I assume many have muted or are ignoring the "thankspam" thread, but it has changed topic rather meaningfully, and I think it deserves broader attention.
A.
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Luis Villa lvilla@wikimedia.org Date: Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 8:31 AM Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Better thankspam To: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 7:58 AM, Andy Mabbett andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote:
On 15 January 2016 at 15:50, Guillaume Paumier guillaume.paumier@gmail.com wrote:
moving Wikimedia mailing lists to Discourse
What problem is this intended to solve?
Very short answer is "that mailing lists are an awful user experience for most people". Longer, but still very partial, list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Discourse#What_we.27d_gain_.28user_experienc...
I'll add more there at some point, but probably not today.
Luis
-- Luis Villa Sr. Director of Community Engagement Wikimedia Foundation *Working towards a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge.* _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Hoi, Discourse is fine when it means that I will still receive my email and can answer in that way. Thanks, GerardM
On 15 January 2016 at 17:34, Asaf Bartov abartov@wikimedia.org wrote:
I assume many have muted or are ignoring the "thankspam" thread, but it has changed topic rather meaningfully, and I think it deserves broader attention.
A.
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Luis Villa lvilla@wikimedia.org Date: Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 8:31 AM Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Better thankspam To: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 7:58 AM, Andy Mabbett andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote:
On 15 January 2016 at 15:50, Guillaume Paumier guillaume.paumier@gmail.com wrote:
moving Wikimedia mailing lists to Discourse
What problem is this intended to solve?
Very short answer is "that mailing lists are an awful user experience for most people". Longer, but still very partial, list at
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Discourse#What_we.27d_gain_.28user_experienc...
I'll add more there at some point, but probably not today.
Luis
-- Luis Villa Sr. Director of Community Engagement Wikimedia Foundation *Working towards a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge.* _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
-- Asaf Bartov Wikimedia Foundation http://www.wikimediafoundation.org
Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality! https://donate.wikimedia.org _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 5:34 PM, Asaf Bartov abartov@wikimedia.org wrote:
I assume many have muted or are ignoring the "thankspam" thread, but it has changed topic rather meaningfully, and I think it deserves broader attention.
I see now why Discourse is a problem...
I wanted to install it, so we could test it and then move to a WMF server. I wasn't fully demotivated after I've seen it's written in Ruby (nothing against syntax, but on infrastructure side it's easier to install .NET framework on Linux). Then they say the only way they support installation is via Docker.
No, thanks.
They obviously need to mature and produce a sensible framework for software installation. Until then, good old Mailman is our most realistic solution.
I wanted to install it, so we could test it and then move to a WMF server. I wasn't fully demotivated after I've seen it's written in Ruby (nothing against syntax, but on infrastructure side it's easier to install .NET framework on Linux). Then they say the only way they support installation is via Docker.
No, thanks.
They obviously need to mature and produce a sensible framework for software installation. Until then, good old Mailman is our most realistic solution.
Why? As a user, you would just need to login and participate, Discourse is like a website. You don't need to install anything. I don't understand your point.
Aubrey
-- Milos
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On Sat, Jan 23, 2016 at 9:22 PM, Andrea Zanni zanni.andrea84@gmail.com wrote:
Why? As a user, you would just need to login and participate, Discourse is like a website. You don't need to install anything. I don't understand your point.
I am speaking as an admin, not as a user :P
In brief, software is not stable. And it's not just that, but the developers don't know their software well enough to offer a sensible installation guide. I wouldn't use such software.
Besides that, if there is no Docker environment (and I don't think so there is a Docker environment in WMF, though my information could be outdated), you have to create a double layer system just to install it according to their specification.
Said so, I am sure there are masochists around, willing to install it :P
On Sat, Jan 23, 2016 at 12:34 PM, Milos Rancic millosh@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Jan 23, 2016 at 9:22 PM, Andrea Zanni zanni.andrea84@gmail.com wrote:
Why? As a user, you would just need to login and participate, Discourse is
like
a website. You don't need to install anything. I don't understand your point.
I am speaking as an admin, not as a user :P
In brief, software is not stable. And it's not just that, but the developers don't know their software well enough to offer a sensible installation guide. I wouldn't use such software.
Besides that, if there is no Docker environment (and I don't think so there is a Docker environment in WMF, though my information could be outdated), you have to create a double layer system just to install it according to their specification.
Said so, I am sure there are masochists around, willing to install it :P
-- Milos
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
FWIW, there is a docker role in wikimedia puppet and it's already used as part of the labs infrastructure. Not sure how well tested it is yet, but it's there.
