Hello,
There's a bit of discussion about deleting old versions of fair-use files in the Hebrew Wikipedia and it may be interesting to other projects as well.
The main questions is: Should old versions of fair-use files be deleted? The two main points that support the deletion are that it saves space on the server and that keeping a version of a non-free file violates the fair use policy, because the old version of the image can be viewed, but is not actually used in any relevant article.
The first point, about saving server space, is probably irrelevant, because to the best of my understanding, space is a cheap asset in the first place, and the file is not actually deleted, but only has its description in the database changed to hide it from non-sysop users, so the deletion actually adds to the server load, although not much. (Correct me if i'm wrong.)
But what about fair use validity? Since i am not a copyright lawyer - and really don't want to be one - this is something that should be answered by more knowledgeable people.
Also, are there policies about this in other projects? Commons is irrelevant and i couldn't find anything about it in the English Wikipedia. If from the legal point of view old versions of non-free files should be deleted, then it probably should be implemented in all projects. (I would hate it and i apologize in advance for opening this Pandora's box.)
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com "We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace." - T. Moore
"The two main points that support the deletion are that it saves space on the server"
No, it does not, The file is just moved elsewhere on the server where it isn't directly accessible.
On 5/30/2011 2:32 PM, Amir E. Aharoni wrote:
Hello,
There's a bit of discussion about deleting old versions of fair-use files in the Hebrew Wikipedia and it may be interesting to other projects as well.
The main questions is: Should old versions of fair-use files be deleted? The two main points that support the deletion are that it saves space on the server and that keeping a version of a non-free file violates the fair use policy, because the old version of the image can be viewed, but is not actually used in any relevant article.
I just want to see if I understand this correctly. Is this a reference to files where the current revision is included in some article based on a fair use rationale, but the file also has earlier versions that are not so used? As opposed to a file that was previously used in an article, but is no longer used at all. In the latter situation, it's hard to make a fair use argument because there is no actual use case to point to, and I think the consensus has been that those files should be deleted, consistent with our policies limiting the exemptions for non-free content.
For the first case, there's at least a plausible rationale that consistent with how MediaWiki operates, its public record of how the file was derived could be acceptable, including modifications that may be indicated by the file history. It might, for example, indicate how the current revision is a sufficiently "transformative" use to qualify as fair use, enough to justify the limited "use" of the otherwise unused old revision. Of course, if you start an analysis based on revision histories like that, you might also conclude that "unused" fair use files can be kept because they were used in previous revisions of articles.
That's primarily an abstract theoretical response, and without some concrete examples to look at I don't really have much of an opinion on which direction we should resolve the question. Nor have I tried to consider how persuasive a court would find potential arguments on either side.
--Michael Snow
2011/5/31 Michael Snow wikipedia@frontier.com:
On 5/30/2011 2:32 PM, Amir E. Aharoni wrote:
Hello,
There's a bit of discussion about deleting old versions of fair-use files in the Hebrew Wikipedia and it may be interesting to other projects as well.
The main questions is: Should old versions of fair-use files be deleted? The two main points that support the deletion are that it saves space on the server and that keeping a version of a non-free file violates the fair use policy, because the old version of the image can be viewed, but is not actually used in any relevant article.
I just want to see if I understand this correctly. Is this a reference to files where the current revision is included in some article based on a fair use rationale, but the file also has earlier versions that are not so used?
Yes, that's exactly what i referred to.
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com "We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace." - T. Moore
Hello Amir,
on zh-wp we delete the old version. The old version is no more used at all, and thus no more fair to keep them. Still provide them so that users can find them and copy them looks for me like distributing copy violated content.
Greetings Ting
On 31.05.2011 08:16, wrote Amir E. Aharoni:
2011/5/31 Michael Snowwikipedia@frontier.com:
On 5/30/2011 2:32 PM, Amir E. Aharoni wrote:
Hello,
There's a bit of discussion about deleting old versions of fair-use files in the Hebrew Wikipedia and it may be interesting to other projects as well.
The main questions is: Should old versions of fair-use files be deleted? The two main points that support the deletion are that it saves space on the server and that keeping a version of a non-free file violates the fair use policy, because the old version of the image can be viewed, but is not actually used in any relevant article.
I just want to see if I understand this correctly. Is this a reference to files where the current revision is included in some article based on a fair use rationale, but the file also has earlier versions that are not so used?
Yes, that's exactly what i referred to.
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com "We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace." - T. Moore
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