Hi all,
Last week I noticed a nice design for the list info page of the WLM-US mailing list that I tweaked for this mailing list: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/cabal-l
What do you think? Mentally replace all instance of "cabal-l" with "wikimedia-l" and compare to https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l. Unfortunately Mailman only seems to allow this change to be made for the English version of the page, so if you try to view the page in another language, you'll still get the standard list info page.
Any objections to changing it?
You mean, there is a cabal-l? How I wish I was invited! ;-)
On 17 April 2013 21:30, Thehelpfulone thehelpfulonewiki@gmail.com wrote:
Hi all,
Last week I noticed a nice design for the list info page of the WLM-US mailing list that I tweaked for this mailing list: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/cabal-l
What do you think? Mentally replace all instance of "cabal-l" with "wikimedia-l" and compare to https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l. Unfortunately Mailman only seems to allow this change to be made for the English version of the page, so if you try to view the page in another language, you'll still get the standard list info page.
Any objections to changing it?
-- Thehelpfulone https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Thehelpfulone _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Le 2013-04-17 23:33, Deryck Chan a écrit :
You mean, there is a cabal-l? How I wish I was invited! ;-)
Of course not: there's no cabal my friend. ;)
On 17 April 2013 21:30, Thehelpfulone thehelpfulonewiki@gmail.com wrote:
Hi all,
Last week I noticed a nice design for the list info page of the WLM-US mailing list that I tweaked for this mailing list: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/cabal-l
What do you think? Mentally replace all instance of "cabal-l" with "wikimedia-l" and compare to https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l. Unfortunately Mailman only seems to allow this change to be made for the English version of the page, so if you try to view the page in another language, you'll still get the standard list info page.
Any objections to changing it?
-- Thehelpfulone https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Thehelpfulone _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Beautiful! Instant love (not that difficult actually, compared to the dated default Mailman design).
On 04/17/2013 01:30 PM, Thehelpfulone wrote:
Any objections to changing it?
No objections to have this design becoming the new standard for all our lists. :)
Or at least you are welcome to implement it right away at wikitech-announce.
Thehelpfulone wrote:
Last week I noticed a nice design for the list info page of the WLM-US mailing list that I tweaked for this mailing list: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/cabal-l
Unquestionably a major improvement over the default mailman theme. I'm not sure I love the black background, but it would be great to see any forward progress here, particularly if we can switch the default theme (affecting all lists). It's pretty... dated currently. :-)
http://www.freecsstemplates.org/ is the site where this proposed theme came from. It may have some other themes worth investigating.
Thank you for working on this!
MZMcBride
We can debate the details, but the principle of giving the front end a lick of paint appeals.
What would make me very happy would be changes in the administrative interface, which currently reminds me of the old Honeywell 6000 series I first used.
Alex
2013/4/17 MZMcBride z@mzmcbride.com
Thehelpfulone wrote:
Last week I noticed a nice design for the list info page of the WLM-US mailing list that I tweaked for this mailing list: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/cabal-l
Unquestionably a major improvement over the default mailman theme. I'm not sure I love the black background, but it would be great to see any forward progress here, particularly if we can switch the default theme (affecting all lists). It's pretty... dated currently. :-)
http://www.freecsstemplates.org/ is the site where this proposed theme came from. It may have some other themes worth investigating.
Thank you for working on this!
MZMcBride
Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Still about this:
Thehelpfulone wrote:
Last week I noticed a nice design for the list info page of the WLM-US mailing list that I tweaked for this mailing list: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/cabal-l
Can you share the source? I'm happy to try it for wikitech-announce, tweaking it to fulfill the requests made (more accessible color schema and subscription fields visible without having to scroll down).
Thank you!
On 20 May 2013 18:04, Quim Gil qgil@wikimedia.org wrote:
Still about this:
Thehelpfulone wrote:
Last week I noticed a nice design for the list info page of the WLM-US mailing list that I tweaked for this mailing list: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/cabal-l
Can you share the source? I'm happy to try it for wikitech-announce, tweaking it to fulfill the requests made (more accessible color schema and subscription fields visible without having to scroll down).
Thank you!
