...considering recent discussions on Wikimania and here, this is maybe a useful opinion piece from https:// UNDARK.org/2021/08/12/wikipedia-has-a-language-problem-heres-how-to-fix-it/
It is packed with good insights and while I do not agree with all this, the final sentence feels kind of brilliant: ... to achieve its stated mission to “help everyone share in the sum of all knowledge,” they might first need to create the sum of all Wikipedias.
Best Z. Blace
And it is based on a fundamental misconception of the legally mandated role of the WMF. Everything based on this false premise, fails.
Cheers,
Peter
From: Željko Blaće [mailto:zblace@mi2.hr] Sent: 17 August 2021 06:18 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia issues in UNDARK.org #Opinion article to check...
...considering recent discussions on Wikimania and here, this is maybe a useful opinion piece from https:// UNDARK.org/2021/08/12/wikipedia-has-a-language-problem-heres-how-to-fix-it/
It is packed with good insights and while I do not agree with all this, the final sentence feels kind of brilliant: ... to achieve its stated mission to “help everyone share in the sum of all knowledge,” they might first need to create the sum of all Wikipedias.
Best Z. Blace
Virus-free. http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient www.avg.com
Hoi, I beg to differ. If anything the WMF needs to focus us more on the imbalance that exists between the fundamental bias toward English versus all other languages. For me the easiest picking is to share in the sum of the knowledge that is available to us. To get there simple goals like "a nine year old is able to find pictures in Commons" are fundamental. As it is, this is not even considered. Thanks, GerardM
On Tue, 17 Aug 2021 at 08:46, Peter Southwood peter.southwood@telkomsa.net wrote:
And it is based on a fundamental misconception of the legally mandated role of the WMF. Everything based on this false premise, fails.
Cheers,
Peter
*From:* Željko Blaće [mailto:zblace@mi2.hr] *Sent:* 17 August 2021 06:18 *To:* Wikimedia Mailing List *Subject:* [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia issues in UNDARK.org #Opinion article to check...
...considering recent discussions on Wikimania and here, this is maybe a useful opinion piece from https:// UNDARK.org/2021/08/12/wikipedia-has-a-language-problem-heres-how-to-fix-it/
It is packed with good insights and while I do not agree with all this, the final sentence feels kind of brilliant: ... to achieve its stated mission to “help everyone share in the sum of all knowledge,” they might first need to create the sum of all Wikipedias.
Best Z. Blace
Virus-free. www.avg.com http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient
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Gerard,
With whom do you beg to differ?
P
From: Gerard Meijssen [mailto:gerard.meijssen@gmail.com] Sent: 17 August 2021 09:32 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Wikipedia issues in UNDARK.org #Opinion article to check...
Hoi,
I beg to differ. If anything the WMF needs to focus us more on the imbalance that exists between the fundamental bias toward English versus all other languages. For me the easiest picking is to share in the sum of the knowledge that is available to us. To get there simple goals like "a nine year old is able to find pictures in Commons" are fundamental. As it is, this is not even considered.
Thanks,
GerardM
On Tue, 17 Aug 2021 at 08:46, Peter Southwood peter.southwood@telkomsa.net wrote:
And it is based on a fundamental misconception of the legally mandated role of the WMF. Everything based on this false premise, fails.
Cheers,
Peter
From: Željko Blaće [mailto:zblace@mi2.hr] Sent: 17 August 2021 06:18 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia issues in UNDARK.org #Opinion article to check...
...considering recent discussions on Wikimania and here, this is maybe a useful opinion piece from https:// UNDARK.org/2021/08/12/wikipedia-has-a-language-problem-heres-how-to-fix-it/
It is packed with good insights and while I do not agree with all this, the final sentence feels kind of brilliant: ... to achieve its stated mission to “help everyone share in the sum of all knowledge,” they might first need to create the sum of all Wikipedias.
Best Z. Blace
Virus-free. http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient www.avg.com
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Hoi, Given that I reply to your statement.. it should be obvious. Thanks, GerardM
On Wed, 18 Aug 2021 at 13:12, Peter Southwood peter.southwood@telkomsa.net wrote:
Gerard,
With whom do you beg to differ?
P
*From:* Gerard Meijssen [mailto:gerard.meijssen@gmail.com] *Sent:* 17 August 2021 09:32 *To:* Wikimedia Mailing List *Subject:* [Wikimedia-l] Re: Wikipedia issues in UNDARK.org #Opinion article to check...
