I find the remover of James very disappointing. He was elected by the community and his remover should follow a due process and be transparent to the community who elected him.
Olatunde Isaac
(User:Wikicology) Sent from my BlackBerry wireless device from MTN
-----Original Message----- From: wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org Sender: "Wikimedia-l" wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.orgDate: Tue, 29 Dec 2015 17:40:01 To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Reply-To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Wikimedia-l Digest, Vol 141, Issue 97
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Announcement about changes to the Board (rupert THURNER) 2. Re: Announcement about changes to the Board (Steinsplitter Wiki) 3. Re: Call for Board nominees (Pine W) 4. Re: Quality issues (Jane Darnell) 5. Re: Quality issues (Jane Darnell)
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Message: 1 Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2015 16:51:14 +0100 From: rupert THURNER rupert.thurner@gmail.com To: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement about changes to the Board Message-ID: CAJs9aZ8RcYJc47N8qYoSzr7xqzXB6T-WktqVKNQ=hbGv_uu18g@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 4:00 PM, MZMcBride z@mzmcbride.com wrote:
issue here. This is hardly unusual. Regarding the removal itself, at least in the United States, it's fairly common for members of a body to be able to remove/expel one of their own. The Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees bylaws explicitly allow for removal of a member, with or without cause. Unlike in older Board resolutions, there's a clear public accounting of how each of the Board members voted (as opposed to simple numeric totals). James posted that he will work with Patricio to provide
like others on this thread i think the WMF bylaws are broken in this respect. not legally broken, but morally. i'd love to vote for a trustee, and i'd love to reverse my decision in case a sufficient party is not happy. if in this case james does not want to have a public discussion he is free to resign. if the board thinks it cannot work with james anymore, and is able to remove him without him beeing ok with it, without public discussion, then i do not find it transparent.
best, rupert
------------------------------
Message: 2 Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2015 16:56:43 +0100 From: Steinsplitter Wiki steinsplitter-wiki@live.com To: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement about changes to the Board Message-ID: DUB124-W19BF467A877C981D098121E6FC0@phx.gbl Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
The removal is not transparent at all.
Apart from that James was community elected. A democracy words different.
Very disappointing.
From: rupert.thurner@gmail.com Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2015 16:51:14 +0100 To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement about changes to the Board
On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 4:00 PM, MZMcBride z@mzmcbride.com wrote:
issue here. This is hardly unusual. Regarding the removal itself, at least in the United States, it's fairly common for members of a body to be able to remove/expel one of their own. The Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees bylaws explicitly allow for removal of a member, with or without cause. Unlike in older Board resolutions, there's a clear public accounting of how each of the Board members voted (as opposed to simple numeric totals). James posted that he will work with Patricio to provide
like others on this thread i think the WMF bylaws are broken in this respect. not legally broken, but morally. i'd love to vote for a trustee, and i'd love to reverse my decision in case a sufficient party is not happy. if in this case james does not want to have a public discussion he is free to resign. if the board thinks it cannot work with james anymore, and is able to remove him without him beeing ok with it, without public discussion, then i do not find it transparent.
best, rupert
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Message: 3 Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2015 09:08:09 -0800 From: Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com To: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, Boryana Dineva boryana@wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Call for Board nominees Message-ID: CAF=dyJiadguRYSWufH97PoLnhxmAQKdBPNPFrzW2V6YbT+sADg@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Hi Board folks and Boryana,
Separate from the discussions about Doc James, can we get an update on the appointment of new members?
Thanks, Pine On Sep 25, 2015 5:04 PM, "Boryana Dineva" boryana@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hello everyone,
As you may have heard, I joined the Wikimedia Foundation last Monday as the VP of Human Resources. I am so excited to be here and help to the best of my abilities.
One of the projects that I am currently focusing on is adding two members to our board of trustees. I wanted to reach out to you and ask you to nominate candidates that you think should be considered.
