TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:
I am writing to you as a concerned volunteer from Pakistan regarding a critical issue that has been persisting for several years now. Despite multiple attempts to communicate this matter to members of the WMF's communication team, there has been a disappointing lack of response or acknowledgment.
For the past several years, Commons has been blocked in Pakistan. While Wikipedia was briefly blocked last year, the swift response from both Pakistani and international news media led to its unblocking. However, the blockade of Commons, being a less prominent site in comparison, has gone largely unnoticed.
Furthermore, several journalists I have spoken to have also expressed frustration over their attempts to reach out to WMF staff regarding this issue, only to receive no response.
I urge the WMF to prioritize this matter and take immediate action to address the ongoing blockage of Commons in Pakistan.
Thank you for your attention to this urgent matter. -- Saqib Qayyum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Saqib
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:29 PM Saqib Qayyum saqibqayyumc@gmail.com wrote:
TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:
I am writing to you as a concerned volunteer from Pakistan regarding a critical issue that has been persisting for several years now. Despite multiple attempts to communicate this matter to members of the WMF's communication team, there has been a disappointing lack of response or acknowledgment.
For the past several years, Commons has been blocked in Pakistan. While Wikipedia was briefly blocked last year, the swift response from both Pakistani and international news media led to its unblocking. However, the blockade of Commons, being a less prominent site in comparison, has gone largely unnoticed.
Furthermore, several journalists I have spoken to have also expressed frustration over their attempts to reach out to WMF staff regarding this issue, only to receive no response.
I urge the WMF to prioritize this matter and take immediate action to address the ongoing blockage of Commons in Pakistan.
Thank you for your attention to this urgent matter.
Saqib Qayyum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Saqib _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Can you not just use a VPN?
James
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:29 PM Saqib Qayyum saqibqayyumc@gmail.com wrote:
TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:
I am writing to you as a concerned volunteer from Pakistan regarding a critical issue that has been persisting for several years now. Despite multiple attempts to communicate this matter to members of the WMF's communication team, there has been a disappointing lack of response or acknowledgment.
For the past several years, Commons has been blocked in Pakistan. While Wikipedia was briefly blocked last year, the swift response from both Pakistani and international news media led to its unblocking. However, the blockade of Commons, being a less prominent site in comparison, has gone largely unnoticed.
Furthermore, several journalists I have spoken to have also expressed frustration over their attempts to reach out to WMF staff regarding this issue, only to receive no response.
I urge the WMF to prioritize this matter and take immediate action to address the ongoing blockage of Commons in Pakistan.
Thank you for your attention to this urgent matter.
Saqib Qayyum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Saqib _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
While a good stop-gap measure, VPNs can be expensive enough that it’s not really a permanent solution. The ultimate solution is to get Commons unblocked, if that’s possible. Of course, getting it unblocked might prove impossible.
From, I dream of horses She/her
On Mar 19, 2024, at 9:33 AM, James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com wrote:
Can you not just use a VPN?
James
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:29 PM Saqib Qayyum <saqibqayyumc@gmail.com mailto:saqibqayyumc@gmail.com> wrote:
TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:
I am writing to you as a concerned volunteer from Pakistan regarding a critical issue that has been persisting for several years now. Despite multiple attempts to communicate this matter to members of the WMF's communication team, there has been a disappointing lack of response or acknowledgment.
For the past several years, Commons has been blocked in Pakistan. While Wikipedia was briefly blocked last year, the swift response from both Pakistani and international news media led to its unblocking. However, the blockade of Commons, being a less prominent site in comparison, has gone largely unnoticed.
Furthermore, several journalists I have spoken to have also expressed frustration over their attempts to reach out to WMF staff regarding this issue, only to receive no response.
I urge the WMF to prioritize this matter and take immediate action to address the ongoing blockage of Commons in Pakistan.
Thank you for your attention to this urgent matter.
Saqib Qayyum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Saqib _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
-- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Well Twitter has actually been blocked for the past 01 month, right after the general election. There's been a lot of uproar about it, but it's uncertain when they will unblock it. Meanwhile, at least WMF should issue a statement condemning the blockage of Commons. -- Saqib Qayyum
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 10:16 PM Neurodivergent Netizen < idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com> wrote:
While a good stop-gap measure, VPNs can be expensive enough that it’s not really a permanent solution. The ultimate solution is to get Commons unblocked, if that’s possible. Of course, getting it unblocked might prove impossible.
From, I dream of horses She/her
On Mar 19, 2024, at 9:33 AM, James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com wrote:
Can you not just use a VPN?
James
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:29 PM Saqib Qayyum saqibqayyumc@gmail.com wrote:
TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:
I am writing to you as a concerned volunteer from Pakistan regarding a critical issue that has been persisting for several years now. Despite multiple attempts to communicate this matter to members of the WMF's communication team, there has been a disappointing lack of response or acknowledgment.
For the past several years, Commons has been blocked in Pakistan. While Wikipedia was briefly blocked last year, the swift response from both Pakistani and international news media led to its unblocking. However, the blockade of Commons, being a less prominent site in comparison, has gone largely unnoticed.
Furthermore, several journalists I have spoken to have also expressed frustration over their attempts to reach out to WMF staff regarding this issue, only to receive no response.
I urge the WMF to prioritize this matter and take immediate action to address the ongoing blockage of Commons in Pakistan.
Thank you for your attention to this urgent matter.
Saqib Qayyum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Saqib _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
-- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
By the way, I don't understand why Pakistan blocked Commons. My guess is it was blocked by mistake or unintentionally because I don't think there's anything on Commons that is critical or bothersome to the government. At least I don't know of any such content. So if WMF raises its voice, I'm sure it can be unblocked. Why not WMF try at least instead of remaining silent? When WP was blocked last year, it was unblocked after voices were raised. -- Saqib Qayyum
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 10:17 PM Saqib Qayyum saqibqayyumc@gmail.com wrote:
Well Twitter has actually been blocked for the past 01 month, right after the general election. There's been a lot of uproar about it, but it's uncertain when they will unblock it. Meanwhile, at least WMF should issue a statement condemning the blockage of Commons. -- Saqib Qayyum
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 10:16 PM Neurodivergent Netizen < idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com> wrote:
While a good stop-gap measure, VPNs can be expensive enough that it’s not really a permanent solution. The ultimate solution is to get Commons unblocked, if that’s possible. Of course, getting it unblocked might prove impossible.
From, I dream of horses She/her
On Mar 19, 2024, at 9:33 AM, James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com wrote:
Can you not just use a VPN?
James
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:29 PM Saqib Qayyum saqibqayyumc@gmail.com wrote:
TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:
I am writing to you as a concerned volunteer from Pakistan regarding a critical issue that has been persisting for several years now. Despite multiple attempts to communicate this matter to members of the WMF's communication team, there has been a disappointing lack of response or acknowledgment.
For the past several years, Commons has been blocked in Pakistan. While Wikipedia was briefly blocked last year, the swift response from both Pakistani and international news media led to its unblocking. However, the blockade of Commons, being a less prominent site in comparison, has gone largely unnoticed.
Furthermore, several journalists I have spoken to have also expressed frustration over their attempts to reach out to WMF staff regarding this issue, only to receive no response.
I urge the WMF to prioritize this matter and take immediate action to address the ongoing blockage of Commons in Pakistan.
Thank you for your attention to this urgent matter.
Saqib Qayyum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Saqib _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
-- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Hello Mr James
Certainly, using a VPN is a workaround, but it's worth noting that obtaining an IP block exemption is still necessary to edit Commons, and this is not always feasible for all users. Many may not even be aware of its existence. For instance, I couldn't edit Commons since October 2020 until I discovered the option for IP ban exemption. .
And because of this, contributions to Commons from Pakistan have significantly dwindled. For instance, I recall organizing Wiki Loves Monuments Pakistan from 2014, where we used to receive thousands of images annually. However, in recent years, the number of uploads has drastically declined, with only a maximum of 100 photos being uploaded each year. This trend underscores the challenges Pakistani users face in accessing and contributing to the site. -- Saqib Qayyum
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:55 PM James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com wrote:
Can you not just use a VPN?
James
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:29 PM Saqib Qayyum saqibqayyumc@gmail.com wrote:
TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:
I am writing to you as a concerned volunteer from Pakistan regarding a critical issue that has been persisting for several years now. Despite multiple attempts to communicate this matter to members of the WMF's communication team, there has been a disappointing lack of response or acknowledgment.
For the past several years, Commons has been blocked in Pakistan. While Wikipedia was briefly blocked last year, the swift response from both Pakistani and international news media led to its unblocking. However, the blockade of Commons, being a less prominent site in comparison, has gone largely unnoticed.
Furthermore, several journalists I have spoken to have also expressed frustration over their attempts to reach out to WMF staff regarding this issue, only to receive no response.
I urge the WMF to prioritize this matter and take immediate action to address the ongoing blockage of Commons in Pakistan.
Thank you for your attention to this urgent matter.
Saqib Qayyum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Saqib _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
-- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
VPNs and IP block exemption may or may not be useful for contributing to Commons, but contribution is not the only thing at issue here.
The purpose of Commons is to act as a media repository for (a) all Wikimedia projects and (b) the world as a whole, without cost or licensing issues. Every day, hundreds if not thousands of Commons files are used in news media, academia, and other places outside of Wikimedia projects. Commons files appear in the majority of Wikimedia articles. Therefore, free and open access to Wikimedia Commons as part of the knowledge available to all of humanity is a major objective. It's also where we, as a community, store useful documents and files associated with significant information about our movement, our projects, and many other things that may affect all projects, so access to them is important, too.
I have no doubt that the Pakistani block is motivated by matters that have nothing to do with free knowledge or the Wikimedia mission. If I was a betting woman, I'd say that this may be an attempt to avoid a public uproar about blocking Wikipedia itself, but with Commons being so much less visible, it's easier to block that project and wind up with essentially the same effect.
I am aware that there are multiple language Wikipedias edited by our Pakistani editors. One possible interim solution might be ensuring that images can be uploaded directly to those Wikipedia projects, and copies of Commons images be hosted on those projects. Some Wikipedias retained their own project-specific media storage, and many of their policies, procedures and guidelines could be used as a framework for the Pakistani-languages wikis to develop their own processes. As English is one of Pakistan's official languages, it would be worthwhile to have a discussion on English Wikipedia to work on this, too. Bots located outside of Pakistan could be used to both bring images to those Wikipedias and to copy their images over to Commons for global use.
Of course, the longer-term goal is to have the block lifted entirely. What I am suggesting is a mitigation strategy only.
Risker/Anne
On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 at 13:17, Saqib Qayyum saqibqayyumc@gmail.com wrote:
Hello Mr James
Certainly, using a VPN is a workaround, but it's worth noting that obtaining an IP block exemption is still necessary to edit Commons, and this is not always feasible for all users. Many may not even be aware of its existence. For instance, I couldn't edit Commons since October 2020 until I discovered the option for IP ban exemption. .
And because of this, contributions to Commons from Pakistan have significantly dwindled. For instance, I recall organizing Wiki Loves Monuments Pakistan from 2014, where we used to receive thousands of images annually. However, in recent years, the number of uploads has drastically declined, with only a maximum of 100 photos being uploaded each year. This trend underscores the challenges Pakistani users face in accessing and contributing to the site. -- Saqib Qayyum
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:55 PM James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com wrote:
Can you not just use a VPN?
James
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:29 PM Saqib Qayyum saqibqayyumc@gmail.com wrote:
TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:
I am writing to you as a concerned volunteer from Pakistan regarding a critical issue that has been persisting for several years now. Despite multiple attempts to communicate this matter to members of the WMF's communication team, there has been a disappointing lack of response or acknowledgment.
For the past several years, Commons has been blocked in Pakistan. While Wikipedia was briefly blocked last year, the swift response from both Pakistani and international news media led to its unblocking. However, the blockade of Commons, being a less prominent site in comparison, has gone largely unnoticed.
Furthermore, several journalists I have spoken to have also expressed frustration over their attempts to reach out to WMF staff regarding this issue, only to receive no response.
I urge the WMF to prioritize this matter and take immediate action to address the ongoing blockage of Commons in Pakistan.
Thank you for your attention to this urgent matter.
Saqib Qayyum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Saqib _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
-- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Just to clarify, at least in my case, the embedded Commons files were visible on Wikimedia projects (including the English Wikipedia) when I was in Pakistan. I just could not open them on Commons or upload any files.
Best Yaroslav
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 7:13 PM Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
VPNs and IP block exemption may or may not be useful for contributing to Commons, but contribution is not the only thing at issue here.
The purpose of Commons is to act as a media repository for (a) all Wikimedia projects and (b) the world as a whole, without cost or licensing issues. Every day, hundreds if not thousands of Commons files are used in news media, academia, and other places outside of Wikimedia projects. Commons files appear in the majority of Wikimedia articles. Therefore, free and open access to Wikimedia Commons as part of the knowledge available to all of humanity is a major objective. It's also where we, as a community, store useful documents and files associated with significant information about our movement, our projects, and many other things that may affect all projects, so access to them is important, too.
I have no doubt that the Pakistani block is motivated by matters that have nothing to do with free knowledge or the Wikimedia mission. If I was a betting woman, I'd say that this may be an attempt to avoid a public uproar about blocking Wikipedia itself, but with Commons being so much less visible, it's easier to block that project and wind up with essentially the same effect.
I am aware that there are multiple language Wikipedias edited by our Pakistani editors. One possible interim solution might be ensuring that images can be uploaded directly to those Wikipedia projects, and copies of Commons images be hosted on those projects. Some Wikipedias retained their own project-specific media storage, and many of their policies, procedures and guidelines could be used as a framework for the Pakistani-languages wikis to develop their own processes. As English is one of Pakistan's official languages, it would be worthwhile to have a discussion on English Wikipedia to work on this, too. Bots located outside of Pakistan could be used to both bring images to those Wikipedias and to copy their images over to Commons for global use.
Of course, the longer-term goal is to have the block lifted entirely. What I am suggesting is a mitigation strategy only.
Risker/Anne
On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 at 13:17, Saqib Qayyum saqibqayyumc@gmail.com wrote:
Hello Mr James
Certainly, using a VPN is a workaround, but it's worth noting that obtaining an IP block exemption is still necessary to edit Commons, and this is not always feasible for all users. Many may not even be aware of its existence. For instance, I couldn't edit Commons since October 2020 until I discovered the option for IP ban exemption. .
And because of this, contributions to Commons from Pakistan have significantly dwindled. For instance, I recall organizing Wiki Loves Monuments Pakistan from 2014, where we used to receive thousands of images annually. However, in recent years, the number of uploads has drastically declined, with only a maximum of 100 photos being uploaded each year. This trend underscores the challenges Pakistani users face in accessing and contributing to the site. -- Saqib Qayyum
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:55 PM James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com wrote:
Can you not just use a VPN?
James
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:29 PM Saqib Qayyum saqibqayyumc@gmail.com wrote:
TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:
I am writing to you as a concerned volunteer from Pakistan regarding a critical issue that has been persisting for several years now. Despite multiple attempts to communicate this matter to members of the WMF's communication team, there has been a disappointing lack of response or acknowledgment.
For the past several years, Commons has been blocked in Pakistan. While Wikipedia was briefly blocked last year, the swift response from both Pakistani and international news media led to its unblocking. However, the blockade of Commons, being a less prominent site in comparison, has gone largely unnoticed.
Furthermore, several journalists I have spoken to have also expressed frustration over their attempts to reach out to WMF staff regarding this issue, only to receive no response.
I urge the WMF to prioritize this matter and take immediate action to address the ongoing blockage of Commons in Pakistan.
Thank you for your attention to this urgent matter.
Saqib Qayyum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Saqib _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
-- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
- Blocking a free knowledge repository = attack on freedom of speech and free knowledge
- Suggesting VPN = suggesting to use the backdoor instead of fighting back for free knowledge and freedom of speech - Foundation is not interested in commons, previous archives informs that mystery. - One potential reason WMF not interested in Pakistan is, the country doesn't have potential donors, or asking for the unblock might not help to attract the global attention (unlike other big countries!) as global attention is a superset of attention from donors. Money is the only known god for the foundation. - WMF communications does anything but communication, the name is a shame. If it needs to bring a matter to public mailing lists to get heard, then everything will collapse. Imagine a wikimedia movement, where everyone is forwarding their previous mails to the foundation, to the public mailing lists, since foundation didn't care ... ... (If it works, it works, and all should do that)
Regards, WikiInsaf Insaf jarur milegi
On Wednesday, March 20th, 2024 at 12:13 AM, Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
VPNs and IP block exemption may or may not be useful for contributing to Commons, but contribution is not the only thing at issue here.
