..and I dream of repetitive metrics that can be compared year to year
On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 5:02 PM, Fæ <faewik(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Ethically, I would rather defer a proposal, such as
one for Wiki Loves
Pride or a more general diversity event, until the restriction is lifted.
There is too much pointless political flim flam already in our Wikimedia
community without masking events as GenderGap for the sake of faking
metrics.
Fae
On 3 Jan 2015 15:50, "Jane Darnell" <jane023(a)gmail.com> wrote:
..and I am hoping to see lots of "gendergap
paint"
On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 4:42 PM, Lodewijk <lodewijk(a)effeietsanders.org>
wrote:
> I hoped that after the discussions on the wiki loves monuments mailing
> list, someone of the grant team would have proactively informed the
wider
> community in an earlier stage. I hope that
the fact they did not do
this,
> means they are reconsidering the way this
campaign is shaped.
>
> As indicated before, this 'shutdown' (or focus) of Individual
Engagement
Grants as
well as Project and Event Grants was confirmed
<
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikilovesmonuments/2014-December/0076…
by
Alex Wang. She referred in that email to this
onwiki description
<
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/Inspire_Grants_%E2%80%93_Gen…
.
I should also emphasize that Alex indicated
that they don't expect this
to
impact WLM-related grants (because they expect
teams to request funding
much
later in the process
<
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikilovesmonuments/2014-December/0076…
> >
> - not before june/july, an assumption I disagree with), and she also
> suggested the closing was not as hard as it sounds, as she's willing to
> discuss problems (she emphasized this in her email).
>
> I don't want to reiterate all discussions about whether gendergap is
the
> problem or a symptom (we have many gaps in
our community, of which the
> gender gap is the most visible and easiest to measure), but I do feel
> uncomfortable with this campaign. I have asked around a bit in the past
> week and only received negative feedback on the campaign - with people
> confirming my fear that this will likely undermine the community
support
> (or at least support by the 'organizing
community') for
gendergap-related
projects
in general - be it out of frustration, compensation or
jealousy. I
called it a 'negative campaign' in my
emails because the focus is not
about
> actively boosting one type of requests (which is the claim), but rather
> about making it harder to do something unrelated to it in the hope that
> people instead will choose for the easy way, and organize a gendergap
> related event.
>
> What I also fear, is that people will just give their request a tiny
bit
of
> 'gendergap'-paint, make up some way how they help reduce it (which is
> basically true for almost any outreach event aiming at a group with
less
than 90%
men - i.e. almost any group aside from Wikipedia or catholic
priests). I'm confident that most of our outreach projects, including
Wiki
Loves Monuments, could claim to reach relatively
more women than the
editor
population contains. But I am very unhappy if we
start distributing
grants
> on such shaky grounds - those projects often are much stronger in
general
> editor retention, which happens to be
relatively more women. The focus
of
the
projects would be unnaturally shifted in the grant request compared
to
> the actual activities.
>
> Again, I hope that the decision makers involved here will reconsider
the
way this
has been shaped, and frame it more in a positive way, focusing
on
supporting efforts in a thematic direction,
rather than discouraging
other
> thematic directions. And as I have said elsewhere: I would be similarly
> against this, with any other theme - I wouldn't be able to stand the
idea
to focus
entirely on photo-events only for three months...
Best,
Lodewijk
On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 3:59 PM, Jens Best <jens.best(a)wikimedia.de>
wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I think some clarification is needed by people who are in charge for
the
> > grantmaking process. There is a difference between "shutting down the
> > grantmaking process (PEG) and (IEG) for three full months" and
adding a
> > voluntary gendergap "theme"
to a project to get better funding
chances.
So I really would like to see some clarifications about these leaked
plans
> before having a propably heated debate about it.
>
> Needless to say that adding ideologically driven must-haves to a
general
> grantmaking process which only purpose is to
serve the voluntary work
on
> a
> > supposed-to-be-free encyclopedia would leave a disturbing impression
on
> > many people.
> >
> > best regards
> >
> > Jens Best
> >
> >
> >
> > 2015-01-03 15:46 GMT+01:00 Romaine Wiki <romaine.wiki(a)gmail.com>om>:
> >
> > > There are multiple ways in how to define the Gendergap, in this
case
it
> > is
> > > about female participation.
> > >
> > > I do think it is a problem that the number of female participants
is
> >
dramatically lower than those of male contributors, but still this
does
> > not
> > > give any good reason to exclude good projects who are not
particular
>
aiming
> > for female contributors.
