I am glad to see the WMF taking a slow and careful look at this. My primary question is why does this costing so much? More than half a million is a huge sum. And what exactly do we as a movement get from this? IMO we do not need more bureaucracy but less. A $100,000 for the secretary general, to run an organization that does not even exist yet? What we need is more tech people. While I know all those involved in this are good people why are they not doing this was volunteers? I donate around $250,000 worth of my time a year to the movement and still throw in some cash.
What budget are you looking at? I don't think one has been agreed yet...
On 5 February 2013 12:49, James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com wrote:
I am glad to see the WMF taking a slow and careful look at this. My primary question is why does this costing so much? More than half a million is a huge sum. And what exactly do we as a movement get from this? IMO we do not need more bureaucracy but less. A $100,000 for the secretary general, to run an organization that does not even exist yet? What we need is more tech people. While I know all those involved in this are good people why are they not doing this was volunteers? I donate around $250,000 worth of my time a year to the movement and still throw in some cash.
-- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine www.opentextbookofmedicine.com
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The figures that James was going from here were rejected, this was stated on the meta page in question, but I have made it a lot clearer by repeating the word 'rejected' several times in upper-case.
There was a lengthy discussion about covering basic wind-up costs for the SG recruitment rather than attempting yet again to produce a full budget for the Association. This is mentioned in the resolutions on meta, however I need to think about a diplomatic reply to the WMF board letter rather than going on a tangent. I am sure someone can put the right links against your question and you can see if our previous discussion was sufficient, or not, in your view.
Cheers, Fae
There are good and simple reasons for the WMF not "endorsing" the WCA. The WCA is conceived as essentially an adversarial organization, meant to compete with the WMF for resources - yet it's also apparently designed to be dependent on the WMF for funding. So now the WCA can incorporate and pursue its mission without that particular conflict of interest and with clarity from all sides on the nature of its relationship with the WMF. All in all, that might work out better for the WCA given its aims. Now it just needs to find a way to raise money to fund its anticipated costs, including hiring. Is it fair to assume that the WMF will take a dim view of FDC-allocated funds being transferred to the WCA? I'm sure no chapters anticipating an FDC allocation would like to put that at risk.
Nathan
On 5 February 2013 15:05, Nathan nawrich@gmail.com wrote:
... Is it fair to assume that the WMF will take a dim view of FDC-allocated funds being transferred to the WCA? I'm sure no chapters anticipating an FDC allocation would like to put that at risk.
Would someone sitting on the FDC like to pick this one up?
Thanks, Fae
hi Fae,
... Is it fair to assume that the WMF will take a dim view of
FDC-allocated funds being transferred to the WCA? I'm sure no chapters anticipating an FDC allocation would like to put that at risk.
Would someone sitting on the FDC like to pick this one up?
there's nothing to pick up so far. The FDC has not held any meetings since (obviously), and it generally operates within the mandate given by the Board (which makes all decisions, FDC is only making recommendations). I myself can reveal that I personally believe that for the WCA, or any other entity basing on similar principles, FDC-based funding model is much better (in terms of accountability, transparency, and also sensible strategy creation) than membership fees.
best,
pundit
On 05.02.2013 16:18, Dariusz Jemielniak wrote:
there's nothing to pick up so far. The FDC has not held any meetings since (obviously), and it generally operates within the mandate given by the Board (which makes all decisions, FDC is only making recommendations). I
Strange world that of Wikimedia where everyone makes recommendations to someone and for something.
Sorry, is it possible to identify in this "strange world" the key decision makers?
Ilario
On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 4:30 PM, Ilario Valdelli valdelli@gmail.com wrote:
Sorry, is it possible to identify in this "strange world" the key decision makers?
I don't understand what you mean. The Board is responsible for all financial decisions of this sort also in terms of legal duty, it cannot cede it to any other body. FDC is responsible for reviewing all proposals and making recommendations to the Board, which makes the final decision - I am unaware how it could be constructed otherwise, honestly.
best,
pundit
On 5 February 2013 15:30, Ilario Valdelli valdelli@gmail.com wrote:
On 05.02.2013 16:18, Dariusz Jemielniak wrote:
there's nothing to pick up so far. The FDC has not held any meetings since (obviously), and it generally operates within the mandate given by the Board (which makes all decisions, FDC is only making recommendations). I
Strange world that of Wikimedia where everyone makes recommendations to someone and for something.
Sorry, is it possible to identify in this "strange world" the key decision makers?
Ilario
Sue. [/me shuts up and hides]
Dariusz Jemielniak, 05/02/2013 16:18:
... Is it fair to assume that the WMF will take a dim view of
FDC-allocated funds being transferred to the WCA? I'm sure no chapters anticipating an FDC allocation would like to put that at risk.
Would someone sitting on the FDC like to pick this one up?
there's nothing to pick up so far. The FDC has not held any meetings since (obviously), and it generally operates within the mandate given by the Board (which makes all decisions, FDC is only making recommendations). I myself can reveal that I personally believe that for the WCA, or any other entity basing on similar principles, FDC-based funding model is much better (in terms of accountability, transparency, and also sensible strategy creation) than membership fees.
The WMF board decision prevents the FDC from even making such a suggestion. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/FDC_portal/Eligibility_criteria This is not what Nathan asked, though; Nathan, of course the FDC may change their mind, but as for the past the answer to your question is in their last recommendations to the board (as far as I can see).
Nemo
Presumably Round 1 disbursements have already been made, which means that the chapters in receipt of funds can choose to spend them how they see fit. But I don't recall seeing plans to donate money to the WCA in funding requests to the FDC, and I suspect that since the WMF has chosen not to recognize the WCA any chapter that donates a portion of their FDC funding to the WCA will find it difficult to receive funds again in the current or subsequent rounds. Nemo seems to be saying that is self-evident, but it doesn't seem so clear cut to me.
I misspoke slightly; WCA fees were submitted in budget requests, but the amounts were removed from the allocations themselves[1]. Sorry for the inaccuracy there.
[1]( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/FDC_portal/FDC_recommendations/2012-2013_rou... ).
On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 10:48 AM, Nathan nawrich@gmail.com wrote:
Presumably Round 1 disbursements have already been made, which means that the chapters in receipt of funds can choose to spend them how they see fit. But I don't recall seeing plans to donate money to the WCA in funding requests to the FDC, and I suspect that since the WMF has chosen not to recognize the WCA any chapter that donates a portion of their FDC funding to the WCA will find it difficult to receive funds again in the current or subsequent rounds. Nemo seems to be saying that is self-evident, but it doesn't seem so clear cut to me.
On 05/02/2013 15:50, Nathan wrote:
I misspoke slightly; WCA fees were submitted in budget requests, but the amounts were removed from the allocations themselves[1]. Sorry for the inaccuracy there.
[1]( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/FDC_portal/FDC_recommendations/2012-2013_rou... ).
On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 10:48 AM, Nathan nawrich@gmail.com wrote:
Presumably Round 1 disbursements have already been made, which means that the chapters in receipt of funds can choose to spend them how they see fit. But I don't recall seeing plans to donate money to the WCA in funding requests to the FDC, and I suspect that since the WMF has chosen not to recognize the WCA any chapter that donates a portion of their FDC funding to the WCA will find it difficult to receive funds again in the current or subsequent rounds. Nemo seems to be saying that is self-evident, but it doesn't seem so clear cut to me.
FDC / WMF Grants is not the only source of chapter's funding for all chapters. (Not that I'm saying asking for 2 or 3 chapters who does have such alternative funding to pay for WCA is realistic.)
KTC
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