The purpose of Commons is to act as a media repository for (a) all Wikimedia projects and (b) the world as a whole, without cost or licensing issues. Every day, hundreds if not thousands of Commons files are used in news media, academia, and other places outside of Wikimedia projects. Commons files appear in the majority of Wikimedia articles. Therefore, free and open access to Wikimedia Commons as part of the knowledge available to all of humanity is a major objective. It's also where we, as a community, store useful documents and files associated with significant information about our movement, our projects, and many other things that may affect all projects, so access to them is important, too.
I have no doubt that the Pakistani block is motivated by matters that have nothing to do with free knowledge or the Wikimedia mission. If I was a betting woman, I'd say that this may be an attempt to avoid a public uproar about blocking Wikipedia itself, but with Commons being so much less visible, it's easier to block that project and wind up with essentially the same effect.
I am aware that there are multiple language Wikipedias edited by our Pakistani editors. One possible interim solution might be ensuring that images can be uploaded directly to those Wikipedia projects, and copies of Commons images be hosted on those projects. Some Wikipedias retained their own project-specific media storage, and many of their policies, procedures and guidelines could be used as a framework for the Pakistani-languages wikis to develop their own processes. As English is one of Pakistan's official languages, it would be worthwhile to have a discussion on English Wikipedia to work on this, too. Bots located outside of Pakistan could be used to both bring images to those Wikipedias and to copy their images over to Commons for global use.
Of course, the longer-term goal is to have the block lifted entirely. What I am suggesting is a mitigation strategy only.
Risker/Anne
On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 at 13:17, Saqib Qayyum saqibqayyumc@gmail.com wrote:
Hello Mr James
Certainly, using a VPN is a workaround, but it's worth noting that obtaining an IP block exemption is still necessary to edit Commons, and this is not always feasible for all users. Many may not even be aware of its existence. For instance, I couldn't edit Commons since October 2020 until I discovered the option for IP ban exemption. .
And because of this, contributions to Commons from Pakistan have significantly dwindled. For instance, I recall organizing Wiki Loves Monuments Pakistan from 2014, where we used to receive thousands of images annually. However, in recent years, the number of uploads has drastically declined, with only a maximum of 100 photos being uploaded each year. This trend underscores the challenges Pakistani users face in accessing and contributing to the site.
Saqib Qayyum
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:55 PM James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com wrote:
Can you not just use a VPN?
James
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:29 PM Saqib Qayyum saqibqayyumc@gmail.com wrote:
TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:
I am writing to you as a concerned volunteer from Pakistan regarding a critical issue that has been persisting for several years now. Despite multiple attempts to communicate this matter to members of the WMF's communication team, there has been a disappointing lack of response or acknowledgment.
For the past several years, Commons has been blocked in Pakistan. While Wikipedia was briefly blocked last year, the swift response from both Pakistani and international news media led to its unblocking. However, the blockade of Commons, being a less prominent site in comparison, has gone largely unnoticed.
Furthermore, several journalists I have spoken to have also expressed frustration over their attempts to reach out to WMF staff regarding this issue, only to receive no response.
I urge the WMF to prioritize this matter and take immediate action to address the ongoing blockage of Commons in Pakistan.
Thank you for your attention to this urgent matter.
Saqib Qayyum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Saqib
Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
--
James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
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It's truly disheartening to see the WMF's lack of action, especially when Yaroslav himself reported the issue to the WMF, and they confirmed the blockage of Commons in Pakistan.
This neglect is unacceptable, considering Pakistan's significant population of 170 million internet users, making it the fifth-largest in the world, surpassing even Russia. How can the WMF overlook such a crucial issue? -- Saqib Qayyum
On Wed, Mar 20, 2024 at 1:01 AM neurokitty via Wikimedia-l < wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
- Blocking a free knowledge repository = attack on freedom of speech
and free knowledge
- Suggesting VPN = suggesting to use the backdoor instead of fighting
back for free knowledge and freedom of speech
- Foundation is not interested in commons, previous archives informs
that mystery.
- One potential reason WMF not interested in Pakistan is, the country
doesn't have potential donors, or asking for the unblock might not help to attract the global attention (unlike other big countries!) as global attention is a superset of attention from donors. Money is the only known god for the foundation.
- WMF communications does anything but communication, the name is a
shame. If it needs to bring a matter to public mailing lists to get heard, then everything will collapse. Imagine a wikimedia movement, where everyone is forwarding their previous mails to the foundation, to the public mailing lists, since foundation didn't care ... ... (If it works, it works, and all should do that)
Regards, *WikiInsaf* Insaf jarur milegi
On Wednesday, March 20th, 2024 at 12:13 AM, Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
VPNs and IP block exemption may or may not be useful for contributing to Commons, but contribution is not the only thing at issue here.
The purpose of Commons is to act as a media repository for (a) all Wikimedia projects and (b) the world as a whole, without cost or licensing issues. Every day, hundreds if not thousands of Commons files are used in news media, academia, and other places outside of Wikimedia projects. Commons files appear in the majority of Wikimedia articles. Therefore, free and open access to Wikimedia Commons as part of the knowledge available to all of humanity is a major objective. It's also where we, as a community, store useful documents and files associated with significant information about our movement, our projects, and many other things that may affect all projects, so access to them is important, too.
I have no doubt that the Pakistani block is motivated by matters that have nothing to do with free knowledge or the Wikimedia mission. If I was a betting woman, I'd say that this may be an attempt to avoid a public uproar about blocking Wikipedia itself, but with Commons being so much less visible, it's easier to block that project and wind up with essentially the same effect.
I am aware that there are multiple language Wikipedias edited by our Pakistani editors. One possible interim solution might be ensuring that images can be uploaded directly to those Wikipedia projects, and copies of Commons images be hosted on those projects. Some Wikipedias retained their own project-specific media storage, and many of their policies, procedures and guidelines could be used as a framework for the Pakistani-languages wikis to develop their own processes. As English is one of Pakistan's official languages, it would be worthwhile to have a discussion on English Wikipedia to work on this, too. Bots located outside of Pakistan could be used to both bring images to those Wikipedias and to copy their images over to Commons for global use.
Of course, the longer-term goal is to have the block lifted entirely. What I am suggesting is a mitigation strategy only.
Risker/Anne
On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 at 13:17, Saqib Qayyum saqibqayyumc@gmail.com wrote:
Hello Mr James
Certainly, using a VPN is a workaround, but it's worth noting that obtaining an IP block exemption is still necessary to edit Commons, and this is not always feasible for all users. Many may not even be aware of its existence. For instance, I couldn't edit Commons since October 2020 until I discovered the option for IP ban exemption. .
And because of this, contributions to Commons from Pakistan have significantly dwindled. For instance, I recall organizing Wiki Loves Monuments Pakistan from 2014, where we used to receive thousands of images annually. However, in recent years, the number of uploads has drastically declined, with only a maximum of 100 photos being uploaded each year. This trend underscores the challenges Pakistani users face in accessing and contributing to the site. -- Saqib Qayyum
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:55 PM James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com wrote:
Can you not just use a VPN?
James
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:29 PM Saqib Qayyum saqibqayyumc@gmail.com wrote:
TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:
I am writing to you as a concerned volunteer from Pakistan regarding a critical issue that has been persisting for several years now. Despite multiple attempts to communicate this matter to members of the WMF's communication team, there has been a disappointing lack of response or acknowledgment.
For the past several years, Commons has been blocked in Pakistan. While Wikipedia was briefly blocked last year, the swift response from both Pakistani and international news media led to its unblocking. However, the blockade of Commons, being a less prominent site in comparison, has gone largely unnoticed.
Furthermore, several journalists I have spoken to have also expressed frustration over their attempts to reach out to WMF staff regarding this issue, only to receive no response.
I urge the WMF to prioritize this matter and take immediate action to address the ongoing blockage of Commons in Pakistan.
Thank you for your attention to this urgent matter.
Saqib Qayyum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Saqib _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
-- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
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Why is there so much discussion about using VPNs as a solution? A few years ago, I acquired a VPN as part of an antivirus package. However, when I tried to use it for other services, I encountered an unexpected issue switching on wiki platforms: despite being there as a registered user, I found myself unable to edit them.
So how can VPN be a solution? A.
Il martedì 19 marzo 2024 alle ore 18:17:52 CET, Saqib Qayyum saqibqayyumc@gmail.com ha scritto:
Hello Mr James Certainly, using a VPN is a workaround, but it's worth noting that obtaining an IP block exemption is still necessary to edit Commons, and this is not always feasible for all users. Many may not even be aware of its existence. For instance, I couldn't edit Commons since October 2020 until I discovered the option for IP ban exemption. . And because of this, contributions to Commons from Pakistan have significantly dwindled. For instance, I recall organizing Wiki Loves Monuments Pakistan from 2014, where we used to receive thousands of images annually. However, in recent years, the number of uploads has drastically declined, with only a maximum of 100 photos being uploaded each year. This trend underscores the challenges Pakistani users face in accessing and contributing to the site. --Saqib Qayyum
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:55 PM James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com wrote:
Can you not just use a VPN? James On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:29 PM Saqib Qayyum saqibqayyumc@gmail.com wrote:
TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:
I am writing to you as a concerned volunteer from Pakistan regarding a critical issue that has been persisting for several years now. Despite multiple attempts to communicate this matter to members of the WMF's communication team, there has been a disappointing lack of response or acknowledgment.
For the past several years, Commons has been blocked in Pakistan. While Wikipedia was briefly blocked last year, the swift response from both Pakistani and international news media led to its unblocking. However, the blockade of Commons, being a less prominent site in comparison, has gone largely unnoticed.
Furthermore, several journalists I have spoken to have also expressed frustration over their attempts to reach out to WMF staff regarding this issue, only to receive no response.
I urge the WMF to prioritize this matter and take immediate action to address the ongoing blockage of Commons in Pakistan. Thank you for your attention to this urgent matter. -- Saqib Qayyumhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Saqib _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
A few years ago, I acquired a VPN as part of an antivirus package. However, when I tried to use it for other services, I encountered an unexpected issue switching on wiki platforms: despite being there as a registered user, I found myself unable to edit them.
So how can VPN be a solution?
Right, you would’ve had to use IP block exemption, which would require some level of trust from the community that you aren’t a vandal or other blocked user trying to circumspect said block.
From, I dream of horses She/her
On Mar 19, 2024, at 11:23 AM, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org wrote:
Why is there so much discussion about using VPNs as a solution? A few years ago, I acquired a VPN as part of an antivirus package. However, when I tried to use it for other services, I encountered an unexpected issue switching on wiki platforms: despite being there as a registered user, I found myself unable to edit them.
So how can VPN be a solution?
A.
Il martedì 19 marzo 2024 alle ore 18:17:52 CET, Saqib Qayyum saqibqayyumc@gmail.com ha scritto:
Hello Mr James
Certainly, using a VPN is a workaround, but it's worth noting that obtaining an IP block exemption is still necessary to edit Commons, and this is not always feasible for all users. Many may not even be aware of its existence. For instance, I couldn't edit Commons since October 2020 until I discovered the option for IP ban exemption. .
And because of this, contributions to Commons from Pakistan have significantly dwindled. For instance, I recall organizing Wiki Loves Monuments Pakistan from 2014, where we used to receive thousands of images annually. However, in recent years, the number of uploads has drastically declined, with only a maximum of 100 photos being uploaded each year. This trend underscores the challenges Pakistani users face in accessing and contributing to the site.
Saqib Qayyum
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:55 PM James Heilman <jmh649@gmail.com mailto:jmh649@gmail.com> wrote: Can you not just use a VPN?
James
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:29 PM Saqib Qayyum <saqibqayyumc@gmail.com mailto:saqibqayyumc@gmail.com> wrote: TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:
I am writing to you as a concerned volunteer from Pakistan regarding a critical issue that has been persisting for several years now. Despite multiple attempts to communicate this matter to members of the WMF's communication team, there has been a disappointing lack of response or acknowledgment.
For the past several years, Commons has been blocked in Pakistan. While Wikipedia was briefly blocked last year, the swift response from both Pakistani and international news media led to its unblocking. However, the blockade of Commons, being a less prominent site in comparison, has gone largely unnoticed.
Furthermore, several journalists I have spoken to have also expressed frustration over their attempts to reach out to WMF staff regarding this issue, only to receive no response.
I urge the WMF to prioritize this matter and take immediate action to address the ongoing blockage of Commons in Pakistan.
Thank you for your attention to this urgent matter.
Saqib Qayyum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Saqib _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
-- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/...
To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
That doesn't seem logical or fair. If a user is registered and not already blocked, the IPs they are using shouldn't matter at all. Personally, I've never used a VPN before I got it this way (even living in the PRC), but I understand that some people might need to do so for privacy reasons. So, this restriction should be removed. Registered users should have the freedom to access the platform how they want. If there's an issue with a specific user, it's more appropriate to block their username rather than restricting their access when logged in based on IP addresses. Adding more bureaucracy isn't the solution if there isn't a problem to begin with. In any case, nothing will probably change. But please don't say that VPN is a solution. People have already enough problems that adding more and more passages.
Il martedì 19 marzo 2024 alle ore 19:51:42 CET, Neurodivergent Netizen idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com ha scritto:
A few years ago, I acquired a VPN as part of an antivirus package. However, when I tried to use it for other services, I encountered an unexpected issue switching on wiki platforms: despite being there as a registered user, I found myself unable to edit them.
So how can VPN be a solution?
Right, you would’ve had to use IP block exemption, which would require some level of trust from the community that you aren’t a vandal or other blocked user trying to circumspect said block. From,I dream of horsesShe/her
On Mar 19, 2024, at 11:23 AM, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org wrote: Why is there so much discussion about using VPNs as a solution? A few years ago, I acquired a VPN as part of an antivirus package. However, when I tried to use it for other services, I encountered an unexpected issue switching on wiki platforms: despite being there as a registered user, I found myself unable to edit them.
So how can VPN be a solution? A.
Il martedì 19 marzo 2024 alle ore 18:17:52 CET, Saqib Qayyum saqibqayyumc@gmail.com ha scritto:
Hello Mr James Certainly, using a VPN is a workaround, but it's worth noting that obtaining an IP block exemption is still necessary to edit Commons, and this is not always feasible for all users. Many may not even be aware of its existence. For instance, I couldn't edit Commons since October 2020 until I discovered the option for IP ban exemption. . And because of this, contributions to Commons from Pakistan have significantly dwindled. For instance, I recall organizing Wiki Loves Monuments Pakistan from 2014, where we used to receive thousands of images annually. However, in recent years, the number of uploads has drastically declined, with only a maximum of 100 photos being uploaded each year. This trend underscores the challenges Pakistani users face in accessing and contributing to the site. --Saqib Qayyum
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:55 PM James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com wrote:
Can you not just use a VPN? James On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:29 PM Saqib Qayyum saqibqayyumc@gmail.com wrote:
TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:
I am writing to you as a concerned volunteer from Pakistan regarding a critical issue that has been persisting for several years now. Despite multiple attempts to communicate this matter to members of the WMF's communication team, there has been a disappointing lack of response or acknowledgment.
For the past several years, Commons has been blocked in Pakistan. While Wikipedia was briefly blocked last year, the swift response from both Pakistani and international news media led to its unblocking. However, the blockade of Commons, being a less prominent site in comparison, has gone largely unnoticed.
Furthermore, several journalists I have spoken to have also expressed frustration over their attempts to reach out to WMF staff regarding this issue, only to receive no response.
I urge the WMF to prioritize this matter and take immediate action to address the ongoing blockage of Commons in Pakistan. Thank you for your attention to this urgent matter. -- Saqib Qayyumhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Saqib _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
I feel this discussion is veering off course. Let's set aside the debate on whether using VPNs is appropriate or not. Instead, let's focus on taking action to unblock the website. This can begin with the WMF releasing a statement. Once this gains attention from the wider news media, authorities may review their decision to block the website. -- Saqib Qayyum
On Wed, Mar 20, 2024 at 12:17 AM Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l < wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
That doesn't seem logical or fair. If a user is registered and not already blocked, the IPs they are using shouldn't matter at all. Personally, I've never used a VPN before I got it this way (even living in the PRC), but I understand that some people might need to do so for privacy reasons. So, this restriction should be removed. Registered users should have the freedom to access the platform how they want. If there's an issue with a specific user, it's more appropriate to block their username rather than restricting their access when logged in based on IP addresses. Adding more bureaucracy isn't the solution if there isn't a problem to begin with.
