Hi everyone,
Per a great suggestion from Jan-Bart, I have created a public Google Calendar that anyone can subscribe to for IRC office hours: https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=IRC_office_hours&diff=37145...
If this isn't working for anyone, let me know offlist.
Thanks!
You cannot be serious. A google calendar for this? Fail. Completely.
Please let us know when there is an open source, freely licensed, community edited calendar available. Y'know, a solution that follows Wikimedia's main principles?
Mike
On 5 May 2012, at 00:30, Steven Walling swalling@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi everyone,
Per a great suggestion from Jan-Bart, I have created a public Google Calendar that anyone can subscribe to for IRC office hours: https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=IRC_office_hours&diff=37145...
If this isn't working for anyone, let me know offlist.
Thanks!
-- Steven Walling https://wikimediafoundation.org/ _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Come on, Michael, do you know a better solution? If there's no open source solution, Google Calender is the easiest way to fulfill the needs.
Cornelius
On 5 May 2012 02:09, Michael Peel michael.peel@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
You cannot be serious. A google calendar for this? Fail. Completely.
Please let us know when there is an open source, freely licensed, community edited calendar available. Y'know, a solution that follows Wikimedia's main principles?
Mike
On 5 May 2012, at 00:30, Steven Walling swalling@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi everyone,
Per a great suggestion from Jan-Bart, I have created a public Google Calendar that anyone can subscribe to for IRC office hours:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=IRC_office_hours&diff=37145...
If this isn't working for anyone, let me know offlist.
Thanks!
-- Steven Walling https://wikimediafoundation.org/ _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
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On 5 May 2012 01:26, Jaan-Cornelius Kibelka jckibelka@gmail.com wrote:
Come on, Michael, do you know a better solution? If there's no open source solution, Google Calender is the easiest way to fulfill the needs.
Cornelius
What he said. Find me an open source equivalent that is as easy to use and I'm happy to advocate for us using it until the cows come home. We adopt open source software when possible, and proprietary software where there is no open source alternative that does the job as well - interestingly, also a principle that WMUK has played around with in the past. We *already* host it in an open source, freely licensed, collaborative format. It's called MediaWiki.
Open source calendar software is trivially available. Or there's wikis and microformats. Or even hand-crafted calendar files. Google calendars may be a popular solution, but they're a recent one and are hardly the only solution out there. And they're definitely not a mission-aligned solution.
Mike
On 5 May 2012, at 01:26, Jaan-Cornelius Kibelka jckibelka@gmail.com wrote:
Come on, Michael, do you know a better solution? If there's no open source solution, Google Calender is the easiest way to fulfill the needs.
Cornelius
On 5 May 2012 02:09, Michael Peel michael.peel@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
You cannot be serious. A google calendar for this? Fail. Completely.
Please let us know when there is an open source, freely licensed, community edited calendar available. Y'know, a solution that follows Wikimedia's main principles?
Mike
On 5 May 2012, at 00:30, Steven Walling swalling@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi everyone,
Per a great suggestion from Jan-Bart, I have created a public Google Calendar that anyone can subscribe to for IRC office hours:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=IRC_office_hours&diff=37145...
If this isn't working for anyone, let me know offlist.
Thanks!
-- Steven Walling https://wikimediafoundation.org/ _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
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On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 5:42 PM, Michael Peel michael.peel@wikimedia.org.ukwrote:
Open source calendar software is trivially available. Or there's wikis and microformats. Or even hand-crafted calendar files. Google calendars may be a popular solution, but they're a recent one and are hardly the only solution out there. And they're definitely not a mission-aligned solution.
Mike
Hey Mike,
I'm confused, as Oliver and I pointed out this is already on the wiki https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours#Upcoming_office_hours ?
In my opinion the main goal of the mission is getting information and education out to everyone as much as we can. This seems completely in line with that mission having it both on the wiki (completely open source, editable etc) and on another, heavily used and requested, location. Refusing to put it on google calendar solely because it's closed source would, in my mind, by nuts.
James
On 5 May 2012, at 01:26, Jaan-Cornelius Kibelka jckibelka@gmail.com wrote:
Come on, Michael, do you know a better solution? If there's no open
source
solution, Google Calender is the easiest way to fulfill the needs.
