Ramir is the only admin on ru.wikibooks and he has recently removed the Wikimedia banners from that project, and then reverted once when they were restored. This is the latest comment in a thread about this issue:
Ramir writes:
This is comical. An appointed representative (i. e. you) of a corporation (i. e. Wikimedia) is tactlessly suggesting that I (a long-proven, devoted Wiki-education enthusiast with no interest for or against the corporation) am biased. A mongrel mob of clueless, faceless, foreign-speaking door-to-door salesmen have knocked on Russian Wikibooks' door and, without ceremony, are accusing the housekeeper of being "biased" against their T-shirt manufacturing company. Just you all get out of here, pests. Go do some wiki work: moving and deleting, putting templates, voting ― you are much better at that than at marketing or any other form of socially constructive work. As of the hosting company itself, I know enough about them (as I mentioned, from my administrative correspondence with Angela Beasley, Florence Nibart-Devouard and Guillome Paumier) to be disappointed. You are not getting T-shirt orders from me. Nor from the people I drew to the project, I am sure. Ramir 03:09, 8 января 2008 (UTC)
Clearly he is jaded against the Foundation and feels like his project has been ignored. I wonder if there are other small projects with similar feelings, and if there is something that can be done about it before it gets to this point.
Nathan
Hoi, Most definetly there are more projects like this. One of the reasons Ramir has a point is because there is no functional framework for these kind of issues. People take up an issue and make a ruckus often without taking time to be diplomatic, without talking to the people involved. Everything is presented as a crisis and consequently it has to be dealt with now because it is so bad ... so lets vote because we must be right when we have voted ...
Many projects have their issues, many languages have their issues. People who speak different languages are not heard by you, understood when they speak in their language by you. When it is argued that we do not take enough care of our smaller languages our smaller projects many people react negatively because it can only detract from their project...
When you ask what can be done, the first thing is show respect, assume good faith and talk. Preferably not like a mob. Have a body that deals with these things quietly. The stewards do great work, but it would help when there is a body of trusted people that are there to mediate or arbitrate. Quietly, slowly, and authoritatively. Yes, there needs to be openness but in the end the smooth optimal running of projects will make us accomplish what we are about; provide information to all people of this world.
Thanks, GerardM
On Jan 9, 2008 2:20 PM, Nathan nawrich@gmail.com wrote:
Ramir is the only admin on ru.wikibooks and he has recently removed the Wikimedia banners from that project, and then reverted once when they were restored. This is the latest comment in a thread about this issue:
Ramir writes:
This is comical. An appointed representative (i. e. you) of a corporation (i. e. Wikimedia) is tactlessly suggesting that I (a long-proven, devoted Wiki-education enthusiast with no interest for or against the corporation) am biased. A mongrel mob of clueless, faceless, foreign-speaking door-to-door salesmen have knocked on Russian Wikibooks' door and, without ceremony, are accusing the housekeeper of being "biased" against their T-shirt manufacturing company. Just you all get out of here, pests. Go do some wiki work: moving and deleting, putting templates, voting ― you are much better at that than at marketing or any other form of socially constructive work. As of the hosting company itself, I know enough about them (as I mentioned, from my administrative correspondence with Angela Beasley, Florence Nibart-Devouard and Guillome Paumier) to be disappointed. You are not getting T-shirt orders from me. Nor from the people I drew to the project, I am sure. Ramir 03:09, 8 января 2008 (UTC)
Clearly he is jaded against the Foundation and feels like his project has been ignored. I wonder if there are other small projects with similar feelings, and if there is something that can be done about it before it gets to this point.
Nathan
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On 09/01/2008, Nathan nawrich@gmail.com wrote:
Clearly he is jaded against the Foundation and feels like his project has been ignored. I wonder if there are other small projects with similar feelings, and if there is something that can be done about it before it gets to this point.
Nathan
Not really. People are never going to react well to "we are from the foundation and are here to help". Smaller projects are always to an extent going to attract the outcasts from other projects. Sometimes it works out sometimes it does not.
Hoi, I resent the notion that people form smaller projects are outcasts. What happened to assume good faith ? Thanks, GerardM
On Jan 9, 2008 6:39 PM, geni geniice@gmail.com wrote:
On 09/01/2008, Nathan nawrich@gmail.com wrote:
Clearly he is jaded against the Foundation and feels like his project has been ignored. I wonder if there are other small projects with similar feelings, and if there is something that can be done about it before it gets to this point.