In any case, nothing will probably change. But please don't say that VPN is a solution. People have already enough problems that adding more and more passages.
Il martedì 19 marzo 2024 alle ore 19:51:42 CET, Neurodivergent Netizen < idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com> ha scritto:
A few years ago, I acquired a VPN as part of an antivirus package. However, when I tried to use it for other services, I encountered an unexpected issue switching on wiki platforms: despite being there as a registered user, I found myself unable to edit them.
So how can VPN be a solution?
Right, you would’ve had to use IP block exemption, which would require some level of trust from the community that you aren’t a vandal or other blocked user trying to circumspect said block.
From, I dream of horses She/her
On Mar 19, 2024, at 11:23 AM, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l < wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
Why is there so much discussion about using VPNs as a solution? A few years ago, I acquired a VPN as part of an antivirus package. However, when I tried to use it for other services, I encountered an unexpected issue switching on wiki platforms: despite being there as a registered user, I found myself unable to edit them.
So how can VPN be a solution?
A.
Il martedì 19 marzo 2024 alle ore 18:17:52 CET, Saqib Qayyum < saqibqayyumc@gmail.com> ha scritto:
Hello Mr James
Certainly, using a VPN is a workaround, but it's worth noting that obtaining an IP block exemption is still necessary to edit Commons, and this is not always feasible for all users. Many may not even be aware of its existence. For instance, I couldn't edit Commons since October 2020 until I discovered the option for IP ban exemption. .
And because of this, contributions to Commons from Pakistan have significantly dwindled. For instance, I recall organizing Wiki Loves Monuments Pakistan from 2014, where we used to receive thousands of images annually. However, in recent years, the number of uploads has drastically declined, with only a maximum of 100 photos being uploaded each year. This trend underscores the challenges Pakistani users face in accessing and contributing to the site. -- Saqib Qayyum
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:55 PM James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com wrote:
Can you not just use a VPN?
James
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:29 PM Saqib Qayyum saqibqayyumc@gmail.com wrote:
TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:
I am writing to you as a concerned volunteer from Pakistan regarding a critical issue that has been persisting for several years now. Despite multiple attempts to communicate this matter to members of the WMF's communication team, there has been a disappointing lack of response or acknowledgment.
For the past several years, Commons has been blocked in Pakistan. While Wikipedia was briefly blocked last year, the swift response from both Pakistani and international news media led to its unblocking. However, the blockade of Commons, being a less prominent site in comparison, has gone largely unnoticed.
Furthermore, several journalists I have spoken to have also expressed frustration over their attempts to reach out to WMF staff regarding this issue, only to receive no response.
I urge the WMF to prioritize this matter and take immediate action to address the ongoing blockage of Commons in Pakistan.
Thank you for your attention to this urgent matter.
Saqib Qayyum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Saqib _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
-- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/...
To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
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Unfortunately, there’s a history of an overwhelming amount of vandals using VPNs to, well, vandalize Wikipedia, hence the block on known VPN and the bureaucracy surrounding them. If the block is removed, it’ll quite likely become a problem again. It really is a situation of people behaving poorly ruining it for everyone.
From, I dream of horses She/her
On Mar 19, 2024, at 12:17 PM, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org wrote:
That doesn't seem logical or fair. If a user is registered and not already blocked, the IPs they are using shouldn't matter at all.
Personally, I've never used a VPN before I got it this way (even living in the PRC), but I understand that some people might need to do so for privacy reasons. So, this restriction should be removed. Registered users should have the freedom to access the platform how they want. If there's an issue with a specific user, it's more appropriate to block their username rather than restricting their access when logged in based on IP addresses. Adding more bureaucracy isn't the solution if there isn't a problem to begin with.
In any case, nothing will probably change. But please don't say that VPN is a solution. People have already enough problems that adding more and more passages.
Il martedì 19 marzo 2024 alle ore 19:51:42 CET, Neurodivergent Netizen idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com ha scritto:
A few years ago, I acquired a VPN as part of an antivirus package. However, when I tried to use it for other services, I encountered an unexpected issue switching on wiki platforms: despite being there as a registered user, I found myself unable to edit them.
So how can VPN be a solution?
Right, you would’ve had to use IP block exemption, which would require some level of trust from the community that you aren’t a vandal or other blocked user trying to circumspect said block.
From, I dream of horses She/her
On Mar 19, 2024, at 11:23 AM, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org wrote:
Why is there so much discussion about using VPNs as a solution? A few years ago, I acquired a VPN as part of an antivirus package. However, when I tried to use it for other services, I encountered an unexpected issue switching on wiki platforms: despite being there as a registered user, I found myself unable to edit them.
So how can VPN be a solution?
A.
Il martedì 19 marzo 2024 alle ore 18:17:52 CET, Saqib Qayyum saqibqayyumc@gmail.com ha scritto:
Hello Mr James
Certainly, using a VPN is a workaround, but it's worth noting that obtaining an IP block exemption is still necessary to edit Commons, and this is not always feasible for all users. Many may not even be aware of its existence. For instance, I couldn't edit Commons since October 2020 until I discovered the option for IP ban exemption. .
And because of this, contributions to Commons from Pakistan have significantly dwindled. For instance, I recall organizing Wiki Loves Monuments Pakistan from 2014, where we used to receive thousands of images annually. However, in recent years, the number of uploads has drastically declined, with only a maximum of 100 photos being uploaded each year. This trend underscores the challenges Pakistani users face in accessing and contributing to the site.
Saqib Qayyum
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:55 PM James Heilman <jmh649@gmail.com mailto:jmh649@gmail.com> wrote: Can you not just use a VPN?
James
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:29 PM Saqib Qayyum <saqibqayyumc@gmail.com mailto:saqibqayyumc@gmail.com> wrote: TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:
I am writing to you as a concerned volunteer from Pakistan regarding a critical issue that has been persisting for several years now. Despite multiple attempts to communicate this matter to members of the WMF's communication team, there has been a disappointing lack of response or acknowledgment.
For the past several years, Commons has been blocked in Pakistan. While Wikipedia was briefly blocked last year, the swift response from both Pakistani and international news media led to its unblocking. However, the blockade of Commons, being a less prominent site in comparison, has gone largely unnoticed.
Furthermore, several journalists I have spoken to have also expressed frustration over their attempts to reach out to WMF staff regarding this issue, only to receive no response.
I urge the WMF to prioritize this matter and take immediate action to address the ongoing blockage of Commons in Pakistan.
Thank you for your attention to this urgent matter.
Saqib Qayyum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Saqib _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
-- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/...
To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
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It's intriguing (to me) to contemplate how the notion of restricting IP editing in specific circumstances is often viewed as a violation of principle, even when supported by examples or data, yet a restriction like requiring long-standing users to jump through hoops just to use a VPN for privacy—something standard nowadays—is considered necessary and acceptable. Both policies aim to address issues while weighing the pros and cons and inevitably curbing some degree of freedom. Personally, I question the efficiency of the VPN restriction. I hold a different perspective: implementing a one or two-year, 100-500-edit registration threshold for automatic exemption of registered users seems reasonable. Nevertheless, it's important to recognize that nothing is inherently necessary; these are always political and not technical choices.
It's not just vandals ruining it; it's also the approach taken. By granting trolls immense power to disrupt everyone's activities, you fuel their mischief. Thus, every time these extreme measures are enforced and standardized, they inevitably lead to wasted time and endless debates about the status quo, and regular users pay a price. Not hypothetically, for real.... we know. Whoever prioritizes the pursuit of trolls and vandals over the work of regular users, de facto feeds the troll.
It's important to clarify: as seasoned users, many of us have kinda learned to navigate this "mess" and endure it... similar issues have been grappled with for years, Commons management shows little sign of improvement and we just don't care anymore. However, for those who haven't mastered it or are stuck in some nationwide quagmire as this one, suggesting VPNs as a solution is impractical—unless you anticipate tens of thousands of users from a country with millions of inhabitants to individually request IP exemptions. It's evident that the log of such a system would not be sustainable. I remain skeptical that an alternative solution will be implemented, given the likelihood that the approach will mirror that of the VPN case or other instances—utilizing massive and/or indefinite self-referential strict measures that are seldom evaluated on the long term with some metrics. Il martedì 19 marzo 2024 alle ore 20:24:15 CET, Neurodivergent Netizen idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com ha scritto:
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org Unfortunately, there’s a history of an overwhelming amount of vandals using VPNs to, well, vandalize Wikipedia, hence the block on known VPN and the bureaucracy surrounding them. If the block is removed, it’ll quite likely become a problem again. It really is a situation of people behaving poorly ruining it for everyone. From,I dream of horsesShe/her
On Mar 19, 2024, at 12:17 PM, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org wrote: That doesn't seem logical or fair. If a user is registered and not already blocked, the IPs they are using shouldn't matter at all. Personally, I've never used a VPN before I got it this way (even living in the PRC), but I understand that some people might need to do so for privacy reasons. So, this restriction should be removed. Registered users should have the freedom to access the platform how they want. If there's an issue with a specific user, it's more appropriate to block their username rather than restricting their access when logged in based on IP addresses. Adding more bureaucracy isn't the solution if there isn't a problem to begin with. In any case, nothing will probably change. But please don't say that VPN is a solution. People have already enough problems that adding more and more passages.
Il martedì 19 marzo 2024 alle ore 19:51:42 CET, Neurodivergent Netizen idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com ha scritto:
A few years ago, I acquired a VPN as part of an antivirus package. However, when I tried to use it for other services, I encountered an unexpected issue switching on wiki platforms: despite being there as a registered user, I found myself unable to edit them.
So how can VPN be a solution?
Right, you would’ve had to use IP block exemption, which would require some level of trust from the community that you aren’t a vandal or other blocked user trying to circumspect said block. From,I dream of horsesShe/her
On Mar 19, 2024, at 11:23 AM, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org wrote: Why is there so much discussion about using VPNs as a solution? A few years ago, I acquired a VPN as part of an antivirus package. However, when I tried to use it for other services, I encountered an unexpected issue switching on wiki platforms: despite being there as a registered user, I found myself unable to edit them.
So how can VPN be a solution? A.
Il martedì 19 marzo 2024 alle ore 18:17:52 CET, Saqib Qayyum saqibqayyumc@gmail.com ha scritto:
Hello Mr James Certainly, using a VPN is a workaround, but it's worth noting that obtaining an IP block exemption is still necessary to edit Commons, and this is not always feasible for all users. Many may not even be aware of its existence. For instance, I couldn't edit Commons since October 2020 until I discovered the option for IP ban exemption. . And because of this, contributions to Commons from Pakistan have significantly dwindled. For instance, I recall organizing Wiki Loves Monuments Pakistan from 2014, where we used to receive thousands of images annually. However, in recent years, the number of uploads has drastically declined, with only a maximum of 100 photos being uploaded each year. This trend underscores the challenges Pakistani users face in accessing and contributing to the site. --Saqib Qayyum
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:55 PM James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com wrote:
Can you not just use a VPN? James On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:29 PM Saqib Qayyum saqibqayyumc@gmail.com wrote:
TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:
I am writing to you as a concerned volunteer from Pakistan regarding a critical issue that has been persisting for several years now. Despite multiple attempts to communicate this matter to members of the WMF's communication team, there has been a disappointing lack of response or acknowledgment.
For the past several years, Commons has been blocked in Pakistan. While Wikipedia was briefly blocked last year, the swift response from both Pakistani and international news media led to its unblocking. However, the blockade of Commons, being a less prominent site in comparison, has gone largely unnoticed.
Furthermore, several journalists I have spoken to have also expressed frustration over their attempts to reach out to WMF staff regarding this issue, only to receive no response.
I urge the WMF to prioritize this matter and take immediate action to address the ongoing blockage of Commons in Pakistan. Thank you for your attention to this urgent matter. -- Saqib Qayyumhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Saqib _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
IP block exemption is already automatically granted to admins, at least on the English Wikipedia; it’s rarely needed enough that further automatic exemption doesn’t really make sense. VPNs, typically costing money, aren’t an accessible workaround, anyways. Let’s redirect attention back to getting Commons unblocked.
From, I dream of horses She/her
On Mar 19, 2024, at 2:40 PM, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org wrote:
It's intriguing (to me) to contemplate how the notion of restricting IP editing in specific circumstances is often viewed as a violation of principle, even when supported by examples or data, yet a restriction like requiring long-standing users to jump through hoops just to use a VPN for privacy—something standard nowadays—is considered necessary and acceptable. Both policies aim to address issues while weighing the pros and cons and inevitably curbing some degree of freedom.
Personally, I question the efficiency of the VPN restriction. I hold a different perspective: implementing a one or two-year, 100-500-edit registration threshold for automatic exemption of registered users seems reasonable.
Nevertheless, it's important to recognize that nothing is inherently necessary; these are always political and not technical choices.
It's not just vandals ruining it; it's also the approach taken. By granting trolls immense power to disrupt everyone's activities, you fuel their mischief. Thus, every time these extreme measures are enforced and standardized, they inevitably lead to wasted time and endless debates about the status quo, and regular users pay a price. Not hypothetically, for real.... we know. Whoever prioritizes the pursuit of trolls and vandals over the work of regular users, de facto feeds the troll.
It's important to clarify: as seasoned users, many of us have kinda learned to navigate this "mess" and endure it... similar issues have been grappled with for years, Commons management shows little sign of improvement and we just don't care anymore.
However, for those who haven't mastered it or are stuck in some nationwide quagmire as this one, suggesting VPNs as a solution is impractical—unless you anticipate tens of thousands of users from a country with millions of inhabitants to individually request IP exemptions. It's evident that the log of such a system would not be sustainable.
I remain skeptical that an alternative solution will be implemented, given the likelihood that the approach will mirror that of the VPN case or other instances—utilizing massive and/or indefinite self-referential strict measures that are seldom evaluated on the long term with some metrics.
Il martedì 19 marzo 2024 alle ore 20:24:15 CET, Neurodivergent Netizen idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com ha scritto:
Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org Unfortunately, there’s a history of an overwhelming amount of vandals using VPNs to, well, vandalize Wikipedia, hence the block on known VPN and the bureaucracy surrounding them. If the block is removed, it’ll quite likely become a problem again. It really is a situation of people behaving poorly ruining it for everyone.
From, I dream of horses She/her
On Mar 19, 2024, at 12:17 PM, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org wrote:
That doesn't seem logical or fair. If a user is registered and not already blocked, the IPs they are using shouldn't matter at all.
Personally, I've never used a VPN before I got it this way (even living in the PRC), but I understand that some people might need to do so for privacy reasons. So, this restriction should be removed. Registered users should have the freedom to access the platform how they want. If there's an issue with a specific user, it's more appropriate to block their username rather than restricting their access when logged in based on IP addresses. Adding more bureaucracy isn't the solution if there isn't a problem to begin with.
In any case, nothing will probably change. But please don't say that VPN is a solution. People have already enough problems that adding more and more passages.
Il martedì 19 marzo 2024 alle ore 19:51:42 CET, Neurodivergent Netizen idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com ha scritto:
A few years ago, I acquired a VPN as part of an antivirus package. However, when I tried to use it for other services, I encountered an unexpected issue switching on wiki platforms: despite being there as a registered user, I found myself unable to edit them.
So how can VPN be a solution?
Right, you would’ve had to use IP block exemption, which would require some level of trust from the community that you aren’t a vandal or other blocked user trying to circumspect said block.
From, I dream of horses She/her
On Mar 19, 2024, at 11:23 AM, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org wrote:
Why is there so much discussion about using VPNs as a solution? A few years ago, I acquired a VPN as part of an antivirus package. However, when I tried to use it for other services, I encountered an unexpected issue switching on wiki platforms: despite being there as a registered user, I found myself unable to edit them.
So how can VPN be a solution?
A.
Il martedì 19 marzo 2024 alle ore 18:17:52 CET, Saqib Qayyum saqibqayyumc@gmail.com ha scritto:
Hello Mr James
Certainly, using a VPN is a workaround, but it's worth noting that obtaining an IP block exemption is still necessary to edit Commons, and this is not always feasible for all users. Many may not even be aware of its existence. For instance, I couldn't edit Commons since October 2020 until I discovered the option for IP ban exemption. .
