Since Ed Erhart didn't honor my request of posting in this mailing lists to discuss the plans to appropriate the Wikimedia Blog for the Wikimedia Foundation [1] (although I would have preferred that he had done it himself as he is the visible face behind this change, and therefore the burden of proof is on him to prove to the community that this is the right change), I am posting to this list with the hope that it can be discussed with people for whom these things matter.
The Wikimedia Blog [2] has the title "News from Wikipedia and the Wikimedia movement", and in case you don't know it it is run by the WMF [3]. This blog has been operating under the existing URL for many years, and I believe there was a general satisfaction with the way is run, the quality of the stories, the amount, etc. However, as I mentioned in the Phabricator ticket [1] I find the idea of moving the blog to the Wikimedia Foundation site not adequate and not in the spirit of the Wikimedia movement.
I do not find the intention to move the blog to the WMF site to be in the spirit of the Wikimedia movement because our movement is a diverse field that is based on the idea of "commons" [4], and I feel that the Wikimedia Blog is one of those commons. As I see it now the blog sits in the middle of the community, and although it is run by the WMF, it can be seen as a shared space between the WMF, the affiliates, and the community. By moving the blog to the WMF site, the blog would lose its status as a commons and it would become "the blog of the WMF". I think that if the WMF wants a blog, they can create a new one, but they should leave the existing blog as it is, as a shared space.
Intentions like this makes me think that in the WMF there is not enough "wisdom", that strange quality that I am trying to make important in our movement without much success [5]. This lack of wisdom is not only present in the WMF, also in our movement I percieve, if not lack of wisdom, at least lack of empathy [6]. It saddens me and it makes me stressed.
Issues like this one about the blog make me think that the movement needs dedicated people that cultivate wisdom and encyclopedic knowledge about the movement (I might have the former, but not the later), and that we put the qualities of those people to the service of our community. I feel like a little kid who wants to play a nice game with his friends, and then he sees a big bulldozer coming to destroy his playing field. If it is not clear for you, the "bulldozer" is how I see the "corporate WMF" coming to destroy the soul of what I love most.
Tracking these kind of "behind the scenes" events takes me too much time. I feel that I have reached more than the maximum of my capacity as a "volunteer" (ha, what a joke of a word), and that I would risk losing my current job if I am caught again participating in the Wikimedia projects during my work hours, which I do without restrain. Not only that, it also takes most of my waking time, specially because the movement has grown so big that I feel overwhelmed in my capacity as metapedian [7]. I also feel that it has started affecting my mental health. I do not know if I am the only one, but as it is right now contributing to the Wikimedia projects is *very* stressful, and since it is my main activity, I don't have time to wind down, and since I do it as a "volunteer", I do not have free time to recover. I also fear that if I would not do it myself nobody else would do it, and if nobody would take their individual responsibility seriously, then nobody would care for the good things in this world, and if nobody would take care of the good things in this world, then we better start saying goodbye to it RIGHT NOW, because the world is a fucking mess and nobody is standing up to say the things as they are, or as they should be.
I spent 14 years of my life in the Wikimedia projects with various degrees of involvement, working for free, and receiving compensation [8], and I must say that the quality of my work has been exactly the same, my responsability has been exactly the same, and it never mattered if I hold a position of "power" or not, I always acted exactly the same, the only thing that has changed is my "awareness", and my capacity to listen, which allows me to have more effective conversations that build real consensus [9]. I say all that because many people in this movement seem to have an issue with money. Get over it guys. It is just a tool, like a computer, like a hammer, like whatever tool you want to imagine. You take it, you use it, and then you forget about it. That is the way it should be done. All the rest is stories that people have in their heads that are totally wrong and misinformed.
To go back to the topic of the Wikimedia Blog, I believe that, as one above the average wise people said, "the best that can come from it is that nothing happens". I don't think it is done with bad intentions. I trust Ed as a reputable member of the community, but I do believe that I am suffering as a result of his lack of awareness.
So to anyone that feels part of the community and is reading this message, I would like to ask you to express your view if you really care about all the things that I am saying here. If you don't have much to say, or you don't feel that you can't add much to the conversation, a simple "I hear you, I support you" or something in those lines would make a big difference for me.
Thank you, Micru
[1] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T193912 [2] https://blog.wikimedia.org/ [3] https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimedia_Blog&oldid=175633... [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commons [5] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Micru/Draft_RFC [6] https://es.wikivoyage.org/w/index.php?title=Wikiviajes:Tabl%C3%B3n_de_anunci... [7] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Metapedianism [8] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Elaborate_Wikisource_strategic_vi... [9] https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata_talk:Lexicographical_data#Replacing_l...
