I don't want to be seen to be taking sides and don't intend to become embroiled in WMUK internal politics (which is why I've never joined the chapter).
I've never received an explanation as to why around $500,000 of Gift Aid is out of reach and unavailable to either WMUK or WMF, despite asking this be dealt with at Wikimania 2014.
Are there easily explainable circumstances, legislation changes or new rules which prevent donations to WMF to be processed in such a way as to be eligible to collect Gift Aid ?
If not, why hasn't WMF set up a British office to collect this money in the UK and/or why isn't WMUK processing payments and collecting Gift Aid this year ? This is a significant portion of what WMF will spend in the UK (via WMUK's request from the FDC) and would have made up to $500,000 available to spend elsewhere, either UK and/or globally.
The Institute of Fundraising suggests overseas charities fundraising in the UK should find a British charity that can act as a strategic partner, or have a local office (see http://www.institute-of-fundraising.org.uk/guidance/about-fundraising/raisin... ). I understand the structure is quite different, but Greenpeace does this through the UK based "Greenpeace Environmental Trust" which is a registered charity and which can collect Gift Aid. The donations + Gift Aid are then passed to "Greenpeace International" in Amsterdam, and that funds things like the "Rainbow Warrior".
I would also appreciate analysis being conducted to see if the loss of Gift Aid has deterred people in the UK from donating, because not collecting Gift Aid is bad enough, but also losing donations would be entirely unforgivable.
Kind Regards, Nick
Hi Nick
Over the last few years the Foundation has decisively moved away from allowing local chapters to take part in the on-screen fundraiser, preferring to centralise the work in spite of the loss of the available local tax reliefs (such as Gift Aid in the UK). Many chapters, including the UK, would have liked to have been part of the fundraiser, but the previous ED, Sue Gardner, determined that that would not be permitted. WMUK regretted that decision, and we responded to it here: https://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/Open_letter_to_Sue_Gardner.
We accept that decisions such as these are entirely within the WMF's remit, and we are now actively working on improving our ability - as recommended by the Foundation and the FDC - to seek charitable funds directly from local sources, on which we can reclaim Gift Aid.
Best regards
Michael
____________ Michael Maggs Chair, Wikimedia UK
Nick Birse mailto:wp@nbir.se 5 December 2014 17:28 I don't want to be seen to be taking sides and don't intend to become embroiled in WMUK internal politics (which is why I've never joined the chapter).
I've never received an explanation as to why around $500,000 of Gift Aid is out of reach and unavailable to either WMUK or WMF, despite asking this be dealt with at Wikimania 2014.
Are there easily explainable circumstances, legislation changes or new rules which prevent donations to WMF to be processed in such a way as to be eligible to collect Gift Aid ?
If not, why hasn't WMF set up a British office to collect this money in the UK and/or why isn't WMUK processing payments and collecting Gift Aid this year ? This is a significant portion of what WMF will spend in the UK (via WMUK's request from the FDC) and would have made up to $500,000 available to spend elsewhere, either UK and/or globally.
The Institute of Fundraising suggests overseas charities fundraising in the UK should find a British charity that can act as a strategic partner, or have a local office (see http://www.institute-of-fundraising.org.uk/guidance/about-fundraising/raisin... ). I understand the structure is quite different, but Greenpeace does this through the UK based "Greenpeace Environmental Trust" which is a registered charity and which can collect Gift Aid. The donations + Gift Aid are then passed to "Greenpeace International" in Amsterdam, and that funds things like the "Rainbow Warrior".
I would also appreciate analysis being conducted to see if the loss of Gift Aid has deterred people in the UK from donating, because not collecting Gift Aid is bad enough, but also losing donations would be entirely unforgivable.
Kind Regards, Nick _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Michael
On Sat, Dec 6, 2014 at 2:22 AM, Michael Maggs Michael@maggs.name wrote:
Over the last few years the Foundation has decisively moved away from allowing local chapters to take part in the on-screen fundraiser, preferring to centralise the work in spite of the loss of the available local tax reliefs (such as Gift Aid in the UK). Many chapters, including the UK, would have liked to have been part of the fundraiser, but the previous ED, Sue Gardner, determined that that would not be permitted. WMUK regretted that decision, and we responded to it here: https://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/Open_letter_to_Sue_Gardner.
