Saluton ĉiuj,
Despite the fact that reaching community consensus is an easy task, I'm nonetheless wasting time at looking for tools which might help achieve that. I just red /4 simplaj ideoj por direkti vian komunumon al interkonsento/ https://lasindias.blog/4-simplaj-ideoj-por-direkti-vian-komunumon-al-interkonsento#comments (4 simple ideas to drive your community toward consensus, I'm not aware of an available translation) written by David de Ugarte https://lasindias.blog/indianopedia/david-de-ugarte (in Spanish), which point to Loomio https://www.loomio.org/ as a possible tool for just that.
Loomio offers free use for community cases. But it's non-free software, as far as I can see, but I didn't made deep inquiry. So I wondered if anyone was aware of a free software equivalent.
Ĝis baldaŭ
Other than mediawiki, with some extensions? I'm not trying to be snarky, but there's not a ton on that page that can't be done with mediawiki. :-)
On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 4:51 AM, mathieu stumpf guntz < psychoslave@culture-libre.org> wrote:
Saluton ĉiuj,
Despite the fact that reaching community consensus is an easy task, I'm nonetheless wasting time at looking for tools which might help achieve that. I just red /4 simplaj ideoj por direkti vian komunumon al interkonsento/ https://lasindias.blog/4-simplaj-ideoj-por-direkti-vian- komunumon-al-interkonsento#comments (4 simple ideas to drive your community toward consensus, I'm not aware of an available translation) written by David de Ugarte https://lasindias.blog/indian opedia/david-de-ugarte (in Spanish), which point to Loomio < https://www.loomio.org/%3E as a possible tool for just that.
Loomio offers free use for community cases. But it's non-free software, as far as I can see, but I didn't made deep inquiry. So I wondered if anyone was aware of a free software equivalent.
Ĝis baldaŭ
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Loomio is free software as well, I guess you could host your own instance if you find their interface preferable, though I don't think we could (or should) achieve consensus to move decisions offwiki.
Chico Venancio
Em 7 de dez de 2017 10:17, "Philippe Beaudette" philippe@beaudette.me escreveu:
Other than mediawiki, with some extensions? I'm not trying to be snarky, but there's not a ton on that page that can't be done with mediawiki. :-)
On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 4:51 AM, mathieu stumpf guntz < psychoslave@culture-libre.org> wrote:
Saluton ĉiuj,
Despite the fact that reaching community consensus is an easy task, I'm nonetheless wasting time at looking for tools which might help achieve that. I just red /4 simplaj ideoj por direkti vian komunumon al interkonsento/ https://lasindias.blog/4-simplaj-ideoj-por-direkti-vian- komunumon-al-interkonsento#comments (4 simple ideas to drive your community toward consensus, I'm not aware of an available translation) written by David de Ugarte https://lasindias.blog/indian opedia/david-de-ugarte (in Spanish), which point to Loomio < https://www.loomio.org/%3E as a possible tool for just that.
Loomio offers free use for community cases. But it's non-free software, as far as I can see, but I didn't made deep inquiry. So I wondered if anyone was aware of a free software equivalent.
Ĝis baldaŭ
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Philippe Beaudette
philippe@beaudette.me 415-275-1424 415-889-9614 _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Le 07/12/2017 à 14:17, Philippe Beaudette a écrit :
Other than mediawiki, with some extensions? I'm not trying to be snarky, but there's not a ton on that page that can't be done with mediawiki. :-)
:)
But, do you have specific extensions in mind? I didn't test loomio actually, but it is clear that we might have benefited from more apropriate tools for the wikimedia strategy consultation for example. Having a person which have to sum up everything in tables might not be the more effective way to make important information and decisional cornerstone emerge. Even launching a "word cloud" wasn't done, as far as I know.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512
Hi,
On 12/07/2017 04:51 AM, mathieu stumpf guntz wrote:
Loomio offers free use for community cases. But it's non-free software, as far as I can see, but I didn't made deep inquiry. So I wondered if anyone was aware of a free software equivalent.
Loomio is free software, it's licensed under the GNU Affero General Public License[1][2].
[1] https://github.com/loomio/loomio/blob/master/LICENSE.txt [2] https://www.gnu.org/licenses/why-affero-gpl.html
- -- Legoktm
Mathieu,
you wrote
Despite the fact that reaching community consensus is an easy task,
I just wanted to check whether that was a typo, irony, or actually meant that way. In the latter case, I would like to ask for {{cn}}.
Reaching and establishing community consensus seems to me one of the hardest tasks we are facing, which is why this sentence astonished me, and made me think whether I missed something fundamental.
Cheers, Denny
On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 8:56 AM Kunal Mehta legoktm@member.fsf.org wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512
Hi,
On 12/07/2017 04:51 AM, mathieu stumpf guntz wrote:
Loomio offers free use for community cases. But it's non-free software, as far as I can see, but I didn't made deep inquiry. So I wondered if anyone was aware of a free software equivalent.
Loomio is free software, it's licensed under the GNU Affero General Public License[1][2].
[1] https://github.com/loomio/loomio/blob/master/LICENSE.txt [2] https://www.gnu.org/licenses/why-affero-gpl.html
- -- Legoktm
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Am with Denny on this. We are currently discussing what "consensus" means and how to achieve it on EN WP.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#What_percentag... ?
James
On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 10:12 AM, Denny Vrandečić vrandecic@gmail.com wrote:
Mathieu,
you wrote
Despite the fact that reaching community consensus is an easy task,
I just wanted to check whether that was a typo, irony, or actually meant that way. In the latter case, I would like to ask for {{cn}}.