Sure! I haven't managed to get around to making those tweaks myself, so I'd appreciate your (and anyone else's) help. The code's at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Thehelpfulone/Wikimedia-l and is generalised so that the only bits that manually need changing on a per-list basis are:
- "Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. That's our commitment." - The logo:
<img src="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/12/Wikimedia_logo_text_RGB.svg/200px-Wikimedia_logo_text_RGB.svg.png" class="aligncenter"><br />
- The "LEARN MORE" button and link:
<p><a href="https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Our_projects" class="link-style">Learn more</a></p>
The "Wikimedia Mailing List" can be changed by modifying "A terse phrase identifying this list." whilst the detail about the list can be modified at by adjusting "An introductory description - a few paragraphs - about the list. It will be included, as html, at the top of the listinfo page. Carriage returns will end a paragraph - see the details for more info. " in the list admin interface.
Feel free to move the code to a more appropriate place and/or tweak as you see fit. :-)
On 05/20/2013 10:37 AM, Thehelpfulone wrote:
> Last week I noticed a nice design for the list info page of the WLM-US > mailing list that I tweaked for this mailing list: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/cabal-l
Sure! I haven't managed to get around to making those tweaks myself, so I'd appreciate your (and anyone else's) help. The code's at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Thehelpfulone/Wikimedia-l
I simplified it drastically:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-announce
Feedback, please.
Source (ugly after several mutations, but seems to work) https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil/wikitech-announce
On 20 May 2013 23:41, Quim Gil qgil@wikimedia.org wrote:
I simplified it drastically:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikitech-**announcehttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-announce
Feedback, please.
It certainly looks like accessibility have been improved. :-)
However, it's missing the instructions on how to post a message to all list members (a bit obvious but probably still useful). Also that "View this Page in" language box needs to be in the default design as there are lists where English isn't the primary language used (the code for that is <MM-lang-form-start><MM-displang-box> <MM-list-langs><MM-form-end>).
Could you make that "Based on design by.." text just plain black without the shadow? Also perhaps a link to https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists would be useful somewhere. Changing "About Wikimedia" to link to https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/FAQ/en instead with Our projects as a separate link is also something to consider.
I'm glad you like it. I will wait for more feedback and once we feel that this is good I will clean the code (we are just using a small portion of all those styles).
On 05/20/2013 03:56 PM, Thehelpfulone wrote:
On 20 May 2013 23:41, Quim Gil <qgil@wikimedia.org mailto:qgil@wikimedia.org> wrote:
I simplified it drastically: https://lists.wikimedia.org/__mailman/listinfo/wikitech-__announce <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-announce>
All changes requested done:
https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=User%3AQgil%2Fwikitech-announce&...
About this:
Also that "View this Page in" language box needs to be in the default design as there are lists where English isn't the primary language used (the code for that is <MM-lang-form-start><MM-displang-box> <MM-list-langs><MM-form-end>).
Wikitech-announce only has "English (USA)" supported, therefore the language selector is pointless there.
I have added the following to the template:
<!-- Optional multilingual selector --> <!-- Mailman needs to be restarted to localize this custom template --> <!-- http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030605 --> <!-- <MM-lang-form-start><MM-displang-box> <MM-list-langs><MM-form-end> -->
Those wanting the language selector must uncomment the last line and ask an admin to restart Mailman, otherwise the non-English versions will still appear with the old default template. Restarting *might* be also needed for lists with only one language supported different than English.
(It would be nice if someone would test this to see if it really works. I'm just interpreting what the URL above says.)
Quim Gil wrote:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-announce
Feedback, please.
I would love to see this design or something similar become the default for Wikimedia's mailing lists. Compared to the current default,[1] I find the new design vastly more friendly and engaging.
MZMcBride
[1] https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-ambassadors
MZMcBride, 21/05/2013 04:22:
Quim Gil wrote:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-announce
Feedback, please.
I would love to see this design or something similar become the default for Wikimedia's mailing lists. Compared to the current default,[1] I find the new design vastly more friendly and engaging.
Can't be the default because it's English only, isn't it. A workaround could be to remove custom linguistic content (for instance make "About Wikimedia Foundation" just "Wikimedia" and point it to some translatable page on Meta), but I've no idea how localisation of all this works.
Nemo
On 05/20/2013 10:56 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote:
MZMcBride, 21/05/2013 04:22:
Quim Gil wrote:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-announce
Feedback, please.
I would love to see this design or something similar become the default for Wikimedia's mailing lists. Compared to the current default,[1] I find the new design vastly more friendly and engaging.
