Re: [Wikimedia-l] (no subject) - Wikimedia-l

Andrea Zanni

3 Dec 3 Dec

10:25 a.m.

New subject: (no subject)

On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 10:09 AM, Pine W <wiki.pine(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Under the redesigned grants scheme, WMF Project grants might be able to help with this kind of software development work for Commons and/or Wikisource. I happen to know a developer here in Cascadia who might be interested, either as an individual or in association with a Wikimedia affiliate, in doing this kind of work on a grant or contract basis. Pinging Kacie for comment about possible grant funding. (:

Hi Pine, thanks for the comment. I understand what you mean, and I do believe there is space to work on Wikisource via grants, BUT. But I already did a Individual Engagement Grant in 2013 (with David Cuenca) regarding Wikisource. It was great, but IEGs don't give you staff time. So me and David used Google Summer of Code, and we mentored 4 projects: if I'm not mistaken, only one was really finished, meaning it produced concrete results on Wikisource. Others stopped before (for example, two dedicated mediawiki extensions were not put in production). Within the IEG, we made a big survey among Wikisource communities, to develop a wishlist and a roadmap for WS communities. We set up a Wikisource Community User Group. We talked and talked. Bugs were and are reported, from years. Two weeks ago, we convened the very first internationl Wikisource conference, in Vienna, hosted by Wikimedia Austria (3 members from WMF were there, and we had a great and productive time, reports will follow). I've personally been involved in all of these efforts, so I've also seen that real impact of Wikisource infrastructure (core WS extension, design, interface, performance, development) has been minimal. I don't really want to have this conversation here and now, but I have had a fair amount of experience in this to say that until the WMF (or some affiliate big enough and high enough in the software pipeline) commit to WS, change won't magically happen by itself. We have practically one real volunteer developer, and he's full of work to do (also, I already asked him if he would like to receive a grant to work on certain issues, and he can't, and he's the only one who could do that, thanks to his unique experience). Grant works for little things, I'm afraid. Major change requires something else. Aubrey

Reply

Rob

7:58 p.m.

New subject: (no subject)

I don't think this rises to the level of outrage, but it's a little important. The goal of the WMF should be to promote free and open content, and this adds to the perception that the WMF is disconnected from those goals and the community. I don't care if they use a stock photo if they need to, but when they have smart, capable, and creative people like Victor Grigas on staff, they can certainly manage to photograph a cup of coffee and release it as a CC photo to set a good example for the community and movement. On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 4:41 AM, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

Hoi, It is that time of year where money is asked from the people. Arguably we would do more when the Wikimedia foundation was not so FF-ing Wikipedia centred.The arguments for not giving Wikisource have passed their sell by date and usability for exposing its wonderful work is imho a disfigurement on the resume of the WMF (among others). This is a cheap one to fix. It makes sense to fix it as I understand sources are part of "Wikimedia Zero" and it would make a world of a difference when the sources can actually be found. Unicef among others has fundraising campaigns for education because it is not its most important priority. As long as kids die because of lack of food, safe water, preventable disease and temperature it is obvious why. Such an excuse the WMF does not have. It could ask for additional funding for Wikisource, for Wikidata for ... and it would have a solid argument. Thanks, GerardM On 3 December 2015 at 10:25, Andrea Zanni <zanni.andrea84(a)gmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 10:09 AM, Pine W <wiki.pine(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Under the redesigned grants scheme, WMF Project grants might be able to help with this kind of software development work for Commons and/or Wikisource. I happen to know a developer here in Cascadia who might be interested, either as an individual or in association with a Wikimedia affiliate, in doing this kind of work on a grant or contract basis. Pinging Kacie for comment about possible grant funding. (:

