Hello,
I'm wondering, is there a policy for OTRS agents saying that they can't make info send to OTRS public?
On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 3:40 PM, Huib Laurens sterkebak@gmail.com wrote:
I'm wondering, is there a policy for OTRS agents saying that they can't make info send to OTRS public?
Yes, information sent to OTRS should be treated as non-public information that should not be shared under pretty much all circumstances.
Okay,
Than we have a problem here,
User Silverspoon publiced a e-mail I send to OTRS in a channel.
This e-mail (http://demo.wickedway.nl/temp/SS%20temp.jpg) is a e-mail I sended to OTRS to release content. This e-mail was paste on pastebin to discuss in a public IRC channel ( http://demo.wickedway.nl/temp/ss%20temp2.jpg),
Silverspoon told me he had the information from user:FreakyFries. I tried to make a complaint by Guillom, the OTRS admin and he says he doesn't give a fuck. (http://demo.wickedway.nl/temp/ss%20temp3.jpg)
At this moment I believe my privacy has been abbused by linking me to a website in a private channel, I would like to see what the foundation thinks about this since the person in charge thinks its perfectly normal to publish private e-mails.
Best,
Huib
And you complain about the violation of your privacy posting the private mail in a public list? _____ *Béria Lima* http://wikimedia.pt/ (351) 925 171 484
*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.***
2011/6/2 Huib Laurens sterkebak@gmail.com
Okay,
Than we have a problem here,
User Silverspoon publiced a e-mail I send to OTRS in a channel.
This e-mail (http://demo.wickedway.nl/temp/SS%20temp.jpg) is a e-mail I sended to OTRS to release content. This e-mail was paste on pastebin to discuss in a public IRC channel ( http://demo.wickedway.nl/temp/ss%20temp2.jpg),
Silverspoon told me he had the information from user:FreakyFries. I tried to make a complaint by Guillom, the OTRS admin and he says he doesn't give a fuck. (http://demo.wickedway.nl/temp/ss%20temp3.jpg)
At this moment I believe my privacy has been abbused by linking me to a website in a private channel, I would like to see what the foundation thinks about this since the person in charge thinks its perfectly normal to publish private e-mails.
Best,
Huib _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
A screenshot SilverSpoon placed online about this:
Again, if you are complaining about a violation of your privacy don't post private info in a public list. _____ *Béria Lima* http://wikimedia.pt/ (351) 925 171 484
*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.***
2011/6/2 Huib Laurens sterkebak@gmail.com
A screenshot SilverSpoon placed online about this:
http://img815.imageshack.us/img815/3260/10minutes.png _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
I'm complaining here because the OTRS Admin doesn't give a fuck. So there is a option to leave it and let it go, or come to here,.
he is not the only adm in the world Huib. If you are so troubled about that, send a mail to OTRS adms (in plural) in private.
Make the private data public here does not help your case. _____ *Béria Lima* http://wikimedia.pt/ (351) 925 171 484
*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.***
2011/6/2 Huib Laurens sterkebak@gmail.com
I'm complaining here because the OTRS Admin doesn't give a fuck. So there is a option to leave it and let it go, or come to here,. _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Hi there,
I believe all data sent to OTRS is covered by the Wikimedia Foundation privacy policy. It should be treated as sensitive, however, by posting to this publicly read and archived mailing list, it seems that the data revealed was not sensitive. I agree that this is unacceptable behavior for OTRS agents.
You can ask for this thread to be removed from the mailing list history by a list admin. I've also forwarded this to the Wikimedia Foundation legal department as they will probably be interested in this.
Mono
*My response follows your message below:*
On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 1:01 PM, Huib Laurens sterkebak@gmail.com wrote:
Okay,
Than we have a problem here,
User Silverspoon publiced a e-mail I send to OTRS in a channel.