And because of this, contributions to Commons from Pakistan have significantly dwindled. For instance, I recall organizing Wiki Loves Monuments Pakistan from 2014, where we used to receive thousands of images annually. However, in recent years, the number of uploads has drastically declined, with only a maximum of 100 photos being uploaded each year. This trend underscores the challenges Pakistani users face in accessing and contributing to the site.
Saqib Qayyum
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:55 PM James Heilman <jmh649@gmail.com mailto:jmh649@gmail.com> wrote: Can you not just use a VPN?
James
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:29 PM Saqib Qayyum <saqibqayyumc@gmail.com mailto:saqibqayyumc@gmail.com> wrote: TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:
I am writing to you as a concerned volunteer from Pakistan regarding a critical issue that has been persisting for several years now. Despite multiple attempts to communicate this matter to members of the WMF's communication team, there has been a disappointing lack of response or acknowledgment.
For the past several years, Commons has been blocked in Pakistan. While Wikipedia was briefly blocked last year, the swift response from both Pakistani and international news media led to its unblocking. However, the blockade of Commons, being a less prominent site in comparison, has gone largely unnoticed.
Furthermore, several journalists I have spoken to have also expressed frustration over their attempts to reach out to WMF staff regarding this issue, only to receive no response.
I urge the WMF to prioritize this matter and take immediate action to address the ongoing blockage of Commons in Pakistan.
Thank you for your attention to this urgent matter.
Saqib Qayyum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Saqib _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
-- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/...
To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
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Here is the press release from Feb 3, 2023 from the WMF urging Pakistan to unblock Wikimedia Projects.
https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2023/02/03/wikimedia-foundation-urges-p...
Appears the reason has to do with religious content
https://netblocks.org/reports/wikipedia-restricted-in-pakistan-over-alleged-...
James
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 6:40 PM Neurodivergent Netizen < idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com> wrote:
IP block exemption is already automatically granted to admins, at least on the English Wikipedia; it’s rarely needed enough that further automatic exemption doesn’t really make sense. VPNs, typically costing money, aren’t an accessible workaround, anyways. Let’s redirect attention back to getting Commons unblocked.
From, I dream of horses She/her
On Mar 19, 2024, at 2:40 PM, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l < wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
It's intriguing (to me) to contemplate how the notion of restricting IP editing in specific circumstances is often viewed as a violation of principle, even when supported by examples or data, yet a restriction like requiring long-standing users to jump through hoops just to use a VPN for privacy—something standard nowadays—is considered necessary and acceptable. Both policies aim to address issues while weighing the pros and cons and inevitably curbing some degree of freedom.
Personally, I question the efficiency of the VPN restriction. I hold a different perspective: implementing a one or two-year, 100-500-edit registration threshold for automatic exemption of registered users seems reasonable.
Nevertheless, it's important to recognize that nothing is inherently necessary; these are always political and not technical choices.
It's not just vandals ruining it; it's also the approach taken. By granting trolls immense power to disrupt everyone's activities, you fuel their mischief. Thus, every time these extreme measures are enforced and standardized, they inevitably lead to wasted time and endless debates about the status quo, and regular users pay a price. Not hypothetically, for real.... we know. Whoever prioritizes the pursuit of trolls and vandals over the work of regular users, de facto feeds the troll.
It's important to clarify: as seasoned users, many of us have kinda learned to navigate this "mess" and endure it... similar issues have been grappled with for years, Commons management shows little sign of improvement and we just don't care anymore.
However, for those who haven't mastered it or are stuck in some nationwide quagmire as this one, suggesting VPNs as a solution is impractical—unless you anticipate tens of thousands of users from a country with millions of inhabitants to individually request IP exemptions. It's evident that the log of such a system would not be sustainable.
I remain skeptical that an alternative solution will be implemented, given the likelihood that the approach will mirror that of the VPN case or other instances—utilizing massive and/or indefinite self-referential strict measures that are seldom evaluated on the long term with some metrics.
Il martedì 19 marzo 2024 alle ore 20:24:15 CET, Neurodivergent Netizen < idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com> ha scritto:
Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org Unfortunately, there’s a history of an overwhelming amount of vandals using VPNs to, well, vandalize Wikipedia, hence the block on known VPN and the bureaucracy surrounding them. If the block is removed, it’ll quite likely become a problem again. It really is a situation of people behaving poorly ruining it for everyone.
From, I dream of horses She/her
On Mar 19, 2024, at 12:17 PM, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l < wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
That doesn't seem logical or fair. If a user is registered and not already blocked, the IPs they are using shouldn't matter at all. Personally, I've never used a VPN before I got it this way (even living in the PRC), but I understand that some people might need to do so for privacy reasons. So, this restriction should be removed. Registered users should have the freedom to access the platform how they want. If there's an issue with a specific user, it's more appropriate to block their username rather than restricting their access when logged in based on IP addresses. Adding more bureaucracy isn't the solution if there isn't a problem to begin with.
In any case, nothing will probably change. But please don't say that VPN is a solution. People have already enough problems that adding more and more passages.
Il martedì 19 marzo 2024 alle ore 19:51:42 CET, Neurodivergent Netizen < idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com> ha scritto:
A few years ago, I acquired a VPN as part of an antivirus package. However, when I tried to use it for other services, I encountered an unexpected issue switching on wiki platforms: despite being there as a registered user, I found myself unable to edit them.
So how can VPN be a solution?
Right, you would’ve had to use IP block exemption, which would require some level of trust from the community that you aren’t a vandal or other blocked user trying to circumspect said block.
From, I dream of horses She/her
On Mar 19, 2024, at 11:23 AM, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l < wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
Why is there so much discussion about using VPNs as a solution? A few years ago, I acquired a VPN as part of an antivirus package. However, when I tried to use it for other services, I encountered an unexpected issue switching on wiki platforms: despite being there as a registered user, I found myself unable to edit them.
So how can VPN be a solution?
A.
Il martedì 19 marzo 2024 alle ore 18:17:52 CET, Saqib Qayyum < saqibqayyumc@gmail.com> ha scritto:
Hello Mr James
Certainly, using a VPN is a workaround, but it's worth noting that obtaining an IP block exemption is still necessary to edit Commons, and this is not always feasible for all users. Many may not even be aware of its existence. For instance, I couldn't edit Commons since October 2020 until I discovered the option for IP ban exemption. .
And because of this, contributions to Commons from Pakistan have significantly dwindled. For instance, I recall organizing Wiki Loves Monuments Pakistan from 2014, where we used to receive thousands of images annually. However, in recent years, the number of uploads has drastically declined, with only a maximum of 100 photos being uploaded each year. This trend underscores the challenges Pakistani users face in accessing and contributing to the site. -- Saqib Qayyum
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:55 PM James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com wrote:
Can you not just use a VPN?
James
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:29 PM Saqib Qayyum saqibqayyumc@gmail.com wrote:
TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:
I am writing to you as a concerned volunteer from Pakistan regarding a critical issue that has been persisting for several years now. Despite multiple attempts to communicate this matter to members of the WMF's communication team, there has been a disappointing lack of response or acknowledgment.
For the past several years, Commons has been blocked in Pakistan. While Wikipedia was briefly blocked last year, the swift response from both Pakistani and international news media led to its unblocking. However, the blockade of Commons, being a less prominent site in comparison, has gone largely unnoticed.
Furthermore, several journalists I have spoken to have also expressed frustration over their attempts to reach out to WMF staff regarding this issue, only to receive no response.
I urge the WMF to prioritize this matter and take immediate action to address the ongoing blockage of Commons in Pakistan.
Thank you for your attention to this urgent matter.
Saqib Qayyum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Saqib _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
-- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
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To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
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I remember this statement was issued when Wikipedia was briefly blocked last year. -- Saqib Qayyum
On Wed, Mar 20, 2024 at 7:54 AM James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com wrote:
Here is the press release from Feb 3, 2023 from the WMF urging Pakistan to unblock Wikimedia Projects.
https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2023/02/03/wikimedia-foundation-urges-p...
Appears the reason has to do with religious content
https://netblocks.org/reports/wikipedia-restricted-in-pakistan-over-alleged-...
James
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 6:40 PM Neurodivergent Netizen < idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com> wrote:
IP block exemption is already automatically granted to admins, at least on the English Wikipedia; it’s rarely needed enough that further automatic exemption doesn’t really make sense. VPNs, typically costing money, aren’t an accessible workaround, anyways. Let’s redirect attention back to getting Commons unblocked.
From, I dream of horses She/her
On Mar 19, 2024, at 2:40 PM, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l < wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
It's intriguing (to me) to contemplate how the notion of restricting IP editing in specific circumstances is often viewed as a violation of principle, even when supported by examples or data, yet a restriction like requiring long-standing users to jump through hoops just to use a VPN for privacy—something standard nowadays—is considered necessary and acceptable. Both policies aim to address issues while weighing the pros and cons and inevitably curbing some degree of freedom.
Personally, I question the efficiency of the VPN restriction. I hold a different perspective: implementing a one or two-year, 100-500-edit registration threshold for automatic exemption of registered users seems reasonable.
Nevertheless, it's important to recognize that nothing is inherently necessary; these are always political and not technical choices.
It's not just vandals ruining it; it's also the approach taken. By granting trolls immense power to disrupt everyone's activities, you fuel their mischief. Thus, every time these extreme measures are enforced and standardized, they inevitably lead to wasted time and endless debates about the status quo, and regular users pay a price. Not hypothetically, for real.... we know. Whoever prioritizes the pursuit of trolls and vandals over the work of regular users, de facto feeds the troll.
It's important to clarify: as seasoned users, many of us have kinda learned to navigate this "mess" and endure it... similar issues have been grappled with for years, Commons management shows little sign of improvement and we just don't care anymore.
However, for those who haven't mastered it or are stuck in some nationwide quagmire as this one, suggesting VPNs as a solution is impractical—unless you anticipate tens of thousands of users from a country with millions of inhabitants to individually request IP exemptions. It's evident that the log of such a system would not be sustainable.
I remain skeptical that an alternative solution will be implemented, given the likelihood that the approach will mirror that of the VPN case or other instances—utilizing massive and/or indefinite self-referential strict measures that are seldom evaluated on the long term with some metrics.
Il martedì 19 marzo 2024 alle ore 20:24:15 CET, Neurodivergent Netizen < idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com> ha scritto:
Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org Unfortunately, there’s a history of an overwhelming amount of vandals using VPNs to, well, vandalize Wikipedia, hence the block on known VPN and the bureaucracy surrounding them. If the block is removed, it’ll quite likely become a problem again. It really is a situation of people behaving poorly ruining it for everyone.
From, I dream of horses She/her
On Mar 19, 2024, at 12:17 PM, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l < wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
That doesn't seem logical or fair. If a user is registered and not already blocked, the IPs they are using shouldn't matter at all. Personally, I've never used a VPN before I got it this way (even living in the PRC), but I understand that some people might need to do so for privacy reasons. So, this restriction should be removed. Registered users should have the freedom to access the platform how they want. If there's an issue with a specific user, it's more appropriate to block their username rather than restricting their access when logged in based on IP addresses. Adding more bureaucracy isn't the solution if there isn't a problem to begin with.
In any case, nothing will probably change. But please don't say that VPN is a solution. People have already enough problems that adding more and more passages.
Il martedì 19 marzo 2024 alle ore 19:51:42 CET, Neurodivergent Netizen < idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com> ha scritto:
A few years ago, I acquired a VPN as part of an antivirus package. However, when I tried to use it for other services, I encountered an unexpected issue switching on wiki platforms: despite being there as a registered user, I found myself unable to edit them.
So how can VPN be a solution?
Right, you would’ve had to use IP block exemption, which would require some level of trust from the community that you aren’t a vandal or other blocked user trying to circumspect said block.
From, I dream of horses She/her
On Mar 19, 2024, at 11:23 AM, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l < wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
Why is there so much discussion about using VPNs as a solution? A few years ago, I acquired a VPN as part of an antivirus package. However, when I tried to use it for other services, I encountered an unexpected issue switching on wiki platforms: despite being there as a registered user, I found myself unable to edit them.
So how can VPN be a solution?
A.
Il martedì 19 marzo 2024 alle ore 18:17:52 CET, Saqib Qayyum < saqibqayyumc@gmail.com> ha scritto:
Hello Mr James
Certainly, using a VPN is a workaround, but it's worth noting that obtaining an IP block exemption is still necessary to edit Commons, and this is not always feasible for all users. Many may not even be aware of its existence. For instance, I couldn't edit Commons since October 2020 until I discovered the option for IP ban exemption. .
And because of this, contributions to Commons from Pakistan have significantly dwindled. For instance, I recall organizing Wiki Loves Monuments Pakistan from 2014, where we used to receive thousands of images annually. However, in recent years, the number of uploads has drastically declined, with only a maximum of 100 photos being uploaded each year. This trend underscores the challenges Pakistani users face in accessing and contributing to the site. -- Saqib Qayyum
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:55 PM James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com wrote:
Can you not just use a VPN?
James
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:29 PM Saqib Qayyum saqibqayyumc@gmail.com wrote:
TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:
I am writing to you as a concerned volunteer from Pakistan regarding a critical issue that has been persisting for several years now. Despite multiple attempts to communicate this matter to members of the WMF's communication team, there has been a disappointing lack of response or acknowledgment.
For the past several years, Commons has been blocked in Pakistan. While Wikipedia was briefly blocked last year, the swift response from both Pakistani and international news media led to its unblocking. However, the blockade of Commons, being a less prominent site in comparison, has gone largely unnoticed.
Furthermore, several journalists I have spoken to have also expressed frustration over their attempts to reach out to WMF staff regarding this issue, only to receive no response.
I urge the WMF to prioritize this matter and take immediate action to address the ongoing blockage of Commons in Pakistan.
Thank you for your attention to this urgent matter.
Saqib Qayyum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Saqib _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
-- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
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To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
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-- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Could someone please explicitly state which Wikimedia projects are blocked in Pakistan? This thread starts around the blocking of Commons, but information provided by James Heilman implies that (at least one point) ALL Wikimedia projects are blocked. So, to be clear, are Wikipedias also blocked? Other projects? Understanding the extent of the block will help the broader community to best assist our Pakistani colleagues in continuing to contribute, and for helping the broad Pakistani citizenship to access our work.
It may be helpful for someone from the WMF who is in a position to report to tell us exactly which projects are currently blocked, and whether or not any of the originally blocked projects have now had blocks lifted.
Risker/Anne
Risker/Anne
On Wed, 20 Mar 2024 at 11:21, Saqib Qayyum saqibqayyumc@gmail.com wrote:
I remember this statement was issued when Wikipedia was briefly blocked last year. -- Saqib Qayyum
On Wed, Mar 20, 2024 at 7:54 AM James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com wrote:
Here is the press release from Feb 3, 2023 from the WMF urging Pakistan to unblock Wikimedia Projects.
https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2023/02/03/wikimedia-foundation-urges-p...
Appears the reason has to do with religious content
https://netblocks.org/reports/wikipedia-restricted-in-pakistan-over-alleged-...
James
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 6:40 PM Neurodivergent Netizen < idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com> wrote:
IP block exemption is already automatically granted to admins, at least on the English Wikipedia; it’s rarely needed enough that further automatic exemption doesn’t really make sense. VPNs, typically costing money, aren’t an accessible workaround, anyways. Let’s redirect attention back to getting Commons unblocked.
From, I dream of horses She/her
On Mar 19, 2024, at 2:40 PM, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l < wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
It's intriguing (to me) to contemplate how the notion of restricting IP editing in specific circumstances is often viewed as a violation of principle, even when supported by examples or data, yet a restriction like requiring long-standing users to jump through hoops just to use a VPN for privacy—something standard nowadays—is considered necessary and acceptable. Both policies aim to address issues while weighing the pros and cons and inevitably curbing some degree of freedom.
Personally, I question the efficiency of the VPN restriction. I hold a different perspective: implementing a one or two-year, 100-500-edit registration threshold for automatic exemption of registered users seems reasonable.
Nevertheless, it's important to recognize that nothing is inherently necessary; these are always political and not technical choices.
