I had wanted to keep out of this, but this is the third or fourth time that Jan-Bart has been referred to as "Jan". It was an understandable enough mistake to make the first time, but it's been pointed out enough now that that is no longer an excuse. We do not all have to be best of mates, but it is not unreasonable that we all should show some basic courtesy towards each other, and taking the time to get each other's names right would be a good start.
If you feel that Jan-Bart is being condescending towards you, the best solution to that problem is not more condescension thrown back in the opposite direction.
Cheers, Craig
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 16:07:23 -0200 From: B?ria Lima berialima@gmail.com To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Movement roles letter, Feb 2012 Message-ID: CAA2XHjAg+ummRKsKHE82haTxKOcycXm_tSmKB6nMn36MKDJxmw@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Jan
Provide me a link to work and I will gladly tell on wiki how much your idea sucks and how I come up with a better one without dismiss community opinion and being condescending like you.
Here we can't solve anything. _____ *B?ria Lima
Gomà called him Jan at least 3 times today and no one complained.
Everyone in Brazil calls me "B" (yah, just the first letter) and here is VERY common to shortening people's names. Is more a way to write it fast than to offend anyone. I can call him Mister de Vreede if you all find this ok, but that would be even more condescending (In my country we only threat people we really dislike by their last name). _____ *Béria Lima*
*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos*
On 15 February 2012 23:09, Craig Franklin craig@halo-17.net wrote:
I had wanted to keep out of this, but this is the third or fourth time that Jan-Bart has been referred to as "Jan". It was an understandable enough mistake to make the first time, but it's been pointed out enough now that that is no longer an excuse. We do not all have to be best of mates, but it is not unreasonable that we all should show some basic courtesy towards each other, and taking the time to get each other's names right would be a good start.
If you feel that Jan-Bart is being condescending towards you, the best solution to that problem is not more condescension thrown back in the opposite direction.
Cheers, Craig
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 16:07:23 -0200 From: B?ria Lima berialima@gmail.com To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Movement roles letter, Feb 2012 Message-ID: <
CAA2XHjAg+ummRKsKHE82haTxKOcycXm_tSmKB6nMn36MKDJxmw@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Jan
Provide me a link to work and I will gladly tell on wiki how much your
idea
sucks and how I come up with a better one without dismiss community
opinion
and being condescending like you.
Here we can't solve anything. _____ *B?ria Lima
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 11:09 PM, Béria Lima berialima@gmail.com wrote:
Gomà called him Jan at least 3 times today and no one complained.
Everyone in Brazil calls me "B" (yah, just the first letter) and here is VERY common to shortening people's names. Is more a way to write it fast than to offend anyone. I can call him Mister de Vreede if you all find this ok, but that would be even more condescending (In my country we only threat people we really dislike by their last name). _____ *Béria Lima*
Jan-Bart and others have asked that you call him Jan-Bart. What part of that is confusing? You can ascribe your first error to different custom; continuing to ignore his wishes is simply arrogant and offensive, which of course I'm sure is not your intent.
Beria,
You're behavior is simply unacceptable. Are you going to apologize to Jan-Bart or simply continue with your baseless justifications on why you are calling him this and not that?
Abbas.
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 23:14:55 -0500 From: nawrich@gmail.com To: foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Movement roles letter, Feb 2012
On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 11:09 PM, Béria Lima berialima@gmail.com wrote:
Gomà called him Jan at least 3 times today and no one complained.
Everyone in Brazil calls me "B" (yah, just the first letter) and here is VERY common to shortening people's names. Is more a way to write it fast than to offend anyone. I can call him Mister de Vreede if you all find this ok, but that would be even more condescending (In my country we only threat people we really dislike by their last name). _____ *Béria Lima*
Jan-Bart and others have asked that you call him Jan-Bart. What part of that is confusing? You can ascribe your first error to different custom; continuing to ignore his wishes is simply arrogant and offensive, which of course I'm sure is not your intent. _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
No I will not apologize for act according with my culture.