This e-mail (http://demo.wickedway.nl/temp/SS%20temp.jpg) is a e-mail I sended to OTRS to release content. This e-mail was paste on pastebin to discuss in a public IRC channel ( http://demo.wickedway.nl/temp/ss%20temp2.jpg),
Silverspoon told me he had the information from user:FreakyFries. I tried to make a complaint by Guillom, the OTRS admin and he says he doesn't give a fuck. (http://demo.wickedway.nl/temp/ss%20temp3.jpg)
At this moment I believe my privacy has been abbused by linking me to a website in a private channel, I would like to see what the foundation thinks about this since the person in charge thinks its perfectly normal to publish private e-mails.
Best,
Huib _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
New problem: Silverspoon in not an OTRS member. So he don't have access to OTRS mails. _____ *Béria Lima* http://wikimedia.pt/ (351) 925 171 484
*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.***
2011/6/2 Mono mium monomium@gmail.com
Hi there,
I believe all data sent to OTRS is covered by the Wikimedia Foundation privacy policy. It should be treated as sensitive, however, by posting to this publicly read and archived mailing list, it seems that the data revealed was not sensitive. I agree that this is unacceptable behavior for OTRS agents.
You can ask for this thread to be removed from the mailing list history by a list admin. I've also forwarded this to the Wikimedia Foundation legal department as they will probably be interested in this.
Mono
*My response follows your message below:*
On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 1:01 PM, Huib Laurens sterkebak@gmail.com wrote:
Okay,
Than we have a problem here,
User Silverspoon publiced a e-mail I send to OTRS in a channel.
This e-mail (http://demo.wickedway.nl/temp/SS%20temp.jpg) is a e-mail I sended to OTRS to release content. This e-mail was paste on pastebin to discuss in a public IRC channel ( http://demo.wickedway.nl/temp/ss%20temp2.jpg),
Silverspoon told me he had the information from user:FreakyFries. I tried to make a complaint by Guillom, the OTRS admin and he says he doesn't give a fuck. (http://demo.wickedway.nl/temp/ss%20temp3.jpg)
At this moment I believe my privacy has been abbused by linking me to a website in a private channel, I would like to see what the foundation thinks about this since the person in charge thinks its perfectly normal to publish private e-mails.
Best,
Huib _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 4:44 PM, Béria Lima berialima@gmail.com wrote:
New problem: Silverspoon in not an OTRS member. So he don't have access to OTRS mails. _____ *Béria Lima*
In the original e-mail, Huib notes the information was provided to Silverspoon by another user. Also, I think it's wrong to dismiss Huib's concerns about the publication of his OTRS request simply because he provided proof of the disclosure when complaining about it.
Nathan
Hello,
Its a fact that this is the second time this happens, when you take it up to the admins nothing will happen. Because I think this is not something that should go away I take my loss and make this a public descussion. Otherwhise nothing will happen again.
Its also a fact freakyfries a user with OTRS access says he told SilverSpoon about it, and I guess that there is a log with everybody that read the ticket.
The privacy policy does not preclude releasing private emails, and even writes in specific exceptions. When raised on en.wiki in relation to releasing CheckUser information (in that case linking an IP to an account) I thought the response there said it best; that not linking IP's to accounts was accepted convention, but nothing precluded a CheckUser using good judgement with the data.
With that said I think a stricter view is taken over OTRS mails.
Huib's complaints should not be dismissed at all; Beria has a point (though I would not have addressed it they way he has done so :S) in that this is best dealt with privately.
Contacting the right person to deal with this is key, though. I have dug through the OTRS pages at Meta and nothing leaps out as "a place to raise issues".
Tom
On 2 June 2011 21:50, Huib Laurens sterkebak@gmail.com wrote:
Hello,
Its a fact that this is the second time this happens, when you take it up to the admins nothing will happen. Because I think this is not something that should go away I take my loss and make this a public descussion. Otherwhise nothing will happen again.
