to sit back and hope the devs get on with it.
-- geni
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
2009/7/10 Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com:
I'm not suggesting that anybody ignore the issue, just that a different approach be taken to resolution.
I am. Nobody cares, approximately.
- d.
Okay, I can agree with that.
Mark
On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 3:25 PM, David Gerarddgerard@gmail.com wrote:
2009/7/10 Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com:
I'm not suggesting that anybody ignore the issue, just that a different approach be taken to resolution.
I am. Nobody cares, approximately.
- d.
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 10:06 PM, John Doe phoenixoverride@gmail.comwrote:
...
consider that these developers run one of the top ten websites on the
I didn't try to underestimate the *importance* of wikipedia. It just uber-ridicule that a rename of subdomain (even with all those sub-things) can take more than 7 months.. In this span of time someone motivated can launch a new wikipedia (I talk about the software), on the Internet things are happen fast.
I don't try to underestimate your work, but I think you could do those things faster..
And yes, wikipedia is one of "top ten websites", so much power, normally, that should involve you are more responsible, but I don't have such a feeling.
Hopefully you can give to this *little* thing a higher priority, or maybe you should hire more devs, you are a "top ten websites" or what the hell.
Deletion altogether of this subdomain is also acceptable, no point of keeping a dead locked wikipedia on a subdomain. (and you still link it from the first page of wikipedia..how ignorant can you be..).
On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 11:44 PM, Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com wrote:
If there is one thing I've learned so far in my short life, it is that patience is among the greatest virtues and that politeness will usually get me much further than demands.
As I said before, I'm a developer my self, and I know from my "experience", when something is not demanded, it is never implemented.
On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 12:25 AM, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
I am. Nobody cares, approximately.
Your point was very valuable to this thread, thank you. Amazingly, you "don't care" but you still wrote.
I care (my friends cares, my parents cares, my neighbours cares), and I will write as many time it will need.
On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 4:47 PM, Cetateanu Moldovanucetateanumd@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 10:06 PM, John Doe phoenixoverride@gmail.comwrote:
...
consider that these developers run one of the top ten websites on the
I didn't try to underestimate the *importance* of wikipedia. It just uber-ridicule that a rename of subdomain (even with all those sub-things) can take more than 7 months.. In this span of time someone motivated can launch a new wikipedia (I talk about the software), on the Internet things are happen fast.
I don't try to underestimate your work, but I think you could do those things faster..
And yes, wikipedia is one of "top ten websites", so much power, normally, that should involve you are more responsible, but I don't have such a feeling.
Hopefully you can give to this *little* thing a higher priority, or maybe you should hire more devs, you are a "top ten websites" or what the hell.
Deletion altogether of this subdomain is also acceptable, no point of keeping a dead locked wikipedia on a subdomain. (and you still link it from the first page of wikipedia..how ignorant can you be..).
On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 11:44 PM, Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com wrote:
If there is one thing I've learned so far in my short life, it is that patience is among the greatest virtues and that politeness will usually get me much further than demands.
As I said before, I'm a developer my self, and I know from my "experience", when something is not demanded, it is never implemented.
On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 12:25 AM, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
I am. Nobody cares, approximately.
*sigh* brion answered, let's everybody ignore further demands and things will happen when will happen we're just making more and more noise by explaining to him over and over that his request is not priority. Period.
Cetateanu Moldovanu wrote:
(and you still link it from the first page of wikipedia..how ignorant can you be..).
Be polite. I would otherwise sympathise with your situation, but DON'T-BE-RUDE. Moreover, the first page of wikipedia is managed by wikipedians, not by the developers...
wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org