Hi David! As always, I appreciate your wisdom and thoughtfulness. I don't understand the issue at hand, however. A change from blog.wm.org to blog.wmf.org? Something else?
We do surely need to help individual metapedians grow, mentor, become more effective over time, without becoming overwhelmed.
Warmly, SJ
On Fri 8 Jun, 2018, 6:26 PM David Cuenca Tudela, dacuetu@gmail.com wrote:
Since Ed Erhart didn't honor my request of posting in this mailing lists to discuss the plans to appropriate the Wikimedia Blog for the Wikimedia Foundation [1] (although I would have preferred that he had done it himself as he is the visible face behind this change, and therefore the burden of proof is on him to prove to the community that this is the right change), I am posting to this list with the hope that it can be discussed with people for whom these things matter.
The Wikimedia Blog [2] has the title "News from Wikipedia and the Wikimedia movement", and in case you don't know it it is run by the WMF [3]. This blog has been operating under the existing URL for many years, and I believe there was a general satisfaction with the way is run, the quality of the stories, the amount, etc. However, as I mentioned in the Phabricator ticket [1] I find the idea of moving the blog to the Wikimedia Foundation site not adequate and not in the spirit of the Wikimedia movement.
I do not find the intention to move the blog to the WMF site to be in the spirit of the Wikimedia movement because our movement is a diverse field that is based on the idea of "commons" [4], and I feel that the Wikimedia Blog is one of those commons. As I see it now the blog sits in the middle of the community, and although it is run by the WMF, it can be seen as a shared space between the WMF, the affiliates, and the community. By moving the blog to the WMF site, the blog would lose its status as a commons and it would become "the blog of the WMF". I think that if the WMF wants a blog, they can create a new one, but they should leave the existing blog as it is, as a shared space.
Intentions like this makes me think that in the WMF there is not enough "wisdom", that strange quality that I am trying to make important in our movement without much success [5]. This lack of wisdom is not only present in the WMF, also in our movement I percieve, if not lack of wisdom, at least lack of empathy [6]. It saddens me and it makes me stressed.
Issues like this one about the blog make me think that the movement needs dedicated people that cultivate wisdom and encyclopedic knowledge about the movement (I might have the former, but not the later), and that we put the qualities of those people to the service of our community. I feel like a little kid who wants to play a nice game with his friends, and then he sees a big bulldozer coming to destroy his playing field. If it is not clear for you, the "bulldozer" is how I see the "corporate WMF" coming to destroy the soul of what I love most.
Tracking these kind of "behind the scenes" events takes me too much time. I feel that I have reached more than the maximum of my capacity as a "volunteer" (ha, what a joke of a word), and that I would risk losing my current job if I am caught again participating in the Wikimedia projects during my work hours, which I do without restrain. Not only that, it also takes most of my waking time, specially because the movement has grown so big that I feel overwhelmed in my capacity as metapedian [7]. I also feel that it has started affecting my mental health. I do not know if I am the only one, but as it is right now contributing to the Wikimedia projects is *very* stressful, and since it is my main activity, I don't have time to wind down, and since I do it as a "volunteer", I do not have free time to recover. I also fear that if I would not do it myself nobody else would do it, and if nobody would take their individual responsibility seriously, then nobody would care for the good things in this world, and if nobody would take care of the good things in this world, then we better start saying goodbye to it RIGHT NOW, because the world is a fucking mess and nobody is standing up to say the things as they are, or as they should be.
I spent 14 years of my life in the Wikimedia projects with various degrees of involvement, working for free, and receiving compensation [8], and I must say that the quality of my work has been exactly the same, my responsability has been exactly the same, and it never mattered if I hold a position of "power" or not, I always acted exactly the same, the only thing that has changed is my "awareness", and my capacity to listen, which allows me to have more effective conversations that build real consensus [9]. I say all that because many people in this movement seem to have an issue with money. Get over it guys. It is just a tool, like a computer, like a hammer, like whatever tool you want to imagine. You take it, you use it, and then you forget about it. That is the way it should be done. All the rest is stories that people have in their heads that are totally wrong and misinformed.
To go back to the topic of the Wikimedia Blog, I believe that, as one above the average wise people said, "the best that can come from it is that nothing happens". I don't think it is done with bad intentions. I trust Ed as a reputable member of the community, but I do believe that I am suffering as a result of his lack of awareness.
So to anyone that feels part of the community and is reading this message, I would like to ask you to express your view if you really care about all the things that I am saying here. If you don't have much to say, or you don't feel that you can't add much to the conversation, a simple "I hear you, I support you" or something in those lines would make a big difference for me.