It's not just vandals ruining it; it's also the approach taken. By granting trolls immense power to disrupt everyone's activities, you fuel their mischief. Thus, every time these extreme measures are enforced and standardized, they inevitably lead to wasted time and endless debates about the status quo, and regular users pay a price. Not hypothetically, for real.... we know. Whoever prioritizes the pursuit of trolls and vandals over the work of regular users, de facto feeds the troll.
It's important to clarify: as seasoned users, many of us have kinda learned to navigate this "mess" and endure it... similar issues have been grappled with for years, Commons management shows little sign of improvement and we just don't care anymore.
However, for those who haven't mastered it or are stuck in some nationwide quagmire as this one, suggesting VPNs as a solution is impractical—unless you anticipate tens of thousands of users from a country with millions of inhabitants to individually request IP exemptions. It's evident that the log of such a system would not be sustainable.
I remain skeptical that an alternative solution will be implemented, given the likelihood that the approach will mirror that of the VPN case or other instances—utilizing massive and/or indefinite self-referential strict measures that are seldom evaluated on the long term with some metrics.
Il martedì 19 marzo 2024 alle ore 20:24:15 CET, Neurodivergent Netizen < idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com> ha scritto:
Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org Unfortunately, there’s a history of an overwhelming amount of vandals using VPNs to, well, vandalize Wikipedia, hence the block on known VPN and the bureaucracy surrounding them. If the block is removed, it’ll quite likely become a problem again. It really is a situation of people behaving poorly ruining it for everyone.
From, I dream of horses She/her
On Mar 19, 2024, at 12:17 PM, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l < wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
That doesn't seem logical or fair. If a user is registered and not already blocked, the IPs they are using shouldn't matter at all. Personally, I've never used a VPN before I got it this way (even living in the PRC), but I understand that some people might need to do so for privacy reasons. So, this restriction should be removed. Registered users should have the freedom to access the platform how they want. If there's an issue with a specific user, it's more appropriate to block their username rather than restricting their access when logged in based on IP addresses. Adding more bureaucracy isn't the solution if there isn't a problem to begin with.
In any case, nothing will probably change. But please don't say that VPN is a solution. People have already enough problems that adding more and more passages.
Il martedì 19 marzo 2024 alle ore 19:51:42 CET, Neurodivergent Netizen < idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com> ha scritto:
A few years ago, I acquired a VPN as part of an antivirus package. However, when I tried to use it for other services, I encountered an unexpected issue switching on wiki platforms: despite being there as a registered user, I found myself unable to edit them.
So how can VPN be a solution?
Right, you would’ve had to use IP block exemption, which would require some level of trust from the community that you aren’t a vandal or other blocked user trying to circumspect said block.
From, I dream of horses She/her
On Mar 19, 2024, at 11:23 AM, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l < wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
Why is there so much discussion about using VPNs as a solution? A few years ago, I acquired a VPN as part of an antivirus package. However, when I tried to use it for other services, I encountered an unexpected issue switching on wiki platforms: despite being there as a registered user, I found myself unable to edit them.
So how can VPN be a solution?
A.
Il martedì 19 marzo 2024 alle ore 18:17:52 CET, Saqib Qayyum < saqibqayyumc@gmail.com> ha scritto:
Hello Mr James
Certainly, using a VPN is a workaround, but it's worth noting that obtaining an IP block exemption is still necessary to edit Commons, and this is not always feasible for all users. Many may not even be aware of its existence. For instance, I couldn't edit Commons since October 2020 until I discovered the option for IP ban exemption. .
And because of this, contributions to Commons from Pakistan have significantly dwindled. For instance, I recall organizing Wiki Loves Monuments Pakistan from 2014, where we used to receive thousands of images annually. However, in recent years, the number of uploads has drastically declined, with only a maximum of 100 photos being uploaded each year. This trend underscores the challenges Pakistani users face in accessing and contributing to the site. -- Saqib Qayyum
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:55 PM James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com wrote:
Can you not just use a VPN?
James
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:29 PM Saqib Qayyum saqibqayyumc@gmail.com wrote:
TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:
I am writing to you as a concerned volunteer from Pakistan regarding a critical issue that has been persisting for several years now. Despite multiple attempts to communicate this matter to members of the WMF's communication team, there has been a disappointing lack of response or acknowledgment.
For the past several years, Commons has been blocked in Pakistan. While Wikipedia was briefly blocked last year, the swift response from both Pakistani and international news media led to its unblocking. However, the blockade of Commons, being a less prominent site in comparison, has gone largely unnoticed.
Furthermore, several journalists I have spoken to have also expressed frustration over their attempts to reach out to WMF staff regarding this issue, only to receive no response.
I urge the WMF to prioritize this matter and take immediate action to address the ongoing blockage of Commons in Pakistan.
Thank you for your attention to this urgent matter.
Saqib Qayyum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Saqib _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
-- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
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To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
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-- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
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As of now, only the Commons is blocked. -- Saqib Qayyum
On Wed, Mar 20, 2024 at 9:14 PM Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
Could someone please explicitly state which Wikimedia projects are blocked in Pakistan? This thread starts around the blocking of Commons, but information provided by James Heilman implies that (at least one point) ALL Wikimedia projects are blocked. So, to be clear, are Wikipedias also blocked? Other projects? Understanding the extent of the block will help the broader community to best assist our Pakistani colleagues in continuing to contribute, and for helping the broad Pakistani citizenship to access our work.
It may be helpful for someone from the WMF who is in a position to report to tell us exactly which projects are currently blocked, and whether or not any of the originally blocked projects have now had blocks lifted.
Risker/Anne
Risker/Anne
On Wed, 20 Mar 2024 at 11:21, Saqib Qayyum saqibqayyumc@gmail.com wrote:
I remember this statement was issued when Wikipedia was briefly blocked last year. -- Saqib Qayyum
On Wed, Mar 20, 2024 at 7:54 AM James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com wrote:
Here is the press release from Feb 3, 2023 from the WMF urging Pakistan to unblock Wikimedia Projects.
https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2023/02/03/wikimedia-foundation-urges-p...
Appears the reason has to do with religious content
https://netblocks.org/reports/wikipedia-restricted-in-pakistan-over-alleged-...
James
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 6:40 PM Neurodivergent Netizen < idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com> wrote:
IP block exemption is already automatically granted to admins, at least on the English Wikipedia; it’s rarely needed enough that further automatic exemption doesn’t really make sense. VPNs, typically costing money, aren’t an accessible workaround, anyways. Let’s redirect attention back to getting Commons unblocked.
From, I dream of horses She/her
On Mar 19, 2024, at 2:40 PM, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l < wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
It's intriguing (to me) to contemplate how the notion of restricting IP editing in specific circumstances is often viewed as a violation of principle, even when supported by examples or data, yet a restriction like requiring long-standing users to jump through hoops just to use a VPN for privacy—something standard nowadays—is considered necessary and acceptable. Both policies aim to address issues while weighing the pros and cons and inevitably curbing some degree of freedom.
Personally, I question the efficiency of the VPN restriction. I hold a different perspective: implementing a one or two-year, 100-500-edit registration threshold for automatic exemption of registered users seems reasonable.
Nevertheless, it's important to recognize that nothing is inherently necessary; these are always political and not technical choices.
It's not just vandals ruining it; it's also the approach taken. By granting trolls immense power to disrupt everyone's activities, you fuel their mischief. Thus, every time these extreme measures are enforced and standardized, they inevitably lead to wasted time and endless debates about the status quo, and regular users pay a price. Not hypothetically, for real.... we know. Whoever prioritizes the pursuit of trolls and vandals over the work of regular users, de facto feeds the troll.
It's important to clarify: as seasoned users, many of us have kinda learned to navigate this "mess" and endure it... similar issues have been grappled with for years, Commons management shows little sign of improvement and we just don't care anymore.
However, for those who haven't mastered it or are stuck in some nationwide quagmire as this one, suggesting VPNs as a solution is impractical—unless you anticipate tens of thousands of users from a country with millions of inhabitants to individually request IP exemptions. It's evident that the log of such a system would not be sustainable.
I remain skeptical that an alternative solution will be implemented, given the likelihood that the approach will mirror that of the VPN case or other instances—utilizing massive and/or indefinite self-referential strict measures that are seldom evaluated on the long term with some metrics.
Il martedì 19 marzo 2024 alle ore 20:24:15 CET, Neurodivergent Netizen < idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com> ha scritto:
Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org Unfortunately, there’s a history of an overwhelming amount of vandals using VPNs to, well, vandalize Wikipedia, hence the block on known VPN and the bureaucracy surrounding them. If the block is removed, it’ll quite likely become a problem again. It really is a situation of people behaving poorly ruining it for everyone.
From, I dream of horses She/her
On Mar 19, 2024, at 12:17 PM, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l < wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
That doesn't seem logical or fair. If a user is registered and not already blocked, the IPs they are using shouldn't matter at all. Personally, I've never used a VPN before I got it this way (even living in the PRC), but I understand that some people might need to do so for privacy reasons. So, this restriction should be removed. Registered users should have the freedom to access the platform how they want. If there's an issue with a specific user, it's more appropriate to block their username rather than restricting their access when logged in based on IP addresses. Adding more bureaucracy isn't the solution if there isn't a problem to begin with.
In any case, nothing will probably change. But please don't say that VPN is a solution. People have already enough problems that adding more and more passages.
Il martedì 19 marzo 2024 alle ore 19:51:42 CET, Neurodivergent Netizen < idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com> ha scritto:
A few years ago, I acquired a VPN as part of an antivirus package. However, when I tried to use it for other services, I encountered an unexpected issue switching on wiki platforms: despite being there as a registered user, I found myself unable to edit them.
So how can VPN be a solution?
Right, you would’ve had to use IP block exemption, which would require some level of trust from the community that you aren’t a vandal or other blocked user trying to circumspect said block.
From, I dream of horses She/her
On Mar 19, 2024, at 11:23 AM, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l < wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
Why is there so much discussion about using VPNs as a solution? A few years ago, I acquired a VPN as part of an antivirus package. However, when I tried to use it for other services, I encountered an unexpected issue switching on wiki platforms: despite being there as a registered user, I found myself unable to edit them.
So how can VPN be a solution?
A.
Il martedì 19 marzo 2024 alle ore 18:17:52 CET, Saqib Qayyum < saqibqayyumc@gmail.com> ha scritto:
Hello Mr James
Certainly, using a VPN is a workaround, but it's worth noting that obtaining an IP block exemption is still necessary to edit Commons, and this is not always feasible for all users. Many may not even be aware of its existence. For instance, I couldn't edit Commons since October 2020 until I discovered the option for IP ban exemption. .
And because of this, contributions to Commons from Pakistan have significantly dwindled. For instance, I recall organizing Wiki Loves Monuments Pakistan from 2014, where we used to receive thousands of images annually. However, in recent years, the number of uploads has drastically declined, with only a maximum of 100 photos being uploaded each year. This trend underscores the challenges Pakistani users face in accessing and contributing to the site. -- Saqib Qayyum
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:55 PM James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com wrote:
Can you not just use a VPN?
James
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:29 PM Saqib Qayyum saqibqayyumc@gmail.com wrote:
TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:
I am writing to you as a concerned volunteer from Pakistan regarding a critical issue that has been persisting for several years now. Despite multiple attempts to communicate this matter to members of the WMF's communication team, there has been a disappointing lack of response or acknowledgment.
For the past several years, Commons has been blocked in Pakistan. While Wikipedia was briefly blocked last year, the swift response from both Pakistani and international news media led to its unblocking. However, the blockade of Commons, being a less prominent site in comparison, has gone largely unnoticed.
Furthermore, several journalists I have spoken to have also expressed frustration over their attempts to reach out to WMF staff regarding this issue, only to receive no response.
I urge the WMF to prioritize this matter and take immediate action to address the ongoing blockage of Commons in Pakistan.
Thank you for your attention to this urgent matter.
Saqib Qayyum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Saqib _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
-- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
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To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
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-- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
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My understanding is that only Commons is currently blocked in Pakistan.
In July 2023, when I visited, I could (and did) edit Wikipedia and Wikivoyage in several languages, as well as Wikidata. To be honest I did not try Urdu Wikipedia, but I guess if it were blocked in Pakistan we would know this.
My impression from the communication with WMF I described earlier was that they learned about the Commons block from me. I might be wrong of course.
Best Yaroslav
On Wed, Mar 20, 2024 at 5:14 PM Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
Could someone please explicitly state which Wikimedia projects are blocked in Pakistan? This thread starts around the blocking of Commons, but information provided by James Heilman implies that (at least one point) ALL Wikimedia projects are blocked. So, to be clear, are Wikipedias also blocked? Other projects? Understanding the extent of the block will help the broader community to best assist our Pakistani colleagues in continuing to contribute, and for helping the broad Pakistani citizenship to access our work.
It may be helpful for someone from the WMF who is in a position to report to tell us exactly which projects are currently blocked, and whether or not any of the originally blocked projects have now had blocks lifted.
Risker/Anne
Risker/Anne
On Wed, 20 Mar 2024 at 11:21, Saqib Qayyum saqibqayyumc@gmail.com wrote:
I remember this statement was issued when Wikipedia was briefly blocked last year. -- Saqib Qayyum
On Wed, Mar 20, 2024 at 7:54 AM James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com wrote:
Here is the press release from Feb 3, 2023 from the WMF urging Pakistan to unblock Wikimedia Projects.
https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2023/02/03/wikimedia-foundation-urges-p...
Appears the reason has to do with religious content
https://netblocks.org/reports/wikipedia-restricted-in-pakistan-over-alleged-...
James
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 6:40 PM Neurodivergent Netizen < idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com> wrote:
IP block exemption is already automatically granted to admins, at least on the English Wikipedia; it’s rarely needed enough that further automatic exemption doesn’t really make sense. VPNs, typically costing money, aren’t an accessible workaround, anyways. Let’s redirect attention back to getting Commons unblocked.
From, I dream of horses She/her
On Mar 19, 2024, at 2:40 PM, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l < wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
It's intriguing (to me) to contemplate how the notion of restricting IP editing in specific circumstances is often viewed as a violation of principle, even when supported by examples or data, yet a restriction like requiring long-standing users to jump through hoops just to use a VPN for privacy—something standard nowadays—is considered necessary and acceptable. Both policies aim to address issues while weighing the pros and cons and inevitably curbing some degree of freedom.
Personally, I question the efficiency of the VPN restriction. I hold a different perspective: implementing a one or two-year, 100-500-edit registration threshold for automatic exemption of registered users seems reasonable.
Nevertheless, it's important to recognize that nothing is inherently necessary; these are always political and not technical choices.
It's not just vandals ruining it; it's also the approach taken. By granting trolls immense power to disrupt everyone's activities, you fuel their mischief. Thus, every time these extreme measures are enforced and standardized, they inevitably lead to wasted time and endless debates about the status quo, and regular users pay a price. Not hypothetically, for real.... we know. Whoever prioritizes the pursuit of trolls and vandals over the work of regular users, de facto feeds the troll.
It's important to clarify: as seasoned users, many of us have kinda learned to navigate this "mess" and endure it... similar issues have been grappled with for years, Commons management shows little sign of improvement and we just don't care anymore.
However, for those who haven't mastered it or are stuck in some nationwide quagmire as this one, suggesting VPNs as a solution is impractical—unless you anticipate tens of thousands of users from a country with millions of inhabitants to individually request IP exemptions. It's evident that the log of such a system would not be sustainable.
I remain skeptical that an alternative solution will be implemented, given the likelihood that the approach will mirror that of the VPN case or other instances—utilizing massive and/or indefinite self-referential strict measures that are seldom evaluated on the long term with some metrics.
Il martedì 19 marzo 2024 alle ore 20:24:15 CET, Neurodivergent Netizen < idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com> ha scritto:
Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org Unfortunately, there’s a history of an overwhelming amount of vandals using VPNs to, well, vandalize Wikipedia, hence the block on known VPN and the bureaucracy surrounding them. If the block is removed, it’ll quite likely become a problem again. It really is a situation of people behaving poorly ruining it for everyone.
From, I dream of horses She/her
On Mar 19, 2024, at 12:17 PM, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l < wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
That doesn't seem logical or fair. If a user is registered and not already blocked, the IPs they are using shouldn't matter at all. Personally, I've never used a VPN before I got it this way (even living in the PRC), but I understand that some people might need to do so for privacy reasons. So, this restriction should be removed. Registered users should have the freedom to access the platform how they want. If there's an issue with a specific user, it's more appropriate to block their username rather than restricting their access when logged in based on IP addresses. Adding more bureaucracy isn't the solution if there isn't a problem to begin with.