Reaching and establishing community consensus seems to me one of the hardest tasks we are facing, which is why this sentence astonished me, and made me think whether I missed something fundamental.
Cheers, Denny
On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 8:56 AM Kunal Mehta legoktm@member.fsf.org wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512
Hi,
On 12/07/2017 04:51 AM, mathieu stumpf guntz wrote:
Loomio offers free use for community cases. But it's non-free software, as far as I can see, but I didn't made deep inquiry. So I wondered if anyone was aware of a free software equivalent.
Loomio is free software, it's licensed under the GNU Affero General Public License[1][2].
[1] https://github.com/loomio/loomio/blob/master/LICENSE.txt [2] https://www.gnu.org/licenses/why-affero-gpl.html
- -- Legoktm
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Thank you James for the link. The section is now archived in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#What_percentag...
Le 07/12/2017 à 19:38, James Heilman a écrit :
Am with Denny on this. We are currently discussing what "consensus" means and how to achieve it on EN WP.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#What_percentag... ?
James
On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 10:12 AM, Denny Vrandečić vrandecic@gmail.com wrote:
Mathieu,
you wrote
Despite the fact that reaching community consensus is an easy task,
I just wanted to check whether that was a typo, irony, or actually meant that way. In the latter case, I would like to ask for {{cn}}.
Reaching and establishing community consensus seems to me one of the hardest tasks we are facing, which is why this sentence astonished me, and made me think whether I missed something fundamental.
Cheers, Denny
On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 8:56 AM Kunal Mehta legoktm@member.fsf.org wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512
Hi,
On 12/07/2017 04:51 AM, mathieu stumpf guntz wrote:
Loomio offers free use for community cases. But it's non-free software, as far as I can see, but I didn't made deep inquiry. So I wondered if anyone was aware of a free software equivalent.
Loomio is free software, it's licensed under the GNU Affero General Public License[1][2].
[1] https://github.com/loomio/loomio/blob/master/LICENSE.txt [2] https://www.gnu.org/licenses/why-affero-gpl.html
- -- Legoktm
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Consensus is easy to obtain when trying to solve easy problems, and hard to obtain when trying to solve hard problems. I doubt that this tool will change that.
On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 11:12 AM, Denny Vrandečić vrandecic@gmail.com wrote:
Mathieu,
you wrote
Despite the fact that reaching community consensus is an easy task,
I just wanted to check whether that was a typo, irony, or actually meant that way. In the latter case, I would like to ask for {{cn}}.
Reaching and establishing community consensus seems to me one of the hardest tasks we are facing, which is why this sentence astonished me, and made me think whether I missed something fundamental.
Cheers, Denny
On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 8:56 AM Kunal Mehta legoktm@member.fsf.org wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512
Hi,
On 12/07/2017 04:51 AM, mathieu stumpf guntz wrote:
Loomio offers free use for community cases. But it's non-free software, as far as I can see, but I didn't made deep inquiry. So I wondered if anyone was aware of a free software equivalent.
Loomio is free software, it's licensed under the GNU Affero General Public License[1][2].
[1] https://github.com/loomio/loomio/blob/master/LICENSE.txt [2] https://www.gnu.org/licenses/why-affero-gpl.html
- -- Legoktm
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Le 07/12/2017 à 18:12, Denny Vrandečić a écrit :
Mathieu,
you wrote
Despite the fact that reaching community consensus is an easy task,
I just wanted to check whether that was a typo, irony, or actually meant that way. In the latter case, I would like to ask for {{cn}}.
Sorry, some emoticon was missing here to make things more clear. It's plain irony here.
Reaching and establishing community consensus seems to me one of the hardest tasks we are facing, which is why this sentence astonished me, and made me think whether I missed something fundamental.
I completely agree with you that this is among the most hardest tasks. More broadly, to my mind, communication and empathy are among the less well developed topic in education relatively to their prominent importance in all domain where humans have to pay attention.
Kind regards
Ah, thanks for the clarification. Sorry for having missed the irony.
Cheers, Denny
On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 2:39 AM mathieu stumpf guntz < psychoslave@culture-libre.org> wrote:
Le 07/12/2017 à 18:12, Denny Vrandečić a écrit :
Mathieu,
you wrote
Despite the fact that reaching community consensus is an easy task,
I just wanted to check whether that was a typo, irony, or actually meant that way. In the latter case, I would like to ask for {{cn}}.
Sorry, some emoticon was missing here to make things more clear. It's plain irony here.
Reaching and establishing community consensus seems to me one of the hardest tasks we are facing, which is why this sentence astonished me, and made me think whether I missed something fundamental.
I completely agree with you that this is among the most hardest tasks. More broadly, to my mind, communication and empathy are among the less well developed topic in education relatively to their prominent importance in all domain where humans have to pay attention.
Kind regards
On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 4:51 AM, mathieu stumpf guntz < psychoslave@culture-libre.org> wrote:
Loomio offers free use for community cases. But it's non-free software, as far as I can see, but I didn't made deep inquiry. So I wondered if anyone was aware of a free software equivalent.
The WMF has used Loomio internally in the past for bottom-up generation and vetting of proposals. Personally I found it unimpressive - it's basically a forum software with flat threads and voting, and some UI choices to make the voting part stand out more. I don't think it has any advantage over the average wiki RfC, apart from not having to know how to edit wikitext.
wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org