Hi all,
on behalf of the Board of Trustees I'm glad to announce the following statement about the travel guide RfC http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Travel_Guide :
Through the RfC, it is clear our community has reached consensus in favor of the creation of a travel guide. The Board supports the community decision to create a dedicated project for the collection of free multilingual travel resources. We believe there is an enormous amount of space for multiple wiki-based projects with travel content and welcome the contributions of community members from around the world. We look forward to having a project that can provide additional content for other travel sites to reuse and benefit from, which we believe this site will do.
As a project supported by the Wikimedia Foundation, it will be subject to the movement vision, mission, and values, as well as the Foundation Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. However, like all other Wikimedia projects, the community of contributors is responsible for the management and creation of the content, policies, rules, and governance of the new project. The community will be responsible for organizing the travel guide project, and once they have put all of the necessary pieces together and provided them to the Foundation staff, the Wikimedia Foundation will make the necessary technical adjustments to support the site. We look forward to a new project and appreciate the community taking the initiative to make this possible.
As we have reported in a blogpost [1], Internet Brands has filed a lawsuit against community members, and, in response, Wikimedia Foundation has filed a complaint against Internet Brands [2]. This lawsuit by Internet Brands is not going to intimidate the Foundation or stop the process.
[1] http://blog.wikimedia.org/2012/09/05/wikimedia-foundation-seeks-declaratory-... [2] https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/File:WMF_complaint_for_declaratory_judg...
Regards, Alice.
\o/
Nice!
and I'm wondering how they will sue for importing content that is on free license...
On 6 September 2012 10:21, Alice Wiegand awiegand@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi all,
on behalf of the Board of Trustees I'm glad to announce the following statement about the travel guide RfC http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Travel_Guide :
Through the RfC, it is clear our community has reached consensus in favor of the creation of a travel guide. The Board supports the community decision to create a dedicated project for the collection of free multilingual travel resources. We believe there is an enormous amount of space for multiple wiki-based projects with travel content and welcome the contributions of community members from around the world. We look forward to having a project that can provide additional content for other travel sites to reuse and benefit from, which we believe this site will do.
As a project supported by the Wikimedia Foundation, it will be subject to the movement vision, mission, and values, as well as the Foundation Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. However, like all other Wikimedia projects, the community of contributors is responsible for the management and creation of the content, policies, rules, and governance of the new project. The community will be responsible for organizing the travel guide project, and once they have put all of the necessary pieces together and provided them to the Foundation staff, the Wikimedia Foundation will make the necessary technical adjustments to support the site. We look forward to a new project and appreciate the community taking the initiative to make this possible.
As we have reported in a blogpost [1], Internet Brands has filed a lawsuit against community members, and, in response, Wikimedia Foundation has filed a complaint against Internet Brands [2]. This lawsuit by Internet Brands is not going to intimidate the Foundation or stop the process.
[1] http://blog.wikimedia.org/2012/09/05/wikimedia-foundation-seeks-declaratory-... [2] https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/File:WMF_complaint_for_declaratory_judg...
Regards, Alice.
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To be fair, it's nice to see that they recognize their community has a value :)
Flo
On 9/6/12 4:40 PM, Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton wrote:
\o/
Nice!
and I'm wondering how they will sue for importing content that is on free license...
On 6 September 2012 10:21, Alice Wiegand awiegand-AeOJrEpdGNeGglJvpFV4uA@public.gmane.org wrote:
Hi all,
on behalf of the Board of Trustees I'm glad to announce the following statement about the travel guide RfC http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Travel_Guide :
Through the RfC, it is clear our community has reached consensus in favor of the creation of a travel guide. The Board supports the community decision to create a dedicated project for the collection of free multilingual travel resources. We believe there is an enormous amount of space for multiple wiki-based projects with travel content and welcome the contributions of community members from around the world. We look forward to having a project that can provide additional content for other travel sites to reuse and benefit from, which we believe this site will do.
As a project supported by the Wikimedia Foundation, it will be subject to the movement vision, mission, and values, as well as the Foundation Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. However, like all other Wikimedia projects, the community of contributors is responsible for the management and creation of the content, policies, rules, and governance of the new project. The community will be responsible for organizing the travel guide project, and once they have put all of the necessary pieces together and provided them to the Foundation staff, the Wikimedia Foundation will make the necessary technical adjustments to support the site. We look forward to a new project and appreciate the community taking the initiative to make this possible.
