Hey all,
fantastic news for now: The Chinese version of Wikipedia has been UNblocked in mainland China once again - hopefully longer this time (I dare say permanently).
See: http://www.danwei.org/net_nanny_follies/wikipedia_chinese_version_unbl.php
Ian (User:Poeloq)
Ian A. Holton pisze:
Hey all,
fantastic news for now: The Chinese version of Wikipedia has been UNblocked in mainland China once again - hopefully longer this time (I dare say permanently).
See: http://www.danwei.org/net_nanny_follies/wikipedia_chinese_version_unbl.php
Ian (User:Poeloq)
Great news :)
masti
Forgive me for putting a downer on proceedings, but I doubt this will last 5 minutes beyond the end of the closing ceremony of the Olympics.
Best,
CM
Odi profanum vulgus et arceo.
----------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 15:50:51 +0200 From: poeloq@gmail.com To: foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: [Foundation-l] Chinese Wikipedia unblocked in Mainland China
Hey all,
fantastic news for now: The Chinese version of Wikipedia has been UNblocked in mainland China once again - hopefully longer this time (I dare say permanently).
See: http://www.danwei.org/net_nanny_follies/wikipedia_chinese_version_unbl.php
Ian (User:Poeloq) _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
_________________________________________________________________ Get Messenger on your mobile, text MSN to 63463 now! http://mobile.uk.msn.com/pc/messenger.aspx
Christiano et al,
you may be right. I will be in China at the time and will have my fingers crossed.
Ian [User:Poeloq]
On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 8:02 PM, Christiano Moreschi < moreschiwikiman@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
Forgive me for putting a downer on proceedings, but I doubt this will last 5 minutes beyond the end of the closing ceremony of the Olympics.
Best,
CM
Odi profanum vulgus et arceo.
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 15:50:51 +0200 From: poeloq@gmail.com To: foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: [Foundation-l] Chinese Wikipedia unblocked in Mainland China
Hey all,
fantastic news for now: The Chinese version of Wikipedia has been
UNblocked
in mainland China once again - hopefully longer this time (I dare say permanently).
See:
http://www.danwei.org/net_nanny_follies/wikipedia_chinese_version_unbl.php
Ian (User:Poeloq) _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Get Messenger on your mobile, text MSN to 63463 now! http://mobile.uk.msn.com/pc/messenger.aspx _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 11:02 AM, Christiano Moreschi < moreschiwikiman@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
Forgive me for putting a downer on proceedings, but I doubt this will last 5 minutes beyond the end of the closing ceremony of the Olympics.
Don't be silly. I'm sure they will wait at least a few days so that the reporters have all gone home first.
-Robert Rohde
Robert, Ting, et al,
Robert, I hope that was sarcasm ;-)
Ting, confirmation of the unblock? I can confirm this. I have a server in Beijing which had access, my friends in Beijing have access and I can also confirm that access to Wikipedia, both English and Chinese, was unblocked in Huludao (Liaoning Province) as of today.
Greatings, Ian [[User:Poeloq]]
On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 9:37 PM, Robert Rohde rarohde@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 11:02 AM, Christiano Moreschi < moreschiwikiman@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
Forgive me for putting a downer on proceedings, but I doubt this will
last
5 minutes beyond the end of the closing ceremony of the Olympics.
Don't be silly. I'm sure they will wait at least a few days so that the reporters have all gone home first.
-Robert Rohde _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 4:23 PM, Ian A. Holton poeloq@gmail.com wrote:
Ting, confirmation of the unblock? I can confirm this. I have a server in Beijing which had access, my friends in Beijing have access and I can also confirm that access to Wikipedia, both English and Chinese, was unblocked in Huludao (Liaoning Province) as of today.
[snip]
Perhaps it's just become considered better to allow access then track who reads what. :-/
Probably cheaper too. You gotta pay all the spooks monitoring people (and the snatch and grab teams kidnapping them, and the interrogators etc.). All that money could be used for more important things (like bribes, and lining corrupt officials pockets).
-dan On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 4:30 PM, Gregory Maxwell gmaxwell@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 4:23 PM, Ian A. Holton poeloq@gmail.com wrote:
Ting, confirmation of the unblock? I can confirm this. I have a server in Beijing which had access, my friends in Beijing have access and I can
also
confirm that access to Wikipedia, both English and Chinese, was unblocked
in
Huludao (Liaoning Province) as of today.
[snip]
Perhaps it's just become considered better to allow access then track who reads what. :-/
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Hey,
let's keep this discussion NPOV Wikipedia-style - especially when talking about a country that is being potrayed in the media as the sleeping evil giant on the one hand and the next world superpower (and hope) by the others.
It is correct, that many things in the People's Republic of China may not be dealt with in the same way as the West / the free world, but let's not start repeating obvious propaganda messages and statements of the other extreme.