Cornelius
On 5 May 2012 02:09, Michael Peel michael.peel@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
You cannot be serious. A google calendar for this? Fail. Completely.
Please let us know when there is an open source, freely licensed, community edited calendar available. Y'know, a solution that follows Wikimedia's main principles?
Mike
On 5 May 2012, at 00:30, Steven Walling swalling@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi everyone,
Per a great suggestion from Jan-Bart, I have created a public Google Calendar that anyone can subscribe to for IRC office hours:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=IRC_office_hours&diff=37145...
If this isn't working for anyone, let me know offlist.
Thanks!
-- Steven Walling https://wikimediafoundation.org/ _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
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On 5 May 2012 01:49, James Alexander jamesofur@gmail.com wrote:
Hey Mike,
I'm confused, as Oliver and I pointed out this is already on the wiki https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours#Upcoming_office_hours ?
In my opinion the main goal of the mission is getting information and education out to everyone as much as we can. This seems completely in line with that mission having it both on the wiki (completely open source, editable etc) and on another, heavily used and requested, location. Refusing to put it on google calendar solely because it's closed source would, in my mind, by nuts.
James
I agree with James and Oliver - this is not a replacement of the existing office hours that are timetabled on Meta-Wiki, instead just a duplication of them in a format that will be easier for people to add to their mobile devices (phones, tablets) and for people that use Google Calendars for personal use, they will be able to see the IRC office hours with their normal calendar so as to raise awareness and increase community participation in them.
Thehelpfulone
And, as said, they are listed on a wiki and will continue being listed on a wiki. We're augmenting open solutions with non-open solutions, not replacing them.
On 5 May 2012 01:42, Michael Peel michael.peel@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
Open source calendar software is trivially available. Or there's wikis and microformats. Or even hand-crafted calendar files. Google calendars may be a popular solution, but they're a recent one and are hardly the only solution out there. And they're definitely not a mission-aligned solution.
Mike
On 5 May 2012, at 01:26, Jaan-Cornelius Kibelka jckibelka@gmail.com wrote:
Come on, Michael, do you know a better solution? If there's no open
source
solution, Google Calender is the easiest way to fulfill the needs.
Cornelius
On 5 May 2012 02:09, Michael Peel michael.peel@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
You cannot be serious. A google calendar for this? Fail. Completely.
Please let us know when there is an open source, freely licensed, community edited calendar available. Y'know, a solution that follows Wikimedia's main principles?
Mike
On 5 May 2012, at 00:30, Steven Walling swalling@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi everyone,
Per a great suggestion from Jan-Bart, I have created a public Google Calendar that anyone can subscribe to for IRC office hours:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=IRC_office_hours&diff=37145...
If this isn't working for anyone, let me know offlist.
Thanks!
-- Steven Walling https://wikimediafoundation.org/ _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
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I'm seriously having a hard time believing this. It's a trivial calendar. There are so many open solutions available. See, for example, just looking at mediawiki-integrated calendar solutions: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Calendar
I constructed a calendar system, relying just on PHP functions, a decade ago (albeit integrated with phpbb rather than mediawiki). It's not a big problem to solve in an open source manner.
There is, simply, *no* excuse for using a closed source piece of software to do this for Wikimedia purposes.
The mind boggles at this situation...
Mike
On 5 May 2012, at 01:49, Oliver Keyes wrote:
And, as said, they are listed on a wiki and will continue being listed on a wiki. We're augmenting open solutions with non-open solutions, not replacing them.
On 5 May 2012 01:42, Michael Peel michael.peel@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
Open source calendar software is trivially available. Or there's wikis and microformats. Or even hand-crafted calendar files. Google calendars may be a popular solution, but they're a recent one and are hardly the only solution out there. And they're definitely not a mission-aligned solution.
Mike
On 5 May 2012, at 01:26, Jaan-Cornelius Kibelka jckibelka@gmail.com wrote:
Come on, Michael, do you know a better solution? If there's no open
source
solution, Google Calender is the easiest way to fulfill the needs.
Cornelius
On 5 May 2012 02:09, Michael Peel michael.peel@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
You cannot be serious. A google calendar for this? Fail. Completely.