> >
> > WMF wants to solve the Gendergap by excluding good other projects.
That
> is
> > a very bad situation.
> >
> > Trying to solve the Gendergap by enlarging the Community Gap.
> >
> > Bad idea.
> >
> > Romaine
> >
> >
> >
> > 2015-01-03 15:33 GMT+01:00 Jane Darnell <jane023(a)gmail.com>om>:
> >
> > > Nope. Gendergap is about the gap in female participation, not in
> > > female-related topics. The Dutch Wikipedia has a severe gap with
only
> 6%
> > > female participation. I would say this is a pretty urgent problem
for
> the
> > > Dutch and Flemish community, so I was very glad to see this as a
main
> > theme
> > > for the coming three months.
> > >
> > > On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 3:17 PM, Romaine Wiki <
romaine.wiki(a)gmail.com
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hello Jane,
> > > > >
> > > > > Sorry, but I think you miss the problem here.
> > > > >
> > > > > As I said before, I am fine with more projects that improve the
> > > coverage
> > > > of
> > > > > so-called female topics, but not if this is damaging the
projects
which
> > do
> > > not aim for such.
> > >
> > > I hope this campaign in this form is cancelled and witdrawn and
that
> > > never
> > > > ever such situation appears again. This way of working is
damaging
> > the
> > > > > trust in WMF, discouraging many volunteers, worsening projects,
> etc.
> > > > >
> > > > > Having a Gendergap campaign in this form is NOT in line with
the
> > vision
> > > > the
> > > > > Wikimedia movement has.
> > > > >
> > > > > > The current campaign is scheduled to be one of hopefully
many,
> >
targeted
> > > > at the community in order to generate themed proposals.
> > > >
> > > > If it was really targeted at the Wikimedia community, it would
not
> have
> > > > excluded other projects.
> > > >
> > > > I propose everyone to refuse to take part in this as this is a
move
in
> > the
> > > wrong direction.
> > >
> > > And how WLM to attract more female particpation? By having a
special
> > > > category for pink buildings.
> > > > Under this condition, a question as such can't be taken
seriously.
> > > >
> > > > Romaine
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 2015-01-03 14:58 GMT+01:00 Jane Darnell <jane023(a)gmail.com>om>:
> > > >
> > > > > As a member of the IEG committee I am happy to say that there
is
> no
> > > > need
> > > > > to
> > > > > > panic. WLM is highly successful project and no one is
talking
> about
> > > > > > shutting it down, or any other project for that matter.
The
> current
> > > > > > campaign is scheduled to be one of hopefully many, targeted
at
the
> > > > community in order to
generate themed proposals. The current
growth
> of
> > > > highly diverse and inspirational proposals takes increasingly
more
> > > energy
> > > > > to manage, judge, and maintain. By introducing a three-month
long
> > > > theme,
> > > > > it
> > > > > > is hoped that the following will occur:
> > > > > > 1) Grant committee members in their voluntary role as
proposal
> >
> reviewers
> > > > > and community sponsors will experience less burn-out in
managing
> > > > > proposals
> > > > > > as their will be more cross pollination per cohort of
proposers
> and
> > > > their
> > > > > > proposals.
> > > > > > 2) A targeted campaign to attract proposals will enable
easier
> > > > > translation
> > > > > > across projects if the target audience can be identified
in
> advance
> > > > > > 3) A targeted campaign will attract more volunteer
committee
> > members
> > > to
> > > > > > manage proposals, hopefully attracting local experts in
various
> >
> Wikimedia
> > > > > projects.
> > > > >
> > > > > The Gendergap will be the first theme. I think it's a great
idea!
How
> > can
> > > > WLM attract more female participation? Any ideas?
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 11:26 AM, Romaine Wiki <
> romaine.wiki(a)gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi all,
> > > > >
> > > > > Some disturbing news entered my mailbox the past days. The
grant
> > > making
> > > > > > team is going to shut down the grantmaking process for
Project
> > and
> > > > > Event
> > > > > > > Grants (PEG) and Individual Engagement Grants (IEG)
for
three
> > full
> > > > > > months!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > They have decided that they want to focus only on a
specific
> >
> strategic
> > > > > > priority: the gender gap, and that all other good projects
are
> > > > refused
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > > 3 months (February-April).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Having more attention to a strategic priority is fine
to
me.