Can't be the default because it's English only, isn't it. A workaround could be to remove custom linguistic content (for instance make "About Wikimedia Foundation" just "Wikimedia" and point it to some translatable page on Meta), but I've no idea how localisation of all this works.
Well, this *recommended* template could substitute the current default which doesn't offer localized links either. An improvement is an improvement, and I think the improvement for users is huge.
Then it is up to the admins of each list to implement this template or not, to take it as is or with modifications e.g. links to Spanish content for your Spanish speaking list. It's just a piece of HTML to be pasted in a web form.
Just give me a day or so to implement feedback and clean the code, and then the template will be ready to be applied by list admins with a simple copy&paste, with optional customization.
Version 1.0 is out:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-announce
Source: https://github.com/quimgil/mailman-templates
Propagation is welcome. Thank you TheHelpfulOne for the original push and to the other feedback reporters!
On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 11:09 PM, Quim Gil qgil@wikimedia.org wrote:
On 05/20/2013 10:56 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote:
MZMcBride, 21/05/2013 04:22:
Quim Gil wrote:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-announce
Feedback, please.
I would love to see this design or something similar become the default for Wikimedia's mailing lists. Compared to the current default,[1] I find the new design vastly more friendly and engaging.
Can't be the default because it's English only, isn't it. A workaround could be to remove custom linguistic content (for instance make "About Wikimedia Foundation" just "Wikimedia" and point it to some translatable page on Meta), but I've no idea how localisation of all this works.
Well, this *recommended* template could substitute the current default which doesn't offer localized links either. An improvement is an improvement, and I think the improvement for users is huge.
Then it is up to the admins of each list to implement this template or not, to take it as is or with modifications e.g. links to Spanish content for your Spanish speaking list. It's just a piece of HTML to be pasted in a web form.
Just give me a day or so to implement feedback and clean the code, and then the template will be ready to be applied by list admins with a simple copy&paste, with optional customization.
-- Quim Gil Technical Contributor Coordinator @ Wikimedia Foundation http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil
I've gone ahead and updated https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/cabal-l to reflect this. You'll notice that some of the language has been simplified, and the password fields have been removed because this list has public archives and the subscriber list is only viewable by list admins, so there's no real need to know your password for this list. Unfortunately this still reverts to old design for other languages but I'm working on seeing if there's a way to fix that.
Isarra (and anyone else) can you see any issues with the newer design in terms of usability? As a reminder the source is at https://github.com/quimgil/mailman-templates.
On 22 May 2013 20:32, Quim Gil qgil@wikimedia.org wrote:
Version 1.0 is out:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-announce
Source: https://github.com/quimgil/mailman-templates
Propagation is welcome. Thank you TheHelpfulOne for the original push and to the other feedback reporters!
On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 11:09 PM, Quim Gil qgil@wikimedia.org wrote:
On 05/20/2013 10:56 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote:
MZMcBride, 21/05/2013 04:22:
Quim Gil wrote:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-announce
Feedback, please.
I would love to see this design or something similar become the default for Wikimedia's mailing lists. Compared to the current default,[1] I
find
the new design vastly more friendly and engaging.
Can't be the default because it's English only, isn't it. A workaround could be to remove custom linguistic content (for instance make "About Wikimedia Foundation" just "Wikimedia" and point it to some translatable page on Meta), but I've no idea how localisation of all this works.
Well, this *recommended* template could substitute the current default
which
doesn't offer localized links either. An improvement is an improvement,
and
I think the improvement for users is huge.
Then it is up to the admins of each list to implement this template or
not,
to take it as is or with modifications e.g. links to Spanish content for your Spanish speaking list. It's just a piece of HTML to be pasted in a
web
form.
Just give me a day or so to implement feedback and clean the code, and
then
the template will be ready to be applied by list admins with a simple copy&paste, with optional customization.
-- Quim Gil Technical Contributor Coordinator @ Wikimedia Foundation http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil
-- Quim Gil Technical Contributor Coordinator @ Wikimedia Foundation http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil
Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
On 05/31/2013 04:03 AM, Thehelpfulone wrote:
Unfortunately this still reverts to old design for other languages but I'm working on seeing if there's a way to fix that.