Please let us know when there is an open source, freely licensed, community edited calendar available. Y'know, a solution that follows Wikimedia's main principles?
Mike
On 5 May 2012, at 00:30, Steven Walling swalling@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi everyone,
Per a great suggestion from Jan-Bart, I have created a public Google Calendar that anyone can subscribe to for IRC office hours:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=IRC_office_hours&diff=37145...
If this isn't working for anyone, let me know offlist.
Thanks!
-- Steven Walling https://wikimediafoundation.org/ _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
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-- Oliver Keyes Community Liaison, Product Development Wikimedia Foundation _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Michael Peel wrote:
I'm seriously having a hard time believing this. It's a trivial calendar. There are so many open solutions available. See, for example, just looking at mediawiki-integrated calendar solutions: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Calendar
I constructed a calendar system, relying just on PHP functions, a decade ago (albeit integrated with phpbb rather than mediawiki). It's not a big problem to solve in an open source manner.
There is, simply, *no* excuse for using a closed source piece of software to do this for Wikimedia purposes.
The mind boggles at this situation...
Yes, you're right. But perfect is the enemy of the done here. In certain cases, using a technology is an absolute no-go (for example, leaking visitor information via iframes). In this case, I don't think we're dealing with anything of that nature (though please clarify if I'm missing something).
You should file a bug in Bugzilla about fixing this system up in the future: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/. It's definitely not ideal, but it's good enough for now, I think.
In addition to the proprietary/free issue, duplicating content is awful from a maintenance perspective. As far as I know, there's no automatic sync in place, so the wiki and Google are inevitably going to fall out of sync. There are other reasons to keep the information centralized, but until the wiki can support XML and iCal output, the benefit of using Google outweighs the cost.
MZMcBride
Hi all,
I've incorporated the hcalendar microformat into the office hours template, and http://h2vx.com/ics/ provides an open source solution (based on http://microformats.org/wiki/x2v) for converting hcalendar microformats into iCal files.
You can download the ical from: http://h2vx.com/ics/https%3A//meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours or subscribe to it at: webcal://h2vx.com/ics/https%3A//meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours
All open source, no duplication of data or increased maintenance costs. The only downside is that the template call is a bit more complex now, particularly because an end time needed to be specified.
Please let me know if anyone encounters any problems with this solution...
Thanks, Mike
I cannot subscribe in Google Calendar because it says robots.txt does not allow crawling.
Don
On Sat, May 5, 2012 at 2:59 PM, Michael Peel michael.peel@wikimedia.org.ukwrote:
Hi all,
I've incorporated the hcalendar microformat into the office hours template, and http://h2vx.com/ics/ provides an open source solution (based on http://microformats.org/wiki/x2v) for converting hcalendar microformats into iCal files.
You can download the ical from: http://h2vx.com/ics/https%3A//meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours or subscribe to it at: webcal://h2vx.com/ics/https%3A//meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours
All open source, no duplication of data or increased maintenance costs. The only downside is that the template call is a bit more complex now, particularly because an end time needed to be specified.
Please let me know if anyone encounters any problems with this solution...
Thanks, Mike
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Ah, fun. I see this is a known problem that Tom Morris pointed out last year: http://microformats.org/wiki/h2vx#robots.txt_prevents_subscription_in_Google...
Quite why Google Calendar is misusing robots.txt like this, I don't know... (it's natural to use robots.txt to keep pages from appearing in the google search index, but that shouldn't then also apply in this sort of situation.)
I'll see if I can figure out a work-around for subscribing to the calendar, but it'll take me a day or so. In the meantime, you can always download the calendar file and import it into Google Calendar...
Thanks, Mike
On 5 May 2012, at 20:38, Don Burke wrote:
I cannot subscribe in Google Calendar because it says robots.txt does not allow crawling.
Don
On Sat, May 5, 2012 at 2:59 PM, Michael Peel michael.peel@wikimedia.org.ukwrote:
Hi all,
I've incorporated the hcalendar microformat into the office hours template, and http://h2vx.com/ics/ provides an open source solution (based on http://microformats.org/wiki/x2v) for converting hcalendar microformats into iCal files.
