Re: [Wikimedia-l] Thinking outside the box

List overview All Threads
Download

newer

older

Peter Baldwin joins the Wikimedia...

New functionality: cross-wiki...

Rogol Domedonfors

6 Sep 2016 6 Sep '16

6:33 a.m.

Show replies by date

Anders Wennersten

6 Sep 6 Sep

6:46 a.m.

New subject: Thinking outside the box

I am very happy how this nowadays works out. We have now a lot of chapters, each with a Board. And here the members are not oldtimers and here is the appropriate first place to get into the Wikmedia world. And there are many bodies who you can then turn to to get further into the Wikimedia world, like Affcom or being a member of Simple Annual Plan Grants Committee or other grant committees. Also here more or less newcomers are welcome. But for the core bodies like the Board, FDC or the BGC supporting committee, I am very pleased to see that we get a lot of people with long Wikimedia experience. And as they are frequently replaced, I see no problem and only advantages Anders Den 2016-09-06 kl. 08:33, skrev Rogol Domedonfors:

...

I think Pine's message rather illustrates my point. Pine seems to assume that the alternative is between people experienced in the WMF ways of doing things and novices. Actually, there are plenty of people in the world with experience in being trustees of non-proft organisations, and technical expertise, and experience of knowledge representation and dissemination, and the robustness to hold senior employees to account, who are not closely connected with the WMF or its affiliates. They mainly live a long way from Silicon Valley, too. For the avoidance of doubt, I have never been a candidate for, let alone held, any position, paid or voluntary, in or related to the WMF or any associated organisation. "Rogol" _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

Christophe Henner

8 a.m.

New subject: Thinking outside the box

...

I think Pine's message rather illustrates my point. Pine seems to assume that the alternative is between people experienced in the WMF ways of doing things and novices. Actually, there are plenty of people in the world with experience in being trustees of non-proft organisations, and technical expertise, and experience of knowledge representation and dissemination, and the robustness to hold senior employees to account, who are not closely connected with the WMF or its affiliates. They mainly live a long way from Silicon Valley, too. For the avoidance of doubt, I have never been a candidate for, let alone held, any position, paid or voluntary, in or related to the WMF or any associated organisation. "Rogol" _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

Fæ

9:52 a.m.

New subject: Thinking outside the box

Picking up on Christophe's idea of improving "organically". It is a good thing to be open to gradual organic improvement, this means that the Wikimedia ecology of organizations adopt proven improvements based on the results of varied and experimental changes. This is one big drawback, referred to earlier in the email thread. Organic growth may result in major changes but it eliminates the possibility of major step changes, unless these happen in a single disruptive upheaval where old rules and processes are broken. The community RFC which resulted in an appointed WMF trustee resigning was an example of how revolutionary changes can be forced on the system,[1] but how much better it would be if unplanned changes like this were avoided more often, by the deeper issues being surfaced early, possibly through a more pro-active WMF strategy planning process. I'm delighted that Christophe is an internal advocate for change, and has the existing WMF strategy process in mind, so I hope there is scope for investing in improving the strategy process itself. Agreeing with Domedonfors' original point, for governance related committees, a proportion of fresh viewpoints outside of the core vocal community can be added by appointed professional seats, plus committee roles can be deliberately spread between "long established Wikimedians" and newbies that have other useful skills and experience to bring. So, Domedonfors is correct that the recent appointments do introduce a risk that entrenched viewpoints may be reinforced, rather than evolving these committees to embrace potentially better approaches to test out and foster improvements. Note that by "reinforced", I'm not saying any committee has a single viewpoint, but that the nature of the dialogue within committees, including hashing out old disagreements, looks like it will follow the same path with these appointments of long established Wikimedians and ex-WMF managers, rather than carving a new agenda that may be able to challenge both the WMF and Associates to step up their game and become something different and better suited to the global open knowledge internet-focused world of 2016, rather than be constrained and even weighed down, by projects and strategies we established together over a decade and a half ago. Links 1. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Vote_of_no_confidence_… Fae On 6 September 2016 at 09:00, Christophe Henner <chenner(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:

...

Hi Rogol, The weird thing in this discussion is I kind of agree with everyone. Yes more diversity would be awesome. But in my opinion diversity should be something we achieve organicaly. So, from my biased perspective, the key issue is for us to build room for people to emerge but also to feel entitled to run for those position. To also build ways to train people, to "groom" them and their potential. And we know that in our movement we have the smart people we will need in the coming years. It's up to us to help them emerge and take our seats. I gebuinely haven't a solution ready to work out of the box and there are people in our movement way more expert in those topics than me. And that might be something that could be adress during the strategy process. And the only way we will be able to tackle it properly is if first we can include everyone in our movement in the process, not just the "usual suspects". Le 6 sept. 2016 8:46 AM, "Anders Wennersten" <mail(a)anderswennersten.se> a écrit : > I am very happy how this nowadays works out. > > We have now a lot of chapters, each with a Board. And here the members are > not oldtimers and here is the appropriate first place to get into the > Wikmedia world. > > And there are many bodies who you can then turn to to get further into the > Wikimedia world, like Affcom or being a member of Simple Annual Plan > Grants Committee or other grant committees. Also here more or less > newcomers are welcome. > > But for the core bodies like the Board, FDC or the BGC supporting > committee, I am very pleased to see that we get a lot of people with long > Wikimedia experience. And as they are frequently replaced, I see no problem > and only advantages > > Anders

-- faewik(a)gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae

Jane Darnell

3:08 p.m.