Nathan
Not really. People are never going to react well to "we are from the foundation and are here to help". Smaller projects are always to an extent going to attract the outcasts from other projects. Sometimes it works out sometimes it does not.
-- geni
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Personally, I'm not inclined to like the way that was phrased either, but in Geni's defense, she didn't say that people from smaller projects are outcasts. She said that smaller projects attract outcasts from other projects. Personally, I don't think that's a valid theorum either, but let's go after what she said, not twist it to something else, eh?
Philippe
-------------------------------------------------- From: "Gerard Meijssen" gerard.meijssen@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 11:48 AM To: "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List" foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Ru.Wikibooks
Hoi, I resent the notion that people form smaller projects are outcasts. What happened to assume good faith ? Thanks, GerardM
On Jan 9, 2008 6:39 PM, geni geniice@gmail.com wrote:
On 09/01/2008, Philippe Beaudette philippebeaudette@gmail.com wrote:
Personally, I'm not inclined to like the way that was phrased either, but in Geni's defense, she didn't say that people from smaller projects are outcasts. She said that smaller projects attract outcasts from other projects. Personally, I don't think that's a valid theorum either, but let's go after what she said, not twist it to something else, eh?
It certainly doesn't happen in every case, but I'd be surprised if "outcasts" didn't quite often go to smaller projects where they can do things their own way without attracting as much attention.
On 09/01/2008, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
Hoi, I resent the notion that people form smaller projects are outcasts. What happened to assume good faith ? Thanks, GerardM
I didn't say that. I said that to an extent they attract outcasts of larger projects. This isn't aways a problem. Someone who can't cope with the rather intense atmosphere that can occur on en.pedia may do fine on another project.
On Jan 10, 2008 3:45 AM, geni geniice@gmail.com wrote:
On 09/01/2008, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
Hoi, I resent the notion that people form smaller projects are outcasts. What happened to assume good faith ? Thanks, GerardM
I didn't say that. I said that to an extent they attract outcasts of larger projects. This isn't aways a problem. Someone who can't cope with the rather intense atmosphere that can occur on en.pedia may do fine on another project.
However I think I should say it is not my pleasure to see my respectful and hardworking friends to be called "outcasts". People may feel not comfortable from several reasons on a given project and it is not the same they are "outcasts". And I don't think outcast is a respectful word to classify someone regardless your intent. I say it as a Wikiquotian.
Update:
http://tinyurl.com/2v3abq (Section: More_on_Wikipedia_cruds).
My understanding was that there was going to be a meta RfC about this issue, but I don't see one. Am I looking in the wrong place, or have no steps yet been taken to resolve the problem here?
Nathan
On Jan 9, 2008 6:35 PM, Aphaia aphaia@gmail.com wrote:
On Jan 10, 2008 3:45 AM, geni geniice@gmail.com wrote:
On 09/01/2008, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
Hoi, I resent the notion that people form smaller projects are outcasts. What happened to assume good faith ? Thanks, GerardM
I didn't say that. I said that to an extent they attract outcasts of larger projects. This isn't aways a problem. Someone who can't cope with the rather intense atmosphere that can occur on en.pedia may do fine on another project.
However I think I should say it is not my pleasure to see my respectful and hardworking friends to be called "outcasts". People may feel not comfortable from several reasons on a given project and it is not the same they are "outcasts". And I don't think outcast is a respectful word to classify someone regardless your intent. I say it as a Wikiquotian.
-- KIZU Naoko http://d.hatena.ne.jp/Britty (in Japanese) Quote of the Day (English): http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/WQ:QOTD
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Nathan wrote:
Update:
http://tinyurl.com/2v3abq (Section: More_on_Wikipedia_cruds).
My understanding was that there was going to be a meta RfC about this issue, but I don't see one. Am I looking in the wrong place, or have no steps yet been taken to resolve the problem here?
Nathan
The user seems to have no interest in participating in the projects. I have suspended his administrative rights pending a determination of suitability for the Wikibooks projects. I encourage someone to open an RFC to help out in this regard.