In regards to the subject at hand, I'm not sure what the reason for unblocking is and the Olympics are not necessarily the reason for _everything_ happening in the PR at the moment. I know my fair bit on the GWC topic and I am fairly certain that blocking is cheaper and more effective than unblocking, disregardless of if they are tracking who is looking at what, when, why and how.
Ian [[User:Poeloq]]
On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 10:58 PM, Dan Rosenthal swatjester@gmail.com wrote:
Probably cheaper too. You gotta pay all the spooks monitoring people (and the snatch and grab teams kidnapping them, and the interrogators etc.). All that money could be used for more important things (like bribes, and lining corrupt officials pockets).
-dan On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 4:30 PM, Gregory Maxwell gmaxwell@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 4:23 PM, Ian A. Holton poeloq@gmail.com wrote:
Ting, confirmation of the unblock? I can confirm this. I have a server
in
Beijing which had access, my friends in Beijing have access and I can
also
confirm that access to Wikipedia, both English and Chinese, was
unblocked
in
Huludao (Liaoning Province) as of today.
[snip]
Perhaps it's just become considered better to allow access then track who reads what. :-/
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
-- Dan Rosenthal _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Oh, don't be silly. This is the flaming mailing list. NPOV doesn't apply here. We can all mouth off about the PRC as much as we like, so long as it's reasonably on-topic. Discussion is never NPOV, nor should it be.
CM
Odi profanum vulgus et arceo.
----------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 23:06:57 +0200 From: poeloq@gmail.com To: foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Chinese Wikipedia unblocked in Mainland China
Hey,
let's keep this discussion NPOV Wikipedia-style - especially when talking about a country that is being potrayed in the media as the sleeping evil giant on the one hand and the next world superpower (and hope) by the others.
It is correct, that many things in the People's Republic of China may not be dealt with in the same way as the West / the free world, but let's not start repeating obvious propaganda messages and statements of the other extreme.
In regards to the subject at hand, I'm not sure what the reason for unblocking is and the Olympics are not necessarily the reason for _everything_ happening in the PR at the moment. I know my fair bit on the GWC topic and I am fairly certain that blocking is cheaper and more effective than unblocking, disregardless of if they are tracking who is looking at what, when, why and how.
Ian [[User:Poeloq]]
On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 10:58 PM, Dan Rosenthal wrote:
Probably cheaper too. You gotta pay all the spooks monitoring people (and the snatch and grab teams kidnapping them, and the interrogators etc.). All that money could be used for more important things (like bribes, and lining corrupt officials pockets).
-dan On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 4:30 PM, Gregory Maxwell wrote:
On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 4:23 PM, Ian A. Holton wrote:
Ting, confirmation of the unblock? I can confirm this. I have a server
in
Beijing which had access, my friends in Beijing have access and I can
also
confirm that access to Wikipedia, both English and Chinese, was
unblocked
in
Huludao (Liaoning Province) as of today.
[snip]
Perhaps it's just become considered better to allow access then track who reads what. :-/
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
-- Dan Rosenthal _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
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Christiano et al,
re-reading my last mail: I must agree, it sounds silly as the intended sarcasm combined with my own opinion, which normally isn't very NPOV itself, didn't quite come out. Maybe because I was writing it sitting on the train ;-)
Enjoy,
Ian [[User:Poeloq]]
On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 12:19 AM, Christiano Moreschi < moreschiwikiman@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
Oh, don't be silly. This is the flaming mailing list. NPOV doesn't apply here. We can all mouth off about the PRC as much as we like, so long as it's reasonably on-topic. Discussion is never NPOV, nor should it be.
CM
Odi profanum vulgus et arceo.
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 23:06:57 +0200 From: poeloq@gmail.com To: foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Chinese Wikipedia unblocked in Mainland China
Hey,
let's keep this discussion NPOV Wikipedia-style - especially when
talking
about a country that is being potrayed in the media as the sleeping evil giant on the one hand and the next world superpower (and hope) by the others.
It is correct, that many things in the People's Republic of China may not
be
dealt with in the same way as the West / the free world, but let's not
start
repeating obvious propaganda messages and statements of the other
extreme.
In regards to the subject at hand, I'm not sure what the reason for unblocking is and the Olympics are not necessarily the reason for _everything_ happening in the PR at the moment. I know my fair bit on the GWC topic and I am fairly certain that blocking is cheaper and more effective than unblocking, disregardless of if they are tracking who is looking at what, when, why and how.
Ian [[User:Poeloq]]
On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 10:58 PM, Dan Rosenthal wrote:
Probably cheaper too. You gotta pay all the spooks monitoring people
(and
the snatch and grab teams kidnapping them, and the interrogators etc.).
All
that money could be used for more important things (like bribes, and
lining
corrupt officials pockets).
-dan On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 4:30 PM, Gregory Maxwell wrote:
On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 4:23 PM, Ian A. Holton wrote:
Ting, confirmation of the unblock? I can confirm this. I have a server
in
Beijing which had access, my friends in Beijing have access and I can
also
confirm that access to Wikipedia, both English and Chinese, was
unblocked
in
Huludao (Liaoning Province) as of today.