Hoi,
I beg to differ. If anything the WMF needs to focus us more on the imbalance that exists between the fundamental bias toward English versus all other languages. For me the easiest picking is to share in the sum of the knowledge that is available to us. To get there simple goals like "a nine year old is able to find pictures in Commons" are fundamental. As it is, this is not even considered.
Thanks,
GerardMOn Tue, 17 Aug 2021 at 08:46, Peter Southwood < peter.southwood@telkomsa.net> wrote:
And it is based on a fundamental misconception of the legally mandated role of the WMF. Everything based on this false premise, fails.
Cheers,
Peter
*From:* Željko Blaće [mailto:zblace@mi2.hr] *Sent:* 17 August 2021 06:18 *To:* Wikimedia Mailing List *Subject:* [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia issues in UNDARK.org #Opinion article to check...
...considering recent discussions on Wikimania and here, this is maybe a useful opinion piece from https:// UNDARK.org/2021/08/12/wikipedia-has-a-language-problem-heres-how-to-fix-it/
It is packed with good insights and while I do not agree with all this, the final sentence feels kind of brilliant: ... to achieve its stated mission to “help everyone share in the sum of all knowledge,” they might first need to create the sum of all Wikipedias.
Best Z. Blace
Virus-free. www.avg.com http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient
Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
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It's worth noting that Yumiko's article (now also on fastcompany.com) quotes the WMF as saying it "does *not often* get involved in issues related to the creation and maintenance of content on the site."
That "not often" actually indicates a little publicised but significant departure from past practice when the WMF would disclaim all responsibility for content -- a shift also borne out by the recently advertised "disinformation" hires who are specifically tasked with identifying misleading content, primarily, it seems, in "Hindi, Arabic, Farsi, Russian or Spanish".[1]
As for machine translations, DeepL is in my experience far superior to Google Translate (though the latter does cover more languages at present).
Andreas
[1] https://boards.greenhouse.io/wikimedia/jobs/3383195
On Tuesday, August 17, 2021, Peter Southwood peter.southwood@telkomsa.net wrote:
And it is based on a fundamental misconception of the legally mandated role of the WMF. Everything based on this false premise, fails.
Cheers,
Peter
*From:* Željko Blaće [mailto:zblace@mi2.hr] *Sent:* 17 August 2021 06:18 *To:* Wikimedia Mailing List *Subject:* [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia issues in UNDARK.org #Opinion article to check...
...considering recent discussions on Wikimania and here, this is maybe a useful opinion piece from https:// UNDARK.org/2021/08/ 12/wikipedia-has-a-language-problem-heres-how-to-fix-it/
It is packed with good insights and while I do not agree with all this, the final sentence feels kind of brilliant: ... to achieve its stated mission to “help everyone share in the sum of all knowledge,” they might first need to create the sum of all Wikipedias.
Best Z. Blace
Virus-free. www.avg.com http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient
We do need, among other things, the sum of all Wikipedias. :) A shared commons, wikidata, global templates, abstract WP! are all ways to get there. The suggestions in this article are not...
In particular, as long as reliability and verifiability and research norms are siloed by language -- with the barrier of translation making it much more difficult to parse and evaluate claims made in a mutually incomprehensible language -- articles about a topic T in language X will depend on reliable secondary sources in that language about T.
But we can move towards making this more possible, with - better on-wiki / inline translation options [G! Translate is a step in that direction, but only one] - better options for multilingual review and consensus [some languages and Meta have tried some versions of this in the past, so far w/o great success] - better translation-linkage tracking between articles: indicating which parts of article in one language are synched/branched from parts of the same article in another language. [there is research + practical literature on approaches to this in other media] - (many more...)
On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 12:18 AM Željko Blaće zblace@mi2.hr wrote:
...considering recent discussions on Wikimania and here, this is maybe a useful opinion piece from https:// UNDARK.org/2021/08/12/wikipedia-has-a-language-problem-heres-how-to-fix-it/
It is packed with good insights and while I do not agree with all this, the final sentence feels kind of brilliant: ... to achieve its stated mission to “help everyone share in the sum of all knowledge,” they might first need to create the sum of all Wikipedias.
Best Z. Blace
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