Thanks Moushira :-)
On 16 Mar 2016 16:55, "Moushira Elamrawy" <melamrawy(a)wikimedia.org>
wrote:
Hello again,
I see that we have an interesting input here.
Let me add further context, not to give any excuses but to put things in
their perspective. This has nothing do to with corporate or jargon
Silicon
Valley culture, as I simply don't live in the US, and I don't have any
corporate background :). I come from a design background, and while I am
not a native English speaker, I didn't encounter any previous
misunderstanding with using this word, in context, in the last decade,
even
with other non-native speakers.
I now see the relevance of psychology in the use of the word "ideation"
(where regardless of the article quality, we have the word used in both
context
<
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/Ideation_%…
still)
. Given my non-medical background, and my previous use of the word,
without
failing to deliver what I needed to express at any point earlier, I,
therefore, made a choice to include it in my email, which I wrote by
myself
without peer review.
I see the point around the Foundation's seemingly repeated pattern of
using
words (or abbreviation) that aren't widely understood outside their
context, or by a broader audience. While this is a valid concern, I just
wanted to point out that our case here, is a matter of me failing to
choose
a term that isn't apparently jargon, because sometimes it is tricky to
decide.
Again, this is a good lesson on the importance of simplifying and
globalizing my choice of words (oh, globalize could be jargon..no, not
again ;).
Point taken, thanks again everyone.
Moushira
On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 4:41 PM, Oliver Keyes <ironholds(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
While I agree with people that it's an uncommon and exclusionary
phrase (and a confusing one!) it seems like
Moushira fully
acknowledges this and is going to work harder on this sort of problem
in the future, for which I laud her.
If we want to have a general conversation about language choice at the
WMF, broadly-construed, it seems like it would be best to kick off a
new thread to avoid the appearance of a pileon.
On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 9:13 AM, Derek V.Giroulle
<derekvgiroulle(a)wikimedia.be> wrote:
> Hello everyone ,
>
> I agree with Fae and Craig,
> It's foreign jargon especially in this context , and on top of that
>
jargon
> form a professional background where the term has been misused (imho)
> It has in my jargon the connotation of obsessively recurring idea ,
>
like
a
> depressed patient
> always coming back to ideas of suicide : the suicidal ideation
> It would be the only place where i would allow fosuch reductive jargon
> because it has precise meaning
> i wouls never associate it with idea generation or brainstorming what
>
is
wrong with using those words
> as craig indicated : cringe worthy (business) jargon
> the mere fact that product design (business ing general) is stealing a
>
word
> form other jargon
> show a lack of creativity of innovation
>
> I would like to call on the communications dept to start - and i can
>
just
> picture someone for that task - a campaign
> at WMF to ban jargon "simply says it better"
>
>
> derek
>
>
>
> On 16-03-16 04:39, Craig Franklin wrote:
>
>> Hi Moushira,
>>
>> The problem when you use jargon like "ideation" in this context is
>>
> that
you're essentially excluding anyone who
isn't familiar with the
>>
> particular
> terminology used in the field. Especially so when there are plenty of
>> plain-English alternatives that can be used in its place. Note that
>>
> there
> is a whole bunch of thought from experts that that word in particular
>>
> is a
> particularly obnoxious piece of jargon:
>>
>> *
http://money.cnn.com/2014/10/26/pf/corporate-jargon/
>> *
https://hbr.org/2008/08/why-jargon-feeds-on-lazy-minds.html
>> *
>>
>>
>>
It's hardly the worst example I've seen
out of the WMF, but while
>>
> we're
on
> the topic it should be pointed out. Just because it's used elsewhere,
>>
> it
> doesn't mean that the WMF has to fall into the same trap.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Craig
>>
>> On 16 March 2016 at 10:07, Moushira Elamrawy <melamrawy(a)wikimedia.org
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hello Fae,
>>>
>>> Ideation phase [0], is a term widely used in product and design
>>>
>> context.
> Now, I see your point around how volunteers who are not related to
>>>
>> these
> fields, might not be familiar with it. Possibly something like, idea
>>> generation, or brainstorming could have replaced it.
>>>
>>> I am not sure though if the factors that you have listed are
>>>
>> relevant;
I
> think it is a matter of using a word in a certain context where it
>>> actually
>>> fits, without realizing how a broader audience would perceive it.
>>>
>>> In any case, thanks for the note :-)
>>>
>>> [0]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideation_%28creative_process%29
>>>
>>> Moushira
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 1:51 AM, Fæ <faewik(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 15 March 2016 at 22:33, Moushira Elamrawy <
>>>>
>>> melamrawy(a)wikimedia.org
wrote:
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>> The reading team is launching an experiment that supports early
>>>>>
>>>> engagement
>>>>
>>>>> in ideation phase, with a wide variety of users.
>>>>>
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> Hi, sorry to target your email with a more general observation,
>>>> however there seems to be a lot of odd jargon in Wikimedia
>>>> announcements over the last few months. It would be great to see
>>>>
>>> more
'official' emails aimed at volunteers,
written in plain and
>>>> grammatically complete English. Phrases like "ideation phase"
may be
>>>> frequently used during meetings at the Wikimedia Foundation offices,
>>>> but are unlikely to be heard in real life by volunteer contributors,
>>>> and are unlikely to be easily understood outside of corporate
>>>>
>>> America,
especially by those without English as their
first language.
>>>>
>>>> Sorry again about picking at your announcement rather than any
>>>>
>>> other,
it just stood out today.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Fae
>>>> --
>>>> faewik(a)gmail.com
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
>>>>
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>
> --
> Kind regards,
> *Derek V. Giroulle*
> Wikimedia Belgium vzw.
> Treasurer
> Troonstraat 51 Rue du Trône, BE-1050 Brussels
> M: derekvgiroulle(a)wikimedia.be
> T: +32 494 134134
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>
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