The Election Committee would like to ask the community of administrator on Meta to refrain from editing the English version of the Board election page [[m:Board elections/2008/en]].
The page was protected by the committee as it contain the official rules for the election, and is the source for translations. Its current wording and formatting is what's agreed by the committee.
Of course, if you spot anything which you think may be an error, any ambiguity, or any points which you feel should be modified, feel free to suggest it to the election committee either on the talk page, on this list, or straight to the election committee. However, please take into account any changes to the page requires all the translations to be updated and hence it is unlikely the page will be modify simply for small grammatical changes.
For the election committee,
Kwan Ting Chan - [[m:User:KTC]]
2008/5/2 Kwan Ting Chan ktc@ktchan.info:
The Election Committee would like to ask the community of administrator on Meta to refrain from editing the English version of the Board election page [[m:Board elections/2008/en]].
The page was protected by the committee as it contain the official rules for the election, and is the source for translations. Its current wording and formatting is what's agreed by the committee.
Of course, if you spot anything which you think may be an error, any ambiguity, or any points which you feel should be modified, feel free to suggest it to the election committee either on the talk page, on this list, or straight to the election committee. However, please take into account any changes to the page requires all the translations to be updated and hence it is unlikely the page will be modify simply for small grammatical changes.
For the election committee,
Kwan Ting Chan - [[m:User:KTC]]https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Minor points such as typos, spacing, and anything that doesn't affect the actual wording shouldn't need permission to fix. It is a wiki after all. If someone has translated it without noticing the typo, then it's the problem of the translator, not of the person correcting the mistake.
On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 10:46 AM, Majorly axel9891@googlemail.com wrote:
Minor points such as typos, spacing, and anything that doesn't affect the actual wording shouldn't need permission to fix. It is a wiki after all. If someone has translated it without noticing the typo, then it's the problem of the translator, not of the person correcting the mistake.https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Typos won't hurt anyone. The much bigger problem is that if a change doesn't actually reflect what is meant, then that could be translated incorrectly, and incorrect information spreads.
One edit to [[m:Board elections/2008/en]] was a well-meant change regarding the requirements to run for election, changing "2007" to "2008". The contributor assumed that it was copied from last year's page, and hadn't been changed. The problem was, 2007 was /correct/ for that particular requirement.
Given the possibility of incorrect translations that could have negative effects on voting from some communities, or in the case of the above edit, make a user think they're eligible to run when they actually aren't, I don't think a blanket "don't edit this, please" is unreasonable.
2008/5/2 Ryan wiki.ral315@gmail.com:
Typos won't hurt anyone. The much bigger problem is that if a change doesn't actually reflect what is meant, then that could be translated incorrectly, and incorrect information spreads.
One edit to [[m:Board elections/2008/en]] was a well-meant change regarding the requirements to run for election, changing "2007" to "2008". The contributor assumed that it was copied from last year's page, and hadn't been changed. The problem was, 2007 was /correct/ for that particular requirement.
Given the possibility of incorrect translations that could have negative effects on voting from some communities, or in the case of the above edit, make a user think they're eligible to run when they actually aren't, I don't think a blanket "don't edit this, please" is unreasonable.https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
That was not a simple typo fix.
On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 1:00 AM, Majorly axel9891@googlemail.com wrote:
That was not a simple typo fix.
But clearly someone thought it was, and that illustrates why it's better to leave all of that up to the election committee.
On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 12:03 AM, Stephen Bain stephen.bain@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 1:00 AM, Majorly axel9891@googlemail.com wrote:
That was not a simple typo fix.
But clearly someone thought it was, and that illustrates why it's better to leave all of that up to the election committee.
I agree. And only the committee have the knowledge enough determine if it is a minor fix or serious mistake with the sufficient background knowledge and context, I wholeheartedly recommend meta admins to respect a long year custom not to edit the page unless you serves the committee at the same time. And for the committee, I'd recommend to note explicitly only they are allowed to edits and other may welcome to remark on the talk page, just the past teams did from the beginning.
HI Aphaia -
Such a notation is in a box at the top of the page, and has been for a couple of days - that hasn't stopped some edits from happening, which is why KTC brought it here.
Philippe
-------------------------------------------------- From: "Aphaia" aphaia@gmail.com Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 10:13 AM To: "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List" foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Modification of the official board election page
On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 12:03 AM, Stephen Bain stephen.bain@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 1:00 AM, Majorly axel9891@googlemail.com wrote:
That was not a simple typo fix.
But clearly someone thought it was, and that illustrates why it's better to leave all of that up to the election committee.
I agree. And only the committee have the knowledge enough determine if it is a minor fix or serious mistake with the sufficient background knowledge and context, I wholeheartedly recommend meta admins to respect a long year custom not to edit the page unless you serves the committee at the same time. And for the committee, I'd recommend to note explicitly only they are allowed to edits and other may welcome to remark on the talk page, just the past teams did from the beginning.
-- KIZU Naoko http://d.hatena.ne.jp/Britty (in Japanese) Quote of the Day (English): http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/WQ:QOTD
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Majorly wrote:
2008/5/2 Ryan wiki.ral315@gmail.com:
Typos won't hurt anyone. The much bigger problem is that if a change doesn't actually reflect what is meant, then that could be translated incorrectly, and incorrect information spreads.
One edit to [[m:Board elections/2008/en]] was a well-meant change regarding the requirements to run for election, changing "2007" to "2008". The contributor assumed that it was copied from last year's page, and hadn't been changed. The problem was, 2007 was /correct/ for that particular requirement.