I believe it requires restarting Mailman, or at least this is how I read http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030605
The template is being used in more lists. New additions (I'm aware of):
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/qa https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-sf https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/libraries
On 31 May 2013 19:02, Quim Gil qgil@wikimedia.org wrote:
I believe it requires restarting Mailman, or at least this is how I read http://wiki.list.org/pages/**viewpage.action?pageId=4030605http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030605
The template is being used in more lists. New additions (I'm aware of):
https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/qahttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/qa https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-lhttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-sfhttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-sf https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/librarieshttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/libraries
Thanks Quim. I was looking at actually changing the default templates early last year but I remember that there was a concern by someone in ops that this could potentially cause problems when Mailman was updated in the future. I'll poke some people to see if this is still the case. There's a Mailman project set up on Labs that could be used to test out these changes to the default version of the template before we potentially roll it out on the production server.
For everyone else, please take a final look at https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/cabal-l as the new design for this list's info page. If there are no strong objections in the next few days, I'll switch this list to the new design at the end of the week.
On 25 Jun 2013, at 22:29, Thehelpfulone thehelpfulonewiki@gmail.com wrote:
On 31 May 2013 19:02, Quim Gil qgil@wikimedia.org wrote:
I believe it requires restarting Mailman, or at least this is how I read http://wiki.list.org/pages/**viewpage.action?pageId=4030605http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030605
The template is being used in more lists. New additions (I'm aware of):
https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/qahttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/qa https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-lhttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-sfhttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-sf https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/librarieshttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/libraries
Thanks Quim. I was looking at actually changing the default templates early last year but I remember that there was a concern by someone in ops that this could potentially cause problems when Mailman was updated in the future. I'll poke some people to see if this is still the case. There's a Mailman project set up on Labs that could be used to test out these changes to the default version of the template before we potentially roll it out on the production server.
As Mailman is open source software, and as this new design is a significant improvement to the current default design (well done to everyone that's contributed to it!), couldn't a sans-Wikimedia-logo version be contributed back to the Mailman project as a potential new standard design? Perhaps that might make future upgrades easier?
Thanks, Mike
I have two comments to do with screen size and unsubscribe options. Will expand on the discussion page for the code at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Thehelpfulone/Wikimedia-l
Regards, Richard.
On 26/06/13 07:29, Thehelpfulone wrote:
On 31 May 2013 19:02, Quim Gil qgil@wikimedia.org wrote:
I believe it requires restarting Mailman, or at least this is how I read http://wiki.list.org/pages/**viewpage.action?pageId=4030605http://wiki.list.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=4030605
The template is being used in more lists. New additions (I'm aware of):
https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/qahttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/qa https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-lhttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-sfhttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-sf https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/librarieshttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/libraries
Thanks Quim. I was looking at actually changing the default templates early last year but I remember that there was a concern by someone in ops that this could potentially cause problems when Mailman was updated in the future. I'll poke some people to see if this is still the case. There's a Mailman project set up on Labs that could be used to test out these changes to the default version of the template before we potentially roll it out on the production server.
For everyone else, please take a final look at https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/cabal-l as the new design for this list's info page. If there are no strong objections in the next few days, I'll switch this list to the new design at the end of the week.
I agree that a restyle is in order, but I'd advise against using this, at least in its current form, due to usability problems presented by the contrast. Solid black background, white foreground, and grey text all add up to eyestrain, and on lower-quality monitors it can make the grey text quite difficult to read as well. The logo, headers, and buttons are also strangely large, making the rest of the text seem even smaller by comparison, similarly not helping readability.
Something more in line with designs used on other Wikimedia things (current mediawiki skin, the blog layouts, gerrit's style, etc) would probably be best just so people feel more at home, if anyone would like to take the time, but that would probably be more difficult to do.
On 17/04/13 21:30, Thehelpfulone wrote:
Hi all,
Last week I noticed a nice design for the list info page of the WLM-US mailing list that I tweaked for this mailing list: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/cabal-l
What do you think? Mentally replace all instance of "cabal-l" with "wikimedia-l" and compare to https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l. Unfortunately Mailman only seems to allow this change to be made for the English version of the page, so if you try to view the page in another language, you'll still get the standard list info page.
Any objections to changing it?
Thehelpfulone, 17/04/2013 22:30:
Last week I noticed a nice design for the list info page of the WLM-US mailing list that I tweaked for this mailing list: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/cabal-l
I don't quite get the point of this style, is it about adding the Wikimedia vision in top left corner? Sounds unnecessary. I vote against everything that 1) is not consistent across all lists, 2) adds one "page down" key to get to the options.
Nemo
wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org