The Wikivoyage project is online now and i want to thank all of you who have been involved with this process.
On the former Wikivoyage project we used to have a wiki called general: for discussions that affect all language versions. I wonder why the WMF project dont have something like this. Now I am trying to find a new place where we all can: - discuss new features - discuss about the travel guide's structure - coordinate the work with templates to reduce redundant work - coordinate the work on travel maps - providing a set of English meta articles with rules and regulations that we can hand over the community when a new language version is going to start - providing a list of star articles in all language versions. Contributors to an article will have an easy access to basic information without looking through all wikis. Speaking a foreign language is not necessary to pick basic information (structure of districts, list of sights, addresses, hotels ...)
I know, there is the meta wiki. But I am not sure. Maybe its too meta. And the discoussion page or a Wikivoyager's Lounge may be too small. Ok... the set of meta articles can be placed in anywhere the Incubator. But the remaining stuff? Maybe a separate Namespace for the WMF projects at Meta, maybe a wiki like our general:
Any ideas?
I am going to ask the communities on their traveller's pub site as well.
Thanks
Stefan aka Fussi
Stefan Fussan, 16/11/2012 13:27:
I know, there is the meta wiki. But I am not sure. Maybe its too meta. And the discoussion page or a Wikivoyager's Lounge may be too small.
Too small?
Ok... the set of meta articles can be placed in anywhere the Incubator.
Meta articles? If it's what I think you mean, incubator is absolutely not the place.
But the remaining stuff? Maybe a separate Namespace for the WMF projects at Meta, maybe a wiki like our general:
Any ideas?
I am going to ask the communities on their traveller's pub site as well.
As I already wrote to Wikivoyage-l, I've already imported all the relevant pages from general to meta-wiki: general was an extremely small wiki, so it fits perfectly well in our usual standard of a few subpages with their talk pages, a namespace doesn't seem needed.
Nemo
-------- Messaggio originale -------- Oggetto: Wikivoyage pages on Meta-Wiki Data: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 20:25:05 +0100 Mittente: Federico Leva (Nemo) nemowiki@gmail.com A: Wikivoyage Mailing List wikivoyage-l@lists.wikimedia.org
I've moved [[Travel Guide]] to https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikivoyage per talk request. Now https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikivoyage should be the main discussion venue for meta-(cross-language-)issues in Wikivoyage. As Meta-Wiki replaces Wikivoyage general in this role, I've also imported a few dozens pages which seemed still relevant to the new context or still active, see https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex/Wikivoyage/ and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikivoyage The most important pages in this moment would seem to be https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikivoyage/New_language_versions and all https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikivoyage/Migration/New_policies subpages. I hope this will help speed up the process. Please help cleaning up and updating the imported pages and let me know if you need more of them; I didn't find anything of persistent interest on wikivoyage tech, except the documentation for extensions which seems already superseded by new pages on mediawiki.org.
Nemo
2012/11/16 Stefan Fussan derfussi@gmail.com:
The Wikivoyage project is online now and i want to thank all of you who have been involved with this process.
On the former Wikivoyage project we used to have a wiki called general: for discussions that affect all language versions. I wonder why the WMF project dont have something like this. Now I am trying to find a new place where we all can:
- discuss new features
- discuss about the travel guide's structure
- coordinate the work with templates to reduce redundant work
- coordinate the work on travel maps
- providing a set of English meta articles with rules and regulations that
we can hand over the community when a new language version is going to start
- providing a list of star articles in all language versions. Contributors
to an article will have an easy access to basic information without looking through all wikis. Speaking a foreign language is not necessary to pick basic information (structure of districts, list of sights, addresses, hotels ...)
I know, there is the meta wiki. But I am not sure. Maybe its too meta. And the discoussion page or a Wikivoyager's Lounge may be too small. Ok... the set of meta articles can be placed in anywhere the Incubator. But the remaining stuff? Maybe a separate Namespace for the WMF projects at Meta, maybe a wiki like our general:
Any ideas?
Maybe the simplest solution would be to create a meta wikiproject and associated portal?
See:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Special_interest_groups
and an example:
@Nemo: Of course. Just one page called lounge or whatever is too small. And we can not flood the metawiki with pages and discussions without any order. I am sure, the general wiki was small. But why? We were de: and it. only. We talked directly via discussion pages. But things have changed significantly.
Ok. I forgot the most important question... Are the language version and communities interested in coordinating the work and all the points I mentioned above?
2012/11/16 Tomasz Ganicz polimerek@gmail.com
2012/11/16 Stefan Fussan derfussi@gmail.com:
The Wikivoyage project is online now and i want to thank all of you who have been involved with this process.
On the former Wikivoyage project we used to have a wiki called general:
for
discussions that affect all language versions. I wonder why the WMF
project
dont have something like this. Now I am trying to find a new place where
we
all can:
- discuss new features
- discuss about the travel guide's structure
- coordinate the work with templates to reduce redundant work
- coordinate the work on travel maps
- providing a set of English meta articles with rules and regulations
that
we can hand over the community when a new language version is going to
start
- providing a list of star articles in all language versions.
Contributors
to an article will have an easy access to basic information without
looking
through all wikis. Speaking a foreign language is not necessary to pick basic information (structure of districts, list of sights, addresses, hotels ...)
I know, there is the meta wiki. But I am not sure. Maybe its too meta.
And
the discoussion page or a Wikivoyager's Lounge may be too small. Ok...
the
set of meta articles can be placed in anywhere the Incubator. But the remaining stuff? Maybe a separate Namespace for the WMF projects at Meta, maybe a wiki like our general:
Any ideas?
Maybe the simplest solution would be to create a meta wikiproject and associated portal?
See:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Special_interest_groups
and an example:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WikiWomen%27s_Collaborative
-- Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/ http://www.cbmm.lodz.pl/work.php?id=29&title=tomasz-ganicz
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Stefan Fussan, 16/11/2012 14:23:
@Nemo: Of course. Just one page called lounge or whatever is too small.
You can take all the pages you want, if you're talking of available space to write. (Usually, the less pages you use the better it is, because then more people will have them watchlisted.)
And we can not flood the metawiki with pages and discussions without any order.
Actually, you can. I doubt Meta-Wiki will even notice. Of course, if you use subpages and/or a category it's better for everyone.
I am sure, the general wiki was small. But why? We were de: and it. only. We talked directly via discussion pages. But things have changed significantly.
Ok. I forgot the most important question... Are the language version and communities interested in coordinating the work and all the points I mentioned above?
This you should ask on Wikivoyage-l probably. Usually, it's easier starting with something concrete to coordinate, rather than asking about general abstract willingness to coordinate.
Nemo
Hello Fussi,
Instead of pointing out that WiVo is at the moment a rather small project, I think it would be helpful if the more experienced members of the Wikimedia movement here would be a little bit more constructive. :( You have a good point. Meta discussions on Wikipedia happen mainly on English Wikipedia, sometimes on Meta Wiki. I personally prefer not to create new wikis but to use Meta Wiki because otherwise people would have to follow too many wikis. I could imagine that it would be a good idea to have a more organized discussion on the collaboration of the Wikimedia projects among each other. This could also become more relevant with the introduction of Wikidata.
Kind regards Ziko
2012/11/16 Federico Leva (Nemo) nemowiki@gmail.com:
Stefan Fussan, 16/11/2012 14:23:
@Nemo: Of course. Just one page called lounge or whatever is too small.
You can take all the pages you want, if you're talking of available space to write. (Usually, the less pages you use the better it is, because then more people will have them watchlisted.)
And we can not flood the metawiki with pages and discussions without any order.
Actually, you can. I doubt Meta-Wiki will even notice. Of course, if you use subpages and/or a category it's better for everyone.
I am sure, the general wiki was small. But why? We were de: and it. only. We talked directly via discussion pages. But things have changed significantly.
Ok. I forgot the most important question... Are the language version and communities interested in coordinating the work and all the points I mentioned above?
This you should ask on Wikivoyage-l probably. Usually, it's easier starting with something concrete to coordinate, rather than asking about general abstract willingness to coordinate.
Nemo
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2012/11/16 Ziko van Dijk vandijk@wmnederland.nl:
You have a good point. Meta discussions on Wikipedia happen mainly on English Wikipedia, sometimes on Meta Wiki. I personally prefer not to create new wikis but to use Meta Wiki because otherwise people would have to follow too many wikis. I could imagine that it would be a good idea to have a more organized discussion on the collaboration of the Wikimedia projects among each other. This could also become more relevant with the introduction of Wikidata.
I agree to Ziko's point of view. I think we are at a crucial point in the Wikimedia movement because we now have the opportunity to finally create a common village pump for all projects. I think we should use the impetus from the adoption of Wikivoyage and new Wikidata and create a common place for discussion and anything meta between all projects on Meta Wiki.
Regards, Jürgen.
On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 16:07:56 +0100, Juergen Fenn wrote:
2012/11/16 Ziko van Dijk vandijk@wmnederland.nl:
I agree to Ziko's point of view. I think we are at a crucial point in the Wikimedia movement because we now have the opportunity to finally create a common village pump for all projects. I think we should use the impetus from the adoption of Wikivoyage and new Wikidata and create a common place for discussion and anything meta between all projects on Meta Wiki.
Regards, Jürgen.
Actually, common village pump for all projects, it is located here: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Forum
Just nobody uses it, because most users are active in the projects and not active on meta, and global watchlists were discussed for at least five years and are on the way to be discussed for another five years at least.
But I think the point (at leat originally) was not so much to have the global discussion forum or the global village pump, but to have a common place for Wikivoyage discussions, which so far were held on the old Wikivoyage, but now are stale since the old Wikivoyage is locked for editing, and anyway it is not a WMF project.
Cheers Yaroslav
On 16 November 2012 15:30, Yaroslav M. Blanter putevod@mccme.ru wrote:
But I think the point (at leat originally) was not so much to have the global discussion forum or the global village pump, but to have a common place for Wikivoyage discussions, which so far were held on the old Wikivoyage, but now are stale since the old Wikivoyage is locked for editing, and anyway it is not a WMF project.
Wikisource has a multilingual central project: among other things, one of the goals is centralised cross-language coordination, through eg/
http://wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Scriptorium
It doesn't seem to be very heavily used, but the precedent is still there. I don't see any reason that Wikivoyage couldn't have a centralised wiki as well...
Andrew Gray, 16/11/2012 16:43:
On 16 November 2012 15:30, Yaroslav M. Blanter putevod@mccme.ru wrote:
But I think the point (at leat originally) was not so much to have the global discussion forum or the global village pump, but to have a common place for Wikivoyage discussions, which so far were held on the old Wikivoyage, but now are stale since the old Wikivoyage is locked for editing, and anyway it is not a WMF project.
Wikisource has a multilingual central project: among other things, one of the goals is centralised cross-language coordination, through eg/
http://wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Scriptorium
It doesn't seem to be very heavily used, but the precedent is still there. I don't see any reason that Wikivoyage couldn't have a centralised wiki as well...
wikisource.org is there for historical reasons because originally language subdomains for wikisource weren't planned. Its daily "core business" is 1) being the Wikisource portal, 2) hosting languages without a subdomain.
Nemo
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