In any case, nothing will probably change. But please don't say that VPN is a solution. People have already enough problems that adding more and more passages.
Il martedì 19 marzo 2024 alle ore 19:51:42 CET, Neurodivergent Netizen < idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com> ha scritto:
A few years ago, I acquired a VPN as part of an antivirus package. However, when I tried to use it for other services, I encountered an unexpected issue switching on wiki platforms: despite being there as a registered user, I found myself unable to edit them.
So how can VPN be a solution?
Right, you would’ve had to use IP block exemption, which would require some level of trust from the community that you aren’t a vandal or other blocked user trying to circumspect said block.
From, I dream of horses She/her
On Mar 19, 2024, at 11:23 AM, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l < wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
Why is there so much discussion about using VPNs as a solution? A few years ago, I acquired a VPN as part of an antivirus package. However, when I tried to use it for other services, I encountered an unexpected issue switching on wiki platforms: despite being there as a registered user, I found myself unable to edit them.
So how can VPN be a solution?
A.
Il martedì 19 marzo 2024 alle ore 18:17:52 CET, Saqib Qayyum < saqibqayyumc@gmail.com> ha scritto:
Hello Mr James
Certainly, using a VPN is a workaround, but it's worth noting that obtaining an IP block exemption is still necessary to edit Commons, and this is not always feasible for all users. Many may not even be aware of its existence. For instance, I couldn't edit Commons since October 2020 until I discovered the option for IP ban exemption. .
And because of this, contributions to Commons from Pakistan have significantly dwindled. For instance, I recall organizing Wiki Loves Monuments Pakistan from 2014, where we used to receive thousands of images annually. However, in recent years, the number of uploads has drastically declined, with only a maximum of 100 photos being uploaded each year. This trend underscores the challenges Pakistani users face in accessing and contributing to the site. -- Saqib Qayyum
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:55 PM James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com wrote:
Can you not just use a VPN?
James
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:29 PM Saqib Qayyum saqibqayyumc@gmail.com wrote:
TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:
I am writing to you as a concerned volunteer from Pakistan regarding a critical issue that has been persisting for several years now. Despite multiple attempts to communicate this matter to members of the WMF's communication team, there has been a disappointing lack of response or acknowledgment.
For the past several years, Commons has been blocked in Pakistan. While Wikipedia was briefly blocked last year, the swift response from both Pakistani and international news media led to its unblocking. However, the blockade of Commons, being a less prominent site in comparison, has gone largely unnoticed.
Furthermore, several journalists I have spoken to have also expressed frustration over their attempts to reach out to WMF staff regarding this issue, only to receive no response.
I urge the WMF to prioritize this matter and take immediate action to address the ongoing blockage of Commons in Pakistan.
Thank you for your attention to this urgent matter.
Saqib Qayyum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Saqib _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
-- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
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To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
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-- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
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Hi all,
I am Stephen LaPorte, the General Counsel at the Foundation.
We have received reports that Wikimedia Commons has been partially inaccessible in Pakistan—depending on the user's Internet Service Provider—for multiple years, starting as early as 2021. My understanding is that it does not affect the display of images on Wikipedia, and it predates the blocking and unblocking https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2023/02/03/wikimedia-foundation-urges-pakistan-telecommunications-authority-to-restore-access-to-wikipedia-in-pakistan/ of Wikipedia in February 2023.
We have not received any formal notice or a recent legal demand related to Wikimedia Commons, so we do not know on what grounds the site is partially inaccessible or how many people have been affected since this started. Overall, traffic to Wikimedia Commons from Pakistan before 2020 is too low to establish a clear pattern that shows when this started or the extent of the disruption. All these factors have made understanding the situation difficult and require a balanced response, and we remain committed to knowledge access in the country.
After Yaroslav reported https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump/Archive/2023/07#Is_Wikimedia_Commons_blocked_in_Pakistan? not being able to access the site last year, we investigated further. We've shared information about this situation with other organizations that monitor internet censorship and advocate for internet freedom in Pakistan.
We believe that access to knowledge is a human right, and we oppose internet censorship in all forms. We believe that limiting access to projects like Wikimedia Commons deprives people of access to important historical and educational content and makes it more difficult for local volunteers to share their media with the world.
If you experience censorship of the Wikimedia projects, you are welcome to report this directly to the Wikimedia Foundation at answers@wikimedia.org and we can help route the question to the right technical experts within the Foundation.
Best, Stephen
On Wed, Mar 20, 2024 at 10:06 AM Yaroslav Blanter ymbalt@gmail.com wrote:
My understanding is that only Commons is currently blocked in Pakistan.
In July 2023, when I visited, I could (and did) edit Wikipedia and Wikivoyage in several languages, as well as Wikidata. To be honest I did not try Urdu Wikipedia, but I guess if it were blocked in Pakistan we would know this.
My impression from the communication with WMF I described earlier was that they learned about the Commons block from me. I might be wrong of course.
Best Yaroslav
On Wed, Mar 20, 2024 at 5:14 PM Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
Could someone please explicitly state which Wikimedia projects are blocked in Pakistan? This thread starts around the blocking of Commons, but information provided by James Heilman implies that (at least one point) ALL Wikimedia projects are blocked. So, to be clear, are Wikipedias also blocked? Other projects? Understanding the extent of the block will help the broader community to best assist our Pakistani colleagues in continuing to contribute, and for helping the broad Pakistani citizenship to access our work.
It may be helpful for someone from the WMF who is in a position to report to tell us exactly which projects are currently blocked, and whether or not any of the originally blocked projects have now had blocks lifted.
Risker/Anne
Risker/Anne
On Wed, 20 Mar 2024 at 11:21, Saqib Qayyum saqibqayyumc@gmail.com wrote:
I remember this statement was issued when Wikipedia was briefly blocked last year. -- Saqib Qayyum
On Wed, Mar 20, 2024 at 7:54 AM James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com wrote:
Here is the press release from Feb 3, 2023 from the WMF urging Pakistan to unblock Wikimedia Projects.
https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2023/02/03/wikimedia-foundation-urges-p...
Appears the reason has to do with religious content
https://netblocks.org/reports/wikipedia-restricted-in-pakistan-over-alleged-...
James
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 6:40 PM Neurodivergent Netizen < idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com> wrote:
IP block exemption is already automatically granted to admins, at least on the English Wikipedia; it’s rarely needed enough that further automatic exemption doesn’t really make sense. VPNs, typically costing money, aren’t an accessible workaround, anyways. Let’s redirect attention back to getting Commons unblocked.
From, I dream of horses She/her
On Mar 19, 2024, at 2:40 PM, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l < wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
It's intriguing (to me) to contemplate how the notion of restricting IP editing in specific circumstances is often viewed as a violation of principle, even when supported by examples or data, yet a restriction like requiring long-standing users to jump through hoops just to use a VPN for privacy—something standard nowadays—is considered necessary and acceptable. Both policies aim to address issues while weighing the pros and cons and inevitably curbing some degree of freedom.
Personally, I question the efficiency of the VPN restriction. I hold a different perspective: implementing a one or two-year, 100-500-edit registration threshold for automatic exemption of registered users seems reasonable.
Nevertheless, it's important to recognize that nothing is inherently necessary; these are always political and not technical choices.
It's not just vandals ruining it; it's also the approach taken. By granting trolls immense power to disrupt everyone's activities, you fuel their mischief. Thus, every time these extreme measures are enforced and standardized, they inevitably lead to wasted time and endless debates about the status quo, and regular users pay a price. Not hypothetically, for real.... we know. Whoever prioritizes the pursuit of trolls and vandals over the work of regular users, de facto feeds the troll.
It's important to clarify: as seasoned users, many of us have kinda learned to navigate this "mess" and endure it... similar issues have been grappled with for years, Commons management shows little sign of improvement and we just don't care anymore.
However, for those who haven't mastered it or are stuck in some nationwide quagmire as this one, suggesting VPNs as a solution is impractical—unless you anticipate tens of thousands of users from a country with millions of inhabitants to individually request IP exemptions. It's evident that the log of such a system would not be sustainable.
I remain skeptical that an alternative solution will be implemented, given the likelihood that the approach will mirror that of the VPN case or other instances—utilizing massive and/or indefinite self-referential strict measures that are seldom evaluated on the long term with some metrics.
Il martedì 19 marzo 2024 alle ore 20:24:15 CET, Neurodivergent Netizen idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com ha scritto:
Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org Unfortunately, there’s a history of an overwhelming amount of vandals using VPNs to, well, vandalize Wikipedia, hence the block on known VPN and the bureaucracy surrounding them. If the block is removed, it’ll quite likely become a problem again. It really is a situation of people behaving poorly ruining it for everyone.
From, I dream of horses She/her
On Mar 19, 2024, at 12:17 PM, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l < wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
That doesn't seem logical or fair. If a user is registered and not already blocked, the IPs they are using shouldn't matter at all. Personally, I've never used a VPN before I got it this way (even living in the PRC), but I understand that some people might need to do so for privacy reasons. So, this restriction should be removed. Registered users should have the freedom to access the platform how they want. If there's an issue with a specific user, it's more appropriate to block their username rather than restricting their access when logged in based on IP addresses. Adding more bureaucracy isn't the solution if there isn't a problem to begin with.
In any case, nothing will probably change. But please don't say that VPN is a solution. People have already enough problems that adding more and more passages.
Il martedì 19 marzo 2024 alle ore 19:51:42 CET, Neurodivergent Netizen idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com ha scritto:
A few years ago, I acquired a VPN as part of an antivirus package. However, when I tried to use it for other services, I encountered an unexpected issue switching on wiki platforms: despite being there as a registered user, I found myself unable to edit them.
So how can VPN be a solution?
Right, you would’ve had to use IP block exemption, which would require some level of trust from the community that you aren’t a vandal or other blocked user trying to circumspect said block.
From, I dream of horses She/her
On Mar 19, 2024, at 11:23 AM, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l < wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
Why is there so much discussion about using VPNs as a solution? A few years ago, I acquired a VPN as part of an antivirus package. However, when I tried to use it for other services, I encountered an unexpected issue switching on wiki platforms: despite being there as a registered user, I found myself unable to edit them.
So how can VPN be a solution?
A.
Il martedì 19 marzo 2024 alle ore 18:17:52 CET, Saqib Qayyum < saqibqayyumc@gmail.com> ha scritto:
Hello Mr James
Certainly, using a VPN is a workaround, but it's worth noting that obtaining an IP block exemption is still necessary to edit Commons, and this is not always feasible for all users. Many may not even be aware of its existence. For instance, I couldn't edit Commons since October 2020 until I discovered the option for IP ban exemption. .
And because of this, contributions to Commons from Pakistan have significantly dwindled. For instance, I recall organizing Wiki Loves Monuments Pakistan from 2014, where we used to receive thousands of images annually. However, in recent years, the number of uploads has drastically declined, with only a maximum of 100 photos being uploaded each year. This trend underscores the challenges Pakistani users face in accessing and contributing to the site. -- Saqib Qayyum
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:55 PM James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com wrote:
Can you not just use a VPN?
James
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:29 PM Saqib Qayyum saqibqayyumc@gmail.com wrote:
TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:
I am writing to you as a concerned volunteer from Pakistan regarding a critical issue that has been persisting for several years now. Despite multiple attempts to communicate this matter to members of the WMF's communication team, there has been a disappointing lack of response or acknowledgment.
For the past several years, Commons has been blocked in Pakistan. While Wikipedia was briefly blocked last year, the swift response from both Pakistani and international news media led to its unblocking. However, the blockade of Commons, being a less prominent site in comparison, has gone largely unnoticed.
Furthermore, several journalists I have spoken to have also expressed frustration over their attempts to reach out to WMF staff regarding this issue, only to receive no response.
I urge the WMF to prioritize this matter and take immediate action to address the ongoing blockage of Commons in Pakistan.
Thank you for your attention to this urgent matter.
Saqib Qayyum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Saqib _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
-- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
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Dear Mr. Stephen LaPorte
Thank you for commenting.
Recently, I have been in contact with several journalists who have expressed their interest in covering this issue and have been attempting to reach out to WMF for an official statement. but unfortunately, they have reported difficulty in obtaining any response from WMF despite their repeated efforts. As a result, they are unable to proceed with their stories without an official statement from WMF.
I wanted to inquire if we can expect a statement or a press release from WMF explicitly addressing the Commons blockage ? Providing clarity on this matter would not only assist journalists in their reporting but also help prioritize efforts to unblock the website.
-- Saqib Qayyum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Saqib
On Thu, Mar 21, 2024 at 10:23 PM Stephen LaPorte slaporte@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi all,
I am Stephen LaPorte, the General Counsel at the Foundation.
We have received reports that Wikimedia Commons has been partially inaccessible in Pakistan—depending on the user's Internet Service Provider—for multiple years, starting as early as 2021. My understanding is that it does not affect the display of images on Wikipedia, and it predates the blocking and unblocking https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2023/02/03/wikimedia-foundation-urges-pakistan-telecommunications-authority-to-restore-access-to-wikipedia-in-pakistan/ of Wikipedia in February 2023.
We have not received any formal notice or a recent legal demand related to Wikimedia Commons, so we do not know on what grounds the site is partially inaccessible or how many people have been affected since this started. Overall, traffic to Wikimedia Commons from Pakistan before 2020 is too low to establish a clear pattern that shows when this started or the extent of the disruption. All these factors have made understanding the situation difficult and require a balanced response, and we remain committed to knowledge access in the country.
After Yaroslav reported https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump/Archive/2023/07#Is_Wikimedia_Commons_blocked_in_Pakistan? not being able to access the site last year, we investigated further. We've shared information about this situation with other organizations that monitor internet censorship and advocate for internet freedom in Pakistan.
We believe that access to knowledge is a human right, and we oppose internet censorship in all forms. We believe that limiting access to projects like Wikimedia Commons deprives people of access to important historical and educational content and makes it more difficult for local volunteers to share their media with the world.
If you experience censorship of the Wikimedia projects, you are welcome to report this directly to the Wikimedia Foundation at answers@wikimedia.org and we can help route the question to the right technical experts within the Foundation.
Best, Stephen
On Wed, Mar 20, 2024 at 10:06 AM Yaroslav Blanter ymbalt@gmail.com wrote:
My understanding is that only Commons is currently blocked in Pakistan.
In July 2023, when I visited, I could (and did) edit Wikipedia and Wikivoyage in several languages, as well as Wikidata. To be honest I did not try Urdu Wikipedia, but I guess if it were blocked in Pakistan we would know this.
My impression from the communication with WMF I described earlier was that they learned about the Commons block from me. I might be wrong of course.
Best Yaroslav
On Wed, Mar 20, 2024 at 5:14 PM Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
Could someone please explicitly state which Wikimedia projects are blocked in Pakistan? This thread starts around the blocking of Commons, but information provided by James Heilman implies that (at least one point) ALL Wikimedia projects are blocked. So, to be clear, are Wikipedias also blocked? Other projects? Understanding the extent of the block will help the broader community to best assist our Pakistani colleagues in continuing to contribute, and for helping the broad Pakistani citizenship to access our work.
It may be helpful for someone from the WMF who is in a position to report to tell us exactly which projects are currently blocked, and whether or not any of the originally blocked projects have now had blocks lifted.
Risker/Anne
Risker/Anne
On Wed, 20 Mar 2024 at 11:21, Saqib Qayyum saqibqayyumc@gmail.com wrote:
I remember this statement was issued when Wikipedia was briefly blocked last year. -- Saqib Qayyum
On Wed, Mar 20, 2024 at 7:54 AM James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com wrote:
Here is the press release from Feb 3, 2023 from the WMF urging Pakistan to unblock Wikimedia Projects.
https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2023/02/03/wikimedia-foundation-urges-p...
Appears the reason has to do with religious content
https://netblocks.org/reports/wikipedia-restricted-in-pakistan-over-alleged-...
James
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 6:40 PM Neurodivergent Netizen < idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com> wrote:
IP block exemption is already automatically granted to admins, at least on the English Wikipedia; it’s rarely needed enough that further automatic exemption doesn’t really make sense. VPNs, typically costing money, aren’t an accessible workaround, anyways. Let’s redirect attention back to getting Commons unblocked.
