Hello dear all,
Regardless of the way we decide to spent money, we have some in bank. It comes in. It comes out. So, we need some people to take care of financial issues.
Mav has renewed his interest in taking care of this after the elections. Angela and I are favorable to this. I will not speak up for Jimbo... as he is on holidays :-) Mav has been taking care of Wikimedia accounting for several months as far as I can remember. I did not hear there were any problems. He also is interested in working on the budget.
However, we wish that you have time to express disagreement if there is need to. So, if one doubts this is a wise decision, please say it so and *provide arguments*.
This is not meant to be a top-down decision, it is mostly that Mav said he was interested to do it, had done it well for many months, we trust him, and no one else has ever (afaik) said he would be willing to do it as well. My apologies if someone did and we did not realise :-)
Other people might be interested as well to participate in financial issues. In particular, the perspective of a professionnal on legal issues or on accounting would be most welcome. I think we should thrive to have teams as much as possible, and people with various perspectives, as it is more productive and usually more successful. A group of 3-5 people would be neat :-)
So, if someone is interested in being part of the financial committee, please speak up :-)
Criticism and/or nomination may be public or private.
Ant/Flo
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--- Anthere anthere9@yahoo.com wrote: > Hello dear all,
Regardless of the way we decide to spent money, we have some in bank. It comes in. It comes out. So, we need some people to take care of financial issues.
Mav has renewed his interest in taking care of this after the elections. Angela and I are favorable to this. I will not speak up for Jimbo... as he is on holidays :-) Mav has been taking care of Wikimedia accounting for several months as far as I can remember. I did not hear there were any problems. He also is interested in working on the budget.
What exactly are you suggesting? That Maveric149 should be the treasurer or he should be some sort of financial clerk?
If the former, then I believe the treasurer should be a member on the Board of Trustees. This fits in with the foundation bylaws as they currently stand ( http://www.wikimediafoundation.org/bylaws.pdf ). Having a treasurer that was not on the board would be unusual. If none of the current five board of trustees want to be the treasurer then I suggest that steps should be taken to get someone on to the board who does.
If the later, then I believe the the foundation is not big enough to warrant a clerk as well as a treasurer. And the treasurer should handle the bulk of financial dealings.
Other people might be interested as well to participate in financial issues. In particular, the perspective of a professionnal on legal issues or on accounting would be most welcome. I think we should thrive to have teams as much as possible, and people with various perspectives, as it is more productive and usually more successful. A group of 3-5 people would be neat :-)
So, if someone is interested in being part of the financial committee, please speak up :-)
Criticism and/or nomination may be public or private.
I will put my hand up for such a committee.
I believe it is important to get a set accounts drawn including a balance sheet and statement of income and expenditure. Then have them audited by a chartered accountant. Because often when applying for grants they will request an audited set of accounts.
Richard (aka Popsracer)
Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com
--- Richard Gallagher richie_a76@yahoo.co.nz wrote:
If the former, then I believe the treasurer should be a member on the Board of Trustees. This fits in with the foundation bylaws as they currently stand ( http://www.wikimediafoundation.org/bylaws.pdf ). Having a treasurer that was not on the board would be unusual.
After rereading the bylaws I now see that the don't preclude the treasurer from being someone outside the Board of Trustees. Although I still think it would be good if the treasurer was also on the board.
Richard (aka popsracer)
Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com
On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 15:46:10 +1200 (NZST), Richard Gallagher richie_a76@yahoo.co.nz wrote:
After rereading the bylaws I now see that the don't preclude the treasurer from being someone outside the Board of Trustees. Although I still think it would be good if the treasurer was also on the board.
Is that quite true? It reads:
Section 1. COMPOSITION OF BOARD. The Board of Trustees shall elect from among its members a Chair, Vice Chair, Executive Secretary and Treasurer. These officers shall be elected for one year terms of office by majority vote of the Board and may be re-elected at the expiration of their term. Any officer may be removed at any time for cause or without cause by an affirmative vote of a majority of the whole Board of Trustees.
"Elect from its members" seems to imply members of the Board of Trustees.
In either case, Mav has been enthusiastic, knowledgable and responsible in the role, and something that he has given his time to. We would all do well to have him oversee financial matters however the community or the Board decide that role should be defined.
-Andrew Lih (User:Fuzheado)
--- Andrew Lih andrew.lih@gmail.com wrote:
... In either case, Mav has been enthusiastic, knowledgable and responsible in the role, and something that he has given his time to.
Thanks. :)
We would all do well to have him oversee financial matters however the community or the Board decide that role should be defined.
Ant already answered how but I'll add this bit: A financial officer will be responsible for making detailed reports and presenting summaries at board meetings while the board treasurer will be responsible for overseeing the financial officer and for spearheading financial policy. If appointed by the board, I will accept this position.
Also, IMO, any appointed officer should be confirmed by an up or down vote of the membership (either within a certain amount of time from the appointment or at the next quarterly meeting of the foundation). But work can begin as soon as the appointment is made (just as executive appointments work in the real world).
In a sense Jimbo has already appointed me for this role by obtaining all the info he needed to do a background check on me and later sending me a bunch of Wikimedia's bank statements and asking me to draft a budget. But a formal appointment and a confirmation vote is still needed.
-- Daniel Mayer (aka mav)
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Richard Gallagher wrote:
--- Anthere anthere9@yahoo.com wrote: > Hello dear all,
Regardless of the way we decide to spent money, we have some in bank. It comes in. It comes out. So, we need some people to take care of financial issues.
Mav has renewed his interest in taking care of this after the elections. Angela and I are favorable to this. I will not speak up for Jimbo... as he is on holidays :-) Mav has been taking care of Wikimedia accounting for several months as far as I can remember. I did not hear there were any problems. He also is interested in working on the budget.