The question was raised by Nick over at the WMF Board noticeboard.[1] There Sj states:
"The [UK Fund for Charities channels gifts to validated non-UK based charities. We were able to use their service this year for large Wikimania-related donations. They charge 1% for large gifts, making this an effective way to receive gift aid. However this is not a great solution for individual donors: for gifts under £100, they charge up to 20%, consuming most of the gift aid."
$500,000 is quite a lot of coin to be missing out on; and the WMF is obviously looking at ways to get this gift aid (whilst bypassing WMUK), just without registering themselves in the UK, which would see it having to comply with European directives on numerous issues.
There's more to this story me thinks ;)
Russavia
[1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard#Fundr...
On 5 December 2014 at 13:25, Russavia russavia.wikipedia@gmail.com wrote:
Michael
On Sat, Dec 6, 2014 at 2:22 AM, Michael Maggs Michael@maggs.name wrote:
Over the last few years the Foundation has decisively moved away from allowing local chapters to take part in the on-screen fundraiser,
preferring
to centralise the work in spite of the loss of the available local tax reliefs (such as Gift Aid in the UK). Many chapters, including the UK, would have liked to have been part of the fundraiser, but the previous
ED,
Sue Gardner, determined that that would not be permitted. WMUK regretted that decision, and we responded to it here: https://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/Open_letter_to_Sue_Gardner.
The question was raised by Nick over at the WMF Board noticeboard.[1] There Sj states:
"The [UK Fund for Charities channels gifts to validated non-UK based charities. We were able to use their service this year for large Wikimania-related donations. They charge 1% for large gifts, making this an effective way to receive gift aid. However this is not a great solution for individual donors: for gifts under £100, they charge up to 20%, consuming most of the gift aid."
$500,000 is quite a lot of coin to be missing out on; and the WMF is obviously looking at ways to get this gift aid (whilst bypassing WMUK), just without registering themselves in the UK, which would see it having to comply with European directives on numerous issues.
There's more to this story me thinks ;)
Russavia
Before getting all excited about losing $500,000....first we need to consider some facts.
Fact #1 - in every country that I'm aware of (and I've been asking around a bit recently), donors have the *option* of adding Gift Aid or whatever local equivalent is available, but it is not an automatic option. Therefore, there might be the *potential* to raise significant dollars through this process, but it is not a guaranteed amount of money or a guaranteed percentage.
Offsetting this is the cost of actually collecting the donations. This is a very significant factor, and for many chapters the cost of operating the fundraiser locally with a remittance to the WMF is prohibitively expensive. They have to worry about hosting costs, staffing, banking, lawyers, accountants, issuance of receipts, auditors, legislated requirements as to how the donations are used....and that's just what I'm aware of off the top of my head.
Unless there is excellent evidence that the additional donation outweighs the cost of collecting it *for the movement as a whole, not just the chapter* - and there was significant work done on this when the opportunity for chapters to do this before was withdrawn - then it is not in the best interests of the movement to operate this way.
We also have to keep in mind that there are many chapters that simply have no opportunity to participate in this kind of fundraising (e.g., those in countries with no similar government scheme) and there is absolutely no opportunity for thematic organizations or user groups to participate in this type of fundraising.
So yes, it is worth investigating, and Lisa Gruwell has already answered some locally-specific issues. But there were a lot of reasons why this option was heavily restricted in the past, and it wasn't just because certain chapters were having governance issues.
Risker/Anne
Also, if anyone's interested in the latest news on Wikimedia UK's governance, do have a look at our most recent governance audit - further info here:
https://blog.wikimedia.org.uk/2014/11/final-report-on-wikimedia-uk-governanc...
Some quotes include;
*“The charity has very largely addressed the 50 recommendations found within the original review. WMUK has developed very quickly, and the charity has clearly put a lot of effort into ensuring that its governance now meets best practice expectations. It has a cohesive, skilled and experienced board in place. They have a clear understanding of the charity’s vision and mission”.*
*“For the stage that Wikimedia is in its life cycle it compares well with similar UK charities. Its transparency about its procedures is a beacon of best practice, and its conflicts of interest procedures are robust and well-tested”.*
Regards,
Chris
On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 6:22 PM, Michael Maggs Michael@maggs.name wrote:
Hi Nick
Over the last few years the Foundation has decisively moved away from allowing local chapters to take part in the on-screen fundraiser, preferring to centralise the work in spite of the loss of the available local tax reliefs (such as Gift Aid in the UK). Many chapters, including the UK, would have liked to have been part of the fundraiser, but the previous ED, Sue Gardner, determined that that would not be permitted. WMUK regretted that decision, and we responded to it here: https://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/Open_letter_to_Sue_Gardner.