Hi Pine, thanks for the comment. I understand what you mean, and I do believe there is space to work on Wikisource via grants, BUT. But I already did a Individual Engagement Grant in 2013 (with David Cuenca) regarding Wikisource. It was great, but IEGs don't give you staff time. So me and David used Google Summer of Code, and we mentored 4 projects: if I'm not mistaken, only one was really finished, meaning it produced concrete results on Wikisource. Others stopped before (for example, two dedicated mediawiki extensions were not put in production). Within the IEG, we made a big survey among Wikisource communities, to develop a wishlist and a roadmap for WS communities. We set up a Wikisource Community User Group. We talked and talked. Bugs were and are reported, from years. Two weeks ago, we convened the very first internationl Wikisource conference, in Vienna, hosted by Wikimedia Austria (3 members from WMF were there, and we had a great and productive time, reports will follow). I've personally been involved in all of these efforts, so I've also seen that real impact of Wikisource infrastructure (core WS extension, design, interface, performance, development) has been minimal. I don't really want to have this conversation here and now, but I have had a fair amount of experience in this to say that until the WMF (or some affiliate big enough and high enough in the software pipeline) commit to WS, change won't magically happen by itself. We have practically one real volunteer developer, and he's full of work to do (also, I already asked him if he would like to receive a grant to work on certain issues, and he can't, and he's the only one who could do that, thanks to his unique experience). Grant works for little things, I'm afraid. Major change requires something else. Aubrey _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

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Reply

geni

9:09 p.m.

New subject: (no subject)

On 3 December 2015 at 19:29, Lisa Gruwell <lgruwell(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:

...

We agree with you that WMF fundraising should not use stock photography. This was a mistake by a designer.

They made a mistake with a Getty image?

...

We pulled that banner yesterday and asked our designers for a new custom image that we can freely license.

To clarify these are different designers? Messing with Getty is not something you want to be doing. -- geni

Reply

John Mark Vandenberg

10:11 p.m.

New subject: (no subject)

"On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 6:29 AM, Lisa Gruwell <lgruwell(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:

...

We agree with you that WMF fundraising should not use stock photography. This was a mistake by a designer. We specify in our contracts with outside designers that the images used should be custom artwork that WMF owns (and can then share) or freely licensed images.

Someone needed to approve purchasing the stock photograph. They are not free...? Was it WMF or Trilogy? Even if it was Trilogy, WMF sanity check processes are also not working. Surely someone at WMF is responsible for QA of the images used in fundraising? https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:ListFiles shows this stock photograph was uploaded to donate.wikimedia.org many times, and worked on by WMF staff members. https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:10-coffee-txt-thepricekeepswikithriv… - SPatton (WMF) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:03-coffee-txt-goingallyear.jpg - SPatton (WMF) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Newgreen.jpg - SPatton (WMF) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Greencoffeecup-alt.jpg - SPatton (WMF) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Greencoffeecup-4.jpg - SPatton (WMF) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coffee-price-overhead-redcup.jpg - SPatton (WMF) (marked as CC-BY-SA; is that legal with the Getty Image?) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coffee-overhead-3dollars.jpg - RStearns (Trilogy) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coffee-overhead-small.jpg - RStearns (Trilogy) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coffee-overhead-no-text.jpg - BHouse (Trilogy) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coffee-overhead-small.png - RStearns (Trilogy) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coffee-fr-faites_v1.png - Jseddon (WMF) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coffee-fr-offrez_v2.png - Jseddon (WMF) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coffee-fr-offrez_v1.png - Jseddon (WMF) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coffee-it-oggi_offri_v2.png - Jseddon (WMF) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coffee-it-oggi_offri_v1.png - Jseddon (WMF) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coffee-it-dona_caffe_v2.png - Jseddon (WMF) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coffee-it-dona_caffe_v1.png - Jseddon (WMF) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coffee-en-donate_coffee_v2.png - Jseddon (WMF) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coffee-en-donate_coffee_v1.png - Jseddon (WMF) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coffee-price-overhead.jpg - BHouse (Trilogy) Jseddon uploaded several alternative coffee cup photographs to donate.wikimedia.org (no metadata, but they look like his own work..., and not too shabby) . How did a stock photograph become selected over other options, and ownership/copyright was never raised during those selection discussions? That is a lot of donor money wasted by someone somehow deciding to use a Getty image as part of a multimillion dollor fundraising drive for an organisation supporting "It is like a library or a public park. It is like a temple for the mind. It is a place we can all go to think, to learn, to share our knowledge with others." I do hope your contract with the external design company allows you to reclaim the wasted donor money caused by their violation of the contract regarding image selection. "We’ve worked hard over the years to keep it lean and tight. We fulfill our mission, and leave waste to others."

...

We pulled that banner yesterday

Thank you.

...

and asked our designers for a new custom image that we can freely license.

Why not use the Coffee SVG I found (very easily I must say)?

...

We are running another banner with a custom light bulb image at 100% now. This artwork will be added to Commons.