Given the possibility of incorrect translations that could have negative effects on voting from some communities, or in the case of the above edit, make a user think they're eligible to run when they actually aren't, I don't think a blanket "don't edit this, please" is unreasonable.https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
That was not a simple typo fix.
Who decides whether it is? It would not be unreasonable to view that example as a simple typo fix. It's only a matter of a single digit in the year. Taking the time to ask about it does no harm.
Ec
I completely agree with Ray here. If a document have an official effects, people who are legitimately in charge of the matter should take care, and the others are welcome to point out unclear passages, and any kind of possible errors including grammatical.
But it is not you, Majorly, or me, which is a minor change and which is not. Both you and I are no member of that committee. It is their tasks, let them do their own work.
And I would add this rigidity has been a tradition, afaik, since the first Board election was held. As far as I know, Election committees in each year unanimously have supported this idea, exactly Ray explained in his mails.
On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 3:48 AM, Ray Saintonge saintonge@telus.net wrote:
Majorly wrote:
2008/5/2 Ryan wiki.ral315@gmail.com:
Typos won't hurt anyone. The much bigger problem is that if a change doesn't actually reflect what is meant, then that could be translated incorrectly, and incorrect information spreads.
One edit to [[m:Board elections/2008/en]] was a well-meant change regarding the requirements to run for election, changing "2007" to "2008". The contributor assumed that it was copied from last year's page, and hadn't been changed. The problem was, 2007 was /correct/ for that particular requirement.
Given the possibility of incorrect translations that could have negative effects on voting from some communities, or in the case of the above edit, make a user think they're eligible to run when they actually aren't, I don't think a blanket "don't edit this, please" is unreasonable.https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
That was not a simple typo fix.
Who decides whether it is? It would not be unreasonable to view that example as a simple typo fix. It's only a matter of a single digit in the year. Taking the time to ask about it does no harm.
Ec
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
I completely agree with Ray here. If a document have an official effects, people who are legitimately in charge of the matter should take care, and the others are welcome to point out unclear passages, and any kind of possible errors including grammatical.
But it is not you, Majorly, or me, which is a minor change and which is not. Both you and I are no member of that committee. It is their tasks, let them do their own work.
And I would add this rigidity has been a tradition, afaik, since the first Board election was held. As far as I know, Election committees in each year unanimously have supported this idea, exactly Ray explained in his mails.
While I agree with all the above, I have the following question: Is it stated somewhere that only the English original has a legitimate power? I mean, the translators are doing their best, but there is no way the translations will be read with the same care as the original; for instance, they will never be read by a professional lawyer. Shouldn't it be a disclaimer on every translated page stating that all legal claims can only be addressed towards the English text? I am not sure I want somebody suing me because in Russian translation I unwillingly omitted a comma.
Cheers Yaroslav
On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 2:19 AM, Yaroslav M. Blanter putevod@mccme.ru wrote:
While I agree with all the above, I have the following question: Is it stated somewhere that only the English original has a legitimate power? I mean, the translators are doing their best, but there is no way the translations will be read with the same care as the original; for instance, they will never be read by a professional lawyer. Shouldn't it be a disclaimer on every translated page stating that all legal claims can only be addressed towards the English text? I am not sure I want somebody suing me because in Russian translation I unwillingly omitted a comma.
Cheers Yaroslav
It shouldn't be that big of a deal, I don't see anything too "legally" in there.
But if there *is* something very legal in there, then your idea is probably a good one. We do the same on Foundation wiki for translations of policies. http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Template:Disclaimer_for_translation
Majorly wrote:
2008/5/2 Kwan Ting Chan ktc@ktchan.info:
The Election Committee would like to ask the community of administrator on Meta to refrain from editing the English version of the Board election page [[m:Board elections/2008/en]].
The page was protected by the committee as it contain the official rules for the election, and is the source for translations. Its current wording and formatting is what's agreed by the committee.
Of course, if you spot anything which you think may be an error, any ambiguity, or any points which you feel should be modified, feel free to suggest it to the election committee either on the talk page, on this list, or straight to the election committee. However, please take into account any changes to the page requires all the translations to be updated and hence it is unlikely the page will be modify simply for small grammatical changes.
For the election committee, Kwan Ting Chan - [[m:User:KTC]]https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Minor points such as typos, spacing, and anything that doesn't affect the actual wording shouldn't need permission to fix. It is a wiki after all. If someone has translated it without noticing the typo, then it's the problem of the translator, not of the person correcting the mistake.
Quite the contrary. Sometimes these "minor" changes can imply subtle changes in the meaning. Even a comma can make a big difference, and that's more than a matter of grammatical correctness. In the popular book was it "Eats shoots and leaves," or "Eats, shoots and leaves?" When it comes to interpreting laws and rules, one can find ample examples of disputes that revolve around these minor changes. Historically, a major ecclesiastical schism was founded in the difference of an iota.
Saying that it's a wiki is not a valid excuse when we are talking about a page with prescriptive effects. En-wp suffers from this. A series of minor unopposed changes can have a much greater cumulative effect that completely change the intent of the policy. It leaves the editors wondering how we end up where we are.
Blaming the translator for not noticing the typo is inappropriate. Readings that give totally nonsensical results will probably be taken into account in the course of translation, but there are situations where a typo produces valid and meaningful results that have nothing to do with the writer's intent. Spell checkers are of no help when the wrong word is also in the dictionary.
Ec
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