You can download the ical from: http://h2vx.com/ics/https%3A//meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours or subscribe to it at: webcal://h2vx.com/ics/https%3A//meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours
All open source, no duplication of data or increased maintenance costs. The only downside is that the template call is a bit more complex now, particularly because an end time needed to be specified.
Please let me know if anyone encounters any problems with this solution...
Thanks, Mike
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I think it is reasonable that Google chooses to not allow ical files that arnt able to be fetched by robots and cached.
why exclude public shared calendars using robots.txt?
can we host our own instance of the converter?
On Sun, May 6, 2012 at 6:31 AM, Michael Peel michael.peel@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
Ah, fun. I see this is a known problem that Tom Morris pointed out last year: http://microformats.org/wiki/h2vx#robots.txt_prevents_subscription_in_Google...
Quite why Google Calendar is misusing robots.txt like this, I don't know... (it's natural to use robots.txt to keep pages from appearing in the google search index, but that shouldn't then also apply in this sort of situation.)
I'll see if I can figure out a work-around for subscribing to the calendar, but it'll take me a day or so. In the meantime, you can always download the calendar file and import it into Google Calendar...
Thanks, Mike
On 5 May 2012, at 20:38, Don Burke wrote:
I cannot subscribe in Google Calendar because it says robots.txt does not allow crawling.
Don
On Sat, May 5, 2012 at 2:59 PM, Michael Peel michael.peel@wikimedia.org.ukwrote:
Hi all,
I've incorporated the hcalendar microformat into the office hours template, and http://h2vx.com/ics/ provides an open source solution (based on http://microformats.org/wiki/x2v) for converting hcalendar microformats into iCal files.
You can download the ical from: http://h2vx.com/ics/https%3A//meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours or subscribe to it at: webcal://h2vx.com/ics/https%3A//meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours
All open source, no duplication of data or increased maintenance costs. The only downside is that the template call is a bit more complex now, particularly because an end time needed to be specified.
Please let me know if anyone encounters any problems with this solution...
Thanks, Mike
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On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 6:36 PM, MZMcBride z@mzmcbride.com wrote:
In addition to the proprietary/free issue, duplicating content is awful from a maintenance perspective. As far as I know, there's no automatic sync in place, so the wiki and Google are inevitably going to fall out of sync. There are other reasons to keep the information centralized, but until the wiki can support XML and iCal output, the benefit of using Google outweighs the cost.
Just to address this: the people duplicating the content are folks like myself, Oliver, Philippe and Lydia who have to schedule office hours and make sure they get into someone's calendar anyway. Using a shared calendar (rather than putting them in the attendee's individual calendar alone) is actually much more efficient on our end.
Thanks,
Steven
Steven,
Steven,
I've added your public Google calendar. Thank you for making it public since you are clearly maintaining it anyway. If the open source version can be fixed then all the better but I appreciate having this option.
Don
On Sun, May 6, 2012 at 2:01 PM, Steven Walling steven.walling@gmail.comwrote:
On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 6:36 PM, MZMcBride z@mzmcbride.com wrote:
In addition to the proprietary/free issue, duplicating content is awful from a maintenance perspective. As far as I know, there's no automatic sync in place, so the wiki and Google are inevitably going to fall out of sync. There are other reasons to keep the information centralized, but until
the
wiki can support XML and iCal output, the benefit of using Google
outweighs
the cost.
Just to address this: the people duplicating the content are folks like myself, Oliver, Philippe and Lydia who have to schedule office hours and make sure they get into someone's calendar anyway. Using a shared calendar (rather than putting them in the attendee's individual calendar alone) is actually much more efficient on our end.
Thanks,
Steven _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Can this calendar be added to the "Other Resources" room list in the WMF Google calendar? After all, it ought to be treated just like any other conference room for meeting scheduling purposes.
Thanks, Rob
-----Original Message----- From: Don Burke Sent: Sunday, 06 May 2012 1:15 PM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Public Google Calendar for IRC office hours
Steven,
Steven,
I've added your public Google calendar. Thank you for making it public since you are clearly maintaining it anyway. If the open source version can be fixed then all the better but I appreciate having this option.
