Tool to help reaching community consensus

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mathieu stumpf guntz

7 Dec 2017 7 Dec '17

8:51 p.m.

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Philippe Beaudette

7 Dec 7 Dec

9:17 p.m.

Other than mediawiki, with some extensions? I'm not trying to be snarky, but there's not a ton on that page that can't be done with mediawiki. :-) On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 4:51 AM, mathieu stumpf guntz < psychoslave(a)culture-libre.org> wrote:

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Saluton ĉiuj, Despite the fact that reaching community consensus is an easy task, I'm nonetheless wasting time at looking for tools which might help achieve that. I just red /4 simplaj ideoj por direkti vian komunumon al interkonsento/ <https://lasindias.blog/4-simplaj-ideoj-por-direkti-vian- komunumon-al-interkonsento#comments> (4 simple ideas to drive your community toward consensus, I'm not aware of an available translation) written by David de Ugarte <https://lasindias.blog/indian opedia/david-de-ugarte> (in Spanish), which point to Loomio < https://www.loomio.org/> as a possible tool for just that. Loomio offers free use for community cases. But it's non-free software, as far as I can see, but I didn't made deep inquiry. So I wondered if anyone was aware of a free software equivalent. Ĝis baldaŭ _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

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Chico Venancio

11:38 p.m.

Loomio is free software as well, I guess you could host your own instance if you find their interface preferable, though I don't think we could (or should) achieve consensus to move decisions offwiki. Chico Venancio Em 7 de dez de 2017 10:17, "Philippe Beaudette" <philippe(a)beaudette.me> escreveu: Other than mediawiki, with some extensions? I'm not trying to be snarky, but there's not a ton on that page that can't be done with mediawiki. :-) On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 4:51 AM, mathieu stumpf guntz < psychoslave(a)culture-libre.org> wrote:

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-- Philippe Beaudette philippe(a)beaudette.me 415-275-1424 415-889-9614 _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

mathieu stumpf guntz

8 Dec 8 Dec

12:29 a.m.

Le 07/12/2017 à 14:17, Philippe Beaudette a écrit :

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Other than mediawiki, with some extensions? I'm not trying to be snarky, but there's not a ton on that page that can't be done with mediawiki. :-)

:) But, do you have specific extensions in mind? I didn't test loomio actually, but it is clear that we might have benefited from more apropriate tools for the wikimedia strategy consultation for example. Having a person which have to sum up everything in tables might not be the more effective way to make important information and decisional cornerstone emerge. Even launching a "word cloud" wasn't done, as far as I know.

Kunal Mehta

12:55 a.m.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Hi, On 12/07/2017 04:51 AM, mathieu stumpf guntz wrote:

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Loomio offers free use for community cases. But it's non-free software, as far as I can see, but I didn't made deep inquiry. So I wondered if anyone was aware of a free software equivalent.

Loomio is free software, it's licensed under the GNU Affero General Public License[1][2]. [1] https://github.com/loomio/loomio/blob/master/LICENSE.txt [2] https://www.gnu.org/licenses/why-affero-gpl.html - -- Legoktm

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Denny Vrandečić

1:12 a.m.

Mathieu, you wrote

...

Despite the fact that reaching community consensus is an easy task,

I just wanted to check whether that was a typo, irony, or actually meant that way. In the latter case, I would like to ask for {{cn}}. Reaching and establishing community consensus seems to me one of the hardest tasks we are facing, which is why this sentence astonished me, and made me think whether I missed something fundamental. Cheers, Denny On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 8:56 AM Kunal Mehta <legoktm(a)member.fsf.org> wrote:

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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Hi, On 12/07/2017 04:51 AM, mathieu stumpf guntz wrote:

Loomio offers free use for community cases. But it's non-free software, as far as I can see, but I didn't made deep inquiry. So I wondered if anyone was aware of a free software equivalent.

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James Heilman

2:38 a.m.