Thanks
Cary
Cary Bass writes:
Nathan wrote:
Update:
http://tinyurl.com/2v3abq (Section: More_on_Wikipedia_cruds).
My understanding was that there was going to be a meta RfC about this issue, but I don't see one. Am I looking in the wrong place, or have no steps yet been taken to resolve the problem here?
Nathan
The user seems to have no interest in participating in the projects. I have suspended his administrative rights pending a determination of suitability for the Wikibooks projects. I encourage someone to open an RFC to help out in this regard.
Thanks
Cary
No, we are going to open RFC soon. --VasilievVV
2008/1/17, VasilievVV vasilvv@gmail.com:
Cary Bass writes:
Nathan wrote:
Update:
http://tinyurl.com/2v3abq (Section: More_on_Wikipedia_cruds).
My understanding was that there was going to be a meta RfC about this issue, but I don't see one. Am I looking in the wrong place, or have no steps yet been taken to resolve the problem here?
Nathan
The user seems to have no interest in participating in the projects. I have suspended his administrative rights pending a determination of suitability for the Wikibooks projects. I encourage someone to open an RFC to help out in this regard.
Thanks
Cary
No, we are going to open RFC soon. --VasilievVV
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http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comments/Ramir_on_Russian_Wikibo...
Thanks AlexSm!
Nick
Notified Ramir on his talkpage.
Nathan
On Jan 17, 2008 11:28 AM, Nicolò Zamperini nick1915@gmail.com wrote:
2008/1/17, VasilievVV vasilvv@gmail.com:
Cary Bass writes:
Nathan wrote:
Update:
http://tinyurl.com/2v3abq (Section: More_on_Wikipedia_cruds).
My understanding was that there was going to be a meta RfC about this issue, but I don't see one. Am I looking in the wrong place, or have no steps yet been taken to resolve the problem here?
Nathan
The user seems to have no interest in participating in the projects. I have suspended his administrative rights pending a determination of suitability for the Wikibooks projects. I encourage someone to open an RFC to help out in this regard.
Thanks
Cary
No, we are going to open RFC soon. --VasilievVV
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http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comments/Ramir_on_Russian_Wikibo...
Thanks AlexSm!
Nick
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On 09/01/2008, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
On Jan 9, 2008 6:39 PM, geni geniice@gmail.com wrote:
On 09/01/2008, Nathan nawrich@gmail.com wrote:
Clearly he is jaded against the Foundation and feels like his project has been ignored. I wonder if there are other small projects with similar feelings, and if there is something that can be done about it before it gets to this point.
Not really. People are never going to react well to "we are from the foundation and are here to help". Smaller projects are always to an extent going to attract the outcasts from other projects. Sometimes it works out sometimes it does not.
I resent the notion that people form smaller projects are outcasts. What happened to assume good faith ?
1., that's not what Geni said. 2, where's yours?
We do see a lot of people who don't fit in well at en:wp going to tiny projects. Sometimes it works out well, sometimes it doesn't. But claiming it's an assumption of bad faith to note the phenomenon is just silly, and claiming that noting the phenomenon is a statement that all people from smaller projects are being called outcasts is a failure of logic (A c B does not imply B c A) and reading on your part.
- d.
Hoi, You are right, I read this incorrectly. Sorry. Thanks, GerardM
On Jan 9, 2008 11:23 PM, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
On 09/01/2008, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
On Jan 9, 2008 6:39 PM, geni geniice@gmail.com wrote:
On 09/01/2008, Nathan nawrich@gmail.com wrote:
Clearly he is jaded against the Foundation and feels like his
project
has been ignored. I wonder if there are other small projects with similar feelings, and if there is something that can be done about
it
before it gets to this point.
Not really. People are never going to react well to "we are from the foundation and are here to help". Smaller projects are always to an extent going to attract the outcasts from other projects. Sometimes it works out sometimes it does not.
I resent the notion that people form smaller projects are outcasts. What happened to assume good faith ?
1., that's not what Geni said. 2, where's yours?
We do see a lot of people who don't fit in well at en:wp going to tiny projects. Sometimes it works out well, sometimes it doesn't. But claiming it's an assumption of bad faith to note the phenomenon is just silly, and claiming that noting the phenomenon is a statement that all people from smaller projects are being called outcasts is a failure of logic (A c B does not imply B c A) and reading on your part.
- d.
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