We accept that decisions such as these are entirely within the WMF's remit, and we are now actively working on improving our ability - as recommended by the Foundation and the FDC - to seek charitable funds directly from local sources, on which we can reclaim Gift Aid.
Best regards
Michael
Michael Maggs Chair, Wikimedia UK
Nick Birse mailto:wp@nbir.se
5 December 2014 17:28
I don't want to be seen to be taking sides and don't intend to become embroiled in WMUK internal politics (which is why I've never joined the chapter).
I've never received an explanation as to why around $500,000 of Gift Aid is out of reach and unavailable to either WMUK or WMF, despite asking this be dealt with at Wikimania 2014.
Are there easily explainable circumstances, legislation changes or new rules which prevent donations to WMF to be processed in such a way as to be eligible to collect Gift Aid ?
If not, why hasn't WMF set up a British office to collect this money in the UK and/or why isn't WMUK processing payments and collecting Gift Aid this year ? This is a significant portion of what WMF will spend in the UK (via WMUK's request from the FDC) and would have made up to $500,000 available to spend elsewhere, either UK and/or globally.
The Institute of Fundraising suggests overseas charities fundraising in the UK should find a British charity that can act as a strategic partner, or have a local office (see http://www.institute-of-fundraising.org.uk/guidance/ about-fundraising/raising-money-for-charities-abroad/ ). I understand the structure is quite different, but Greenpeace does this through the UK based "Greenpeace Environmental Trust" which is a registered charity and which can collect Gift Aid. The donations + Gift Aid are then passed to "Greenpeace International" in Amsterdam, and that funds things like the "Rainbow Warrior".
I would also appreciate analysis being conducted to see if the loss of Gift Aid has deterred people in the UK from donating, because not collecting Gift Aid is bad enough, but also losing donations would be entirely unforgivable.
Kind Regards, Nick _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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Wasn't there also an issue with WMUK processing payments, in that they couldn't pass 100% of the donations on to the WMF but had to retain some or most of the funds in order to remain independent under British law? That seems like a good reason why the WMF might not want WMUK to process payments, and the byzantine ruleset they'd have to abide by to have a regime of chapter-based processing is a very good reason to avoid that model in general.
Hi Nathan,
On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 6:48 PM, Nathan nawrich@gmail.com wrote:
Wasn't there also an issue with WMUK processing payments, in that they couldn't pass 100% of the donations on to the WMF but had to retain some or most of the funds in order to remain independent under British law?
We looked at this in some detail in 2011 when the original big discussion about fundraising happened.
The short answer is "no"; Wikimedia UK would be able to send 99%+ of its revenue to the Wikimedia Foundation as an unrestricted grant with no regulatory problems.
The answer to this question does of course differ for different chapters.
Chris
You can find information on the tax deductibility of donations to WMF here:
https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Tax_Deductibility/en#.C2.A0Netherlands
Quickly, to address a few points that have been raised:
1) Yes, donations to WMF are tax deductible in the Netherlands
2) When a U.K. donor is looking to add Gift Aid to their donation, we process the donation through our account with the U.K. Fund for Charities, which charges 1% for this service and returns the donor data to WMF. When a donor is looking to donate in country, we direct them to the chapter.
Thank you, Lisa Gruwell
On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 10:32 AM, Chris Keating chriskeatingwiki@gmail.com wrote:
Also, if anyone's interested in the latest news on Wikimedia UK's governance, do have a look at our most recent governance audit - further info here:
https://blog.wikimedia.org.uk/2014/11/final-report-on-wikimedia-uk-governanc...
Some quotes include;
*“The charity has very largely addressed the 50 recommendations found within the original review. WMUK has developed very quickly, and the charity has clearly put a lot of effort into ensuring that its governance now meets best practice expectations. It has a cohesive, skilled and experienced board in place. They have a clear understanding of the charity’s vision and mission”.*
*“For the stage that Wikimedia is in its life cycle it compares well with similar UK charities. Its transparency about its procedures is a beacon of best practice, and its conflicts of interest procedures are robust and well-tested”.*
Regards,
Chris
On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 6:22 PM, Michael Maggs Michael@maggs.name wrote:
Hi Nick
Over the last few years the Foundation has decisively moved away from allowing local chapters to take part in the on-screen fundraiser, preferring to centralise the work in spite of the loss of the available local tax reliefs (such as Gift Aid in the UK). Many chapters, including the UK, would have liked to have been part of the fundraiser, but the previous ED, Sue Gardner, determined that that would not be permitted. WMUK regretted that decision, and we responded to it here: https://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/Open_letter_to_Sue_Gardner.