On Sat, Jan 23, 2016 at 9:37 PM, Erik Bernhardson ebernhardson@wikimedia.org wrote:
FWIW, there is a docker role in wikimedia puppet and it's already used as part of the labs infrastructure. Not sure how well tested it is yet, but it's there.
In this case I see a kind of solution: * Install Discourse container on Labs per instructions and let it handle "http(s)://discourse.wikimedia.org/" * Forward every mail intended to reach wikimedia-l to Discourse as well. * Forward every Discourse comment to wikimedia-l.
Theoretically, it could work. I mean, under the condition that Discourse is capable to read properly mail headers, as well as to send a decent emails back to wikimedia-l.
If it works, everybody who prefers to read emails in the old format will be able to do that. Those who prefer Discourse web interface would be able to do that, as well.
I don't expect discourse.wikimedia.org would be a large consumer of traffic (CPU, RAM) at the beginning.
On Sat, Jan 23, 2016 at 9:46 PM, Vituzzu vituzzu.wiki@gmail.com wrote:
Said so, I am sure there are masochists around, willing to install it :P
Me neither, but it's worth a try neither me and you will have to handle :p
That's pretty relevant point! It takes time to switch from "No!" to "Oh, I am not the admin here!".
On Sat, Jan 23, 2016 at 1:25 PM, Milos Rancic millosh@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Jan 23, 2016 at 9:37 PM, Erik Bernhardson ebernhardson@wikimedia.org wrote:
FWIW, there is a docker role in wikimedia puppet and it's already used as part of the labs infrastructure. Not sure how well tested it is yet, but it's there.
In this case I see a kind of solution:
- Install Discourse container on Labs per instructions and let it
handle "http(s)://discourse.wikimedia.org/"
- Forward every mail intended to reach wikimedia-l to Discourse as well.
- Forward every Discourse comment to wikimedia-l.
Theoretically, it could work. I mean, under the condition that Discourse is capable to read properly mail headers, as well as to send a decent emails back to wikimedia-l.
If it works, everybody who prefers to read emails in the old format will be able to do that. Those who prefer Discourse web interface would be able to do that, as well.
I don't expect discourse.wikimedia.org would be a large consumer of traffic (CPU, RAM) at the beginning.
On Sat, Jan 23, 2016 at 9:46 PM, Vituzzu vituzzu.wiki@gmail.com wrote:
Said so, I am sure there are masochists around, willing to install it :P
Me neither, but it's worth a try neither me and you will have to handle
:p
That's pretty relevant point! It takes time to switch from "No!" to "Oh, I am not the admin here!".
-- Milos
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
TBH setting up a discourse instance is the easy part. I've thrown up a temporary instance at http://discourse.wmflabs.org. I'm not sure how to go about the rest though. Anyone who is interested in figuring out the rest let me know and i can get you setup for admin mode.
Well, Discourse is new but it's growing fast: http://www.discourse.org/faq/customers/
Plus Mozilla: https://discourse.mozilla-community.org/
and OKFN: https://discuss.okfn.org/
I personally think that it could really help new people participate in our discussions, so it's worth a try.
Aubrey
On Sat, Jan 23, 2016 at 9:34 PM, Milos Rancic millosh@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Jan 23, 2016 at 9:22 PM, Andrea Zanni zanni.andrea84@gmail.com wrote:
Why? As a user, you would just need to login and participate, Discourse is
like
a website. You don't need to install anything. I don't understand your point.
I am speaking as an admin, not as a user :P
In brief, software is not stable. And it's not just that, but the developers don't know their software well enough to offer a sensible installation guide. I wouldn't use such software.
Besides that, if there is no Docker environment (and I don't think so there is a Docker environment in WMF, though my information could be outdated), you have to create a double layer system just to install it according to their specification.
Said so, I am sure there are masochists around, willing to install it :P
-- Milos
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Il 23/01/2016 21:34, Milos Rancic ha scritto:
I am speaking as an admin, not as a user :P
In brief, software is not stable. And it's not just that, but the developers don't know their software well enough to offer a sensible installation guide. I wouldn't use such software.
Let's say we can use it for open/public mailing lists. Though we're currently using a pretty outdated mailman version so we are not so safe.
Besides that, if there is no Docker environment (and I don't think so there is a Docker environment in WMF, though my information could be outdated), you have to create a double layer system just to install it according to their specification.
Afair there's
Said so, I am sure there are masochists around, willing to install it :P
Me neither, but it's worth a try neither me and you will have to handle :p
Vito
wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org