Its also a fact freakyfries a user with OTRS access says he told SilverSpoon about it, and I guess that there is a log with everybody that read the ticket.
-- Kind regards,
Huib Laurens WickedWay.nl
Webhosting the wicked way. _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 1:58 PM, Thomas Morton morton.thomas@googlemail.com wrote:
The privacy policy does not preclude releasing private emails, and even writes in specific exceptions. When raised on en.wiki in relation to releasing CheckUser information (in that case linking an IP to an account) I thought the response there said it best; that not linking IP's to accounts was accepted convention, but nothing precluded a CheckUser using good judgement with the data.
With that said I think a stricter view is taken over OTRS mails.
Huib's complaints should not be dismissed at all; Beria has a point (though I would not have addressed it they way he has done so :S) in that this is best dealt with privately.
Contacting the right person to deal with this is key, though. I have dug through the OTRS pages at Meta and nothing leaps out as "a place to raise issues".
Tom
On 2 June 2011 21:50, Huib Laurens sterkebak@gmail.com wrote:
Hello,
Its a fact that this is the second time this happens, when you take it up to the admins nothing will happen. Because I think this is not something that should go away I take my loss and make this a public descussion. Otherwhise nothing will happen again.
Its also a fact freakyfries a user with OTRS access says he told SilverSpoon about it, and I guess that there is a log with everybody that read the ticket.
-- Kind regards,
Huib Laurens WickedWay.nl
Webhosting the wicked way.
An appropriate solution is for any of the OTRS people on this list to take it up on the OTRS mailing list.
I am a mostly inactive OTRS member, but I have (or had) tool access and am on the mailing list. I will raise the question on the mailing list.
The OTRS internal mailing list is members-only, but I will forward specific complaints or comments related to this incident to that list if requested. Please email them directly to me and make sure it's clear that you're asking for it to go to the ORTS list for discussion / followup there.
Thomas,
Who is the right person because it is a fact that a problem should be told to the OTRS admins, after I did that he told me that it was my own problem. So if there is somebody I should bring it up to now I would like to know.
This doesn't change the fact that I believe that SilverSpoon and the user giving him the OTRS information damaged the privacy for both me and my client, when we try to make all website content aivable under a free license we should be able to trust the Foundation and his volunteers. This trust is broken, There was no reason what so ever that SilverSpoon needed to know what was in the ticket.
I would like to know, will the foundation takes this serieus? Cuz this is the second time for me, how many e-mails have been publiced also?
Best,
Huib
On 2 June 2011 16:01, Huib Laurens sterkebak@gmail.com wrote:
Okay,
Than we have a problem here,
User Silverspoon publiced a e-mail I send to OTRS in a channel.
This e-mail (http://demo.wickedway.nl/temp/SS%20temp.jpg) is a e-mail I sended to OTRS to release content. This e-mail was paste on pastebin to discuss in a public IRC channel ( http://demo.wickedway.nl/temp/ss%20temp2.jpg),
Silverspoon told me he had the information from user:FreakyFries. I tried to make a complaint by Guillom, the OTRS admin and he says he doesn't give a fuck. (http://demo.wickedway.nl/temp/ss%20temp3.jpg)
At this moment I believe my privacy has been abbused by linking me to a website in a private channel, I would like to see what the foundation thinks about this since the person in charge thinks its perfectly normal to publish private e-mails.
Without actually reading the pastebins, it occurs to me that there are certain exemptions built into the privacy policy: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Privacy_policy#Access_to_and_release_of_...
Specifically, I would wonder if exemptions 3 and 6 are potentially germane to this situation.
Risker/Anne
On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 4:01 PM, Huib Laurens sterkebak@gmail.com wrote:
User Silverspoon publiced a e-mail I send to OTRS in a channel.