We accept that decisions such as these are entirely within the WMF's remit, and we are now actively working on improving our ability - as recommended by the Foundation and the FDC - to seek charitable funds directly from local sources, on which we can reclaim Gift Aid.
Best regards
Michael
Michael Maggs Chair, Wikimedia UK
Nick Birse mailto:wp@nbir.se
5 December 2014 17:28
I don't want to be seen to be taking sides and don't intend to become embroiled in WMUK internal politics (which is why I've never joined the chapter).
I've never received an explanation as to why around $500,000 of Gift Aid is out of reach and unavailable to either WMUK or WMF, despite asking this
be
dealt with at Wikimania 2014.
Are there easily explainable circumstances, legislation changes or new rules which prevent donations to WMF to be processed in such a way as to be eligible to collect Gift Aid ?
If not, why hasn't WMF set up a British office to collect this money in the UK and/or why isn't WMUK processing payments and collecting Gift Aid
this
year ? This is a significant portion of what WMF will spend in the UK
(via
WMUK's request from the FDC) and would have made up to $500,000
available
to spend elsewhere, either UK and/or globally.
The Institute of Fundraising suggests overseas charities fundraising in the UK should find a British charity that can act as a strategic partner, or have a local office (see http://www.institute-of-fundraising.org.uk/guidance/ about-fundraising/raising-money-for-charities-abroad/ ). I understand the structure is quite different, but Greenpeace does
this
through the UK based "Greenpeace Environmental Trust" which is a registered charity and which can collect Gift Aid. The donations + Gift Aid are
then
passed to "Greenpeace International" in Amsterdam, and that funds things like the "Rainbow Warrior".
I would also appreciate analysis being conducted to see if the loss of Gift Aid has deterred people in the UK from donating, because not collecting Gift Aid is bad enough, but also losing donations would be entirely unforgivable.
Kind Regards, Nick _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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Hoi, For what it is worth ... http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_CJE-09-5_en.htm Thanks, GerardM
On 5 December 2014 at 19:56, Lisa Gruwell lgruwell@wikimedia.org wrote:
You can find information on the tax deductibility of donations to WMF here:
https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Tax_Deductibility/en#.C2.A0Netherlands
Quickly, to address a few points that have been raised:
Yes, donations to WMF are tax deductible in the Netherlands
When a U.K. donor is looking to add Gift Aid to their donation, we
process the donation through our account with the U.K. Fund for Charities, which charges 1% for this service and returns the donor data to WMF. When a donor is looking to donate in country, we direct them to the chapter.
Thank you, Lisa Gruwell
On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 10:32 AM, Chris Keating <chriskeatingwiki@gmail.com
wrote:
Also, if anyone's interested in the latest news on Wikimedia UK's governance, do have a look at our most recent governance audit - further info here:
https://blog.wikimedia.org.uk/2014/11/final-report-on-wikimedia-uk-governanc...
Some quotes include;
*“The charity has very largely addressed the 50 recommendations found within the original review. WMUK has developed very quickly, and the charity has clearly put a lot of effort into ensuring that its governance now meets best practice expectations. It has a cohesive, skilled and experienced board in place. They have a clear understanding of the charity’s vision and mission”.*
*“For the stage that Wikimedia is in its life cycle it compares well with similar UK charities. Its transparency about its procedures is a beacon
of
best practice, and its conflicts of interest procedures are robust and well-tested”.*
Regards,
Chris
On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 6:22 PM, Michael Maggs Michael@maggs.name
wrote:
Hi Nick
Over the last few years the Foundation has decisively moved away from allowing local chapters to take part in the on-screen fundraiser, preferring to centralise the work in spite of the loss of the available local tax reliefs (such as Gift Aid in the UK). Many chapters,
including
the UK, would have liked to have been part of the fundraiser, but the previous ED, Sue Gardner, determined that that would not be permitted. WMUK regretted that decision, and we responded to it here: https://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/Open_letter_to_Sue_Gardner.