[snip]
Perhaps it's just become considered better to allow access then track who reads what. :-/
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
-- Dan Rosenthal _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Live Search Charades - guess correctly and find hidden videos http://www.searchcharades.com/ _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 6:30 AM, Gregory Maxwell gmaxwell@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 4:23 PM, Ian A. Holton poeloq@gmail.com wrote:
Ting, confirmation of the unblock? I can confirm this. I have a server in Beijing which had access, my friends in Beijing have access and I can also confirm that access to Wikipedia, both English and Chinese, was unblocked in Huludao (Liaoning Province) as of today.
[snip]
Perhaps it's just become considered better to allow access then track who reads what. :-/
I hear from friends on the ground that while the Chinese Wikipedia is now unblocked, the firewall is definitely still interfering. They report connection resets (modus operandi of the great firewall) on every *second* visit to the article on Mao Zedong.
http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%AF%9B%E6%B3%BD%E4%B8%9C
-- John
On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 10:26 PM, John Vandenberg jayvdb@gmail.com wrote:
I hear from friends on the ground that while the Chinese Wikipedia is now unblocked, the firewall is definitely still interfering. They report connection resets (modus operandi of the great firewall) on every *second* visit to the article on Mao Zedong.
It may be that it attempts to reset every time but the reset arrives too late to matter half the time.
But of course, this is the sort of concern I was raising in my prior post... I wasn't attempting any knock on the PRC, since it's certainly far from the only government with bad policies ...
Just that blocking isn't the worst that can be done. Leaving the appearance of non-interference while responding more subtly is potentially much more harmful.
Gregory Maxwell wrote:
On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 10:26 PM, John Vandenberg jayvdb@gmail.com wrote:
I hear from friends on the ground that while the Chinese Wikipedia is now unblocked, the firewall is definitely still interfering. They report connection resets (modus operandi of the great firewall) on every *second* visit to the article on Mao Zedong.
It may be that it attempts to reset every time but the reset arrives too late to matter half the time.
But of course, this is the sort of concern I was raising in my prior post... I wasn't attempting any knock on the PRC, since it's certainly far from the only government with bad policies ...
Just that blocking isn't the worst that can be done. Leaving the appearance of non-interference while responding more subtly is potentially much more harmful.
I'd hardly call home invasion by the police "subtle".
However, you're unlikely to meet that reaction if you're reading the article on quantum electrodynamics. The aim of the Wikimedia Foundation is education, not dissent. Unblocking our domains is a big win for education, whichever way you look at it.
It may be true that Chinese people will continue to have problems receiving education on certain topics, such as the mistakes of the past and present leadership of the CCP. But take comfort in the fact that they will be able to read about democracy, about political systems and living conditions in other parts of the world; about history and the terrible things perpetrated by dictatorial regimes on their people. Perhaps Wikimedia can contribute to China's gradual liberalisation in this way.
-- Tim Starling
Yeah, let me be clear to those confused that my prior email in this thread was generalized to all governments, and not intended to be specifically aimed at china. I'm quite glad that our domain is unblocked, for at least some time.
Three users from Beijing and Shanghai just told me that they doesn't have access directly atm. In the last few times the unblock went with different speed according to provider and region. So maybe the same this time. I will keep you updated.
Suspetions is that it has to do with Olympics. So let's wait what happes.
Greetings Ting.
-------- Original-Nachricht --------
Datum: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 22:23:10 +0200 Von: "Ian A. Holton" poeloq@gmail.com An: "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List" foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Betreff: Re: [Foundation-l] Chinese Wikipedia unblocked in Mainland China
Robert, Ting, et al,
Robert, I hope that was sarcasm ;-)
Ting, confirmation of the unblock? I can confirm this. I have a server in Beijing which had access, my friends in Beijing have access and I can also confirm that access to Wikipedia, both English and Chinese, was unblocked in Huludao (Liaoning Province) as of today.
Greatings, Ian [[User:Poeloq]]
On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 9:37 PM, Robert Rohde rarohde@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 11:02 AM, Christiano Moreschi < moreschiwikiman@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
Forgive me for putting a downer on proceedings, but I doubt this will
last
5 minutes beyond the end of the closing ceremony of the Olympics.
Don't be silly. I'm sure they will wait at least a few days so that the reporters have all gone home first.
-Robert Rohde _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
I am trying to get a confirmation or a denying. Because at the moment it is already after midnight there we would have to wait until tomorrow for that.
Greetings Ting
-------- Original-Nachricht --------
Datum: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 15:50:51 +0200 Von: "Ian A. Holton" poeloq@gmail.com An: foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Betreff: [Foundation-l] Chinese Wikipedia unblocked in Mainland China
Hey all,
fantastic news for now: The Chinese version of Wikipedia has been UNblocked in mainland China once again - hopefully longer this time (I dare say permanently).
See: http://www.danwei.org/net_nanny_follies/wikipedia_chinese_version_unbl.php
Ian (User:Poeloq) _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
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