This e-mail (http://demo.wickedway.nl/temp/SS%20temp.jpg) is a e-mail I sended to OTRS to release content. This e-mail was paste on pastebin to discuss in a public IRC channel ( http://demo.wickedway.nl/temp/ss%20temp2.jpg),
Silverspoon told me he had the information from user:FreakyFries. I tried to make a complaint by Guillom, the OTRS admin and he says he doesn't give a fuck. (http://demo.wickedway.nl/temp/ss%20temp3.jpg)
At this moment I believe my privacy has been abbused by linking me to a website in a private channel, I would like to see what the foundation thinks about this since the person in charge thinks its perfectly normal to publish private e-mails.
Knowing more about the specifics of the situation, I think what the OTRS agent did was fine. The OTRS agent did not share any personally identifiable information; he just shared enough of the contents of the e-mail to help process the ticket effectively.
While we do not like to reveal ticket information for no reason (and like to keep the private information about the customer private), if we need to reveal parts of it to others in order to process it and get assistance, we can do that.
I don't see anything wrong with what happened here, and if you have further issues or details, please direct them privately to the rest of the OTRS admins at: volunteers-otrs [at] wikimedia.org OR otrs-admins [at] lists [dot] wikimedia [dot] org.
Thanks, Casey
Hi,
I don't get it, why isn't it a problem when we start posting OTRS tickets to pastebin.
The article was already deleted for more that 24 so there was no need to give the information to SilverSpoon. SilverSpoon wasn't active with the article so there was no need to share the information with him.
The OTRS agent told SilverSpoon that I (Huib) sended the e-mail, the e-mail is send from my business account and the OTRS agent linked a business e-mail to my private name, we didn't give any permission to link it to my account nor I give any permission to tell people I sended that e-mail. If I would liked to let everybody know that I sended it I would have signed it myself.
So if I understand correctly, its no problem that a OTRS agent posts a e-mail to PASTEBIN and give private personal information about who sended the ticket to non-involved users. And after that discuss the ticket including the pastebin link in a public channel. After that we got a respond from OTRS to our ticket saying that the file is deleted and placing there my personal name and making a attack towards my client.
Please tell me how this is not a problem, I believe my privacy is damaged, my client thinks her privacy is dameged because of the accusation made by the OTRS agent that she give me a task to promote her and that we are more that "just" friends.
Please explain why Wikimedia Privacy Policy accept this? And is the foundation taking steps towards the involved OTRS agents? One thing is sure, I work with lot of writers and we will not ever give permission to Wikimedia to use any of our content anymore.
Best,
Huib
Hello,
Almost a week later there has been no responds bij the Foundation nor a responds from the OTRS admins to this mailing nor in private.
At this moment I'm starting to believe the Foundation and the OTRS admin's doens't care at all about this. Are we really going to accept this kind of behavior from the people that communicate for Wikimedia to people and companies mailing to Wikimedia?
Best,
Huib Laurens
On 7 June 2011 11:17, Huib Laurens sterkebak@gmail.com wrote:
Hello,
Almost a week later there has been no responds bij the Foundation nor a responds from the OTRS admins to this mailing nor in private.
At this moment I'm starting to believe the Foundation and the OTRS admin's doens't care at all about this. Are we really going to accept this kind of behavior from the people that communicate for Wikimedia to people and companies mailing to Wikimedia?
Have you contacted the Ombudsman committee as I suggested? It's their job to handle complaints about possible breaches of the privacy policy. It's rare to get a satisfactory response to complaints on this mailing list. It's not really what it's here for.
Yes I did. There has been no responds from them so far.
2011/6/7, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com:
On 7 June 2011 11:17, Huib Laurens sterkebak@gmail.com wrote:
Hello,
Almost a week later there has been no responds bij the Foundation nor a responds from the OTRS admins to this mailing nor in private.
At this moment I'm starting to believe the Foundation and the OTRS admin's doens't care at all about this. Are we really going to accept this kind of behavior from the people that communicate for Wikimedia to people and companies mailing to Wikimedia?