We accept that decisions such as these are entirely within the WMF's remit, and we are now actively working on improving our ability - as recommended by the Foundation and the FDC - to seek charitable funds directly from local sources, on which we can reclaim Gift Aid.
Best regards
Michael
Michael Maggs Chair, Wikimedia UK
Nick Birse mailto:wp@nbir.se
5 December 2014 17:28
I don't want to be seen to be taking sides and don't intend to become embroiled in WMUK internal politics (which is why I've never joined
the
chapter).
I've never received an explanation as to why around $500,000 of Gift
Aid
is out of reach and unavailable to either WMUK or WMF, despite asking
this
be
dealt with at Wikimania 2014.
Are there easily explainable circumstances, legislation changes or new rules which prevent donations to WMF to be processed in such a way as
to
be eligible to collect Gift Aid ?
If not, why hasn't WMF set up a British office to collect this money
in
the UK and/or why isn't WMUK processing payments and collecting Gift Aid
this
year ? This is a significant portion of what WMF will spend in the UK
(via
WMUK's request from the FDC) and would have made up to $500,000
available
to spend elsewhere, either UK and/or globally.
The Institute of Fundraising suggests overseas charities fundraising
in
the UK should find a British charity that can act as a strategic partner,
or
have a local office (see http://www.institute-of-fundraising.org.uk/guidance/ about-fundraising/raising-money-for-charities-abroad/ ). I understand the structure is quite different, but Greenpeace does
this
through the UK based "Greenpeace Environmental Trust" which is a registered charity and which can collect Gift Aid. The donations + Gift Aid are
then
passed to "Greenpeace International" in Amsterdam, and that funds
things
like the "Rainbow Warrior".
I would also appreciate analysis being conducted to see if the loss of Gift Aid has deterred people in the UK from donating, because not
collecting
Gift Aid is bad enough, but also losing donations would be entirely unforgivable.
Kind Regards, Nick _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 2:32 PM, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
Hoi, For what it is worth ... http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_CJE-09-5_en.htm Thanks, GerardM
For the benefit of others... The press release, from 2009, describes a preliminary ruling that states of the European Union cannot restrict tax benefits for donations to beneficiaries (recipients) located in that state alone, and must also permit the benefits for beneficiaries located in other states of the EU.
Lisa
On Sat, Dec 6, 2014 at 2:56 AM, Lisa Gruwell lgruwell@wikimedia.org wrote:
- When a U.K. donor is looking to add Gift Aid to their donation, we
process the donation through our account with the U.K. Fund for Charities, which charges 1% for this service and returns the donor data to WMF. When a donor is looking to donate in country, we direct them to the chapter.
Can you please confirm whether you are talking about large donors, or the every day type donors who keep Wikipedia free by clicking on the banners. The reason this is needed is that it contradicts what Sj has stated on the Board noticeboard, where a figure of 20% was mentioned for the nickel and dime donors (which come about by way of the banners, etc).
Can you also give some further information on how many of these "in country" donors the WMF has sent WMUK's way? And what $/£ amount would we be talking about here? And are funds from these "in country" donors funnelled back to the WMF?
Apologies if this is covered elsewhere.
Russavia
Hi Russavia-
I haven't seen the specific comment from SJ that you are referencing, but I am guessing that he is referring to the Gift Aid percentage match, which used to be 20% and is now 25%. The 1% I mentioned is the processing fee WMF pays to the U.K. Fund for Charities for processing our donations. We most often see large donors asking about Gift Aid and that is why we set up the account, but it is not exclusively for large donations. We refer anyone who is wishing to add Gift Aid to their donation to our account with the U.K. Fund for Charities.
When I said "in country", I meant anyone wishing to give to the chapter, instead of WMF. Those donations stay with the chapter and do not come back to WMF. We should be able to provide some numbers around this when our donor services team comes up for air in January.
Thank you, Lisa
On Sun, Dec 7, 2014 at 12:33 AM, Russavia russavia.wikipedia@gmail.com wrote:
Lisa
On Sat, Dec 6, 2014 at 2:56 AM, Lisa Gruwell lgruwell@wikimedia.org wrote:
- When a U.K. donor is looking to add Gift Aid to their donation, we
process the donation through our account with the U.K. Fund for
Charities,
which charges 1% for this service and returns the donor data to WMF.
