Send Wikimedia-l mailing list submissions to wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to wikimedia-l-request(a)lists.wikimedia.org You can reach the person managing the list at wikimedia-l-owner(a)lists.wikimedia.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Wikimedia-l digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: How Wikimedia could help languages to survive (Andrea Zanni) 2. Re: How Wikimedia could help languages to survive (Chris Keating) 3. Re: How Wikimedia could help languages to survive (Amir E. Aharoni) 4. Re: How Wikimedia could help languages to survive (Milos Rancic) 5. Re: How Wikimedia could help languages to survive (Amir E. Aharoni) 6. Re: How Wikimedia could help languages to survive (Milos Rancic) 7. Re: How Wikimedia could help languages to survive (Milos Rancic) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2014 14:18:53 +0200 From: Andrea Zanni &lt;zanni.andrea84(a)gmail.com&gt; To: Wikimedia Mailing List &lt;wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org&gt; Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] How Wikimedia could help languages to survive Message-ID: <CAC=VxyZAz5t13GKr9P8zFtNztQOiMwgJo+_-eECzZ-g3w= eGQw(a)mail.gmail.com&gt; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 [snip] For the things we could do, I quote form other people: * encourage Wikisource, Commons, Wiktionary as primary projects for new/endangered languages. You could scan books or documents if the language is written, or record audio/interviews and put that on Commons if t the language is just oral. or we could do both. * we can work on a "kickstart Wikisource" workflow, we are alreading discussing this on the Wikisource mailing list (Ganesh and other Nepalese folks are interested in developing a Nepalese Wikisource). * we can work on https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Wiktionary and try to takle the huge challenge of a real semantic wiktionary using Wikidata. That's a tough one, but i can't wait it to happen. All these 3 points are mid-term and reachable. as others said, they are just tools, and for preserving a language, not make it survive. Aubrey (sorry for poor english, just before coffee) On Tue, Apr 22, 2014 at 1:30 PM, Amir E. Aharoni < amir.aharoni(a)mail.huji.ac.il&gt; wrote: the is ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2014 13:25:54 +0100 From: Chris Keating &lt;chriskeatingwiki(a)gmail.com&gt; To: Wikimedia Mailing List &lt;wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org&gt; Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] How Wikimedia could help languages to survive Message-ID: <CAFche1o5L12Qvr30cPJaCp7O47iVMF2ema6YZn=JX72W= VEgkg(a)mail.gmail.com&gt; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I'd certainly take quite a broad view of which languages fulfill our mission. Certainly I wouldn't be comfortable with arguments as simple as "All people who speak Y also read X, so there's no purpose putting resources into Y". Wikimedia UK does little work with Gaelic, but quite a bit with Welsh; I wonder if Robin Owain reads this list? He's a good person to speak to about this. Chris On Tue, Apr 22, 2014 at 12:30 PM, Amir E. Aharoni < amir.aharoni(a)mail.huji.ac.il&gt; wrote: the is ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2014 15:37:40 +0300 From: "Amir E. Aharoni" &lt;amir.aharoni(a)mail.huji.ac.il&gt; To: Wikimedia Mailing List &lt;wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org&gt; Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] How Wikimedia could help languages to survive Message-ID: <CACtNa8uNg= 1hRB8kj3LPfmbRuj139OUtP+o-wyHZ9EfM9Z1LsQ(a)mail.gmail.com&gt; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I cannot cite anything, but there should be studies that show that even though most people are "bilingual" or reported as "bilingual" in their regional language and another major language, they are more comfortable in getting education in their regional language. I'm pretty sure that there are such cases, and they should be given priority. Projects that are focused on language revitalization per se should be given less priority when resources are limited, even though it breaks my heart to say this. -- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com ‪“We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬ 2014-04-22 15:25 GMT+03:00 Chris Keating &lt;chriskeatingwiki(a)gmail.com&gt;om>: about I just a https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2014 14:43:56 +0200 From: Milos Rancic &lt;millosh(a)gmail.com&gt; To: