foundation-l-request@wikimedia.org wrote:
Why are you mentioning that? That is a strawman due to the fact that I strongly support the scalable approach.
-- mav
Because your argument reduces the scalability.
Perhaps this entire thread could have been presented differently.
Board members? Would it be possible for you to discuss the Wikinews press credentialing process at some point? Currently we use the system in the same way high school and other non-professional journalism organizations do all over the world, but perhaps we should have something more than a tacit approval. One idea would be approval of a phrase such as:
''Wikinews editions may accredit persons according to their policies for the purpose of acting as freelance journalists when reporting on news events for Wikinews."
Would this answer your concerns, Mav? It clearly states the contributors are not representing Wikinews or the Wikimedia Foundation, limits when and how the credentials may be used, but allows the project to develop credentialing policies.
Amgine
Is anyone on this list actually using these credentials? That's who needs to be listened to. I would think an accreditation system which has the approval of the board (which doesn't mean the board micromanages it) would be the only useful system anyway. But maybe I'm wrong. Has anyone accomplished anything by saying "yeah, I'm a reporter for some website, you can go to this url and look at a page that anyone in the world can edit, and that proves it"?
On 11/8/05, Amgine amgine@saewyc.net wrote:
foundation-l-request@wikimedia.org wrote:
Why are you mentioning that? That is a strawman due to the fact that I strongly support the scalable approach.
-- mav
Because your argument reduces the scalability.
Perhaps this entire thread could have been presented differently.
Board members? Would it be possible for you to discuss the Wikinews press credentialing process at some point? Currently we use the system in the same way high school and other non-professional journalism organizations do all over the world, but perhaps we should have something more than a tacit approval. One idea would be approval of a phrase such as:
''Wikinews editions may accredit persons according to their policies for the purpose of acting as freelance journalists when reporting on news events for Wikinews."
Would this answer your concerns, Mav? It clearly states the contributors are not representing Wikinews or the Wikimedia Foundation, limits when and how the credentials may be used, but allows the project to develop credentialing policies.
Amgine
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
2005/11/9, Anthony DiPierro wikilegal@inbox.org:
But maybe I'm wrong. Has anyone accomplished anything by saying "yeah, I'm a reporter for some website, you can go to this url and look at a page that anyone in the world can edit, and that proves it"?
"Reporters" of pl.wikinews tried it two times. Once during a press conference, then trying to get into a place for photographers, to make a good photo for the article. We weren't let in, because we had no press credentials.
There you go. The point of this email is just to prove that we NEED press credentials, press badges, and stuff like that. But this also has to be international. This has to be discussed between the Wikinewsies of the major Wikinews languages and the Board.
-- Pozdrawiam, Dariusz "Datrio" Siedlecki
On 11/9/05, Dariusz Siedlecki datrio@gmail.com wrote:
2005/11/9, Anthony DiPierro wikilegal@inbox.org:
But maybe I'm wrong. Has anyone accomplished anything by saying "yeah,
I'm
a reporter for some website, you can go to this url and look at a page
that
anyone in the world can edit, and that proves it"?
"Reporters" of pl.wikinews tried it two times. Once during a press conference, then trying to get into a place for photographers, to make a good photo for the article. We weren't let in, because we had no press credentials.
There also might be an issue wrt privacy and publicity rights, but then again this might not be a problem for Wikinews since news reporting is generally an exception. But don't news reporters have to identify themselves and their company in order to be allowed to publish the quotes and/or the photos? Or is this just a courtesy? I don't know anything about this, but maybe someone on here would.
There you go. The point of this email is just to prove that we NEED
press credentials, press badges, and stuff like that. But this also has to be international. This has to be discussed between the Wikinewsies of the major Wikinews languages and the Board.
-- Pozdrawiam, Dariusz "Datrio" Siedlecki
Dariusz Siedlecki wrote:
There you go. The point of this email is just to prove that we NEED press credentials, press badges, and stuff like that. But this also has to be international. This has to be discussed between the Wikinewsies of the major Wikinews languages and the Board.