Have you contacted the Ombudsman committee as I suggested? It's their job to handle complaints about possible breaches of the privacy policy. It's rare to get a satisfactory response to complaints on this mailing list. It's not really what it's here for.
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Probably because they are still looking at this case (or finishing others). After all, this is not the only claim of PP violation. _____ *Béria Lima* http://wikimedia.pt/(351) 925 171 484
*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. É isso o que estamos a fazer.***
2011/6/7 Huib Laurens sterkebak@gmail.com
Yes I did. There has been no responds from them so far.
2011/6/7, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com:
On 7 June 2011 11:17, Huib Laurens sterkebak@gmail.com wrote:
Hello,
Almost a week later there has been no responds bij the Foundation nor a responds from the OTRS admins to this mailing nor in private.
At this moment I'm starting to believe the Foundation and the OTRS
admin's
doens't care at all about this. Are we really going to accept this kind
of
behavior from the people that communicate for Wikimedia to people and companies mailing to Wikimedia?
Have you contacted the Ombudsman committee as I suggested? It's their job to handle complaints about possible breaches of the privacy policy. It's rare to get a satisfactory response to complaints on this mailing list. It's not really what it's here for.
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
-- Verzonden vanaf mijn mobiele apparaat
Kind regards,
Huib Laurens WickedWay.nl
Webhosting the wicked way.
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 5:17 AM, Huib Laurens sterkebak@gmail.com wrote:
Hello,
Almost a week later there has been no responds bij the Foundation nor a responds from the OTRS admins to this mailing nor in private.
Untrue regarding OTRS admins. I, as an OTRS admin, concur with the judgement of another OTRS admin who responded to your complaint on this list the very day you posted your issue.. Copy/paste as follows...
fromCasey Brown lists@caseybrown.orgreply-toWikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org toWikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org dateThu, Jun 2, 2011 at 4:57 PMsubjectRe: [Foundation-l] OTRSmailing list foundation-l.lists.wikimedia.org Filter messages from this mailing list mailed-bylists.wikimedia.orgunsubscribeUnsubscribe from this mailing-list hide details Jun 2 (4 days ago) On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 4:01 PM, Huib Laurens sterkebak@gmail.com wrote:
User Silverspoon publiced a e-mail I send to OTRS in a channel.
This e-mail (http://demo.wickedway.nl/temp/SS%20temp.jpg) is a e-mail I sended to OTRS to release content. This e-mail was paste on pastebin to discuss in a public IRC channel ( http://demo.wickedway.nl/temp/ss%20temp2.jpg),
Silverspoon told me he had the information from user:FreakyFries. I tried
to
make a complaint by Guillom, the OTRS admin and he says he doesn't give a fuck. (http://demo.wickedway.nl/temp/ss%20temp3.jpg)
At this moment I believe my privacy has been abbused by linking me to a website in a private channel, I would like to see what the foundation
thinks
about this since the person in charge thinks its perfectly normal to
publish
private e-mails.
Knowing more about the specifics of the situation, I think what the OTRS agent did was fine. The OTRS agent did not share any personally identifiable information; he just shared enough of the contents of the e-mail to help process the ticket effectively.
While we do not like to reveal ticket information for no reason (and like to keep the private information about the customer private), if we need to reveal parts of it to others in order to process it and get assistance, we can do that.
I don't see anything wrong with what happened here, and if you have further issues or details, please direct them privately to the rest of the OTRS admins at: volunteers-otrs [at] wikimedia.org OR otrs-admins [at] lists [dot] wikimedia [dot] org.
Thanks, Casey
-- Casey Brown Cbrown1023
Try these guys:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ombudsman_commission
On 2 June 2011 20:40, Huib Laurens sterkebak@gmail.com wrote:
Hello,
I'm wondering, is there a policy for OTRS agents saying that they can't make info send to OTRS public?
-- Kind regards,
Huib Laurens WickedWay.nl
Webhosting the wicked way. _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
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