Wikimedia Mailing List &lt;wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org&gt; Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] How Wikimedia could help languages to survive Message-ID: <CAHPiQ2FmWff_QDwew9SpW= T0nxR+eZehJZbSVeqPZ0Aa9_e46Q(a)mail.gmail.com&gt; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Tue, Apr 22, 2014 at 1:30 PM, Amir E. Aharoni &lt;amir.aharoni(a)mail.huji.ac.il&gt; wrote: the In the case of Vuk Stefanovic Karadzic, there is a not widely known fact that he was actually hard worker willing to listen others. He was a villager from Serbia, sent to Austria and Germany to learn how to help his people. In relation to gathering spoken folk tradition, he was listening brothers Grimm. But, more importantly, the ideology and actually the final form of the modern Serbian Cyrillic alphabet, as well as Vuk's logistics in Vienna were the product of a Slovene [[Jernej Kopitar]]. In our case, we need to find those hard workers all over the small ethno-linguistic communities, explain what they should do for themselves and give them logistics. That, of course, *if* they are willing to that part of job for their communities and *if* they want to build their knowledge in the form of Wikimedia projects. BTW, I know that what I said above sounds enlightenmentish, with all of the traps of that way of thinking. However, it's not about how they should live. It's about how they could adopt our technology *if* they want. ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2014 15:49:28 +0300 From: "Amir E. Aharoni" &lt;amir.aharoni(a)mail.huji.ac.il&gt; To: Wikimedia Mailing List &lt;wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org&gt; Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] How Wikimedia could help languages to survive Message-ID: < CACtNa8t_1j4H18_pg3Dq3ewDnWiAEEsZX1d+JNtN3y449vcNFw(a)mail.gmail.com&gt; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 With this I agree. If this depended on me, I'd give this resources. -- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com ‪“We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬ 2014-04-22 15:43 GMT+03:00 Milos Rancic &lt;millosh(a)gmail.com&gt;om>: I just a ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2014 14:54:31 +0200 From: Milos Rancic &lt;millosh(a)gmail.com&gt; To: Wikimedia Mailing List &lt;wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org&gt; Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] How Wikimedia could help languages to survive Message-ID: < CAHPiQ2GDW7QjD6LyTYSVNCTGjZnwSdRHqCJO55A2Y5_mfyHdZA(a)mail.gmail.com&gt; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Tue, Apr 22, 2014 at 2:37 PM, Amir E. Aharoni &lt;amir.aharoni(a)mail.huji.ac.il&gt; wrote: I don't think that we are dealing here with limited resources. After we show what we are doing and how successful we are (assuming that we'll be successful, of course :D ), I am sure that funds won't be limited just on WMF's budget. However, we are dealing with limited resources at the beginning and, basically, not seen scale of the job, with a lot of potential issues. I don't think that we'll come into the stable phase in less than five years of work. And it's true that this is enough time to see negative changes in some of the languages. ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2014 15:09:52 +0200 From: Milos Rancic &lt;millosh(a)gmail.com&gt; To: Wikimedia Mailing List &lt;wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org&gt; Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] How Wikimedia could help languages to survive Message-ID: <CAHPiQ2FOU4CQ1=_+nE22aWoz= Py4oFp1sndc1uFPGovDeFbfWw(a)mail.gmail.com&gt; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Tue, Apr 22, 2014 at 2:25 PM, Chris Keating &lt;chriskeatingwiki(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: about I mentioned Scots Gaelic with a good reason. Not counting languages with so small number of speakers, that statistics for them are not relevant and not counting Sanskrit, known to a lot of linguists, gd.wikipedia.org is Wikipedia with the highest relative number of active editors. That means that it's the best starting point to raise that number from 157 per million to ~1000 per million. If WM UK would be successful in achieving that goal, we'd know that it's possible. And we'll have some ideas how to do that. [1] http://stats.wikimedia.org/EN/Sitemap.htm ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l End of Wikimedia-l Digest, Vol 121, Issue 85 ********************************************