Am with Denny on this. We are currently discussing what "consensus" means and how to achieve it on EN WP. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#What_percenta… ? James On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 10:12 AM, Denny Vrandečić <vrandecic(a)gmail.com> wrote:

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Mathieu, you wrote

Despite the fact that reaching community consensus is an easy task,

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Hi, On 12/07/2017 04:51 AM, mathieu stumpf guntz wrote:

Loomio offers free use for community cases. But it's non-free software, as far as I can see, but I didn't made deep inquiry. So I wondered if anyone was aware of a free software equivalent.

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mathieu stumpf guntz

6:46 p.m.

Thank you James for the link. The section is now archived in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#What_percenta… Le 07/12/2017 à 19:38, James Heilman a écrit :

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Mathieu, you wrote

Despite the fact that reaching community consensus is an easy task,

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Hi, On 12/07/2017 04:51 AM, mathieu stumpf guntz wrote:

Loomio offers free use for community cases. But it's non-free software, as far as I can see, but I didn't made deep inquiry. So I wondered if anyone was aware of a free software equivalent.

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Alex Power

4:28 a.m.

Consensus is easy to obtain when trying to solve easy problems, and hard to obtain when trying to solve hard problems. I doubt that this tool will change that. On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 11:12 AM, Denny Vrandečić <vrandecic(a)gmail.com> wrote:

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Mathieu, you wrote

Despite the fact that reaching community consensus is an easy task,

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Hi, On 12/07/2017 04:51 AM, mathieu stumpf guntz wrote:

Loomio offers free use for community cases. But it's non-free software, as far as I can see, but I didn't made deep inquiry. So I wondered if anyone was aware of a free software equivalent.

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mathieu stumpf guntz

6:39 p.m.

Le 07/12/2017 à 18:12, Denny Vrandečić a écrit :

...

Mathieu, you wrote

Despite the fact that reaching community consensus is an easy task,

I just wanted to check whether that was a typo, irony, or actually meant that way. In the latter case, I would like to ask for {{cn}}.

Sorry, some emoticon was missing here to make things more clear. It's plain irony here.

...

Reaching and establishing community consensus seems to me one of the hardest tasks we are facing, which is why this sentence astonished me, and made me think whether I missed something fundamental.

I completely agree with you that this is among the most hardest tasks. More broadly, to my mind, communication and empathy are among the less well developed topic in education relatively to their prominent importance in all domain where humans have to pay attention. Kind regards

Denny Vrandečić

9 Dec 9 Dec

12:03 a.m.

Ah, thanks for the clarification. Sorry for having missed the irony. Cheers, Denny On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 2:39 AM mathieu stumpf guntz < psychoslave(a)culture-libre.org> wrote:

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Le 07/12/2017 à 18:12, Denny Vrandečić a écrit : Mathieu, you wrote Despite the fact that reaching community consensus is an easy task, I just wanted to check whether that was a typo, irony, or actually meant that way. In the latter case, I would like to ask for {{cn}}. Sorry, some emoticon was missing here to make things more clear. It's plain irony here. Reaching and establishing community consensus seems to me one of the hardest tasks we are facing, which is why this sentence astonished me, and made me think whether I missed something fundamental. I completely agree with you that this is among the most hardest tasks. More broadly, to my mind, communication and empathy are among the less well developed topic in education relatively to their prominent importance in all domain where humans have to pay attention. Kind regards

Gergo Tisza

10 Dec 10 Dec

11:16 a.m.

On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 4:51 AM, mathieu stumpf guntz < psychoslave(a)culture-libre.org> wrote:

...

Loomio offers free use for community cases. But it's non-free software, as far as I can see, but I didn't made deep inquiry. So I wondered if anyone was aware of a free software equivalent.

The WMF has used Loomio internally in the past for bottom-up generation and vetting of proposals. Personally I found it unimpressive - it's basically a forum software with flat threads and voting, and some UI choices to make the voting part stand out more. I don't think it has any advantage over the average wiki RfC, apart from not having to know how to edit wikitext.

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participants (8)

Alex Power
Chico Venancio
Denny Vrandečić
Gergo Tisza
James Heilman
Kunal Mehta
mathieu stumpf guntz
Philippe Beaudette