When
a donor is looking to donate in country, we direct them to the chapter.
Can you please confirm whether you are talking about large donors, or the every day type donors who keep Wikipedia free by clicking on the banners. The reason this is needed is that it contradicts what Sj has stated on the Board noticeboard, where a figure of 20% was mentioned for the nickel and dime donors (which come about by way of the banners, etc).
Can you also give some further information on how many of these "in country" donors the WMF has sent WMUK's way? And what $/£ amount would we be talking about here? And are funds from these "in country" donors funnelled back to the WMF?
Apologies if this is covered elsewhere.
Russavia
Lisa,
I posted a link to the WMF Board discussion to this list on 6 December, it's no problem if you missed it, here it is again:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard#Fundr...
I quote from that:
"The [UK Fund for Charities channels gifts to validated non-UK based charities. We were able to use their service this year for large Wikimania-related donations. They charge 1% for large gifts, making this an effective way to receive gift aid. However this is not a great solution for individual donors: for gifts under £100, they charge up to 20%, consuming most of the gift aid. –SJ talk 00:28, 13 October 2014 (UTC)"
Given the nature of fundraising drives by the WMF (e.g banners) most of the donations from the UK would surely come from the "under £100" category, and many of these donations would likely be made because of the gift aid that is no longer able to be collected by WMUK or the WMF.
Hopefully you can give us some clear answers to the issues which have been raised on both the Board noticeboard and this list; myself and others feel we are still none the wiser as to the reality.
Cheers
Russavia
On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 9:31 AM, Lisa Gruwell lgruwell@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi Russavia-
I haven't seen the specific comment from SJ that you are referencing, but I am guessing that he is referring to the Gift Aid percentage match, which used to be 20% and is now 25%. The 1% I mentioned is the processing fee WMF pays to the U.K. Fund for Charities for processing our donations. We most often see large donors asking about Gift Aid and that is why we set up the account, but it is not exclusively for large donations. We refer anyone who is wishing to add Gift Aid to their donation to our account with the U.K. Fund for Charities.
When I said "in country", I meant anyone wishing to give to the chapter, instead of WMF. Those donations stay with the chapter and do not come back to WMF. We should be able to provide some numbers around this when our donor services team comes up for air in January.
Thank you, Lisa
On Sun, Dec 7, 2014 at 12:33 AM, Russavia russavia.wikipedia@gmail.com wrote:
Lisa
On Sat, Dec 6, 2014 at 2:56 AM, Lisa Gruwell lgruwell@wikimedia.org wrote:
- When a U.K. donor is looking to add Gift Aid to their donation, we
process the donation through our account with the U.K. Fund for
Charities,
which charges 1% for this service and returns the donor data to WMF.
When
a donor is looking to donate in country, we direct them to the chapter.
Can you please confirm whether you are talking about large donors, or the every day type donors who keep Wikipedia free by clicking on the banners. The reason this is needed is that it contradicts what Sj has stated on the Board noticeboard, where a figure of 20% was mentioned for the nickel and dime donors (which come about by way of the banners, etc).
Can you also give some further information on how many of these "in country" donors the WMF has sent WMUK's way? And what $/£ amount would we be talking about here? And are funds from these "in country" donors funnelled back to the WMF?
Apologies if this is covered elsewhere.
Russavia
Hi Russavia-
Thanks for clarification. There is a lot of room for confusion here and I sure I have not been as clear when talking about this as I needed to be. Here are the details: The pricing structure is based on cumulative donations. We paid 20% on the first £100 in donations (which was covered with our very first donation), 10% on the next £9899, and 1% on every donation after that – which is the fee assessed on any donation made during this December campaign that requests Gift Aid. We will share the totals after we receive our quarterly statement toward the end of February. Sorry for the confusion.
Thank you, Lisa
On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 4:12 AM, Russavia russavia.wikipedia@gmail.com wrote:
Lisa,
I posted a link to the WMF Board discussion to this list on 6 December, it's no problem if you missed it, here it is again:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard#Fundr...
I quote from that:
"The [UK Fund for Charities channels gifts to validated non-UK based charities. We were able to use their service this year for large Wikimania-related donations. They charge 1% for large gifts, making this an effective way to receive gift aid. However this is not a great solution for individual donors: for gifts under £100, they charge up to 20%, consuming most of the gift aid. –SJ talk 00:28, 13 October 2014 (UTC)"
Given the nature of fundraising drives by the WMF (e.g banners) most of the donations from the UK would surely come from the "under £100" category, and many of these donations would likely be made because of the gift aid that is no longer able to be collected by WMUK or the WMF.