New subject: Thinking outside the box

Yes to this: "the key issue is for us to build room for people to emerge but also to feel entitled to run for those position" I would say this is a key issue at the very bottom as well, for example just getting people to become a contributor to any one of our many projects, whether it's Wikipedia, Commons, or anything else. On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 4:00 AM, Christophe Henner <chenner(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:

...

I am very happy how this nowadays works out. We have now a lot of chapters, each with a Board. And here the members

are

not oldtimers and here is the appropriate first place to get into the Wikmedia world. And there are many bodies who you can then turn to to get further into

the

Wikimedia world, like Affcom or being a member of Simple Annual Plan Grants Committee or other grant committees. Also here more or less newcomers are welcome. But for the core bodies like the Board, FDC or the BGC supporting committee, I am very pleased to see that we get a lot of people with long Wikimedia experience. And as they are frequently replaced, I see no

problem

and only advantages Anders Den 2016-09-06 kl. 08:33, skrev Rogol Domedonfors: > I think Pine's message rather illustrates my point. Pine seems to

assume

that the alternative is between people experienced in the WMF ways of doing things and novices. Actually, there are plenty of people in the world with experience in being trustees of non-proft organisations, and technical expertise, and experience of knowledge representation and dissemination, and the robustness to hold senior employees to account, who are not closely connected with the WMF or its affiliates. They mainly live a long way from Silicon Valley, too. For the avoidance of doubt, I have never been a candidate for, let alone held, any position, paid or voluntary, in or related to the WMF or any associated organisation. "Rogol" _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

Pine W

8 Sep 8 Sep

6:25 a.m.

New subject: Thinking outside the box

Agree. Our flat population of active editors [0], while the Internet population continues to grow, suggests that we have a problem. As a part of the upcoming WMF strategy, I hope that there will be work on growing the population of active contributors, as well as developing the number and skills of community leaders, including new leaders. Pine [0] https://reportcard.wmflabs.org/graphs/active_editors On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 8:08 AM, Jane Darnell <jane023(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Hi Rogol, The weird thing in this discussion is I kind of agree with everyone. Yes more diversity would be awesome. But in my opinion diversity should

something we achieve organicaly. So, from my biased perspective, the key issue is for us to build room for people to emerge but also to feel entitled to run for those position. To also build ways to train people, to "groom" them and their potential. And we know that in our movement we have the smart people we will need in the coming years. It's up to us to help them emerge and take our seats. I gebuinely haven't a solution ready to work out of the box and there are people in our movement way more expert in those topics than me. And that might be something that could be adress during the strategy process. And the only way we will be able to tackle it properly is if

first

we can include everyone in our movement in the process, not just the

"usual

suspects". Le 6 sept. 2016 8:46 AM, "Anders Wennersten" <mail(a)anderswennersten.se>

écrit :

I am very happy how this nowadays works out. We have now a lot of chapters, each with a Board. And here the members

are

not oldtimers and here is the appropriate first place to get into the Wikmedia world. And there are many bodies who you can then turn to to get further into

the > Wikimedia world, like Affcom or being a member of Simple Annual Plan > Grants Committee or other grant committees. Also here more or less > newcomers are welcome. > > But for the core bodies like the Board, FDC or the BGC supporting > committee, I am very pleased to see that we get a lot of people with

long

Wikimedia experience. And as they are frequently replaced, I see no

problem

and only advantages Anders Den 2016-09-06 kl. 08:33, skrev Rogol Domedonfors: > I think Pine's message rather illustrates my point. Pine seems to

assume >> that the alternative is between people experienced in the WMF ways of >> doing >> things and novices. Actually, there are plenty of people in the world >> with >> experience in being trustees of non-proft organisations, and technical >> expertise, and experience of knowledge representation and

dissemination,

>> and the robustness to hold senior employees to account, who are not >> closely >> connected with the WMF or its affiliates. They mainly live a long way >> from >> Silicon Valley, too. >> >> For the avoidance of doubt, I have never been a candidate for, let

alone

>> held, any position, paid or voluntary, in or related to the WMF or any >> associated organisation. >> >> "Rogol" >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik

>> i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik

i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

2787

days inactive

2789

days old

wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org

Manage subscription

5 comments

6 participants

tags (0)

participants (6)

Anders Wennersten
Christophe Henner
Fæ
Jane Darnell
Pine W
Rogol Domedonfors