IMO they should be uploaded to Commons first, with full metadata, and create a workflow added around begging the Commons community to prioritise checking these images quickly so they can be used in the fundraiser. That was how it was done before donate.wikimedia.org , when wikimediafoundation.org was used for these uploads, and that wiki had a significant volunteer community assisting in maintenance. Uploads to donate.wikimedia.org should either be limited to people competent in copyright and responsible for that aspect, or at the very least the upload forms should require that metadata is filled in, and someone at WMF checks new additions regularly. -- John Vandenberg

Reply

Bohdan Melnychuk

4 Dec 4 Dec

12:11 a.m.

New subject: (no subject)

That is not a small thing. That is an enormous thing. We show people some unfree image while propagating free stuff. Hypocrisy? We are speaking about thousands of people seeing it. It is good that the stuff was removed, but from my point of view that another image with link to an external site rather than to Commons is still a very bad thing. It reminds me those games where ads are ways better than the game itself. Commons must contain the images used to help funding projects one of which is Commons. Another disturbing point indeed is WMF hiding on all these wikis like donatewiki, votewiki <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Forum/Archives/2015-06#License_policy_abuse_on_votewiki>and similar where it freely violates its own licensing policy and where they are safe from the community. It looks like WMF has some pleasure from spitting on some of the values which define it and which are very important for us. For me to look on these particular mentioned wikis, to see a bad abuse there and to be able to do nothing is very humiliating. I just cannot imagine such things to be mistakes. If it after all is a mistake then it's systematical one and something with the organization is wrong. Wrong things are those which need fixes. --Base On 03.12.2015 23:49, Rob wrote:

...

I doubt the selection of a single image occupied that much staff time and discussion. No process is perfect. This is a small thing, that was quickly fixed. I doubt a lot of money was wasted here. On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 4:11 PM, John Mark Vandenberg <jayvdb(a)gmail.com> wrote:

"On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 6:29 AM, Lisa Gruwell <lgruwell(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:

We agree with you that WMF fundraising should not use stock photography. This was a mistake by a designer. We specify in our contracts with outside designers that the images used should be custom artwork that WMF owns (and can then share) or freely licensed images.

Someone needed to approve purchasing the stock photograph. They are not free...? Was it WMF or Trilogy? Even if it was Trilogy, WMF sanity check processes are also not working. Surely someone at WMF is responsible for QA of the images used in fundraising? https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:ListFiles shows this stock photograph was uploaded to donate.wikimedia.org many times, and worked on by WMF staff members. https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:10-coffee-txt-thepricekeepswikithriv… - SPatton (WMF) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:03-coffee-txt-goingallyear.jpg - SPatton (WMF) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Newgreen.jpg - SPatton (WMF) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Greencoffeecup-alt.jpg - SPatton (WMF) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Greencoffeecup-4.jpg - SPatton (WMF) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coffee-price-overhead-redcup.jpg - SPatton (WMF) (marked as CC-BY-SA; is that legal with the Getty Image?) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coffee-overhead-3dollars.jpg - RStearns (Trilogy) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coffee-overhead-small.jpg - RStearns (Trilogy) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coffee-overhead-no-text.jpg - BHouse (Trilogy) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coffee-overhead-small.png - RStearns (Trilogy) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coffee-fr-faites_v1.png - Jseddon (WMF) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coffee-fr-offrez_v2.png - Jseddon (WMF) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coffee-fr-offrez_v1.png - Jseddon (WMF) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coffee-it-oggi_offri_v2.png - Jseddon (WMF) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coffee-it-oggi_offri_v1.png - Jseddon (WMF) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coffee-it-dona_caffe_v2.png - Jseddon (WMF) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coffee-it-dona_caffe_v1.png - Jseddon (WMF) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coffee-en-donate_coffee_v2.png - Jseddon (WMF) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coffee-en-donate_coffee_v1.png - Jseddon (WMF) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coffee-price-overhead.jpg - BHouse (Trilogy) Jseddon uploaded several alternative coffee cup photographs to donate.wikimedia.org (no metadata, but they look like his own work..., and not too shabby) . How did a stock photograph become selected over other options, and ownership/copyright was never raised during those selection discussions? That is a lot of donor money wasted by someone somehow deciding to use a Getty image as part of a multimillion dollor fundraising drive for an organisation supporting "It is like a library or a public park. It is like a temple for the mind. It is a place we can all go to think, to learn, to share our knowledge with others." I do hope your contract with the external design company allows you to reclaim the wasted donor money caused by their violation of the contract regarding image selection. "We’ve worked hard over the years to keep it lean and tight. We fulfill our mission, and leave waste to others."