As we have reported in a blogpost [1], Internet Brands has filed a lawsuit against community members, and, in response, Wikimedia Foundation has filed a complaint against Internet Brands [2]. This lawsuit by Internet Brands is not going to intimidate the Foundation or stop the process.
[1] http://blog.wikimedia.org/2012/09/05/wikimedia-foundation-seeks-declaratory-... [2] https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/File:WMF_complaint_for_declaratory_judg...
Regards, Alice.
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On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 7:40 AM, Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton rodrigo.argenton@gmail.com wrote:
and I'm wondering how they will sue for importing content that is on free license...
Well, it's "Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike", so will have to attribute Wikitravel and the original author(s) on every single page.
http://wikitravel.org/shared/Copyleft
On 7 September 2012 20:40, Daniel Zahn dzahn@wikimedia.org wrote:
On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 7:40 AM, Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton rodrigo.argenton@gmail.com wrote:
and I'm wondering how they will sue for importing content that is on free license...
Well, it's "Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike", so will have to attribute Wikitravel and the original author(s) on every single page.
Why attribute Wikitravel? The license only requires the author to be attributed, not the first publisher. Ideally, content will be copied across with the page history intact, which will constitute the appropriate attribution (in the same way it does on Wikipedia). I haven't been following too closely - are there any dumps available? It seems unlikely it will be possible to get any now (I doubt IB can be compelled to provide one).
2012/9/7 Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com
On 7 September 2012 20:40, Daniel Zahn dzahn@wikimedia.org wrote:
On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 7:40 AM, Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton rodrigo.argenton@gmail.com wrote:
and I'm wondering how they will sue for importing content that is on
free
license...
Well, it's "Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike", so will have to attribute Wikitravel and the original author(s) on every single page.
Why attribute Wikitravel? The license only requires the author to be attributed, not the first publisher. Ideally, content will be copied across with the page history intact, which will constitute the appropriate attribution (in the same way it does on Wikipedia). I haven't been following too closely - are there any dumps available? It seems unlikely it will be possible to get any now (I doubt IB can be compelled to provide one).
WikiTeam did some backups in 2011 but only the last version for every page, because the server was weak and unable to provide the complete history http://code.google.com/p/wikiteam/downloads/list?can=2&q=wikitravel
Indeed, they have started to "protect" themselves against the content export http://wikitravel.org/en/Special:Export
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On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 12:47 PM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com wrote:
haven't been following too closely - are there any dumps available? It seems unlikely it will be possible to get any now (I doubt IB can be compelled to provide one).
They just disabled their Special:Export page, but too late a bit since the WikiTeam already made these:
http://code.google.com/p/wikiteam/downloads/list?can=2&q=wikitravel
On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 12:47 PM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com wrote:
Why attribute Wikitravel? The license only requires the author to be attributed, not the first publisher. Ideally, content will be copied across with the page history intact
Really? it says.. "(2) credit the author, licensor and/or other parties (such as a wiki or journal) in the manner they specify; "
..and yeah, we don't appear to have the full history.
On 7 September 2012 20:59, Daniel Zahn dzahn@wikimedia.org wrote:
On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 12:47 PM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com wrote:
Why attribute Wikitravel? The license only requires the author to be attributed, not the first publisher. Ideally, content will be copied across with the page history intact
Really? it says.. "(2) credit the author, licensor and/or other parties (such as a wiki or journal) in the manner they specify; "
The page you linked to doesn't specify any particular form of attribution that I can see, so just crediting the author satisfies that requirement.
When we use 1911 Britannica texts, we only attribute to the encyclopedia, not its authors, so we can put "This text comes from Wikitravel".
Anyway, if we are going to use Wikitravel texts, writing a script to scrape just the usernames from histories is trivial http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Kaprun&action=history
2012/9/7 Daniel Zahn dzahn@wikimedia.org
On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 12:47 PM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com wrote:
Why attribute Wikitravel? The license only requires the author to be attributed, not the first publisher. Ideally, content will be copied across with the page history intact
Really? it says.. "(2) credit the author, licensor and/or other parties (such as a wiki or journal) in the manner they specify; "
..and yeah, we don't appear to have the full history.