Thank you, Micru
[1] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T193912 [2] https://blog.wikimedia.org/ [3] https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimedia_Blog&oldid=175633... [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commons [5] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Micru/Draft_RFC [6]
https://es.wikivoyage.org/w/index.php?title=Wikiviajes:Tabl%C3%B3n_de_anunci... [7] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Metapedianism [8]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Elaborate_Wikisource_strategic_vi... [9]
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata_talk:Lexicographical_data#Replacing_l... _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Hi Micru,
It sounds to me like there are a few different topics that are on your mind. I'm wondering if it might help to clarify the situation if we could meet on Hangouts for some near-real-time communication. I'd be glad to try to find a time to meet with you. I'll be coming and going from the Internet for the next few hours, and if you happen to be online then I'd be glad to talk with you on Hangouts for a voice conversation when we're both available. Please feel free to send me a text message on Hangouts if you're available and would be interested in having a conversation there. I may not respond immediately, but I should respond within half an hour of receiving your message.
Personally, I am looking forward to seeing the new WMF website, and I generally have a positive view of Ed Erhart. The topic of where certain publications should be posted is a complicated one, and I would like to hear your perspective.
Hi David, we're not good friends, we saw each other in real life very few times, in Berlin and in Hong Kong, but I always remember our work for the Wikisource IEG¹ one of the coolest projects I've ever done in my life as a wikimedian. We did well, I think, even if our results were small and there was a need of some follow up work that didn't actually happen, even if I recall it as a failure². I'm writing here in the spirit of our movement: we like common things, and I think yours is a common struggle. I hope this little advice is at least bit helpful, and hopefully not for you alone.
I think that you're misinterpreting the role of the Wikimedia movement in your life. Wikimedia can be an amazing place where you can find friends, a community of peers, like-minded altruistic people, maybe even love, but never, never, never *purpose*. You can find purpose in other, more concrete and especially more close things: family, friends, relationships, love, good careers, children, you name it. Wikimedia can be a great, awesome *accessory*, but it will never replace those black holes that everyone of us stares in our lives. Everytime I've seen this happen, everytime I've seen people trying to put everything they had in Wikimedia, I've worried. I know quite well this feeling: it took me quite a few years to understand my own relationship with wikimedia was not ideal, and it was sucking life out of me. As a chairman of a chapter I was quite stressed, and above all I saw that wiki things constantly conflicted with other things in my life. Eventually, I gave up, because I saw that this path as not going to end well.
I've even seen few members of our community took their own life: some of them were heavily invested in our wiki movement. Although I don't think Wikimedia was the reason, I think it had became part of the problem: often, people try to find something in Wikimedia that Wikimedia cannot actually provide. Sometimes it's even the contrary: the more you give to wiki the more it will ask you: we strive for "world domination", we want an impossible thing, enormous thing all together. We want to give free access to the all human knowledge to everyone, and we do this as a hobby. It's a dream, and you work towards it: it's not something that you will ever achieve. We've done incredible things in the last 18 years: but we always get this feeling that we haven't even started yet... This leaves a lot of room for stress, for anxiety, for not working properly and break things. You don't want to do that.
So, I'd encourage you (I'm encouraging everyone of us, myself included) to pick your battles, check your priorities, start from the fundamentals: health first, work first, daily important relationships first. You need money to live, eat, pay your bills: don't put yourself in a worse position than your current one.
You come first than Wikimedia. You can't do good if there's no "you" in the first place. I mean it.
I hope this helps, Aubrey
¹ https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Elaborate_ Wikisource_strategic_vision https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Elaborate_Wikisource_strategic_vision/Finances ² To be fair, I think we did a good job, and I think that WMF bears responsability in the "failure" of the project. But it's not important now.
On Sat, Jun 9, 2018 at 4:23 AM, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Micru,
It sounds to me like there are a few different topics that are on your mind. I'm wondering if it might help to clarify the situation if we could meet on Hangouts for some near-real-time communication. I'd be glad to try to find a time to meet with you. I'll be coming and going from the Internet for the next few hours, and if you happen to be online then I'd be glad to talk with you on Hangouts for a voice conversation when we're both available. Please feel free to send me a text message on Hangouts if you're available and would be interested in having a conversation there. I may not respond immediately, but I should respond within half an hour of receiving your message.
Personally, I am looking forward to seeing the new WMF website, and I generally have a positive view of Ed Erhart. The topic of where certain publications should be posted is a complicated one, and I would like to hear your perspective.
Pine ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine ) _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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