From, I dream of horses She/her
On Mar 19, 2024, at 2:40 PM, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l < wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
It's intriguing (to me) to contemplate how the notion of restricting IP editing in specific circumstances is often viewed as a violation of principle, even when supported by examples or data, yet a restriction like requiring long-standing users to jump through hoops just to use a VPN for privacy—something standard nowadays—is considered necessary and acceptable. Both policies aim to address issues while weighing the pros and cons and inevitably curbing some degree of freedom.
Personally, I question the efficiency of the VPN restriction. I hold a different perspective: implementing a one or two-year, 100-500-edit registration threshold for automatic exemption of registered users seems reasonable.
Nevertheless, it's important to recognize that nothing is inherently necessary; these are always political and not technical choices.
It's not just vandals ruining it; it's also the approach taken. By granting trolls immense power to disrupt everyone's activities, you fuel their mischief. Thus, every time these extreme measures are enforced and standardized, they inevitably lead to wasted time and endless debates about the status quo, and regular users pay a price. Not hypothetically, for real.... we know. Whoever prioritizes the pursuit of trolls and vandals over the work of regular users, de facto feeds the troll.
It's important to clarify: as seasoned users, many of us have kinda learned to navigate this "mess" and endure it... similar issues have been grappled with for years, Commons management shows little sign of improvement and we just don't care anymore.
However, for those who haven't mastered it or are stuck in some nationwide quagmire as this one, suggesting VPNs as a solution is impractical—unless you anticipate tens of thousands of users from a country with millions of inhabitants to individually request IP exemptions. It's evident that the log of such a system would not be sustainable.
I remain skeptical that an alternative solution will be implemented, given the likelihood that the approach will mirror that of the VPN case or other instances—utilizing massive and/or indefinite self-referential strict measures that are seldom evaluated on the long term with some metrics.
Il martedì 19 marzo 2024 alle ore 20:24:15 CET, Neurodivergent Netizen idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com ha scritto:
Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org Unfortunately, there’s a history of an overwhelming amount of vandals using VPNs to, well, vandalize Wikipedia, hence the block on known VPN and the bureaucracy surrounding them. If the block is removed, it’ll quite likely become a problem again. It really is a situation of people behaving poorly ruining it for everyone.
From, I dream of horses She/her
On Mar 19, 2024, at 12:17 PM, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l < wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
That doesn't seem logical or fair. If a user is registered and not already blocked, the IPs they are using shouldn't matter at all. Personally, I've never used a VPN before I got it this way (even living in the PRC), but I understand that some people might need to do so for privacy reasons. So, this restriction should be removed. Registered users should have the freedom to access the platform how they want. If there's an issue with a specific user, it's more appropriate to block their username rather than restricting their access when logged in based on IP addresses. Adding more bureaucracy isn't the solution if there isn't a problem to begin with.
In any case, nothing will probably change. But please don't say that VPN is a solution. People have already enough problems that adding more and more passages.
Il martedì 19 marzo 2024 alle ore 19:51:42 CET, Neurodivergent Netizen idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com ha scritto:
A few years ago, I acquired a VPN as part of an antivirus package. However, when I tried to use it for other services, I encountered an unexpected issue switching on wiki platforms: despite being there as a registered user, I found myself unable to edit them.
So how can VPN be a solution?
Right, you would’ve had to use IP block exemption, which would require some level of trust from the community that you aren’t a vandal or other blocked user trying to circumspect said block.
From, I dream of horses She/her
On Mar 19, 2024, at 11:23 AM, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l < wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
Why is there so much discussion about using VPNs as a solution? A few years ago, I acquired a VPN as part of an antivirus package. However, when I tried to use it for other services, I encountered an unexpected issue switching on wiki platforms: despite being there as a registered user, I found myself unable to edit them.
So how can VPN be a solution?
A.
Il martedì 19 marzo 2024 alle ore 18:17:52 CET, Saqib Qayyum < saqibqayyumc@gmail.com> ha scritto:
Hello Mr James
Certainly, using a VPN is a workaround, but it's worth noting that obtaining an IP block exemption is still necessary to edit Commons, and this is not always feasible for all users. Many may not even be aware of its existence. For instance, I couldn't edit Commons since October 2020 until I discovered the option for IP ban exemption. .
And because of this, contributions to Commons from Pakistan have significantly dwindled. For instance, I recall organizing Wiki Loves Monuments Pakistan from 2014, where we used to receive thousands of images annually. However, in recent years, the number of uploads has drastically declined, with only a maximum of 100 photos being uploaded each year. This trend underscores the challenges Pakistani users face in accessing and contributing to the site. -- Saqib Qayyum
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:55 PM James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com wrote:
Can you not just use a VPN?
James
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:29 PM Saqib Qayyum saqibqayyumc@gmail.com wrote:
TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:
I am writing to you as a concerned volunteer from Pakistan regarding a critical issue that has been persisting for several years now. Despite multiple attempts to communicate this matter to members of the WMF's communication team, there has been a disappointing lack of response or acknowledgment.
For the past several years, Commons has been blocked in Pakistan. While Wikipedia was briefly blocked last year, the swift response from both Pakistani and international news media led to its unblocking. However, the blockade of Commons, being a less prominent site in comparison, has gone largely unnoticed.
Furthermore, several journalists I have spoken to have also expressed frustration over their attempts to reach out to WMF staff regarding this issue, only to receive no response.
I urge the WMF to prioritize this matter and take immediate action to address the ongoing blockage of Commons in Pakistan.
Thank you for your attention to this urgent matter.
Saqib Qayyum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Saqib _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
-- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
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-- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
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-- Stephen LaPorte (he/him/his) General Counsel Wikimedia Foundation
*NOTICE: This message may be confidential or legally privileged. If you have received it by accident, please delete it and let us know about the mistake. As an attorney for the Wikimedia Foundation, for legal and ethical reasons, I cannot give legal advice to, or serve as a lawyer for, community members, volunteers, or staff members in their personal capacity. For more on what this means, please see our legal disclaimer https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Legal_Disclaimer.* _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Dear Saqib,
If you receive press enquiries, you can ask journalists to email press@wikimedia.org and our external communications team will provide them with the relevant information. They don’t usually post statements on long-running issues like traffic disruptions unless there's more clarity on what is happening and why.
Thanks,
Benedict Udeh (he/him)
On Fri, Mar 22, 2024 at 12:16 PM Saqib Qayyum saqibqayyumc@gmail.com wrote:
Dear Mr. Stephen LaPorte
Thank you for commenting.
Recently, I have been in contact with several journalists who have expressed their interest in covering this issue and have been attempting to reach out to WMF for an official statement. but unfortunately, they have reported difficulty in obtaining any response from WMF despite their repeated efforts. As a result, they are unable to proceed with their stories without an official statement from WMF.
I wanted to inquire if we can expect a statement or a press release from WMF explicitly addressing the Commons blockage ? Providing clarity on this matter would not only assist journalists in their reporting but also help prioritize efforts to unblock the website.
-- Saqib Qayyum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Saqib
On Thu, Mar 21, 2024 at 10:23 PM Stephen LaPorte slaporte@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi all,
I am Stephen LaPorte, the General Counsel at the Foundation.
We have received reports that Wikimedia Commons has been partially inaccessible in Pakistan—depending on the user's Internet Service Provider—for multiple years, starting as early as 2021. My understanding is that it does not affect the display of images on Wikipedia, and it predates the blocking and unblocking https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2023/02/03/wikimedia-foundation-urges-pakistan-telecommunications-authority-to-restore-access-to-wikipedia-in-pakistan/ of Wikipedia in February 2023.
We have not received any formal notice or a recent legal demand related to Wikimedia Commons, so we do not know on what grounds the site is partially inaccessible or how many people have been affected since this started. Overall, traffic to Wikimedia Commons from Pakistan before 2020 is too low to establish a clear pattern that shows when this started or the extent of the disruption. All these factors have made understanding the situation difficult and require a balanced response, and we remain committed to knowledge access in the country.
After Yaroslav reported https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump/Archive/2023/07#Is_Wikimedia_Commons_blocked_in_Pakistan? not being able to access the site last year, we investigated further. We've shared information about this situation with other organizations that monitor internet censorship and advocate for internet freedom in Pakistan.
We believe that access to knowledge is a human right, and we oppose internet censorship in all forms. We believe that limiting access to projects like Wikimedia Commons deprives people of access to important historical and educational content and makes it more difficult for local volunteers to share their media with the world.
If you experience censorship of the Wikimedia projects, you are welcome to report this directly to the Wikimedia Foundation at < answers@wikimedia.org> and we can help route the question to the right technical experts within the Foundation.
Best, Stephen
On Wed, Mar 20, 2024 at 10:06 AM Yaroslav Blanter ymbalt@gmail.com wrote:
My understanding is that only Commons is currently blocked in Pakistan.
In July 2023, when I visited, I could (and did) edit Wikipedia and Wikivoyage in several languages, as well as Wikidata. To be honest I did not try Urdu Wikipedia, but I guess if it were blocked in Pakistan we would know this.
My impression from the communication with WMF I described earlier was that they learned about the Commons block from me. I might be wrong of course.
Best Yaroslav
On Wed, Mar 20, 2024 at 5:14 PM Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
Could someone please explicitly state which Wikimedia projects are blocked in Pakistan? This thread starts around the blocking of Commons, but information provided by James Heilman implies that (at least one point) ALL Wikimedia projects are blocked. So, to be clear, are Wikipedias also blocked? Other projects? Understanding the extent of the block will help the broader community to best assist our Pakistani colleagues in continuing to contribute, and for helping the broad Pakistani citizenship to access our work.
It may be helpful for someone from the WMF who is in a position to report to tell us exactly which projects are currently blocked, and whether or not any of the originally blocked projects have now had blocks lifted.
Risker/Anne
Risker/Anne
On Wed, 20 Mar 2024 at 11:21, Saqib Qayyum saqibqayyumc@gmail.com wrote:
I remember this statement was issued when Wikipedia was briefly blocked last year. -- Saqib Qayyum
On Wed, Mar 20, 2024 at 7:54 AM James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com wrote:
Here is the press release from Feb 3, 2023 from the WMF urging Pakistan to unblock Wikimedia Projects.
https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2023/02/03/wikimedia-foundation-urges-p...
Appears the reason has to do with religious content
https://netblocks.org/reports/wikipedia-restricted-in-pakistan-over-alleged-...
James
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 6:40 PM Neurodivergent Netizen < idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com> wrote:
> IP block exemption is already automatically granted to admins, at > least on the English Wikipedia; it’s rarely needed enough that further > automatic exemption doesn’t really make sense. VPNs, typically costing > money, aren’t an accessible workaround, anyways. Let’s redirect attention > back to getting Commons unblocked. > > From, > I dream of horses > She/her > > > > > > On Mar 19, 2024, at 2:40 PM, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l < > wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote: > > > It's intriguing (to me) to contemplate how the notion of restricting > IP editing in specific circumstances is often viewed as a violation of > principle, even when supported by examples or data, yet a restriction like > requiring long-standing users to jump through hoops just to use a VPN for > privacy—something standard nowadays—is considered necessary and acceptable. > Both policies aim to address issues while weighing the pros and cons and > inevitably curbing some degree of freedom. > > Personally, I question the efficiency of the VPN restriction. I hold > a different perspective: implementing a one or two-year, 100-500-edit > registration threshold for automatic exemption of registered users seems > reasonable. > > Nevertheless, it's important to recognize that nothing is inherently > necessary; these are always political and not technical choices. > > It's not just vandals ruining it; it's also the approach taken. By > granting trolls immense power to disrupt everyone's activities, you fuel > their mischief. Thus, every time these extreme measures are enforced and > standardized, they inevitably lead to wasted time and endless debates about > the status quo, and regular users pay a price. Not hypothetically, for > real.... we know. Whoever prioritizes the pursuit of trolls and vandals > over the work of regular users, de facto feeds the troll. > > It's important to clarify: as seasoned users, many of us have kinda > learned to navigate this "mess" and endure it... similar issues > have been grappled with for years, Commons management shows little sign of > improvement and we just don't care anymore. > > However, for those who haven't mastered it or are stuck in some > nationwide quagmire as this one, suggesting VPNs as a solution is > impractical—unless you anticipate tens of thousands of users from a country > with millions of inhabitants to individually request IP exemptions. It's > evident that the log of such a system would not be sustainable. > > I remain skeptical that an alternative solution will be implemented, > given the likelihood that the approach will mirror that of the VPN case or > other instances—utilizing massive and/or indefinite self-referential strict > measures that are seldom evaluated on the long term with some metrics. > > > > Il martedì 19 marzo 2024 alle ore 20:24:15 CET, Neurodivergent > Netizen idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com ha scritto: > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, > guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... > To unsubscribe send an email to > wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org > Unfortunately, there’s a history of an overwhelming amount of > vandals using VPNs to, well, vandalize Wikipedia, hence the block on known > VPN and the bureaucracy surrounding them. If the block is removed, it’ll > quite likely become a problem again. It really is a situation of people > behaving poorly ruining it for everyone. > > From, > I dream of horses > She/her > > > > > > On Mar 19, 2024, at 12:17 PM, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l < > wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote: > > > > That doesn't seem logical or fair. If a user is registered and not > already blocked, the IPs they are using shouldn't matter at all. > Personally, I've never used a VPN before I got it this way (even > living in the PRC), but I understand that some people might need to do so > for privacy reasons. So, this restriction should be removed. Registered > users should have the freedom to access the platform how they want. If > there's an issue with a specific user, it's more appropriate to block their > username rather than restricting their access when logged in based on IP > addresses. Adding more bureaucracy isn't the solution if there isn't a > problem to begin with. > > In any case, nothing will probably change. But please don't say that > VPN is a solution. People have already enough problems that adding more and > more passages. > > Il martedì 19 marzo 2024 alle ore 19:51:42 CET, Neurodivergent > Netizen idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com ha scritto: > > > A few years ago, I acquired a VPN as part of an antivirus package. > However, when I tried to use it for other services, I encountered an > unexpected issue switching on wiki platforms: despite being there as a > registered user, I found myself unable to edit them. > > So how can VPN be a solution? > > > Right, you would’ve had to use IP block exemption, which would > require some level of trust from the community that you aren’t a vandal or > other blocked user trying to circumspect said block. > > From, > I dream of horses > She/her > > > > > > On Mar 19, 2024, at 11:23 AM, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l < > wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote: > > Why is there so much discussion about using VPNs as a solution? A > few years ago, I acquired a VPN as part of an antivirus package. However, > when I tried to use it for other services, I encountered an unexpected > issue switching on wiki platforms: despite being there as a registered > user, I found myself unable to edit them. > > So how can VPN be a solution? > > A. > > Il martedì 19 marzo 2024 alle ore 18:17:52 CET, Saqib Qayyum < > saqibqayyumc@gmail.com> ha scritto: > > > Hello Mr James > > Certainly, using a VPN is a workaround, but it's worth noting that > obtaining an IP block exemption is still necessary to edit Commons, and > this is not always feasible for all users. Many may not even be aware of > its existence. For instance, I couldn't edit Commons since October 2020 > until I discovered the option for IP ban exemption. . > > And because of this, contributions to Commons from Pakistan have > significantly dwindled. For instance, I recall organizing Wiki Loves > Monuments Pakistan from 2014, where we used to receive thousands of images > annually. However, in recent years, the number of uploads has drastically > declined, with only a maximum of 100 photos being uploaded each year. This > trend underscores the challenges Pakistani users face in accessing and > contributing to the site. > -- > Saqib Qayyum > > > On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:55 PM James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com > wrote: > > Can you not just use a VPN? > > James > > On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:29 PM Saqib Qayyum saqibqayyumc@gmail.com > wrote: > > TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN: > > I am writing to you as a concerned volunteer from Pakistan regarding > a critical issue that has been persisting for several years now. Despite > multiple attempts to communicate this matter to members of the WMF's > communication team, there has been a disappointing lack of response or > acknowledgment. > > For the past several years, Commons has been blocked in Pakistan. > While Wikipedia was briefly blocked last year, the swift response from both > Pakistani and international news media led to its unblocking. However, the > blockade of Commons, being a less prominent site in comparison, has gone > largely unnoticed. > > Furthermore, several journalists I have spoken to have also > expressed frustration over their attempts to reach out to WMF staff > regarding this issue, only to receive no response. > > I urge the WMF to prioritize this matter and take immediate action > to address the ongoing blockage of Commons in Pakistan. > > Thank you for your attention to this urgent matter. > -- > Saqib Qayyum > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Saqib > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, > guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... > To unsubscribe send an email to > wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > -- > James Heilman > MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, > guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... > To unsubscribe send an email to > wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, > guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... > > To unsubscribe send an email to > wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, > guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... > To unsubscribe send an email to > wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, > guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... > To unsubscribe send an email to > wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, > guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... > To unsubscribe send an email to > wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, > guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... > To unsubscribe send an email to > wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, > guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... > To unsubscribe send an email to > wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
-- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
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-- Stephen LaPorte (he/him/his) General Counsel Wikimedia Foundation
*NOTICE: This message may be confidential or legally privileged. If you have received it by accident, please delete it and let us know about the mistake. As an attorney for the Wikimedia Foundation, for legal and ethical reasons, I cannot give legal advice to, or serve as a lawyer for, community members, volunteers, or staff members in their personal capacity. For more on what this means, please see our legal disclaimer https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Legal_Disclaimer.* _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
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Before building on top of this, I wanna shortly appreciate the resilience of the Pakistani community, who made it to the 21st position of the WLM 2023 international winner list despite these challenges and lack of support.