> > Having
> > > > > more
> > > > > > > attention to the problem of the gender gap, sounds
good to
me
as
> > > such,
> > > > we
> > > > > > can use much more projects and content in those areas. But
that
>
does
> > > not
> > > > > mean that many many volunteers who are organizing other
projects
> > > should
> > > > > > become the victim of other projects.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This is a negative signal to all those volunteers who are
> currently
> > > > > working
> > > > > > on project plans to be submitted in February, March and
April.
> > Good
> > > > > > > projects to be ignored, just because the WMF think
those
are
> less
> > > > > > > important. They say this is a positive campaign, but
this
> sounds
> > > as a
> > > > > > > negative campaign to me. This discourages many
volunteers
in
>
doing
> > > > > > projects.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And even worse: this is only to be generally announced 2
weeks
> > before
> > > > > that
> > > > > > period of shutting down starts! (this sounds like a joke,
sadly
> > it
> > > > > isn't)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > To organize a good project volunteers (yes, we are
still
> unpaid!
> > > and
> > > > > > > organize these projects in our spare time!) we need
the
time
to
> > > > > > communicate
> > > > > > > well with all our partners and sponsors, and need the
time
to
> > come
> > > up
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > > a good project plan with a stable basis. Rushing a
project
in
>
just
> > a
> > > > > couple
> > > > > > of weeks time is very unpleasant and does not help in
getting a
> > good
> > > > > > quality project. And announcing it two weeks before the
period
> > > > > indicates
> > > > > > > that organizers aren't taken seriously (enough).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > For example, we are currently planning to organize
Wiki
Loves
> > > > Monuments
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > 2015 again, the world wide contest to have a better
> documentation
> > > and
> > > > > > > better display of all the cultural monuments
worldwide,
> > recognised
> > > as
> > > > > > > largest photo contest in the world by Guinness World
Records.
> We
> > > are
> > > > > > > currently working on forming a team and want to have a
good
> > stable
> > > > plan
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > be submitted within some weeks, but now we need to
rush.
And
> yes
> > we
> > > > > need
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > start in January/February or it will be too late to
organize
it
> > > > properly.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Also all the national teams of Wiki Loves Monuments, the
> > > international
> > > > > team
> > > > > > recommend all the national teams to start in
January/February,
> to
> > > > have
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > proper organisation together with various local
partners
and
> > > > sponsors,
> > > > > > but
> > > > > > > now all these teams are delayed for three months.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And a personal project of mine in Belgium, I am
planning to
> > > organize
> > > > > Wiki
> > > > > > > Loves Art in Belgium, together with various partners
and
> > sponsors.
> > > We
> > > > > > > intent to start in February, but now have to rush to
get
such
done.
> > > > >
> > > > > By the way: did you know there is a Belgium Gap? Belgian
subjects
> > are
> > > > > > relatively less and worse described on the various
Wikipedias.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This shutting down results in:
> > > > > > * Discouraging many volunteers who are planning to submit
good
> > > project
> > > > > > proposals.
> > > > > > * Having volunteers rushed with project plans, which lowers
the
> > > > quality
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > the plans.
> > > > > > > * Having volunteers being late and delayed with
projects,
for
no
> > good
> > > > > > reason.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Grantmaking is intented to support the communities, not
> frustrating
> > > > them.
> > > > > > WMF: stop this negative campaign!
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And for all project teams who want to organize a gender
gap
> > project:
> > > > > great
> > > > > > you organize this, it is very very welcome! But I like to
make
> a
> > > > > > > suggestion: submit the proposal on the first day after
the
> > shutting
> > > > > down
> > > > > > > period to give a strong signal to WMF that shutting
down
is a
bad
> > > idea.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It is time for a new strategic priority: closing the
Community
> Gap.
> > > > That
> > > > > is
> > > > > > the gap between WMF and the local communities worldwide. It
is
> > not
> > > > new,
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > exists for many years already. (It resulted also in
the
drama
> of
> > > the
> > > > > > > situation around the Mediaviewer in 2014, the drama
with
the
>
Visual
> > > > > Editor
> > > > > > in 2013, etc. in what WMF didn't sense well the
community.)
> (Maybe
> > > the
> > > > > gap
> > > > > > is less between WMF and the English speaking part of the
world,
> > but
> > > > the
> > > > > > > world is larger. We have many people around the world
who
are
> >
speak a
> > > > > > different language. WMF is not sensing the worldwide
community
> > well
> > > > > > > enough.)
> > > > > > > Finally we should do more about this Community Gap.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > For those celebrating: I wish you a happy new year
with
great
> > > > projects
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > make every single human being freely share in the sum
of
all
human
> > > > > knowledge!!
> > > > >
> > > > > Romaine
> > > > > _______________________________________________
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