I am attaching a role description that will provide more insight into what the ideal candidates for these two board slots would be. If someone you know comes to mind, please send the name of the candidate including some information regarding why you think they would be great. Also let me know if you know that person is interested in the position and can afford the time commitment the role will require or if it’s someone you think may be great but are unsure if they are interested or would have time to commit.
Please email nominations to board-nominations@lists.wikimedia.org by next Wednesday, Sept 30th. I understand that this is a short notice and not much time to nominate, but we need to find someone that can start in Nov and we need to contact, screen, interview, etc before then.
Thank you in advance for your nominations and have a wonderful weekend!
Warmest regards, Boryana _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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Message: 4 Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2015 18:33:47 +0100 From: Jane Darnell jane023@gmail.com To: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Quality issues Message-ID: CAFVcA-ER+ZdtLHnU+YO+5_PrOfM8FCSpteau62S7J9D6n08DeQ@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Interesting link, thanks Gerard! I was referring to a citation for this quote however: "and a
significant
selection of the information unsourced WikiDatas data lacks the quality, integrity we all expect of ourselves when we add content to any of the projects."
On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 1:35 PM, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
http://www.amnesty.nl/sites/default/files/public/ainl_guidelines_use_of_forc...
On 29 December 2015 at 13:30, Jane Darnell jane023@gmail.com wrote:
citation needed
On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 1:27 PM, Gnangarra gnangarra@gmail.com wrote:
This is when sources truly become vital. But do remember, the POV of the USA and many of its sources are as suspect
as
those from Kazakhstan.
And that is why regardless of the fact a citation is so important,
because the person receiving the information must able to make their
own
assessment of the sources reliability with a CC0 license and a
significant
selection of the information unsourced WikiDatas data lacks the
quality,
integrity we all expect of ourselves when we add content to any of the projects.
On 29 December 2015 at 20:15, Gerard Meijssen <
gerard.meijssen@gmail.com
wrote:
Hoi, So you have determined that people can be manipulated. Good, then
what?
If this is the tack that you take you will be grounded because there
is
no
plan. It is a negative attitude that only stifles. Quality is not
only
in
sources, sources can be and are manipulations in their own right.
Many
important subjects are woefully underrepresented. The argument has it
that
it is because of a lack of sources..
Sources are relevant but we only are interested in particular
subjects.
We
do not need to look at Kazakhstan to find fault. Amnest (reliable
source)
indicates that all USA police forces are not in compliance with international agreements on the use of force. NOW WHAT ??
When quality is the subject, it is important to decide how we
effectively
improve quality. VIAF provided Wikidata with a list of issues they
found.
Tom checked it out and our quality is better as a result. It means
that
more information is linked for people who visit a library. When
awards
are
known, adding known recipients in Wikidata based on info from
multiple
Wikipedias improves the quality and in this way many incorrect links
are
exposed.
When quality of our projects is the subject, decide how we can do a
better
job. When Facebook invites companies to manipulate people, it is why Facebook information is suspect. At most it is a reminder that
manipulation
is an important issue. It does not mean that people cannot add data
on
their hobby horse.
Quality is important but quality is more than sources. When sources
are
used as an argument that is detrimental to the quality of Wikidata,
then
in
my opinion we have forgotten why Wikipedia was possible in the first
place.
It was not because of sources, it was because of the web of
information
we
created, a web that is of a NPOV.
Wikidata does not have a NPOV. It represents facts found in many
places.
As
the information becomes more extended, it becomes possible to find manipulations, errors. This is when sources truly become vital. But
do
remember, the POV of the USA and many of its sources are as suspect
as
those from Kazakhstan. Thanks, GerardM
On 29 December 2015 at 11:44, Lilburne <lilburne@tygers-of-wrath.net
wrote:
On 28/12/2015 18:00, Jane Darnell wrote:
All I said is that the wiki way works, that's all. You can't hide
it
when
someone tries to take over a project, and that is the reason we
shouldn't
try to anticipate that with convoluted strategies. "Assume Good
Faith"
will always win out over any strange misguided takeover strategy, which
is
why
governments that intend to do such things choose nowadays to just
block
wikimedia altogether. It is not our wake-up call to take, but that
of
the
Kazakh people.
