Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 11:25:28 -0500 From: wknight8111(a)gmail.com To: foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: for an academic endorsement of wikipedia articles? Encyclopedia articles from any encyclopedia are not intended to be primary resources ever. Encyclopedias are meant to be short introductions to a topic, not a comprehensive coverage of it, and certainly not an authoritative source that is worth being referenced. However, the value of Wikipedia is that each article typically contains many references of it's own, and those sources can be used as a starting point for research and investigation. In short, there is no sense in trying to make Wikipedia more citable, because people shouldn't be citing it in the first place. If you are looking for stable and "approved" versions of "good" articles, you may be looking for something like Veropedia instead. --Andrew Whitworth On Dec 17, 2007 11:01 AM, Nathan Awrich <nawrich(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I can't see that ever happening, unless we freeze articles that reach > a certain level of quality (judged by FA or something) for a period of > time or make a version permanently available as a link from the top of > an article. The issue with academic referencing isn't quality - its > stability. > > > On Dec 17, 2007 10:57 AM, Michael Bimmler <mbimmler(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > From: Pascal Belouin <pbelouin(a)hotmail.com> > > Date: Dec 17, 2007 4:54 PM > > Subject: for an academic endorsement of wikipedia articles? > > To: foundation-l-owner(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > I was thinking about the fact that wikipedia was > > still a tricky subject regarding its use for referencing in the academic world. > > I was wondering if it would not be possible to obtain from official academic > > bodies a sort of endorsement that would qualify a wikipedia article for > > "official" academic referencing? > > > > Regards, > > > > Pascal Belouin

What academic journals take encyclopaedic articles? Don't they generally want original research, which our articles certainly are not?

Academic papers reference other written work for many purposes. The most common one is to position one's own work, so you refer to what's come before your work or working going on in parallel and how your's is different. For a variety of reasons you won't or shouldn't find that work on Wikipedia. Still, there are good reasons for referencing Wikipedia, typically ancillary, and not for original research. Examples that come to mind are "for a short introduction on X, see Wikipedia article on X" or "as the editing frequency of X on Wikipedia shows, the topic X is of much broader interest than Y which hasn't seen a revision in months." I don't see many folks objecting to the second type of use.

Thomas Dalton wrote: You know, to my way of thinking the best way to achieve something like that would be to explain how to fact-check the article and find citeable sources. An academic "how-to" on using Wikipedia.

Thomas Dalton wrote: On 17/12/2007, Brian McNeil <brian.mcneil(a)wikinewsie.org> wrote: that sources. Aimed at who? _______________________________________________ To my way of thinking, aimed at academics who dismiss Wikipedia or seek to outright ban it, as well as students who might be tempted to cite Wikipedia because they don't know better. Not perhaps most appropriate for an academic journal, but perhaps the "knol" on Wikipedia could teach people how to use it. :)

We're not talking about referencing Wikipedia in an academic paper, we're talking about publishing a Wikipedia article in an academic journal.

I was thinking about the fact that wikipedia was still a tricky subject regarding its use for referencing in the academic world. I was wondering if it would not be possible to obtain from official academic bodies a sort of endorsement that would qualify a wikipedia article for "official" academic referencing?

Perhaps we could submit a few of the better articles to academic journals. And see how that goes. I'm sure we would learn a lot just from trying.