Don
On Sun, May 6, 2012 at 2:01 PM, Steven Walling steven.walling@gmail.comwrote:
On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 6:36 PM, MZMcBride z@mzmcbride.com wrote:
In addition to the proprietary/free issue, duplicating content is awful from a maintenance perspective. As far as I know, there's no automatic sync in place, so the wiki and Google are inevitably going to fall out of sync. There are other reasons to keep the information centralized, but until
the
wiki can support XML and iCal output, the benefit of using Google
outweighs
the cost.
Just to address this: the people duplicating the content are folks like myself, Oliver, Philippe and Lydia who have to schedule office hours and make sure they get into someone's calendar anyway. Using a shared calendar (rather than putting them in the attendee's individual calendar alone) is actually much more efficient on our end.
Thanks,
Steven _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
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Thanks for the calendar, I am grateful for it.
I think am having trouble using it. I use Google Calendar anyway and have added public calendars before but I forget how I did it.
I went to the wiki page and clicked on the link. This downloaded a file to my computer. I then used the 'import calendar' option in Google Calendar and pointed to the downloaded file and this has successfully added 6 events to my calendar.
But I'm not sure this will update when new things are added at the Foundation end. Will it? I just have an idea that when I added calendars previously it was by adding a link rather than via a file on my computer.
Yours,
Confused (Bodnotbod)
On 8 May 2012 11:50, Bod Notbod bodnotbod@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks for the calendar, I am grateful for it.
I think am having trouble using it. I use Google Calendar anyway and have added public calendars before but I forget how I did it.
I went to the wiki page and clicked on the link. This downloaded a file to my computer. I then used the 'import calendar' option in Google Calendar and pointed to the downloaded file and this has successfully added 6 events to my calendar.
But I'm not sure this will update when new things are added at the Foundation end. Will it? I just have an idea that when I added calendars previously it was by adding a link rather than via a file on my computer.
Yes, you have taken the iCal file rather than the feed.
In Google Calendar, you need to Settings -> Calendars -> Browse interesting Calendars -> Add by URL
At that point, paste in the XML feed URL:
http://www.google.com/calendar/feeds/wikimedia.org_1co89h9c5s99d0jt9ld1tlsol...
Then you're done. :-)
I imagine Mike's solution's URL might work too if you have philosophical issues about other people using proprietary software:
webcal://h2vx.com/ics/https%3A//meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours
Yours,
On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 5:42 PM, Michael Peel michael.peel@wikimedia.org.ukwrote:
Open source calendar software is trivially available. Or there's wikis and microformats. Or even hand-crafted calendar files. Google calendars may be a popular solution, but they're a recent one and are hardly the only solution out there. And they're definitely not a mission-aligned solution.
Mike
If anyone would like to markup the wiki page with hcal microformats that would be great. If you would like to file a bug request for an installation of your preferred open source calendar software, then that would be even better. My personal favorite is the very wiki-like software that powers calagator.org, though it's Ruby and unlikely to be something our developer community can support.
In the meantime, this is simply an addition to the FOSS platform already being used as the central repository of info about office hours, as others have pointed out.
Thanks,
Steven
It's already on one, the wiki itself ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours#Upcoming_office_hours ) , but this is another option that people requested. I don't see that as bad at all, to the contrary it should be applauded.
James
On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 5:09 PM, Michael Peel michael.peel@wikimedia.org.ukwrote:
You cannot be serious. A google calendar for this? Fail. Completely.
Please let us know when there is an open source, freely licensed, community edited calendar available. Y'know, a solution that follows Wikimedia's main principles?
Mike
On 5 May 2012, at 00:30, Steven Walling swalling@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi everyone,
Per a great suggestion from Jan-Bart, I have created a public Google Calendar that anyone can subscribe to for IRC office hours:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=IRC_office_hours&diff=37145...
If this isn't working for anyone, let me know offlist.
Thanks!
-- Steven Walling https://wikimediafoundation.org/ _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
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+1, very efficient. I suggest this name of the callendar - "WMF IRC".
Dimce Grozdanoski Wikimedia Macedonia
On 05.05.2012 01:30, Steven Walling wrote:
Hi everyone,
Per a great suggestion from Jan-Bart, I have created a public Google Calendar that anyone can subscribe to for IRC office hours: https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=IRC_office_hours&diff=37145...
If this isn't working for anyone, let me know offlist.
Thanks!
wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org