Facebook showed the other year that it could manipulate people by
what
it
showed them in their feeds.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/facebook/10932534/Facebook-conducted-s...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-28051930
They didn't do this for fun, they did it to show their clients (advertisers, governments) that they could manipulate millions of
people.
You only need a small push in one direction or another to
influence a
large
population. Doesn't matter if the push is to buy a particular soap,
vote
one way or another, or how you see a particular minority, or issue.
http://www.networkworld.com/article/2450825/big-data-business-intelligence/f...
Do it to a naively trusted source and you have a triple word score jackpot^H^H^Hboot.
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Message: 5 Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2015 18:39:58 +0100 From: Jane Darnell jane023@gmail.com To: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Quality issues Message-ID: CAFVcA-F3-G-4n6994=W9Ou_LxwgnR4cOCsuhs7RiLFWYJPQPdQ@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
...and you seem to think one can live by an encyclopedia. I can assure you, Wikipedia is a lot of things, but it is not a way of life. To answer your fear which I read between the lines of what you are saying, in order to create a Wikipedia project you need a basic list of 10,000 articles. The list as I am sure you are aware, is a pretty boring and strangely ordered grouping of fairly dry, non-political subjects. I believe there are very few articles on there that are worth firebombing someone over. [[Michael Jackson]] is on the list, among other notable Americans. Granted, you could get past the 10,000 article startup requirement somehow and then start creating lots of POV articles, but once you do this you will soon be discovered. There is just no way to hide it.
On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 3:18 PM, Andreas Kolbe jayen466@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 10:44 AM, Lilburne lilburne@tygers-of-wrath.net wrote:
On 28/12/2015 18:00, Jane Darnell wrote:
All I said is that the wiki way works, that's all. You can't hide it
when
someone tries to take over a project, and that is the reason we
shouldn't
try to anticipate that with convoluted strategies. "Assume Good Faith" will always win out over any strange misguided takeover strategy, which is
why
governments that intend to do such things choose nowadays to just block wikimedia altogether. It is not our wake-up call to take, but that of
the
Kazakh people.
Facebook showed the other year that it could manipulate people by what it showed them in their feeds.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/facebook/10932534/Facebook-conducted-s...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-28051930
They didn't do this for fun, they did it to show their clients (advertisers, governments) that they could manipulate millions of people. You only need a small push in one direction or another to influence a
large
population. Doesn't matter if the push is to buy a particular soap, vote one way or another, or how you see a particular minority, or issue.
http://www.networkworld.com/article/2450825/big-data-business-intelligence/f...
Do it to a naively trusted source and you have a triple word score jackpot^H^H^Hboot.
I thought Epstein's and Robertson's paper, "The search engine manipulation effect (SEME) and its possible impact on the outcomes of elections", was very interesting as well:
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/08/how-google-could-rig-the-2016...
http://www.pnas.org/content/112/33/E4512.abstract
On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 7:43 PM, Jane Darnell jane023@gmail.com wrote:
Well the chances of me being firebombed while on vacation in the states
are
probably higher than me being firebombed for editing Wikipedia, but that still doesn't mean we need to worry about changing the wiki model. I
guess
I have lost the thread of your point entirely now.
To be honest, I don't think you had ever gotten hold of it in the first place. To me, you seem to live in a very sheltered and naive world.
If we have reports of Wikipedians being tortured in Azerbaijan (and there seems to have been some truth to these reports, as the sysop named in them was globally blocked by the WMF a short while later[1]), you should be able to understand that it is not quite as easy to live the wiki way there as it is in your country, and that some of the assumptions you have formed based on your own experiences of the wiki model may not hold in other locales.
[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Irada&diff=12421543&am... _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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