So, where do we stand now? Two takeaways from Stephen's statement:
- foundation vaguely understands the situation in Pakistan - for support, Pakistani wikimedia folks need to email another foundation team, Benedict added another new email address to the list. I hope other people have also something to add to the list. We will have a beautiful long list at the end and we may need crm solutions to keep track of all the communication.
Gratitude to to Mr. Stephen LaPorte for taking the time to give the statement, we are now confident that our emails to are read by the foundation employees if not answered. Would you kindly forward this mail to the relevant foundation team directly and get back to us with the respond?
Please answer to the following questions precisely, filtering corporate buzzwords and unnecessary fleshing out of the message.
- Is responding to any wikimedia foundation hosted project's block in a country included in the foundation's scope? If no, this thread is done. - If yes, to what extent? what is the specific workflow for that? What specific actions are expected from the community and the foundation in that process? - Why do we keep being referred from one foundation team to another when no one bothers to reply at all?
Regards, WikiInsaf Insaf jarur milegi
On Thursday, March 21st, 2024 at 11:22 PM, Stephen LaPorte slaporte@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi all,
I am Stephen LaPorte, the General Counsel at the Foundation.
We have received reports that Wikimedia Commons has been partially inaccessible in Pakistan—depending on the user's Internet Service Provider—for multiple years, starting as early as 2021. My understanding is that it does not affect the display of images on Wikipedia, and it predates the [blocking and unblocking](https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2023/02/03/wikimedia-foundation-urges-p...) of Wikipedia in February 2023.
We have not received any formal notice or a recent legal demand related to Wikimedia Commons, so we do not know on what grounds the site is partially inaccessible or how many people have been affected since this started. Overall, traffic to Wikimedia Commons from Pakistan before 2020 is too low to establish a clear pattern that shows when this started or the extent of the disruption. All these factors have made understanding the situation difficult and require a balanced response, and we remain committed to knowledge access in the country.
After [Yaroslav reported](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump/Archive/2023/07#Is_W...) not being able to access the site last year, we investigated further. We've shared information about this situation with other organizations that monitor internet censorship and advocate for internet freedom in Pakistan.
We believe that access to knowledge is a human right, and we oppose internet censorship in all forms. We believe that limiting access to projects like Wikimedia Commons deprives people of access to important historical and educational content and makes it more difficult for local volunteers to share their media with the world.
If you experience censorship of the Wikimedia projects, you are welcome to report this directly to the Wikimedia Foundation at answers@wikimedia.org and we can help route the question to the right technical experts within the Foundation.
Best, Stephen
On Wed, Mar 20, 2024 at 10:06 AM Yaroslav Blanter ymbalt@gmail.com wrote:
My understanding is that only Commons is currently blocked in Pakistan.
In July 2023, when I visited, I could (and did) edit Wikipedia and Wikivoyage in several languages, as well as Wikidata. To be honest I did not try Urdu Wikipedia, but I guess if it were blocked in Pakistan we would know this.
My impression from the communication with WMF I described earlier was that they learned about the Commons block from me. I might be wrong of course.
Best Yaroslav
On Wed, Mar 20, 2024 at 5:14 PM Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
Could someone please explicitly state which Wikimedia projects are blocked in Pakistan? This thread starts around the blocking of Commons, but information provided by James Heilman implies that (at least one point) ALL Wikimedia projects are blocked. So, to be clear, are Wikipedias also blocked? Other projects? Understanding the extent of the block will help the broader community to best assist our Pakistani colleagues in continuing to contribute, and for helping the broad Pakistani citizenship to access our work.
It may be helpful for someone from the WMF who is in a position to report to tell us exactly which projects are currently blocked, and whether or not any of the originally blocked projects have now had blocks lifted.
Risker/Anne
Risker/Anne
On Wed, 20 Mar 2024 at 11:21, Saqib Qayyum saqibqayyumc@gmail.com wrote:
I remember this statement was issued when Wikipedia was briefly blocked last year.
Saqib Qayyum
On Wed, Mar 20, 2024 at 7:54 AM James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com wrote:
Here is the press release from Feb 3, 2023 from the WMF urging Pakistan to unblock Wikimedia Projects.
https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2023/02/03/wikimedia-foundation-urges-p...
Appears the reason has to do with religious content
https://netblocks.org/reports/wikipedia-restricted-in-pakistan-over-alleged-...
James
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 6:40 PM Neurodivergent Netizen idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com wrote:
IP block exemption is already automatically granted to admins, at least on the English Wikipedia; it’s rarely needed enough that further automatic exemption doesn’t really make sense. VPNs, typically costing money, aren’t an accessible workaround, anyways. Let’s redirect attention back to getting Commons unblocked.
From, I dream of horses She/her
> On Mar 19, 2024, at 2:40 PM, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org wrote: > > It's intriguing (to me) to contemplate how the notion of restricting IP editing in specific circumstances is often viewed as a violation of principle, even when supported by examples or data, yet a restriction like requiring long-standing users to jump through hoops just to use a VPN for privacy—something standard nowadays—is considered necessary and acceptable. Both policies aim to address issues while weighing the pros and cons and inevitably curbing some degree of freedom. > > Personally, I question the efficiency of the VPN restriction. I hold a different perspective: implementing a one or two-year, 100-500-edit registration threshold for automatic exemption of registered users seems reasonable. > > Nevertheless, it's important to recognize that nothing is inherently necessary; these are always political and not technical choices. > > It's not just vandals ruining it; it's also the approach taken. By granting trolls immense power to disrupt everyone's activities, you fuel their mischief. Thus, every time these extreme measures are enforced and standardized, they inevitably lead to wasted time and endless debates about the status quo, and regular users pay a price. Not hypothetically, for real.... we know. Whoever prioritizes the pursuit of trolls and vandals over the work of regular users, de facto feeds the troll. > > It's important to clarify: as seasoned users, many of us have kinda learned to navigate this "mess" and endure it... similar issues have been grappled with for years, Commons management shows little sign of improvement and we just don't care anymore. > > However, for those who haven't mastered it or are stuck in some nationwide quagmire as this one, suggesting VPNs as a solution is impractical—unless you anticipate tens of thousands of users from a country with millions of inhabitants to individually request IP exemptions. It's evident that the log of such a system would not be sustainable. > > I remain skeptical that an alternative solution will be implemented, given the likelihood that the approach will mirror that of the VPN case or other instances—utilizing massive and/or indefinite self-referential strict measures that are seldom evaluated on the long term with some metrics. > > Il martedì 19 marzo 2024 alle ore 20:24:15 CET, Neurodivergent Netizen idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com ha scritto: > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... > To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org > Unfortunately, there’s a history of an overwhelming amount of vandals using VPNs to, well, vandalize Wikipedia, hence the block on known VPN and the bureaucracy surrounding them. If the block is removed, it’ll quite likely become a problem again. It really is a situation of people behaving poorly ruining it for everyone. > > From, > I dream of horses > She/her > >> On Mar 19, 2024, at 12:17 PM, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org wrote: >> >> That doesn't seem logical or fair. If a user is registered and not already blocked, the IPs they are using shouldn't matter at all. >> >> Personally, I've never used a VPN before I got it this way (even living in the PRC), but I understand that some people might need to do so for privacy reasons. So, this restriction should be removed. Registered users should have the freedom to access the platform how they want. If there's an issue with a specific user, it's more appropriate to block their username rather than restricting their access when logged in based on IP addresses. Adding more bureaucracy isn't the solution if there isn't a problem to begin with. >> >> In any case, nothing will probably change. But please don't say that VPN is a solution. People have already enough problems that adding more and more passages. >> >> Il martedì 19 marzo 2024 alle ore 19:51:42 CET, Neurodivergent Netizen idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com ha scritto: >> >>> A few years ago, I acquired a VPN as part of an antivirus package. However, when I tried to use it for other services, I encountered an unexpected issue switching on wiki platforms: despite being there as a registered user, I found myself unable to edit them. >>> >>> So how can VPN be a solution? >> >> Right, you would’ve had to use IP block exemption, which would require some level of trust from the community that you aren’t a vandal or other blocked user trying to circumspect said block. >> >> From, >> I dream of horses >> She/her >> >>> On Mar 19, 2024, at 11:23 AM, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org wrote: >>> >>> Why is there so much discussion about using VPNs as a solution? A few years ago, I acquired a VPN as part of an antivirus package. However, when I tried to use it for other services, I encountered an unexpected issue switching on wiki platforms: despite being there as a registered user, I found myself unable to edit them. >>> >>> So how can VPN be a solution? >>> >>> A. >>> >>> Il martedì 19 marzo 2024 alle ore 18:17:52 CET, Saqib Qayyum saqibqayyumc@gmail.com ha scritto: >>> >>> Hello Mr James >>> >>> Certainly, using a VPN is a workaround, but it's worth noting that obtaining an IP block exemption is still necessary to edit Commons, and this is not always feasible for all users. Many may not even be aware of its existence. For instance, I couldn't edit Commons since October 2020 until I discovered the option for IP ban exemption. . >>> >>> And because of this, contributions to Commons from Pakistan have significantly dwindled. For instance, I recall organizing Wiki Loves Monuments Pakistan from 2014, where we used to receive thousands of images annually. However, in recent years, the number of uploads has drastically declined, with only a maximum of 100 photos being uploaded each year. This trend underscores the challenges Pakistani users face in accessing and contributing to the site. >>> -- >>> Saqib Qayyum >>> >>> On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:55 PM James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com wrote: >>> >>>> Can you not just use a VPN? >>>> >>>> James >>>> >>>> On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:29 PM Saqib Qayyum saqibqayyumc@gmail.com wrote: >>>> >>>>> TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN: >>>>> >>>>> I am writing to you as a concerned volunteer from Pakistan regarding a critical issue that has been persisting for several years now. Despite multiple attempts to communicate this matter to members of the WMF's communication team, there has been a disappointing lack of response or acknowledgment. >>>>> >>>>> For the past several years, Commons has been blocked in Pakistan. While Wikipedia was briefly blocked last year, the swift response from both Pakistani and international news media led to its unblocking. However, the blockade of Commons, being a less prominent site in comparison, has gone largely unnoticed. >>>>> >>>>> Furthermore, several journalists I have spoken to have also expressed frustration over their attempts to reach out to WMF staff regarding this issue, only to receive no response. >>>>> >>>>> I urge the WMF to prioritize this matter and take immediate action to address the ongoing blockage of Commons in Pakistan. >>>>> >>>>> Thank you for your attention to this urgent matter. >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> Saqib Qayyum >>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Saqib >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>>> Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... >>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> James Heilman >>>> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>> Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>> Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... >>> >>> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>> Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... >>> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... >> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... >> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... > To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
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Unfortunately a VPN is not a solution at the moment.
Because of interesting historical reasons, people using VPN or other "open proxies" cannot edit most Wikimedia projects, as default
- even if they are logged-in - even if they are autopatrolled - even if they are sysop (!) - ecc.
This is an interesting "feature" that will never change without RFC.
So no, unfortunately we are not ready to suggest a VPN since it does not immediately work, so you cannot immediately quit censorship or similar things, at least without additional on-wiki bureaucratic procedure.
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T309328
Not something I would propose to an entire nation, at the moment.
I also have no other ideas...
-boz
On Tue, 2024-03-19 at 22:03 +0530, James Heilman wrote:
Can you not just use a VPN?
Sysops can set an IP block exempt group for other users (including themselves) in their local wiki. The procedure is different in different wikis, but for example, in Finnish Wikipedia, you need to ask for it, and the admin will add you to the group if you have a reasonable reason, such as the user is using a VPN. Basically, everybody who has been asking for the IP block exempt flag is using it well.
However, VPNs are also commonly used to avoid blocking and masking problematic behavior patterns, including editing warring, ignoring other users, causing personal attacks, and hounding. So, it is not only about protecting the editor using a VPN but also about protecting other users from unsuitable behavior made through VPNs.
Br, -- Kimmo Virtanen, Zache
On Sun, Mar 24, 2024 at 2:39 PM Valerio Bozzolan via Wikimedia-l < wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
Unfortunately a VPN is not a solution at the moment.
Because of interesting historical reasons, people using VPN or other "open proxies" cannot edit most Wikimedia projects, as default
- even if they are logged-in
- even if they are autopatrolled
- even if they are sysop (!)
- ecc.
This is an interesting "feature" that will never change without RFC.
So no, unfortunately we are not ready to suggest a VPN since it does not immediately work, so you cannot immediately quit censorship or similar things, at least without additional on-wiki bureaucratic procedure.
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T309328
Not something I would propose to an entire nation, at the moment.
I also have no other ideas...
-boz
On Tue, 2024-03-19 at 22:03 +0530, James Heilman wrote:
Can you not just use a VPN?
Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
I have been to Pakistan in July and indeed discovered that Wikimedia Commons was blocked. I complained to the WMF (using the Village pump on Commons when I was back), they were apparently not familiar with the situation but investigated it and acknowledged that Commons is indeed blocked in Pakistan (or at least in some locations in Pakistan).
Best Yaroslav
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 4:59 PM Saqib Qayyum saqibqayyumc@gmail.com wrote:
TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:
I am writing to you as a concerned volunteer from Pakistan regarding a critical issue that has been persisting for several years now. Despite multiple attempts to communicate this matter to members of the WMF's communication team, there has been a disappointing lack of response or acknowledgment.
For the past several years, Commons has been blocked in Pakistan. While Wikipedia was briefly blocked last year, the swift response from both Pakistani and international news media led to its unblocking. However, the blockade of Commons, being a less prominent site in comparison, has gone largely unnoticed.
Furthermore, several journalists I have spoken to have also expressed frustration over their attempts to reach out to WMF staff regarding this issue, only to receive no response.
I urge the WMF to prioritize this matter and take immediate action to address the ongoing blockage of Commons in Pakistan.
Thank you for your attention to this urgent matter.
Saqib Qayyum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Saqib _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
OMG, how did I miss meeting both of you Yaroslav and Mr. James -- Saqib Qayyum
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 10:11 PM Yaroslav Blanter ymbalt@gmail.com wrote:
I have been to Pakistan in July and indeed discovered that Wikimedia Commons was blocked. I complained to the WMF (using the Village pump on Commons when I was back), they were apparently not familiar with the situation but investigated it and acknowledged that Commons is indeed blocked in Pakistan (or at least in some locations in Pakistan).
Best Yaroslav
On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 4:59 PM Saqib Qayyum saqibqayyumc@gmail.com wrote:
TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:
I am writing to you as a concerned volunteer from Pakistan regarding a critical issue that has been persisting for several years now. Despite multiple attempts to communicate this matter to members of the WMF's communication team, there has been a disappointing lack of response or acknowledgment.
For the past several years, Commons has been blocked in Pakistan. While Wikipedia was briefly blocked last year, the swift response from both Pakistani and international news media led to its unblocking. However, the blockade of Commons, being a less prominent site in comparison, has gone largely unnoticed.
Furthermore, several journalists I have spoken to have also expressed frustration over their attempts to reach out to WMF staff regarding this issue, only to receive no response.
I urge the WMF to prioritize this matter and take immediate action to address the ongoing blockage of Commons in Pakistan.
Thank you for your attention to this urgent matter.
Saqib Qayyum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Saqib _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
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