We pulled that banner yesterday

Thank you.

and asked our designers for a new custom image that we can freely license.

Why not use the Coffee SVG I found (very easily I must say)?

We are running another banner with a custom light bulb image at 100% now. This artwork will be added to Commons.

IMO they should be uploaded to Commons first, with full metadata, and create a workflow added around begging the Commons community to prioritise checking these images quickly so they can be used in the fundraiser. That was how it was done before donate.wikimedia.org , when wikimediafoundation.org was used for these uploads, and that wiki had a significant volunteer community assisting in maintenance. Uploads to donate.wikimedia.org should either be limited to people competent in copyright and responsible for that aspect, or at the very least the upload forms should require that metadata is filled in, and someone at WMF checks new additions regularly. -- John Vandenberg _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

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Reply

geni

1:21 a.m.

New subject: (no subject)

On 3 December 2015 at 23:29, Gnangarra <gnangarra(a)gmail.com> wrote:

...

hold it, back up the truck for a moment If the WMF has a fundraising team and a PR/media team why is it paying a third party to provide the banners surely someone should be able to design them in house, what about someone from the design teams working on other projects. If no one has the skills to layout a banner why not ask the community for some options there are many skilled volunteers that would gladly do it for free, the WMF could even offer a scholarship to Wikimania as an incentive to get it done within a short time frame.

Graphic design is really one of those things better left to professionals. Equally for a handful of banners going externally rather than employing someone full time makes sense. Admittedly the WMF hasn't had the best of luck with its external contractors (wikipedia forever, this) but in principle it is a valid approach. -- geni

Reply

Rob

12:30 a.m.

New subject: (no subject)

"It looks like WMF has some pleasure from spitting on some of the values which define it and which are very important for us. For me to look on these particular mentioned wikis, to see a bad abuse there and to be able to do nothing is very humiliating." It was a photo of a cup of coffee. It was a mistake that was quickly acknowledged and corrected. Let's keep things in perspective, please. On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 6:11 PM, Bohdan Melnychuk <base-w(a)yandex.ru> wrote:

...

That is not a small thing. That is an enormous thing. We show people some unfree image while propagating free stuff. Hypocrisy? We are speaking about thousands of people seeing it. It is good that the stuff was removed, but from my point of view that another image with link to an external site rather than to Commons is still a very bad thing. It reminds me those games where ads are ways better than the game itself. Commons must contain the images used to help funding projects one of which is Commons. Another disturbing point indeed is WMF hiding on all these wikis like donatewiki, votewiki <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Forum/Archives/2015-06#License_policy_abuse_on_votewiki>and similar where it freely violates its own licensing policy and where they are safe from the community. It looks like WMF has some pleasure from spitting on some of the values which define it and which are very important for us. For me to look on these particular mentioned wikis, to see a bad abuse there and to be able to do nothing is very humiliating. I just cannot imagine such things to be mistakes. If it after all is a mistake then it's systematical one and something with the organization is wrong. Wrong things are those which need fixes. --Base On 03.12.2015 23:49, Rob wrote:

I doubt the selection of a single image occupied that much staff time and discussion. No process is perfect. This is a small thing, that was quickly fixed. I doubt a lot of money was wasted here. On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 4:11 PM, John Mark Vandenberg <jayvdb(a)gmail.com> wrote:

"On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 6:29 AM, Lisa Gruwell <lgruwell(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:

We agree with you that WMF fundraising should not use stock photography. This was a mistake by a designer. We specify in our contracts with outside designers that the images used should be custom artwork that WMF owns (and can then share) or freely licensed images.