-- Daniel Zahn dzahn@wikimedia.org Operations Engineer
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On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 4:11 PM, emijrp emijrp@gmail.com wrote:
When we use 1911 Britannica texts, we only attribute to the encyclopedia, not its authors, so we can put "This text comes from Wikitravel".
Anyway, if we are going to use Wikitravel texts, writing a script to scrape just the usernames from histories is trivial http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Kaprun&action=history
That's not really accurate, and not how Wikimedia projects expect to be credited either. "Wikipedia" or "Wikitravel" are not the authors of any project content (other than, for Wikitravel, that written by employees in the course of their employment).
How to re-use Wikitravel guides http://www.webcitation.org/6AVYKMbhE
Example of credits: http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Singapore&action=credits
2012/9/7 Nathan nawrich@gmail.com
On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 4:11 PM, emijrp emijrp@gmail.com wrote:
When we use 1911 Britannica texts, we only attribute to the encyclopedia, not its authors, so we can put "This text comes from Wikitravel".
Anyway, if we are going to use Wikitravel texts, writing a script to
scrape
just the usernames from histories is trivial http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Kaprun&action=history
That's not really accurate, and not how Wikimedia projects expect to be credited either. "Wikipedia" or "Wikitravel" are not the authors of any project content (other than, for Wikitravel, that written by employees in the course of their employment).
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Just write "Imported from Wikitravel" and list the names of all page authors by scrubbing the Wikitravel page. Attribution given, problem solved! (okay, not the import practicality bit)
On 7 September 2012 21:14, Nathan nawrich@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 4:11 PM, emijrp emijrp@gmail.com wrote:
When we use 1911 Britannica texts, we only attribute to the encyclopedia, not its authors, so we can put "This text comes from Wikitravel".
Anyway, if we are going to use Wikitravel texts, writing a script to
scrape
just the usernames from histories is trivial http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Kaprun&action=history
That's not really accurate, and not how Wikimedia projects expect to be credited either. "Wikipedia" or "Wikitravel" are not the authors of any project content (other than, for Wikitravel, that written by employees in the course of their employment).
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We have a complete set of articles and pictures including the complete history (August 2012 just a day before they disabled the api). We are about to migrate all articles on Wikivoyage. A test of Wikitravel:en articles and wikitravel:shared pictures on Wikivoyage is running. So we have a Wikivoyag/en and a second shared: now. Its the first step to move it to the WMF.
Please take participate on the discussion - especially concerning the proper attribution...
http://www.wikivoyage.org/general/Talk:Migration_FAQ#4._Legal_issues
Am 07.09.2012 22:21, schrieb Deryck Chan:
Just write "Imported from Wikitravel" and list the names of all page authors by scrubbing the Wikitravel page. Attribution given, problem solved! (okay, not the import practicality bit)
On 7 September 2012 21:14, Nathan nawrich@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 4:11 PM, emijrp emijrp@gmail.com wrote:
When we use 1911 Britannica texts, we only attribute to the encyclopedia, not its authors, so we can put "This text comes from Wikitravel".
Anyway, if we are going to use Wikitravel texts, writing a script to
scrape
just the usernames from histories is trivial http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Kaprun&action=history
That's not really accurate, and not how Wikimedia projects expect to be credited either. "Wikipedia" or "Wikitravel" are not the authors of any project content (other than, for Wikitravel, that written by employees in the course of their employment).
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On 7 Sep 2012, at 21:14, Nathan nawrich@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 4:11 PM, emijrp emijrp@gmail.com wrote:
When we use 1911 Britannica texts, we only attribute to the encyclopedia, not its authors, so we can put "This text comes from Wikitravel".
Anyway, if we are going to use Wikitravel texts, writing a script to scrape just the usernames from histories is trivial http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Kaprun&action=history
That's not really accurate, and not how Wikimedia projects expect to be credited either. "Wikipedia" or "Wikitravel" are not the authors of any project content (other than, for Wikitravel, that written by employees in the course of their employment).
We encourage attribution of Wikipedia articles as:
"This article uses material from the Wikipedia article "[[Metasyntactic variable]]", which is released under the [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ Creative Commons Attribution-Share-Alike License 3.0].
i.e. to the project not the authors…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:REUSE#Example_notice
Thanks, Mike
On 7 September 2012 21:25, Michael Peel michael.peel@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
We encourage attribution of Wikipedia articles as:
"This article uses material from the Wikipedia article "[[Metasyntactic variable]]", which is released under the [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ Creative Commons Attribution-Share-Alike License 3.0].
i.e. to the project not the authors…
Which is fine because the notice when you edit a page says:
"You agree that a hyperlink or URL is sufficient attribution under the Creative Commons license."