Hopefully you can give us some clear answers to the issues which have been raised on both the Board noticeboard and this list; myself and others feel we are still none the wiser as to the reality.
Cheers
Russavia
On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 9:31 AM, Lisa Gruwell lgruwell@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi Russavia-
I haven't seen the specific comment from SJ that you are referencing, but I am guessing that he is referring to the Gift Aid percentage match, which used to be 20% and is now 25%. The 1% I mentioned is the processing fee WMF pays to the U.K. Fund for Charities for processing our donations. We most often see large donors asking about Gift Aid and that is why we set up the account, but it is not exclusively for large donations. We refer anyone who is wishing to add Gift Aid to their donation to our account with the U.K. Fund for Charities.
When I said "in country", I meant anyone wishing to give to the chapter, instead of WMF. Those donations stay with the chapter and do not come back to WMF. We should be able to provide some numbers around this when our donor services team comes up for air in January.
Thank you, Lisa
On Sun, Dec 7, 2014 at 12:33 AM, Russavia russavia.wikipedia@gmail.com wrote:
Lisa
On Sat, Dec 6, 2014 at 2:56 AM, Lisa Gruwell lgruwell@wikimedia.org wrote:
- When a U.K. donor is looking to add Gift Aid to their donation, we
process the donation through our account with the U.K. Fund for
Charities,
which charges 1% for this service and returns the donor data to WMF.
When
a donor is looking to donate in country, we direct them to the chapter.
Can you please confirm whether you are talking about large donors, or the every day type donors who keep Wikipedia free by clicking on the banners. The reason this is needed is that it contradicts what Sj has stated on the Board noticeboard, where a figure of 20% was mentioned for the nickel and dime donors (which come about by way of the banners, etc).
Can you also give some further information on how many of these "in country" donors the WMF has sent WMUK's way? And what $/£ amount would we be talking about here? And are funds from these "in country" donors funnelled back to the WMF?
Apologies if this is covered elsewhere.
Russavia
Lisa,
Thanks for your reply and clarification.
When one clicks on the fundraising banner from the UK, they get taken to this site.[1] As you can see there is no prominent link about gift aid on that page. There is, however, a link at the bottom under "Tax deductibility information" which takes you here.[2]
It will certainly be interesting to see the figures in February which you said you'd provide, so that we can see for ourselves just how the figures from the UK compare to previous years when the gift aid was obviously more prominent (from what I am lead to understand).
Another interesting thing I noticed. When you go the landing page for Australia,[3] I see the option there to pay via BPay.[4] And sure enough, the Wikimedia Foundation has a BPay biller code.[5] Most Australians would be familiar with BPay, so it's a great feature to have. But, upon looking at their FAQs[6] it states:
"Can an overseas business become a BPAY biller?
Unfortunately, if your business is based overseas you can’t become a BPAY biller. BPAY is only available for businesses in Australia."
How exactly is the WMF utilising BPay here in Australia? It's not registered in Australia.[7]
More info on that would be awesome. Sorry if it's been answered before.
Cheers,
Russavia
[1] https://donate.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:FundraiserLandingPage... [2] https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Tax_Deductibility/en#United_Kingdom [3] https://donate.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:FundraiserLandingPage... [4] http://www.bpay.com.au/ [5] http://www.bpay.com.au/Personal/Find-Biller-Codes-or-Financial-Institutions.... [6] http://www.bpay.com.au/Business/Small-Medium-Business/Help/BPAY-Services-FAQ... [7] http://abr.business.gov.au/SearchByNameAll.aspx?SearchText=wikimedia
On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 5:08 AM, Lisa Gruwell lgruwell@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi Russavia-
Thanks for clarification. There is a lot of room for confusion here and I sure I have not been as clear when talking about this as I needed to be. Here are the details: The pricing structure is based on cumulative donations. We paid 20% on the first £100 in donations (which was covered with our very first donation), 10% on the next £9899, and 1% on every donation after that – which is the fee assessed on any donation made during this December campaign that requests Gift Aid. We will share the totals after we receive our quarterly statement toward the end of February. Sorry for the confusion.