Someone needed to approve purchasing the stock photograph. They are not free...? Was it WMF or Trilogy? Even if it was Trilogy, WMF sanity check processes are also not working. Surely someone at WMF is responsible for QA of the images used in fundraising? https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:ListFiles shows this stock photograph was uploaded to donate.wikimedia.org many times, and worked on by WMF staff members. https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:10-coffee-txt-thepricekeepswikithriv… - SPatton (WMF) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:03-coffee-txt-goingallyear.jpg - SPatton (WMF) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Newgreen.jpg - SPatton (WMF) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Greencoffeecup-alt.jpg - SPatton (WMF) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Greencoffeecup-4.jpg - SPatton (WMF) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coffee-price-overhead-redcup.jpg - SPatton (WMF) (marked as CC-BY-SA; is that legal with the Getty Image?) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coffee-overhead-3dollars.jpg - RStearns (Trilogy) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coffee-overhead-small.jpg - RStearns (Trilogy) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coffee-overhead-no-text.jpg - BHouse (Trilogy) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coffee-overhead-small.png - RStearns (Trilogy) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coffee-fr-faites_v1.png - Jseddon (WMF) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coffee-fr-offrez_v2.png - Jseddon (WMF) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coffee-fr-offrez_v1.png - Jseddon (WMF) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coffee-it-oggi_offri_v2.png - Jseddon (WMF) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coffee-it-oggi_offri_v1.png - Jseddon (WMF) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coffee-it-dona_caffe_v2.png - Jseddon (WMF) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coffee-it-dona_caffe_v1.png - Jseddon (WMF) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coffee-en-donate_coffee_v2.png - Jseddon (WMF) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coffee-en-donate_coffee_v1.png - Jseddon (WMF) https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coffee-price-overhead.jpg - BHouse (Trilogy) Jseddon uploaded several alternative coffee cup photographs to donate.wikimedia.org (no metadata, but they look like his own work..., and not too shabby) . How did a stock photograph become selected over other options, and ownership/copyright was never raised during those selection discussions? That is a lot of donor money wasted by someone somehow deciding to use a Getty image as part of a multimillion dollor fundraising drive for an organisation supporting "It is like a library or a public park. It is like a temple for the mind. It is a place we can all go to think, to learn, to share our knowledge with others." I do hope your contract with the external design company allows you to reclaim the wasted donor money caused by their violation of the contract regarding image selection. "We’ve worked hard over the years to keep it lean and tight. We fulfill our mission, and leave waste to others."

We pulled that banner yesterday

Thank you.

and asked our designers for a new custom image that we can freely license.

Why not use the Coffee SVG I found (very easily I must say)?

We are running another banner with a custom light bulb image at 100% now. This artwork will be added to Commons.

IMO they should be uploaded to Commons first, with full metadata, and create a workflow added around begging the Commons community to prioritise checking these images quickly so they can be used in the fundraiser. That was how it was done before donate.wikimedia.org , when wikimediafoundation.org was used for these uploads, and that wiki had a significant volunteer community assisting in maintenance. Uploads to donate.wikimedia.org should either be limited to people competent in copyright and responsible for that aspect, or at the very least the upload forms should require that metadata is filled in, and someone at WMF checks new additions regularly. -- John Vandenberg _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

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Reply

MZMcBride

1:50 a.m.

New subject: (no subject)

Rob wrote:

...

It was a photo of a cup of coffee. It was a mistake that was quickly acknowledged and corrected. Let's keep things in perspective, please.

Agreed. I'd much rather see focus put on Liam's e-mail about the general fund-raising problem, the current solution to which is deploying overly large advertisements on Wikipedia in a few rich countries for several weeks. If we're willing to donate the entire screen space to an ad for the Wikimedia Foundation, it probably makes sense to at least reconsider whether a smaller, less obtrusive paid ad for a company or organization would be better. I imagine many companies and organizations would be willing to pay a premium for a much smaller ad slot, given Wikipedia's level of traffic and the limited supply of ad space that we'd likely be willing to sell. At what point is having horribly large and intrusive ads worse than having much smaller and faster paid ad campaigns? MZMcBride

Reply

Michael Peel

4:57 p.m.

New subject: (no subject)

Try when logged out - the links worked fine for me after logging out. Thanks, Mike

...