What exactly are you suggesting? That Maveric149 should be the treasurer or he should be some sort of financial clerk?
No. The treasurer is a board position. But the board is empowered to delegate activity to identified persons or to committees. Mav would be financial officer, and report to the Board.
If the former, then I believe the treasurer should be a member on the Board of Trustees. This fits in with the foundation bylaws as they currently stand ( http://www.wikimediafoundation.org/bylaws.pdf ). Having a treasurer that was not on the board would be unusual. If none of the current five board of trustees want to be the treasurer then I suggest that steps should be taken to get someone on to the board who does.
5 people can't assume everything that needs to be done. Not only "assume" (in terms of time) but also have the expertise to do it. This is why delegation is good. Why advice is good. Why having a wide range of opinions from knowledgeable people is good. That goes for finances, just as public relation activities, fundraising etc... And that is why any wikipedian help is welcome :-)
If the later, then I believe the the foundation is not big enough to warrant a clerk as well as a treasurer. And the treasurer should handle the bulk of financial dealings.
Other people might be interested as well to participate in financial issues. In particular, the perspective of a professionnal on legal issues or on accounting would be most welcome. I think we should thrive to have teams as much as possible, and people with various perspectives, as it is more productive and usually more successful. A group of 3-5 people would be neat :-)
So, if someone is interested in being part of the financial committee, please speak up :-)
Criticism and/or nomination may be public or private.
I will put my hand up for such a committee.
I personally do not know you. So, I will listen what other people will say :-)
I believe it is important to get a set accounts drawn including a balance sheet and statement of income and expenditure. Then have them audited by a chartered accountant. Because often when applying for grants they will request an audited set of accounts.
Richard (aka Popsracer)
Might you explain what you are thinking of, when you mention "a chartered accountant" ?
In all cases, I invite you to consult my user page on meta. http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/user:Anthere. It hosts a collection of links which might be of interest to you. In particular, do not forget to check out http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grants.
Thanks :-)
--- Anthere anthere9@yahoo.com wrote: >
What exactly are you suggesting? That Maveric149 should be the treasurer or he should be some sort
of
financial clerk?
No. The treasurer is a board position. But the board is empowered to delegate activity to identified persons or to committees. Mav would be financial officer, and report to the Board.
That clears it up a bit. Your original message did not go into much detail as to what exactly the role was. Personally I didn't see that there would be much financial work to do. So it did seem to me to be a bit redunant have both a treasurer and a financial officer.
But then again I am not familiar with intimate details of the foundations financial dealings. Would you be able to further describe this financial officer role and how it differs treasurer?
I believe it is important to get a set accounts
drawn
including a balance sheet and statement of income
and
expenditure. Then have them audited by a
chartered
accountant. Because often when applying for
grants
they will request an audited set of accounts.
Might you explain what you are thinking of, when you mention "a chartered accountant" ?
A chartered accountant is an accountant who is a member of institute of accountants for their country. Seeing as Wikimedia is US based I probably should have used the US equivalent term which is certified accountant. The thing is anyone can call themselves an accountant, while to call yourself a chartered/certified accountant you have to have passed some exams and have a certain amount of work experience.
In all cases, I invite you to consult my user page on meta. http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/user:Anthere. It hosts a collection of links which might be of interest to you. In particular, do not forget to check out http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grants.
Will do.
Richard (aka popsracer)
Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com
Anthere wrote:
I believe it is important to get a set accounts drawn including a balance sheet and statement of income and expenditure. Then have them audited by a chartered accountant. Because often when applying for grants they will request an audited set of accounts.
Richard (aka Popsracer)
Might you explain what you are thinking of, when you mention "a chartered accountant" ?
I think this means simply an accountant who is legally qualified to act as an accountant. Usually this is a "certified public accountant (CPA)" in the US, although there may be some special license for non-profits. Since we're chartered in Florida, someone with credentials to operate under Florida law is probably best. Basically, it's someone who has taken a set of tests and gotten a license that allows them to legally say "I have audited these accounts, and they are correct". Due especially to some relatively recent scandals, both in non-profits and in corporations, a lot of grant agencies in the US require officially audited account books these days, and that usually has to be done by an outside auditor (i.e. someone not affiliated with the organization, so a Wikipedian who is also an accountant wouldn't qualify) to make sure the money is being spent where the organization says it's being spent.
I think even if we did this, we'd still keep the books ourselves, and just submit them once per year to an outside auditor for a stamp of approval. I have no idea how much paying such a person would cost.
-Mark
--- Delirium delirium@hackish.org wrote:
... I think even if we did this, we'd still keep the books ourselves, and just submit them once per year to an outside auditor for a stamp of approval. I have no idea how much paying such a person would cost.
Jimbo has indicated to me that this is the plan. I'm not sure how much the yearly audit would cost though.
--mav
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I'd like to clarify what the situation on this is now following discussions at the weekend. Daniel has been appointed Chief Financial Officer, and will work closely with Anthere in this role as she is interested in these financial issues as well. It is expected Michael Davis will hold the role of Treasurer on the board, though Jimbo hasn't spoken to him about this yet. We will likely be paying an accountant to do the audit at the end of the financial year.
Angela.
On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 12:22:42 -0700 (PDT), Daniel Mayer maveric149@yahoo.com wrote:
--- Delirium delirium@hackish.org wrote:
... I think even if we did this, we'd still keep the books ourselves, and just submit them once per year to an outside auditor for a stamp of approval. I have no idea how much paying such a person would cost.
Jimbo has indicated to me that this is the plan. I'm not sure how much the yearly audit would cost though.
--mav
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