Thank you, Lisa
Russavia (and everyone),
I've asked about, and from I can find the WMF has contracted out collection of BPay payments to a third party merchant (an Australian business). This has been the case since the first fundraiser that WMAU was not involved in payment processing (2011 I think).
Regards,
Charles / User:Chuq Wikimedia Australia
On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 10:39 AM, Russavia russavia.wikipedia@gmail.com wrote:
Lisa,
Thanks for your reply and clarification.
When one clicks on the fundraising banner from the UK, they get taken to this site.[1] As you can see there is no prominent link about gift aid on that page. There is, however, a link at the bottom under "Tax deductibility information" which takes you here.[2]
It will certainly be interesting to see the figures in February which you said you'd provide, so that we can see for ourselves just how the figures from the UK compare to previous years when the gift aid was obviously more prominent (from what I am lead to understand).
Another interesting thing I noticed. When you go the landing page for Australia,[3] I see the option there to pay via BPay.[4] And sure enough, the Wikimedia Foundation has a BPay biller code.[5] Most Australians would be familiar with BPay, so it's a great feature to have. But, upon looking at their FAQs[6] it states:
"Can an overseas business become a BPAY biller?
Unfortunately, if your business is based overseas you can’t become a BPAY biller. BPAY is only available for businesses in Australia."
How exactly is the WMF utilising BPay here in Australia? It's not registered in Australia.[7]
More info on that would be awesome. Sorry if it's been answered before.
Cheers,
Russavia
[1] https://donate.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:FundraiserLandingPage... [2] https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Tax_Deductibility/en#United_Kingdom [3] https://donate.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:FundraiserLandingPage... [4] http://www.bpay.com.au/ [5] http://www.bpay.com.au/Personal/Find-Biller-Codes-or-Financial-Institutions.... [6] http://www.bpay.com.au/Business/Small-Medium-Business/Help/BPAY-Services-FAQ... [7] http://abr.business.gov.au/SearchByNameAll.aspx?SearchText=wikimedia
On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 5:08 AM, Lisa Gruwell lgruwell@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi Russavia-
Thanks for clarification. There is a lot of room for confusion here and
I sure I have not been as clear when talking about this as I needed to be. Here are the details: The pricing structure is based on cumulative donations. We paid 20% on the first £100 in donations (which was covered with our very first donation), 10% on the next £9899, and 1% on every donation after that – which is the fee assessed on any donation made during this December campaign that requests Gift Aid. We will share the totals after we receive our quarterly statement toward the end of February. Sorry for the confusion.
Thank you, Lisa
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Le 05/12/2014 19:22, Michael Maggs a écrit :
Hi Nick
Over the last few years the Foundation has decisively moved away from allowing local chapters to take part in the on-screen fundraiser, preferring to centralise the work in spite of the loss of the available local tax reliefs (such as Gift Aid in the UK). Many chapters, including the UK, would have liked to have been part of the fundraiser, but the previous ED, Sue Gardner, determined that that would not be permitted. WMUK regretted that decision, and we responded to it here: https://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/Open_letter_to_Sue_Gardner.
I wonder if Sue Gardner has worked more on anything than centralizing the Wikimedia movement by various means and curtailing chapter growth and capacity. I also wonder if she was mandated to do that by the board or if she just implemented her own views. From this message of Ting Chen, it seems that it was her own will :-(
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2014-June/072405.html "As some of you may remember that the years 2010 to 2012 [when he was chair of the Wikimedia Foundation] were especially difficult years in relationship between the Foundation and the chapters. The Foundation experimented a few approaches and changed again and again its direction. And the discussion about how to distribute the funds raised on our projects had repeatedly kindled, sometimes very violent confrontations. On one of the board meetings earlier of 2011 Sue said to the board that she never considered this confrontation as a question of who wins. She wanted a good and sound solution for the problems that are out there. After the Haifa Wikimania the discussion became even hotter and sometimes it really felt insulting. I always considered myself as a person who is very ballanced and who can keep his tempel, but at that point I must say that I was very unnerved by the dispute. We had our board meeting in San Francisco and after that Sue asked me to stay for a few days to give a speech on the All Hands Meeting of the staff. So one evening we went out for a dinner together and naturally, the discussion came back to the fund raising and fund dissemination topic. And I asked Sue with a sigh:"Do you still think that it is not about who wins?" And she said:"Yes, of cause not." "
Ting Chen seems to have believed her :-(
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