On 4 Dec 2015, at 15:54, Peter Southwood <peter.southwood(a)telkomsa.net> wrote: Lisa, when you give us links to look at new versions of banners, please try to use links that actually display the banners. Cheers, Peter -----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Lisa Gruwell Sent: Thursday, 03 December 2015 9:30 PM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] (no subject) We agree with you that WMF fundraising should not use stock photography. This was a mistake by a designer. We specify in our contracts with outside designers that the images used should be custom artwork that WMF owns (and can then share) or freely licensed images. We pulled that banner yesterday and asked our designers for a new custom image that we can freely license. We are running another banner with a custom light bulb image at 100% now. This artwork will be added to Commons. We also have a few new banners featuring some beautiful Commons images that are under development: Stars <https://en.wikipedia.org/?banner=B1516_0916_en6C_dsk_p1_lg_strinf&force=1&country=US> , Penguin <https://en.wikipedia.org/?banner=B1516_0916_en6C_dsk_p1_lg_pngsml&force=1&country=US> Thank you for pointing this out to us. Best, Lisa

On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 10:58 AM, Rob <gamaliel8(a)gmail.com> wrote: I don't think this rises to the level of outrage, but it's a little important. The goal of the WMF should be to promote free and open content, and this adds to the perception that the WMF is disconnected from those goals and the community. I don't care if they use a stock photo if they need to, but when they have smart, capable, and creative people like Victor Grigas on staff, they can certainly manage to photograph a cup of coffee and release it as a CC photo to set a good example for the community and movement. On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 4:41 AM, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Hoi, It is that time of year where money is asked from the people. Arguably we would do more when the Wikimedia foundation was not so FF-ing Wikipedia centred.The arguments for not giving Wikisource have passed their sell by date and usability for exposing its wonderful work is imho a

disfigurement

on the resume of the WMF (among others). This is a cheap one to fix. It makes sense to fix it as I understand sources are part of "Wikimedia

Zero"

and it would make a world of a difference when the sources can actually

be

found. Unicef among others has fundraising campaigns for education because it is not its most important priority. As long as kids die because of lack of food, safe water, preventable disease and temperature it is obvious why. Such an excuse the WMF does not have. It could ask for additional funding for Wikisource, for Wikidata for ... and it would have a solid argument. Thanks, GerardM

On 3 December 2015 at 10:25, Andrea Zanni <zanni.andrea84(a)gmail.com>

wrote: >> On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 10:09 AM, Pine W <wiki.pine(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Under the redesigned grants scheme, WMF Project grants might be >> able

to

>> help with this kind of software development work for Commons >> and/or Wikisource. I happen to know a developer here in Cascadia >> who might be interested, either as an individual or in >> association with a Wikimedia affiliate, in doing this kind of work on a grant or contract basis. >> >> Pinging Kacie for comment about possible grant funding. (: > > > Hi Pine, thanks for the comment. > I understand what you mean, and I do believe there is space to work > on Wikisource via grants, BUT. > > But I already did a Individual Engagement Grant in 2013 (with David

Cuenca)

> regarding Wikisource. > It was great, but IEGs don't give you staff time. So me and David > used Google Summer of Code, and we mentored 4 projects: if I'm not > mistaken, only one was really finished, meaning it produced > concrete results on Wikisource. Others stopped before (for example, > two dedicated mediawiki extensions were not put in production). > Within the IEG, we made a big survey among Wikisource communities, > to develop a wishlist and a roadmap for WS communities. We set up a > Wikisource Community User Group. We

talked

> and talked. Bugs were and are reported, from years. Two weeks ago, > we convened the very first internationl Wikisource conference, in > Vienna, hosted by Wikimedia Austria (3 members from WMF were there, > and we had a great and productive time, reports will follow). > > I've personally been involved in all of these efforts, so I've also > seen that real impact of Wikisource infrastructure (core WS > extension,

design,

> interface, performance, development) has been minimal. I don't > really

want

> to have this conversation here and now, but I have had a fair > amount of experience in this to say that until the WMF (or some > affiliate big

enough

> and high enough in the software pipeline) commit to WS, change > won't magically happen by itself. We have practically one real > volunteer developer, and he's full of work to do (also, I already > asked him if he would like to receive a grant to work on certain > issues, and he can't,

and

> he's the only one who could do that, thanks to his unique experience). > > Grant works for little things, I'm afraid. Major change requires

something

else. Aubrey _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

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Reply

Peter Southwood

5:24 p.m.

New subject: (no subject)

Nope, doesn’t help. Surely it is possible to have a direct link to the banner which always works, wherever you are, and whether or not you are logged in. Cheers, Peter -----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Michael Peel Sent: Friday, 04 December 2015 5:58 PM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] (no subject) Try when logged out - the links worked fine for me after logging out. Thanks, Mike

...