So linking to the article is providing attribution "in the manner they specify".
I can't see any similar notice on Wikitravel. I definitely can't see anything saying you are licensing it with a requirement to attribute to Wikitravel.
Actually the answer seems simple.
Whatever the IB site publicly displays and requires, we can observe what IB considers adequate, plus the attribution requirements of CC-by-SA and any non-conflicting wikitravel reuse terms and attribution to the site itself if needed.
We may do more (add diffs and other authors where omitted, link to an explanatory page), but whatever information IB provides, if we show at least the attribution information visible in IB's own public pages, it would inherently be hard for IB to sustain a claim of any fork inadequately attributing original authors.
Also attribution of "wikitravel" or "IB" itself is not a barrier. It doesn't provides any assistance to IB in terms of their presumed goal of preventing forking. It is trivial to meet any sane and legally necesary acknowledgement of wikitravel.com and/or IB, once IB stipulate (as they inevitably must) the attribution they feel to be acceptable and its legal basis.
Beyond that the rest is a matter for, 1/ the wikitravel community such as care to speak on it, and 2/ any minimum attribution the wikimedia community or the Foundation might feel is needed for best practice or license compliance. It may be possible in a number of ways but I'm sure a satisfactory agreement would not involve IB-style litigatory approaches.
FT2
On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 9:14 PM, Nathan nawrich@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 4:11 PM, emijrp emijrp@gmail.com wrote:
When we use 1911 Britannica texts, we only attribute to the encyclopedia, not its authors, so we can put "This text comes from Wikitravel".
Anyway, if we are going to use Wikitravel texts, writing a script to
scrape
just the usernames from histories is trivial http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Kaprun&action=history
That's not really accurate, and not how Wikimedia projects expect to be credited either. "Wikipedia" or "Wikitravel" are not the authors of any project content (other than, for Wikitravel, that written by employees in the course of their employment).
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On 9 September 2012 12:25, FT2 ft2.wiki@gmail.com wrote:
Whatever the IB site publicly displays and requires, we can observe what IB considers adequate, plus the attribution requirements of CC-by-SA and any non-conflicting wikitravel reuse terms and attribution to the site itself if needed.
There is also considerable past reuse of Wikitravel content, including by other commercial organisations. Whatever was done then and not sued over by IB would be a good start now.
- d.
On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 8:36 AM, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
On 9 September 2012 12:25, FT2 ft2.wiki@gmail.com wrote:
Whatever the IB site publicly displays and requires, we can observe what IB considers adequate, plus the attribution requirements of CC-by-SA and any non-conflicting wikitravel reuse terms and attribution to the site itself if needed.
All a bit academic in any case - IB didn't sue over the cc-by content and even acknowledged it can be reused. If they were to try to sue, they would have a pretty high standing hurdle to overcome given they don't own any of the content.
Academic yes, however it's "noise" in their claim.
On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 2:43 PM, Nathan nawrich@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 8:36 AM, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
On 9 September 2012 12:25, FT2 ft2.wiki@gmail.com wrote:
All a bit academic in any case - IB didn't sue over the cc-by content and even acknowledged it can be reused. If they were to try to sue, they would have a pretty high standing hurdle to overcome given they don't own any of the content.
On 7 September 2012 21:11, emijrp emijrp@gmail.com wrote:
When we use 1911 Britannica texts, we only attribute to the encyclopedia, not its authors, so we can put "This text comes from Wikitravel".
We use 1911 Britannica texts because they are in the public domain. We don't have to attribute them at all, but choose to because a) it is useful to readers for them to know where it came from and b) it avoids accusations of plagiarism.
On 7 September 2012 21:11, emijrp emijrp@gmail.com wrote:
When we use 1911 Britannica texts, we only attribute to the encyclopedia, not its authors, so we can put "This text comes from Wikitravel".
The 1911 EB is public domain; completely different situation.
- d.