If Mister de Vreede has a problem with people from different cultures he shouldn't be part of a international movement.
(And besides if someone would complain about misspelling, the Russians, Arabs, Japanese and Indians should be the ones since no one here can even write their real names in the original languages) _____ *Béria Lima*
*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos*
On 16 February 2012 03:15, Abbas Mahmood abbasjnr@hotmail.com wrote:
Beria,
You're behavior is simply unacceptable. Are you going to apologize to Jan-Bart or simply continue with your baseless justifications on why you are calling him this and not that?
Abbas.
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 23:14:55 -0500 From: nawrich@gmail.com To: foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Movement roles letter, Feb 2012
On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 11:09 PM, Béria Lima berialima@gmail.com
wrote:
Gomà called him Jan at least 3 times today and no one complained.
Everyone in Brazil calls me "B" (yah, just the first letter) and here
is
VERY common to shortening people's names. Is more a way to write it
fast
than to offend anyone. I can call him Mister de Vreede if you all find
this
ok, but that would be even more condescending (In my country we only
threat
people we really dislike by their last name). _____ *Béria Lima*
Jan-Bart and others have asked that you call him Jan-Bart. What part of that is confusing? You can ascribe your first error to different custom; continuing to ignore his wishes is simply arrogant and offensive, which
of
course I'm sure is not your intent. _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
From: berialima@gmail.com Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 14:52:24 -0200 To: foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Movement roles letter, Feb 2012
(And besides if someone would complain about misspelling, the Russians, Arabs, Japanese and Indians should be the ones since no one here can even write their real names in the original languages)
No one? Really? My name is an Arabic name and even though I'm not an Arab, I can write Arabic names perfectly well. Your assumption is merely stereotypical. --Abbas.
On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 11:52 AM, Béria Lima berialima@gmail.com wrote:
No I will not apologize for act according with my culture.
If Mister de Vreede has a problem with people from different cultures he shouldn't be part of a international movement.
(And besides if someone would complain about misspelling, the Russians, Arabs, Japanese and Indians should be the ones since no one here can even write their real names in the original languages)
It's incredible that such a childish debate has to occur. I suggest that if you refuse to refrain from intentionally offending other list participants, your privilege to post should be revoked.
On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 17:52, Béria Lima berialima@gmail.com wrote:
No I will not apologize for act according with my culture.
If Mister de Vreede has a problem with people from different cultures he shouldn't be part of a international movement.
(And besides if someone would complain about misspelling, the Russians, Arabs, Japanese and Indians should be the ones since no one here can even write their real names in the original languages)
While I sympathize with your position (if not derogatory, I think that any name is acceptable while it denominates the person clearly), you should accept it as-is. (At the other side, I don't think that cultural misunderstandings should be fixed by apologizing. Here. Beria simply doesn't understand where the problem is.)
I wouldn't comment Jan-Bart's wish, but I have comparable position toward usage of particular words: If email in my inbox begins with "Dear Milos" (especially in Serbian) by a person not so close to me, I would treat it as over-formal tone. (One of my friends sends such emails to trash automatically.) I would automatically have negative attitude toward that person. There are a couple of other wrong beginnings of email if someone wants my [positive] attention. "Dear Sir" (literally in Serbian "Respected Mister") is worse than "Dear Milos", for example.
But, particular rule has different meaning in particular circumstances. For example, if one French or American starts email with "Dear Milos", I would treat it as their cultural characteristic and I wouldn't have such negative attitude as if I heard it from one Serbian. If I get it from you, Beria, I would ask you if everything is OK with you. If I get a genuine email from one person from Sub-Saharan Africa email with "Dear Sir", I wouldn't complain about it, as I would assume that it's his or her best attempt to be polite. If I get it from you, I would think that your email account has been hijacked by spammers.
Note that I don't care a lot about words and that I wouldn't complain, but just make my position toward the person which sent email to me. Some people, culturally or personally, have stronger emotions toward naming conventions. Which means that the safest method for using particular words in communication with someone is to ask that person.