On 4 Dec 2015, at 15:54, Peter Southwood <peter.southwood(a)telkomsa.net> wrote: Lisa, when you give us links to look at new versions of banners, please try to use links that actually display the banners. Cheers, Peter -----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Lisa Gruwell Sent: Thursday, 03 December 2015 9:30 PM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] (no subject) We agree with you that WMF fundraising should not use stock photography. This was a mistake by a designer. We specify in our contracts with outside designers that the images used should be custom artwork that WMF owns (and can then share) or freely licensed images. We pulled that banner yesterday and asked our designers for a new custom image that we can freely license. We are running another banner with a custom light bulb image at 100% now. This artwork will be added to Commons. We also have a few new banners featuring some beautiful Commons images that are under development: Stars <https://en.wikipedia.org/?banner=B1516_0916_en6C_dsk_p1_lg_strinf&for ce=1&country=US> , Penguin <https://en.wikipedia.org/?banner=B1516_0916_en6C_dsk_p1_lg_pngsml&for ce=1&country=US> Thank you for pointing this out to us. Best, Lisa

On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 10:58 AM, Rob <gamaliel8(a)gmail.com> wrote: I don't think this rises to the level of outrage, but it's a little important. The goal of the WMF should be to promote free and open content, and this adds to the perception that the WMF is disconnected from those goals and the community. I don't care if they use a stock photo if they need to, but when they have smart, capable, and creative people like Victor Grigas on staff, they can certainly manage to photograph a cup of coffee and release it as a CC photo to set a good example for the community and movement. On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 4:41 AM, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Hoi, It is that time of year where money is asked from the people. Arguably we would do more when the Wikimedia foundation was not so FF-ing Wikipedia centred.The arguments for not giving Wikisource have passed their sell by date and usability for exposing its wonderful work is imho a

disfigurement

on the resume of the WMF (among others). This is a cheap one to fix. It makes sense to fix it as I understand sources are part of "Wikimedia

Zero"

and it would make a world of a difference when the sources can actually

be

found. Unicef among others has fundraising campaigns for education because it is not its most important priority. As long as kids die because of lack of food, safe water, preventable disease and temperature it is obvious why. Such an excuse the WMF does not have. It could ask for additional funding for Wikisource, for Wikidata for ... and it would have a solid argument. Thanks, GerardM

On 3 December 2015 at 10:25, Andrea Zanni <zanni.andrea84(a)gmail.com>

wrote: >> On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 10:09 AM, Pine W <wiki.pine(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Under the redesigned grants scheme, WMF Project grants might be >> able

to

>> help with this kind of software development work for Commons >> and/or Wikisource. I happen to know a developer here in Cascadia >> who might be interested, either as an individual or in association >> with a Wikimedia affiliate, in doing this kind of work on a grant or contract basis. >> >> Pinging Kacie for comment about possible grant funding. (: > > > Hi Pine, thanks for the comment. > I understand what you mean, and I do believe there is space to work > on Wikisource via grants, BUT. > > But I already did a Individual Engagement Grant in 2013 (with David

Cuenca)

> regarding Wikisource. > It was great, but IEGs don't give you staff time. So me and David > used Google Summer of Code, and we mentored 4 projects: if I'm not > mistaken, only one was really finished, meaning it produced > concrete results on Wikisource. Others stopped before (for example, > two dedicated mediawiki extensions were not put in production). > Within the IEG, we made a big survey among Wikisource communities, > to develop a wishlist and a roadmap for WS communities. We set up a > Wikisource Community User Group. We

talked

> and talked. Bugs were and are reported, from years. Two weeks ago, > we convened the very first internationl Wikisource conference, in > Vienna, hosted by Wikimedia Austria (3 members from WMF were there, > and we had a great and productive time, reports will follow). > > I've personally been involved in all of these efforts, so I've also > seen that real impact of Wikisource infrastructure (core WS > extension,

design,

> interface, performance, development) has been minimal. I don't > really

want

> to have this conversation here and now, but I have had a fair > amount of experience in this to say that until the WMF (or some > affiliate big

enough

> and high enough in the software pipeline) commit to WS, change > won't magically happen by itself. We have practically one real > volunteer developer, and he's full of work to do (also, I already > asked him if he would like to receive a grant to work on certain > issues, and he can't,

and

> he's the only one who could do that, thanks to his unique experience). > > Grant works for little things, I'm afraid. Major change requires

something

else. Aubrey _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe

_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines

Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,

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