The interesting question is what happens when one Wikinews reporter abuses her credentials? Say for example that you are let into a press conference, and there you start to throw eggs and tomatoes on the politician. Who apologizes to the organizers? Who revokes the credentials for the reporter who misbehaved? Who promises that this won't happen again?
I guess it would have to be the press officer (Elian) or chairman (Jimbo) of the Wikimedia Foundation. But I'm just guessing.
If getting press credentials is too easy, they can easily be abused, and their value/usefulness might fall very quickly.
Lars Aronsson wrote:
The interesting question is what happens when one Wikinews reporter abuses her credentials? Say for example that you are let into a press conference, and there you start to throw eggs and tomatoes on the politician. Who apologizes to the organizers? Who revokes the credentials for the reporter who misbehaved? Who promises that this won't happen again?
The Wikinewsies revoke their credentials, of course. We have a process on Wikipedia (at least on en:) for removing Administrator access when admins abuse it, so I see no reason why Wikinewsies can't remove credentials from those who abuse them through a similar process. If it's some sort of dire emergency it can be temporarily done by fiat to speed things up, of course (the way developers can de-admin someone without waiting if it's a major problem).
-Mark
On 11/9/05, Delirium delirium@hackish.org wrote:
The Wikinewsies revoke their credentials, of course. We have a process on Wikipedia (at least on en:) for removing Administrator access when admins abuse it, so I see no reason why Wikinewsies can't remove credentials from those who abuse them through a similar process. If it's some sort of dire emergency it can be temporarily done by fiat to speed things up, of course (the way developers can de-admin someone without waiting if it's a major problem).
The accreditation policy does contain a provision for credential revokation. It also contains a provision about it being done by request from the board.
-ilya haykinson
The interesting question is what happens when one Wikinews reporter abuses her credentials? Say for example that you are let into a press conference, and there you start to throw eggs and tomatoes on the politician. Who apologizes to the organizers? Who revokes the credentials for the reporter who misbehaved? Who promises that this won't happen again?
Is it any different to someone going to a conference to talk about Wikipedia? It will be generally be assumed they're representing the Foundation, even though there was no community or Board approval for them to go there and do that. Why couldn't the people making the apology be the same people giving out the credentials - that is the community itself.
Angela.
Angela wrote:
Is it any different to someone going to a conference to talk about Wikipedia? It will be generally be assumed they're representing the Foundation, even though there was no community or Board approval for them to go there and do that.
If *I* speak about Wikipedia, I state very clearly that I'm *not* representing the foundation. (If I weren't, some people would be fast to throw eggs and tomatoes at me.)
Why couldn't the people making the apology be the same people giving out the credentials - that is the community itself.
That would be fine, if it works. The only point I wanted to make is that "press credentials" can be abused, and it is in the interest of all reporters that this situation can be handled.
Serious reporters would never throw tomatoes, of course, but a serious tomato thrower would do anything to get press credentials!
--- Lars Aronsson lars@aronsson.se wrote:
The interesting question is what happens when one Wikinews reporter abuses her credentials? Say for example that you are let into a press conference, and there you start to throw eggs and tomatoes on the politician. Who apologizes to the organizers? Who revokes the credentials for the reporter who misbehaved? Who promises that this won't happen again?
I guess it would have to be the press officer (Elian) or chairman (Jimbo) of the Wikimedia Foundation. But I'm just guessing.
If getting press credentials is too easy, they can easily be abused, and their value/usefulness might fall very quickly.
The good name of Wikinews and the foundation would also be harmed. This is exactly why the foundation needs to give this process high level oversight (again - all accreditation and reaccrediation will be handled by the community and almost all deaccreditation will be done by the community as well). I know that the potential of Jimbo being able to step in and nullify the ArbCom was often on my mind when I worked on that body. I think that that potentiality helped the ArbCom from going too far in the direction of grabbing power. People also need permission to use our marks in a way that implies an official connection. It is one thing to say you are a Wikinews reporter, it is something else entirely to say you are a credentialed Wikinews reporter and for you to show a badge with your photo, name, the Wikinews mark and the Wikinews logo on it. The first case does not require permission, the second case does.
-- mav
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