On Fri, 17 Feb 2012 00:07:15 +0100, Milos Rancic millosh@gmail.com wrote:
I wouldn't comment Jan-Bart's wish, but I have comparable position toward usage of particular words: If email in my inbox begins with "Dear Milos" (especially in Serbian) by a person not so close to me, I would treat it as over-formal tone. (One of my friends sends such emails to trash automatically.) I would automatically have negative attitude toward that person. There are a couple of other wrong beginnings of email if someone wants my [positive] attention. "Dear Sir" (literally in Serbian "Respected Mister") is worse than "Dear Milos", for example.
Now I am pretty sure I must have written "Dear Milos" on several occasions, since this is what I normally would write. I hope it was fine. Or may be these mails have gone to trash.
I personally have my name misspelt so often that I do not care anymore. If people insist on misspelling it I try to remind tactfully.
Cheers Yaroslav
Am I the one person feeling that the way this debate is going in a stupid direction that is totally irrelevant to the scope of this list ? I thought we were to discuss " Movement roles letter, Feb 2012 ". Just a gentle reminder ! :P
Regards Tinu Cherian
On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 2:56 PM, Yaroslav M. Blanter putevod@mccme.ruwrote:
On Fri, 17 Feb 2012 00:07:15 +0100, Milos Rancic millosh@gmail.com wrote:
I wouldn't comment Jan-Bart's wish, but I have comparable position toward usage of particular words: If email in my inbox begins with "Dear Milos" (especially in Serbian) by a person not so close to me, I would treat it as over-formal tone. (One of my friends sends such emails to trash automatically.) I would automatically have negative attitude toward that person. There are a couple of other wrong beginnings of email if someone wants my [positive] attention. "Dear Sir" (literally in Serbian "Respected Mister") is worse than "Dear Milos", for example.
Now I am pretty sure I must have written "Dear Milos" on several occasions, since this is what I normally would write. I hope it was fine. Or may be these mails have gone to trash.
I personally have my name misspelt so often that I do not care anymore. If people insist on misspelling it I try to remind tactfully.
Cheers Yaroslav
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 20:18:20 +0530, CherianTinu Abraham tinucherian@gmail.com wrote:
Am I the one person feeling that the way this debate is going in a
stupid
direction that is totally irrelevant to the scope of this list ? I thought we were to discuss " Movement roles letter, Feb 2012 ". Just a gentle reminder ! :P
Regards Tinu Cherian
Apparently, somebody decided that internal-l is a more appropriate place to discuss Movement roles letter, and Meta should be used for suggestions, and thus what is left for foundation-l is whether it is appropriate to deliberately offend other posters. I left several suggestions on Meta couple of days ago, they did not generate much of discussion.
Cheers Yaroslav
On 18 February 2012 14:48, CherianTinu Abraham tinucherian@gmail.com wrote:
Am I the one person feeling that the way this debate is going in a stupid direction that is totally irrelevant to the scope of this list ? I thought we were to discuss " Movement roles letter, Feb 2012 ". Just a gentle reminder ! :P
I'm quite enjoying this thread... it makes a nice change from going round in circles as we have been doing for the last month or two.
On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 5:14 AM, Nathan nawrich@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 11:09 PM, Béria Lima berialima@gmail.com wrote:
Jan-Bart and others have asked that you call him Jan-Bart. What part of that is confusing? You can ascribe your first error to different custom; continuing to ignore his wishes is simply arrogant and offensive, which of course I'm sure is not your intent.
In case of problem I may give you any freedom to mispell my name and my surname as many time you want, if this helps to stop here any further discussion around a name.
I am experienced about that and I live already in a conflict of identity.
I may offer myself like punchball of the mispelled name.
Ilario aka Illario (mainly for German speakers) aka Ilarion aka Flavio aka Florio aka Ilaria aka Lario Valdelli aka Vandelli aka Baldelli aka Valdella aka Valdell
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