On 7 September 2012 20:47, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com wrote:
On 7 September 2012 20:40, Daniel Zahn dzahn@wikimedia.org wrote:
Well, it's "Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike", so will have to attribute Wikitravel and the original author(s) on every single page. http://wikitravel.org/shared/Copyleft
Why attribute Wikitravel? The license only requires the author to be attributed, not the first publisher. Ideally, content will be copied across with the page history intact, which will constitute the appropriate attribution (in the same way it does on Wikipedia). I haven't been following too closely - are there any dumps available? It seems unlikely it will be possible to get any now (I doubt IB can be compelled to provide one).
People have been taking dumps of every page and its history, in preparation for forking. This was inspired by Internet Brands being reluctant to actually put up database dumps.
- d.
Le 06/09/2012 15:21, Alice Wiegand a écrit :
Hi all,
on behalf of the Board of Trustees I'm glad to announce the following statement about the travel guide RfC http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Travel_Guide :
Through the RfC, it is clear our community has reached consensus in favor of the creation of a travel guide. The Board supports the community decision to create a dedicated project (...)
That's fine! They could be a next one, if it meets adequate resolution. That would be will be Wikikids/Vikidia. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikikids
On Thu, Sep 06, 2012 at 03:21:55PM +0200, Alice Wiegand wrote:
Hi all,
on behalf of the Board of Trustees I'm glad to announce the following statement about the travel guide RfC http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Travel_Guide :
What are the next steps? Will the foundation first wait for all lawsuits to resolve, or will they start with working on providing the servers? What's the current time-frame?
sincerely, Kim Bruning
The Wikivoyage migration plans should be able to proceed. I haven't seen a specific plan for how that will work; it is still being discussed on Meta and on Wikivoyage.
Sam.
On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 1:46 PM, Kim Bruning kim@bruning.xs4all.nl wrote:
On Thu, Sep 06, 2012 at 03:21:55PM +0200, Alice Wiegand wrote:
Hi all,
on behalf of the Board of Trustees I'm glad to announce the following statement about the travel guide RfC http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Travel_Guide :
What are the next steps? Will the foundation first wait for all lawsuits to resolve, or will they start with working on providing the servers? What's the current time-frame?
sincerely, Kim Bruning
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We are about to migrate the WT data on WV as a first step ( http://www.wikivoyage.org/general/Migration_FAQ ). I am in touch with Erik as well. Till now i have got no time table and any further information from the WMF. But I am sure, during the next two weeks we will know more details about the procedure.
Stefan aka Fussi
Am 17.09.2012 19:31, schrieb Samuel Klein:
The Wikivoyage migration plans should be able to proceed. I haven't seen a specific plan for how that will work; it is still being discussed on Meta and on Wikivoyage.
Sam.
On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 1:46 PM, Kim Bruning kim@bruning.xs4all.nl wrote:
On Thu, Sep 06, 2012 at 03:21:55PM +0200, Alice Wiegand wrote:
Hi all,
on behalf of the Board of Trustees I'm glad to announce the following statement about the travel guide RfC http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Travel_Guide :
What are the next steps? Will the foundation first wait for all lawsuits to resolve, or will they start with working on providing the servers? What's the current time-frame?
sincerely, Kim Bruning
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That's one step better than I was hoping for,
If all y'all are already in close contact with Erik, then I'm no longer needed in this phase. :-)
(unless I can help with setup, or getting more data, or etc.)
Good luck, and have fun! :-)
sincerely, Kim Bruning
PS. do post regular updates on status. I'd love to know how things go from here! :-)
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 10:06:32PM +0200, Stefan Fussan wrote:
We are about to migrate the WT data on WV as a first step ( http://www.wikivoyage.org/general/Migration_FAQ ). I am in touch with Erik as well. Till now i have got no time table and any further information from the WMF. But I am sure, during the next two weeks we will know more details about the procedure.
Stefan aka Fussi
Am 17.09.2012 19:31, schrieb Samuel Klein:
The Wikivoyage migration plans should be able to proceed. I haven't seen a specific plan for how that will work; it is still being discussed on Meta and on Wikivoyage.
Sam.
On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 1:46 PM, Kim Bruning kim@bruning.xs4all.nl wrote:
On Thu, Sep 06, 2012 at 03:21:55PM +0200, Alice Wiegand wrote:
Hi all,
on behalf of the Board of Trustees I'm glad to announce the following statement about the travel guide RfC http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Travel_Guide :
What are the next steps? Will the foundation first wait for all lawsuits to resolve, or will they start with working on providing the servers? What's the current time-frame?
sincerely, Kim Bruning
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